chlop

August 6, 2009 9:03 pm Try using HTML tage. P /P and /BR tags, or try a different browser. Maybe that'll do the trick. You can still edit the review.

August 6, 2009 7:38 pm

"All the instances you cite are exactly what I was saying is NOT pirating" that's kind of the point... You wanted examples of businesses the give things away. So there...

If you don't steal an original copy, and instead opt for a knock off - get as many pants as you like. There's a phrase here in Israel: "It's all made by the same chinese".

Breaking the law can be beneficial to the different industries. The problem is when does it ceases to be beneficial. You made some interesting points - I'll think about them. It was a nice discussion.

August 6, 2009 1:05 pm

Deadpool Merc With A Mouth #2

Amazing Spider-Man #601

 

August 6, 2009 12:40 pm I don't know. Lugging around buckets of debris for several days is pretty tiring work.

August 6, 2009 12:02 pm

*quire choir

*fighting agains - fighting against 

August 6, 2009 11:58 am

"How many businesses do you see following the 'give some away' plan?  Few to none, because it does not make them $." I gave examples of businesses. Also the video games industry. They make money doing that, but some businesses can't give away their products because they cost too much to make, or are operating out of a physical store, which costs money to operate. Those type of busuinesses use sales or raffles instead of giving things away.

"Every business is the business for returns, otherwise it is charity not business." but what type of return? A lot of businesses - especiallythe comicbook industry, need exposure. People are hoping for money, but it's not the goal. Putting your stuff out there and getting exposure is the goal. Being able to do it regularly or as a job would be nice. It's the same with bands, film makers, etc.

Part of that exposure is gained by piracy. As I said -I would love if people payed straight away for the comics they read, but being in a world where creators are a dime a dozen, with a lot of mediocre to bad products, and where the clients are usually a struggling middle class family, you have to use that exposure, rather thanfight it, or preach to the "bad guys".

You need to give some stuff away - tracks, issues. I'm not rushing to hear the band "Wonky Melon", but if they released several tracks I might listen to them and like them. It's an investment in the future, and you have to be an optimist. Yo uahve to rely on your audience to buy the issues if they liked the pirated version. To buy acessories like shirts etc. You can talk to your audience and ask them to help you out - in an honest, not condeming way. Show them you struggle and that if issues aren't sold that the next one will take a while to arrive. Show them art from the coming issue to keep them interested etc. 

You have to trust the audience. Ask them for help in advertising the comics to help you out etc.  Asking for a quick return is not something I think is wise to ask for. I prefer zealous pirates that create buzz about my creations, than five "decent" people that bought my comic and forgot about it. If you want money, get a job. That's life. If you want to do something you love to do, don't expect people to throw money at you.

I can't condemn pirates for stealing because I don't know if they'll buy the issue they stole in the future. Also with the current distribution systems, even knowing about a comic's existence and getting a copy of it are hard things to do. Creators can either whine and preach to the quire, and I'll probably stay away from them, or deal with it. The harsh truth is that most creators are mediocre at best. They're not the next great thing, and are competing with other media. And to be honest, people don't owe them a thing. They either have to deal with pirates in a smart way, or go in front of that wave and try to stop it.

"Kirkman tried/is trying with Invincible.  If one of the most well known independent creators has not found a way to make it work, how will an unknown??" That seems like faulty logic.You need to make it appealing. Smaller creators cut costs and publish digitally and use the instant distribution in placs like drivethrcomics. Having a somewhat famous comic in a small community isn't a recipe for success. You're fighting agains other comics and other media for attention. It won't come easy.

August 5, 2009 10:15 pm

@MisterJ - again with the absolutes. Businesses don't do it because they want money, they have other people to pay that want money quickly as well. Comicbook creators preview first issues, lower prices, preview art, there's FCBD. Music owners and creators  play music on the radio and TV to generate sales, and put music for free in youtube and places like myspace, to generate sales. Movie creators - mainly short movies, upload their movie to youtube or internet archive, because they want the exposure.

People want to see instant return usually. They don't like waiting.

As for taking away money - they're stealing a copy of it and are not taking money from the creator. They're not stealing a physical copy that cost money to produce. Creators are a dime a dozen. It would be great if people paid for things, or if people used free legal means of getting entertainment, but this is life and you need to adjust.

If I published a comics in 50 copies and sold only 5, and none pirated it, what's the point of it? By making a digital copy of it you are free to have wider exposure. The problem is doing it yourself and beating people to the punch - either by making it free or cheap digitally (although some people can't due to limited resources). Comicbooks have a limited audience that is spread all across the globe. This isn't the business for returns. You have to chance it.

August 5, 2009 7:08 pm Nice episode.

August 5, 2009 6:23 pm

*making the downloaded = making the downloader

*create a wider = create a wider exposure

August 5, 2009 6:16 pm

Music is cheap nowadays, and is bought more often. Piracy will always exist. When video games are sold at almost a quarter of a minimum wage here in Israel, and games are expensive even after several years from when they were released, people are more likely to pirate them. When people have the ability to purchase it for cheap and have it in a nice format they can take anywhere, rather than a digital they're not used to reading, they might purchase it.

People might decide to buy the collected edition and read the issues digitally until it comes out. Money exchanges hands. The question is whether the amount of money an artist gets is lower or higher because of the exposure he/she got from pirated copies. Someone might download a pirated copy of an indy work, like it and will pay more attention toe the creator, the creator might struggle so the series might get delayed making the downloaded purchase the creator's work and other stuff to keep him afloat, telling his friends etc. When things are pirated it doesn't mean that money doesn't exchange hands.

The question that's still pending is if pirating hurts creators or helps them or doesn't change a thing. I didn't see a satisfactory answer to that question, to this day.

Someone who pirated a copy of an issue might like the art, order a sketch, buy a physical copy for the writer to sign, buy a collected edition, buy a digital edition, buy accesories, generate hype and advertise it, create a wider to it etc. It isn't as cut and dry.