Comic Books

> > 7-of-7
FINAL CRISIS #7 (OF 7)


Price: $3.99
iFanboy Community Pick of the Week Percentage: 12.3%
768
Pulls
Avg Rating: 3.2
 
Users who pulled this comic:
 

Comments

  1. Avatar photo jmstump says:
    January 26, 2009 at 5:44 pm

    hmm…

  2. flapjaxx says:
    January 26, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    More pages in this. 48 total instead of the usual 40.

  3. Avatar photo Ntpmcrtp says:
    January 26, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    Awwwwwwwwwwwwyea! I’m so stoked for this. More Mahnke please!

  4. Avatar photo Kory says:
    January 26, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    I love that cover.

  5. Avatar photo rayclark says:
    January 26, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    awesome cover. hoping this issue is good!!

  6. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 26, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    Here we go again! 🙂

  7. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 26, 2009 at 7:01 pm

    Yay more aruging!!!

    To think I was worrying we couldnt argue about Grant Morrison for a day. 🙂

  8. Avatar photo OttoBott says:
    January 26, 2009 at 7:35 pm

    I am pleased that this is finishing. I am doubly-pleased that they moved #7’s shipping date up. With #6 still fresh in my mind, it’ll add to the enjoyment.

    Unless it doesn’t suck.

    *crosses fingers*

  9. Avatar photo miyamotofreak says:
    January 26, 2009 at 8:13 pm

    48 pages. Nice.

  10. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 26, 2009 at 8:20 pm

    Its not arguing…its just witty tomfoolery!

  11. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 26, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    @Drakw: WRONG! It’s arguing!

    8P

  12. Avatar photo Andrew says:
    January 26, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    Hot digitty dang!

  13. Avatar photo cyberauron says:
    January 26, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    odds on whose going to take out darkseid
    superman 1:1
    flashes: 5:1
    Flashes and black racer 2:1
    SDonny Sumeo 10:1
    Batman 999999999999999:1

  14. Avatar photo Spoons says:
    January 26, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    I am really rooting for Morrison to pull this one out but my confidence in a fulfilling conclusion has been shaken.

  15. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 26, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    @cyberauron-I think you should just include "flashes and the black racer" and remove "flashes"  That being said, my money is on flashes and the black racer.

  16. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 26, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    Is Mahnke doing the whole book? If so — AWESOME.

  17. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 26, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    last issue got 14 reviews and 150 comments.

  18. Avatar photo Chris Rohling says:
    January 26, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    Hmm.  I’m hoping that this one raps this story up nicely.  I’m gonna need to read it all in one shot. Interested to see if Morrison brings in the stuff from the tie-ins like the OMAC army.  What ever happened with the Legion stuff. I was getting really excited to see some more Superboy Prime action… then that book just sorta stopped coming out.  Any idea what’s up with that?

  19. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 26, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    There is a preview on the ‘rama -> http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=25514

    After reading those pages my gut says this will the most polarizing issue yet. I think the chasm between fans will grow even deeper.

  20. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 26, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    Sorry, wrong link. This is the correct preview -> http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=25503

  21. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 26, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    @JJ: Without going into spoilers…..

    Is G-Mo making Barack Obama, Superman?

  22. Avatar photo rift1128 says:
    January 26, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    Mahnke’s art the last issue saved it from some pretty terrible work by Jones. THis preview looks really good though and i cant wait.

  23. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 26, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    @TNC: Wrong guy to ask. I don’t what in hades is going on in this comic.

  24. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 27, 2009 at 12:29 am

    Mulitverse supermen of course!!  And since DC doesn’t like to include current prez in their comics, this is as closet we get to a presidental marketing ploy from DC.  Would have loved to see Aqua Barack though

  25. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 27, 2009 at 12:37 am

    Anyone know if we should read FC #7 before or after Revelations #5?

  26. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 27, 2009 at 1:23 am

    @Wade: From my experiences, you should probably read the tie-in first before the main book. Cause over the last couple of weeks a one-shot or mini that is tied in to FC is revelent for the main title. So like Batman #682-683 is important before FC #6; or FC: Submit you need to read before FC #4. Hopefully this isnt a tie-in where it ruins the event for you (if it is, my bad) but I still think you should read Revelations before FC.

    @JJ: If it’s a universe where Obama is Superman…..does that mean Dick Cheany is Lex Luthor? 🙂

  27. edward says:
    January 27, 2009 at 1:26 am

    Is this a good jumping on point??

  28. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 27, 2009 at 1:43 am

    @Edward: Best comment ever!

  29. Avatar photo tigermojoe says:
    January 27, 2009 at 1:46 am

    @Edward: Brilliant

  30. Avatar photo WinTheWonderboy says:
    January 27, 2009 at 2:54 am

    That J.G. Jones sure knows how to draw a cover.

  31. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 27, 2009 at 5:31 am

    @edward – If you jump on now, you probably wont be any more lost than me, who has read all the issues. That’s kinda the style of the writing here, to feel at least partly confused, which I find very fucking annoying.

    *stokes the fire* 

  32. Avatar photo Simmons says:
    January 27, 2009 at 8:35 am

    I know its a comic book, and the good guys are supposed to win and they usually do, but Morrison has done such a good job of writing this it really feels like the Bad Guys have won and there isn’t much anyone can do.

    I can’t wait to read this!!!!

  33. Avatar photo Kory says:
    January 27, 2009 at 8:56 am

    Slow claps for edward.  Good work on that one.

     

  34. Avatar photo DemonBoy says:
    January 27, 2009 at 10:00 am

    I can’t wait to read it, then go back and re-read the whole run.  This story has been awesome, I love a book that makes you work for the story.

  35. Avatar photo Viktorr says:
    January 27, 2009 at 11:43 am

    @cyberauron:  put me down for 20 clams on the mother fucking batman.

  36. Avatar photo coleman says:
    January 27, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    Awesome that it’s 48 pages without a price increase. Makes me happy.

  37. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 27, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    Mmmm…..37 posts and no arguing yet….

    I know! How about ‘Go read Hulk if you dont like this!’…..no already done that…..or: ‘If you dont understand this then go read some generic comics!’…..damnit again already been done…….I’m starting to run out of things to argue about with this. 🙁

  38. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 27, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    @TNC-I think everyone got their frustrations out in Conor’s article last week.  Damn him for ruining this weeks fight!!

  39. Avatar photo OttoBott says:
    January 27, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    lulz, edward. lulz.

  40. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 27, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    @drake: I wanna yell but now I cant!?

    What type of fascist site is this!!!???? 🙂

  41. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 27, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    Keep your pants on. The real shit’s gonna hit the fan when the issue actually comes out and we all read it.

  42. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 27, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    *shakes clock violently*

    God damn you…….Why cant you say it’s Wednesday 10:00am yet!!???

  43. Avatar photo OttoBott says:
    January 27, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    I’m gonna keep my pants off, if you guys don’t mind.

  44. edward says:
    January 27, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    Thanks everybody… i saw an opening and went for it.

  45. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 27, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    That’s what she said.

  46. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 27, 2009 at 6:55 pm

    She did? Was she wearing a strap-on?

  47. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 27, 2009 at 7:33 pm

    You guys are horrible

  48. edward says:
    January 27, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    fist

  49. Avatar photo robbydzwonar says:
    January 27, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    They should make a Readers Digest version of Final Crisis.  You know? Like Final Crisis for Dummies or something.  I couldn’t even understand what it was talking about when I looked it up on Wikipedia.

    Maybe one of you guys who understands this story so well should write a review that like narrarates a little…?

  50. Avatar photo rwpos says:
    January 28, 2009 at 8:33 am

    A blizzard has hit the American mid-west!  Roads are impassible!  Comic shops may be closed!  On the same day that FC#7 comes out?!?!?  A coincidence, or could this be the REAL final crisis of man???

  51. Avatar photo marvelzombie says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:15 am

    Please have it all make sense…please have it all make sense…

  52. Avatar photo stuclach says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:55 am

    @robbydzwonar (and anyone else who would like a bit of clarification on the FC storyline) – The reviews of the last three issues written by Templar and reviews by a number of other members of this site are very, very helpful.  Templar specifically (and many other generally) does a fine job of explaining what is happening in a more coherent fashion than I possibly could. 

    I don’t claim to completely understand everything GMo has done in FC and I also understand that not liking this doesn’t mean you are slow-witted.  But, regardless of which camp you are in, I believe the reviews on this site will make FC more enjoyable for you.


  53. Avatar photo queenrikki says:
    January 28, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    I found that I sort of lost interest in this "event".  Here’s hoping that the finale is absolutely amazing otherwise I think this will have to go in my negative Grant Morrison Column (i.e. X-Men run) rather than the postive (i.e. JLA).

  54. Avatar photo Alexferrer says:
    January 28, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    Oh, God…

    I was one of the fans of the event. I really was enjoying it.

    But… This was not very good. 🙁

  55. JackBurton34 says:
    January 28, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    I’m not really up with DC continunity, but I thought that issue was completely indecipherable. I couldnt follow, even though it was told in semi-flashback. Must of been 1,000 characters in it, Sumperman memorizes the God machine in the seconds he sees it. Man this was not a very new reader friendly book.

  56. doomwad says:
    January 28, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    I can’t judge this because I don’t understand it.  It made no sense to me.

  57. Avatar photo mulletpeep says:
    January 28, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    i thought it was fine, if somewhat dull. it wasn’t quite the mindfuck i was hoping for and it totally seemed rushed. That’s been my only problem with the mini to begin with. Like Morrison is trying to jam 20 issues of material into seven. Even for Morrison this seems incredibly crammed with information and story points and comes off like a cliff notes version of a Morrison story

    Honestly, I really wish that this had been more of an event like Seven Soldiers. It had enough time to really let things be a little looser and not constantly be rushing back and forth with him trying to get every major story beat into his story at the expense of everything else simply because he didn’t have enough room fit it all in and to somehow make the whole thing entertaining. Or at least a 12 issue maxi or something. 

    Don’t get me wrong i still think that morrison did a great job with the limited amount of space he had to tell this story in. I still totally LOVE all the concepts in here. i really enjoyed how morrison was dropping in on different areas of the DCU totally frenzied like a fucking WAR was happening. I just needed a lot more than what was given. It’s the same problem i had with Infinite Crisis.

    So i hate to say it but i was dissapointed.

  58. Avatar photo kwisdumb says:
    January 28, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    I think I understood this more than most Final Crisis issues, which is surprising as I only read #01, #02, #06, and now this.

    I didn’t complete get it, though, so I ask you, the iFanbase, these questions:

     

    *SPOILERS*

    *SPOILERS*

    *SPOILERS*

     – So…everything is okay now?

    – Who was that guy at the very end? Not the caveman.

    *SPOILERS*

    *SPOILERS*

    *SPOILERS*

     Thanks in advance!

  59. miraclelad says:
    January 28, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    Me not understand anything

    Me think me too dumb to understand

    But army of supermen …. COOL

     

    and

    *SPOILERS* 

    *SPOILERS* 

    *SPOILERS* 

    *SPOILERS* 

    Me knew Bats not dead

    *SPOILERS* 

    *SPOILERS* 

    *SPOILERS* 

    *SPOILERS* 

     

     

  60. Avatar photo supertrackmonkey says:
    January 28, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    Wow this series was hard to grasp…. I still don’t really get it. But I do know that that was Bruce Wayne at the end, but where was he? (Yes, in a cave. But what plant, realm, dimension, time?)

  61. Avatar photo Alexferrer says:
    January 28, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    @supertrackmonkey, Since that caveman was Anthro, the first boy, that probably means he´s in the distant past, shown in the first issue.

  62. Avatar photo FluffNFluff says:
    January 28, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    WHAT THE FUCK JUST HAPPENED?

  63. Avatar photo OttoBott says:
    January 28, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    So far, this is the lowest rated issue in the series. Ouch.

  64. Avatar photo roadcrew1 says:
    January 28, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    @Otto…..It wouldn’t shock me too much, as the last issue is the one where everything is supposed to come together.  I haven’t read this yet, but if it doesn’t then it could be considered a disappointment by some.

  65. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 28, 2009 at 4:27 pm

    Wow…uhh, yeah.

    It felt quite rushed, and a ton of stuff packed into it.  More so than the other issues, if that is at all possible.  I gave it a 4.  It wasn’t meh, but it didn’t blow me a way at all.  Agree with mulletpeep that I was disappointed in a way.

    Did have some great scenes though.  And it was a fun Morrison romp, IMO.  I’m just not exactly sure what it means for the DC Universe.  I don’t know what, if any, reprecussions there are. (aside from what happened to Bats and a few other characters)

    @cyberauron-I called it!  Flashes and the black racer!  Pay up sucka!

  66. Avatar photo mulletpeep says:
    January 28, 2009 at 4:27 pm

    @roadcrew1 Yeah, i’m a huge Morrison fan and this is one of the few times i’ve been dissapointed by a Morrison closer. Seriously this PAILS next to the final issues of the Invisibles, Doom Patrol, The Filth or even Batman R.I.P. I know that i’ve already said it a couple of times in this thread, but he needed more than seven issues to tell this story.

  67. Avatar photo kwisdumb says:
    January 28, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    Ah, I am dumb. I just realized who that was at the end.

  68. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 28, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    What are the implications of the monitors no longer interferring with the multiverse?  Perhaps those are the answers we will get in the fallout issues of this series

  69. Avatar photo FACE says:
    January 28, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    i haven’t finished this yet because i’m dumb-founded by the inclusion of Captain Carrot and the Zoo Crew. i just had to say something before i moved along. just, wow.

  70. Avatar photo mulletpeep says:
    January 28, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    wow. i just reread it on my lunch and i take back everything i said.

    uh-maze-ing. i missed a ton on my first read. i rushed that shit. bad idea.

  71. andy says:
    January 28, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    my favorite color is mcRib

  72. Avatar photo Chris Rohling says:
    January 28, 2009 at 5:27 pm

    so… aren’t the crises supposed to shake up the multiverse?  I understand that The Monitors aren’t going to interfere anymore, but can someone more versed in DC fill me in on what that might mean?  I liked this issue, just seemed to throw together a conclusion rather quickly.  I’m gonna need to read all seven in one shot. 

    Is it odd that I enjoyed the Monitor scenes the most out of the whole book, even though that is the area of DC that I have the least knowledge about?

  73. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 28, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    After reading this issue I know understand how the majority is absolutely right

    *waves anti-morrison banners*

  74. doomwad says:
    January 28, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    Could someone help me explain the current status quo of the DC multiverse?  Ok, so there still are 52 universes, but the monitors are just not monitoring anymore… is that right? 

  75. Avatar photo PraxJarvin says:
    January 28, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    Fantastic. This was a nice little play with time. We’ve been seeing effects with out causation all series long. We were given a reason for the odd pacing and seemingly random, out of sequence paneling. (Supergirl’s line "I don’t think I’ve ever felt anything so stange… Like it’s all broken up from one minute to the next.") We see that the adage of "Given enough time to prepare, Batman can defeat god" is used here. (Batman learns the resistance symbol from Anthro before he dies, and somehow brings it to the future. He literally has 10000 years to prepare with all the info from the Rocketship)

    I liked it. I really think this could have easily been 12 issues and felt more complete, but alas. 

     

  76. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 28, 2009 at 6:00 pm

    Dang, I was hoping the multiverse would be done with.

  77. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 28, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    damn it, where the hell is the arguing!  Somone start it!

  78. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 28, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    it’ll happen, don’t worry.

  79. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 28, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    Again as a Morrison apologist….I really didnt like this issue.

    I dont know what happen, I think Superman Beyond was a huge factor but I didnt read it…..and yeah I was just confused. I did like the end with Batman and hopefully that is going to lead to something. But right now I need to rest my head.

  80. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 28, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    @TNC-Yeah, the vampire dude and the multiple Sups were from Beyond.  I was afraid they would show up in this and that sort of hurt the issue for me.  It really made it so people would be failry lost if they had not picked up the tie-in

  81. Avatar photo Chris Rohling says:
    January 28, 2009 at 6:17 pm

    Can anyone explain what the monitors not monitoring actually changes?  The monitors are the part of the DCU that I’m the least informed on.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!

  82. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 28, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    I’m sure if I read this issue 10 times or read the entire series straight threw I’ll get this and maybe love it.

    But after a one read of this issue I totally felt like I got gipped. But then again it made me wanting more so Morrison got me there.

  83. Avatar photo matthaber says:
    January 28, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    FREAKING LOVED THIS ISSUE. Im about to re-read the intire series in one sitting, and i will probally love it even more.

  84. flapjaxx says:
    January 28, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    I was constantly a bit underwhelmed, then the last five or so pages were pretty satisfying in themselves. The more I look back through it, the more things I notice and the more I’m impressed, as is usually the case with recent Morrison comics. This definitely isn’t a 5-star comic, though–make that the headline if I was printing a newspaper review. The vampire Monitor felt totally tacked on. I didn’t see the reason for him to come back. He was fine as is, dealing with him in Superman Beyond. It felt like Morrison just threw him in here so this story would seem more cosmic or whatever.

    I really don’t see why this needed to be a "CRISIS EVENT!!!!!", though. I wish this could have just been an 8-issue (this felt rushed) mini-series, with issues coming out whenever J.G. Jones was able to get ’em done. As it was, it seems totally underwhelming when evaluated as a "Crisis". Not that I *particularly* care about that–I care about ideas and story more–but it’s definitely a very valid way to criticize this series: this didn’t live up to the hype. And while usually I just dismiss hype, never buy into it, I can’t help but feeling a little let down. Tons of interesting ideas to figure out? Yeah. Exciting, kind of innovative? Yeah. But I don’t think it even lived up to the WITHIN-STORY hype. Issues 2, 3 and 4 (particularly 3) were great because they made the reader feel like an immense conspiracy of evil was going on. Darkseid’s conspiracy got short-changed and disposed of too quickly and predictably, imo, and the villain behind the villain felt tacked on and out of place. 

    Bruce crash-landing in a one-man rocket into the past and drawing the Bat-symbol on cave walls, though, is great.

  85. edward says:
    January 28, 2009 at 7:10 pm

    if you were a Morrison apologist wouldn’t you like the book?

     

    An apologist is pro something 

     

    will that start a fight?  

  86. Fractal514 says:
    January 28, 2009 at 7:26 pm

    The only fight going on here is between people who bought it, didn’t like it, and themselves.  Those who like it and those who don’t have nothing new to fight about here.  The only people who should be upset are those who said it would all come together and make sense.  It didn’t.  You could make sense out of it, but it, in and of itself, did not make sense, and so those who bought it and are mad are fighting inside their own minds. 🙂

  87. Avatar photo akamuu says:
    January 28, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    The part where Aquaman got stung to death by metaalic bees made me really sad.

  88. Avatar photo Spoons says:
    January 28, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    Overall, this ending was meh for me.  There were just to many plot threads that I thought could have been much more developed.  Hopefully this will make more sense when I read it all together, but as of now the meh stands.

    Also, this issue had the same problem that Secret Invasion #8 had for me.  Someone narrating from the future.  It felt clunky to me and it was not the type of mistake I expected from Morrison.

  89. Avatar photo Spoons says:
    January 28, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    @Flapjaxx-Just read your post and I couldn’t agree with you more.

  90. phizeta564 says:
    January 28, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    Finally. Somethign that makes the CLone Saga look like it deserves an EIsner. No wonder DC rarely has a bok in the top ten and sometimes the top twenty.This was a horrible, mangled pile of crap. I still don’t understand even when reading the summaries. Morrison is the most overrated writer in comics. My infant son makes more sense than he. Glad I dropped it after the 2nd issue.

  91. Avatar photo brianmaru says:
    January 28, 2009 at 7:53 pm

    I enjoyed this a lot but didn’t love it. Overall though, had a blast with the series. Had some great Darkseid moments, lot of striking memorable images, cool last panel and much more. 

     

    Do I feel like more things could have been explored, sure. Do I care how it shakes up the status quo or why it’s a "Crisis"? Couldn’t care less.

      

  92. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 28, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    @phizeta564-yay!  Thanks for starting it! 🙂

  93. Avatar photo PraxJarvin says:
    January 28, 2009 at 8:02 pm

    @flapjaxx, Just to clarify for you. Bruce didn’t crash land in the rocket. The rocket was the one launched earlier in the issue containing the "last copy of the Daily Planet" which details the events of Final Crisis, a Bat signal and Superman’s cape. Lois says of it "I hope someone, somewhere finds it." We’re lead to Believe an elder Anthro understood enough of the materials to draw the two letters from the New God alphabet we see. And it would seem it is Bruce’s job to keep that "weapon of the gods" safe until the Final Crisis some thousands of years in the future.

    Bruce was sent to the past via the Omega Sanction in the previous issue (If you’ve ever seen Doctor Who, it is similar to how the Weeping Angels kill people in "Blink)

  94. Indycwf says:
    January 28, 2009 at 8:18 pm

    Just finished in this order

    Final Crisis 1 and 2, Requiem, Final Crisis 3, Superman Beyond 1 and 2, Submit, Final Crisis 4 and 5, Batman 682 and 683, Final Crisis 6 and 7. Outstanding- I’ve grown tired of all the debate. Let’s move on. 

  95. Avatar photo brianmaru says:
    January 28, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    It’s simply not for everybody. 

  96. Avatar photo rwpos says:
    January 28, 2009 at 8:29 pm

     @mulletpeep: "Yeah, i’m a huge Morrison fan and this is one of the few times i’ve been dissapointed by a Morrison closer. Seriously this PAILS next to the final issues of the Invisibles, Doom Patrol, The Filth or even Batman R.I.P. I know that i’ve already said it a couple of times in this thread, but he needed more than seven issues to tell this story."

    Morrison knew how many issues and pages he had to tell his story within, so in my opinion what he needed wasn’t more issues, but rather to write a story that could be reasonably told in the space alloted, and to structure the narrative in a way that it would fit.  He wasted many pages on random moments while neglectng key plot points and throwing in random, interesting yet unnecessary items every issue.  He owns this final story and any flaws it may have are his.

  97. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 28, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    @Prax: Good job explaining some of the plot.  I mean the Batman stuff didnt confuse me; it’s just since I didnt read Superman Beyond….I didnt understand what the hell Superman was doing or what this Mandraak guy was.

    Maybe if I pick that mini up I’ll get this more. But overall I didnt like this issue because it was a mindfuck. However, and I dont want to turn this into a Marvel vs DC arguement……This event was so much better by miles to Secret Invasion it isnt even close. At least we didnt get the generic ending like what Bendis gave us for SI. You gotta give Morrison some credit, he gave an original story here and for the most part it started conversations and a lot of people came out of this talking about the event.

    While Marvel just went from SI to Dark Reign without much dramatic storytelling. But that’s just my opinion.

  98. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 28, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    Once again rw, cuts right to the core.

  99. Avatar photo FACE says:
    January 28, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    if you enjoyed this you’re an Enlightened fan of progressive storytelling!

    ..suck it

  100. Avatar photo insight says:
    January 28, 2009 at 9:05 pm

    Grant: "Apart from one scene at the end, which I included at DC’s request, and contrary to online rumours, there were no rewrites on Final Crisis."

    anyone know what scene he is talking about?

  101. Fractal514 says:
    January 28, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    Hey Lindy…

     If you were joking, haha, good one, I see what you did there…

     

    If you weren’t joking,  what the hell gives you the right to just decide for everyone? Did I miss that point in Final Crisis when Grant M. says Lindy will make the decision, you all just abide by it?  I’m asking honestly cause I read the book twice and wouldn’t be suprised if it was in there.

  102. Avatar photo rwpos says:
    January 28, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    @insight – I assume it was the scene that took place in issue #7 between pages 1 and 48 "at the end" of Final Crisis.  The way Morrison approached the narrative with such utter disdain and disregard for the reader I assume that he felt he had done enough with issues 1-6 and that the story in those comics would stand as written on its own merits.  DC editorial thought readers might like to at least see some of the confusing threads snipped off, so they insisted he add a few more pages of random ideas that they would then sell as issue #7.  Thus the added "scene."

    At least that’s MY assumption.

  103. Avatar photo brianmaru says:
    January 28, 2009 at 9:14 pm

    Great piece on this issue and series over at CBR. Very fair I think, pointing out the pluses and minuses of the series.

     

    http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=19743

  104. Avatar photo Chris Rohling says:
    January 28, 2009 at 9:19 pm

    @Fractal.

    Didn’t he just put the order he read them in, not the one he says it needs to be?  It seems like a fairly logical order, anyway. What decision are you angry at him for making? Just confused, lookin’ for some clarification.

  105. Avatar photo rwpos says:
    January 28, 2009 at 9:20 pm

    And did anyone else actually laugh out loud when Supergirl is having story time with the children and she says "Superman alone against the Wolrld’s greatest supervillains!  How do you think he got out of that?" and Wonder Woman just steps on her story and tells the kids that after the story it’s bed time.  Then Supes never even really tells the kids what happened!  I’m laughing right now just remembering it!

    That’s what Morrison was striving for, right?

  106. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 28, 2009 at 9:20 pm

    This was a perfect ending for this series — it was borderline nonsense.

    When Captain Carrot showed up, I just thought "Perfect" & had to laugh. My mistake with the earlier issues was trying to make sense of this gibberish in the first place. I wouldn’t even call this series a "story", it was more like a bunch of random ideas, concepts & things happening in no particular order. It was garbage.

    And I’m not the type of person to say "I told you so" , so, I’ll just say to Champ … I told you so.

    Shit, I am that type of person after all. 

  107. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 28, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    @Wade: You didnt have to rub it in like that….*sniffs*

  108. Avatar photo rwpos says:
    January 28, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    @WadeWilson: "This was a perfect ending for this series — it was borderline nonsense."

    I disagree.  There was nothing "borderline" about this ending.  Otherwise I think you’re spot on.

  109. Avatar photo rwpos says:
    January 28, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    It was clever the way Morrison wove an e-mail to himself from Dan Didio directly into the dialogue:  "…Our story has become toxic… out of control… we must end it…"  Now that’s good writing!

  110. Avatar photo Chris Rohling says:
    January 28, 2009 at 9:38 pm

    At least people are having some fun with the squabbling this time around. I sense good times ahead for the iFanbase.

  111. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 28, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    @TNC: That’s what she said.

    In other news, things are brewing again here and in the reviews. I don’t know if this story will be remembered as classic but the response will be. It’s the DC equivalent to Marvel’s OMD/BND.

  112. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 28, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    When I was reading this, & it was so nonsensical that I was laughing at it, it felt to me like this whole series was like a practical joke by DC & all the people defending it have been in on the joke …

    Am I right? 

  113. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 28, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    Oh man, the low blows here are cracking me up!

  114. Fractal514 says:
    January 28, 2009 at 10:23 pm

    @Anson

    I took it as him saying, "it’s outstanding, no need to keep discussing it"

  115. StPaulDoug says:
    January 28, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    Here’s my bottom line: Grant Morrison is a talentless hack, and we’ve been duped again. Sure he hits a homer every once in a great while, BUT SO DID DAVE KINGMAN! I’ve been reading comics for 40 years, and I know what "good storytelling" is. Final Crisis was not good storytelling. I stuck with this thing for the duration, including buying the Superman 3-D issues. All junk. Morrison laid an egg, pure and simple. He’s a hack.

  116. edward says:
    January 28, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    @ wadewilson. how did you read this already? i thought you live in melbourne. do you have a sweet early comic hook up?

  117. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 28, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    Alright now I’m going to do the most complicated thing that I have ever done. I’m going to explain what exactely happenend here. Now I still dont understand everything, I’ll use the word ‘somehow’ to show that….But after reading it a couple more times…I think I got the gist of it.

    The beginning shows an Earth where all the superheroes are black. The crew, from which I assume is from Superman Beyond, goes to recruit the black Superman to help end the Crisis. The remaining Daily Planet survivors make a tribute to Batman and gives a hopeful article on how they won. Dr. Sivana and Lex Luthor comes in and stops the Metal Man Superman from destroying the Watchtower. Superman confronts Darkseid and relies if he kills Darkseid, he kills Dan Turpin. The Flashes come in suddenly and confronts Darkseid.

    Darkseid uses his Omega Sanctions to get at the Flashes, but they outrace the beams and run into Darkseid. The beams hit Darkseid and the Black Racer comes to him to tell us, the reader, that the soul of Darkseid has died within Turpin. So Turpin is still alive, but still looking gangrene and has the helmet on. Afterwards; Superman, Luthor, Sivana, and others start to make their last plan to get at the real villain. The Supermen awaits for Nix’s orders while Wonder Woman is saved by Frankenstein….somehow. Wonder Woman uses her lasso…somehow….to save the remaining survivors of the planet.

    They shrink the remaining survivors and store them to make sure they dont get killed. Superman finishes the final touches with the Miracle Machine and the soul of Darkseid confronts him. Superman….somehow gets rid of the soul of Darkseid and tries to use Element X to use the machine. Mandrakk, which I assume is the villain from Superman Beyond, confronts Superman and tells him he fails. Superman then uses the Miracle Machine to gather all of the Supermen and then Nix Uotan reveals himself and gets the remaining Supermen (the animals) to come together. We then learn all of the Supermen come together; because they are solar superheroes, they rely on the sun to gather their power. The Supermen’s eyebeams weaken the vampire and the GL’s use their remaining power to kill Mandraak.

    Everything returns to normal on Earth and Nix returns to the monitors. Nix mentions everything about the multiverse is back to normal and says the ‘New Gods’ have been revived. What makes this the final crisis? Somehow….and I mean somehow….Superman wishes for peace and that means the Monitors are no more. This is why Nix kisses his lover goodbye, and he wakes up as a human being again. The epilouge shows the ship the Daily Planet made and somehow lands in the past where Anthro is. The old man dies while making Metron’s symbol thus making sure the past is important for the future. Then a lone figure is next to the old man, drawing a bat symbol. Making us believe this is the start of Bruce’s torture from the Omega Sanction.

    There….after reading this, what feels like 1,000 times, I got the issue. And now I will change my score from a 2 to a 5. I love Grant Morrison!

  118. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:01 pm

    @TNC-You didn’t really get the issu

    -I don’t think his name is "the black superman"

    -They send what remains of the mementoes that were not destroyed by the metal men.  Not a tribute to Batman specifically, the JLA and superheroes in general

    -The omega finder beams are coming from the black racer and they are chasing the flashes.  So they run past Darkseid and cause the beams to strike him instead, so that is why he tells Darkseid that he comes for all, even him

    -the god weapon is being built by the heroes so that Superman can summon Nix to help them, at least thats what I gather.  That is why someones states they are building "a super communications device-like a cellphone to the gods."  Thats why Nix shows up when Superman powers it up with the solar energy he has stored.  And then Nix said "Superman.  Your signal has been received and understood."

    -I have no fucking idea what happens to Wonder Woman.  That part is whack

    The rest is close enough

  119. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    @drake:

    -I dont know the superman’s name in the beginning, so what else am I suppose to call him?

    -You right the mementos are what’s left of the watchtower…but

  120. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    @TNC-Afro-Superman?  No that wouldn’t work cuz there is already a Superman with an afro in the double page spread.  Hows ’bout Superbro?

  121. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    (sorry hit enter before I could finish…CAN WE HAVE AN EDIT BUTTON PLEASE?)

    -but Sivana and Luthor did stop the metal men.

    -I believe that’s what I said about the flashes and the dark rider…just in simplier terms.

    -the miracle machine gathers the Superman, not Nix. Nix just comes out of nowhere from what I read. He even states ‘I just showed up in time’.

    -Yeah the wonder woman thing is a mystery to me.

  122. flapjaxx says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    @PraxJarvin (&TNC, I guess): I was asuming that the Bruce we see at the end had been somehow conjured out of the rocket AFTER having escaped the Omega Sanction off-panel, in a story to be told later. Maybe I’m wrong. I sort of guessed that they might have also placed Bruce’s skeleton in the rocket, but this is a complete guess on my part. I haven’t reread the Mister Miracle mini, but I seem to remember that MM climbed out of his grave after beating the Omega Sanction, so I guess that Bruce’s skeleton will reanimate/recorporate after he inevitably beats it as well. And I was thinking maybe he would have reappeared due to the Bat-signal placed in the rocket. I don’t know. He has his usual tights on, which his skeleton also had on, if that means anything.

  123. flapjaxx says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    @TNC: "And now I will change my score from a 2 to a 5"

    Hm. I expected this. But you didn’t read Superman Beyond, huh? It’s nearly mandatory. Besides introducing the vampire Monitor, more than that, it gets you mentally prepared for the themes that Morrison’s going for toward the ending. I wouldn’t give this a 5, though. 

  124. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:13 pm

    @TNC-This is why you should have read Superman Beyond!!  Captain Marvel and the other Supermen on the ship are the ones gathering the Supermen of all the universes.  Thats the quest that he was sent on by superman in Superman Beyond in their crazy ship.  But I think it could be argued, and we should probably agree, that Superman’s "wish" from the machine was to call everyone that needed to be there.  So yeah, the Supermen and Nix.

    Then you said Darkseid used his omega sanction, not the black rider.  Did you mean to say the black rider?

  125. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Before the debate goes on any further, best line in the whole issue.  "There is a black hole where my heart should be."

  126. Avatar photo Ratenef says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    I’m torn between giving this a 1 and a 5, so I settled on a generous 4.

    Part of me wonders if with the ‘Montior’ waking at the end, if this was all just some horrible dream.

    Another part of me feels as if the story is always just out of my reach, moving in my peripheral ‘vision’, and if I read this 100 times I’d have 120 explanations of what happened.

    Another part asks ‘Grant, what on earth have you been smoking and where do I get some?’

    As I said to friends at the beginning of the battle of this last summers events, DC will be a better story/idea/concept but Marvel will win due to ‘bread and circuses’.

    I’m almost completely certain that DC editorial slapped the moniker Crisis on this series for no other reason than sales, which will probably backfire and kick them in the ass.

  127. Avatar photo Muady says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    Yea, actually, I think the epilogue is Bruce remerging from the Omega Sanction. He’s now in the past and he’s drawing Bat-signs on the walls to let people in the future (He knows he’s in the past cause he’s the god damned Batman) know when he is. 

    Its kind of a clever set up for Batman: Rebirth whenever they’re ready to bring him back. 

  128. Avatar photo FACE says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    thank God for Geoff Johns or else i might never have anything to do with DC again after this

  129. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:24 pm

    The story that brianmaru linked to at CBR is really good and totally helps to understand what G-Mo was "trying" to accomplish.  Whether he did it or not is up to the reader.  I think he did, for the most part 🙂

  130. Avatar photo rwpos says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:27 pm

    @TheNextChampion – Generally a sound summary, thanks!  I don’t think that the animals (Captain Carrot and the Zoo Crew) were supposed to be Supermen though.  They just appear to play the crucial role of exiled animals from Earth-35, who’s key contribution is to amp up the ridiculousness of the moment.  And Superman only used the Miracle Machine to wish for a "happy ending" (something easily accomplished in our earth for a few bucks, but I won’t get into that here), at least according to Nix Uotan; it was Captain Marvel who brought the Supermen.  Also, I don’t think that Bruce is living in the Omega Sanction by the end.  He simply appears to be in the past, or on an alternate Earth, because if that’s supposed to be a living hell, it’s pretty tame.  And for me this started at 2 stars and I still think that’s fair.  Mahnke’s art was pretty nice though!

  131. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    @drake: Your right the beams did come out of the Flashes and Dark Rider portal they made. But I didnt think Superman Beyond would’ve been that important. Clearly the tie-ins were very important and I bet if people read it (like me) this would’ve made a bit more sense.

    But I am starting to get the sense that they put Bruce’s body in the ship. Cause yeah it wouldnt make sense why he suddenly appears in the past and it cant be a coincidence that the ship was there when he was in the past. I think think the happy ending means that there is no monitors anymore….at least until the next crisis happens.

  132. Avatar photo TheDudeVonDoom says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:45 pm

    So Superman saved the day, right?

  133. drtiehead says:
    January 28, 2009 at 11:59 pm

    I’m a DC guy… love the DCU.  Issue 1 confussed the hell out of me, but I stuck with it, hoping it would all come together, sadly it didn’t.  AFter reading this, I can say, this kinda sucked, I think, maybe, I don’t know. 

     At the end of the day it seemes to me that this is a self contained story, that does not have impact on any other regular books. (Except for Batman) Which after this confusing mess, may be a good thing.

  134. Avatar photo DemonBoy says:
    January 29, 2009 at 12:02 am

    @TNC – If you look very closely the Omega beams are coming from all of the people surrounding them who are infected by Anti-Life.  I was thrown off at first too but on closer inspection, it’s pretty clear 🙂

  135. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 29, 2009 at 12:06 am

    @Demon: Ooooohh your right….So it didnt come from the portal at all. See? Even when I think I understand everything from this issue it’s something completely different. Either way Darkseid screwed himself by using the Omega Sanction.

  136. Avatar photo DemonBoy says:
    January 29, 2009 at 12:31 am

    Loved the issue by the way…….  I’ve read it 3 times so far and will proabbly pull a full 1-7 reading Friday.

  137. Avatar photo Maceface says:
    January 29, 2009 at 1:05 am

    Oh. My. God. Does DC hate me and they hired Morrison to be my hit man? Has the Sinestro Corps been reformed to only include horrible writers? Is Mastermind controlling my senses and preventing me from reading the true issue #7 of Final Crisis? Tragically, NO! I will begin my quest to find a way to remove Morrison from this reality before this annihilation wave seeps into my personal system. Issue #7 summarized (spoiier alert): wha? chop zip huh? smash face clone swoosh what? evil! noble! where? wait! zip boom huh? safety end/begin why?

  138. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 29, 2009 at 1:33 am

    Not to sound snarky or acting like I’m the boss of anything….

    But I hope the ifanboys do the video podcast for this event soon. Hopefully two-three weeks from now. I mean I’m sure this is gonna be a looooong discussion on the audio podcast this sunday, but I would love to see the overall reactions before everyone forgets about this.

    Just saying.

  139. doomwad says:
    January 29, 2009 at 1:39 am

    @TheNextChampion –  I totally agree.  I could listen or watch an hour long show on this series.  I couldn’t follow the plot to a level where I was satisfied, but I could see how other people might totally dig this story.  For me, it wasn’t my cup of tea, but yet I still can’t call it a bad story.  It seems too ambitous for that, but maybe with some additional time and discussion I will appreciate it more.  I’d still like to have a better idea of what actually happened in the story.

  140. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 29, 2009 at 1:41 am

    Well considering conor has perfectly described each issue without any problems….I’m sure conor has our backs for the inevitable vid podcast 🙂

  141. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 29, 2009 at 3:05 am

    Same thing as RIP, the fans go back and forth saying "this happened and that happened!" while the rest of us say "tell me why I care".

  142. Avatar photo Wolfdog says:
    January 29, 2009 at 6:33 am

    I liked this much in the same way I liked David Lynch’s Lost Highway.  At some point I just stop thinking and go along for the ride.

    After all, I didn’t need to know why the cabin was burning in reverse… I just thought it looked cool.

  143. Avatar photo ultimatehoratio says:
    January 29, 2009 at 8:39 am

    Utter nonsense.  This is the worst big hype comic I’ve read since DK2.

  144. Avatar photo Kory says:
    January 29, 2009 at 9:17 am

    I was halfway through it and I wanted throw it across the room.  The $3.99 price tag was the only reason I finished reading it.  Some may question my reading comprehension when I say this, but I didn’t know what was happening.

  145. Avatar photo Nate says:
    January 29, 2009 at 9:18 am

    And what happend to Libra? If I didn’t read FC secret files, I would never have known who he was. Yet his story started in FC and never paid off. That just seems weak. 

  146. Avatar photo Kory says:
    January 29, 2009 at 9:22 am

    *Correction

    I understand what was happening, but WHY was it happening.  I have no clue why I should care about the ending with the Monitors.  I don’t know what the miracle machine is, I don’t know what the meaning of the Metron symbol on the Earth is supposed to represent, I have no clue what the Green Lanterns were fighting on pg. 25.

  147. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 29, 2009 at 10:10 am

    @edward – Yep, I do live in Melbourne. New comics come out Thursday & I was at the shop nice & early so I could join in this "debate", even though I have no comprehension skills (obviously, because I didn’t like this issue.)

    I’m repeating what I said about the reactions to RIP, but it baffles me how people are basically guessing what they read (& there is A LOT of guess work here) but still enjoy it. If something is so deliberatly unclear that you have guess what it all means, I don’t see how you could like it. *shrugs*

    I thought about it though, & like with RIP I blame DC for this, not Morrison. Maybe this is an awesome essay on the deconstruction of super hero comics, or brilliant commentary on the form of the "event" comic, or a genius experiment in the format of a "story" — but it was a shite story & that makes it a shite comic.

    I said in another thread that this was the wrong platform for this experimental type stuff, & I was flamed for saying a bunch of stuff I never said (that I love Rulk, I hate Geoff Johns & I love generic comics), but all I meant was that big line wide event books are targeted at ALL the people who read DC comics. This type of style of "story" is not for everyone, so it’s in the wrong book. If it appeals to a minority of readers — it should be in a book that appeals to a minority of readers.

  148. Avatar photo stuclach says:
    January 29, 2009 at 11:09 am

    There is a fairly interesting explanation of the "jumpy" nature of this event given at the following link: http://www.popcultureshock.com/cbclub/?p=368

    The explanation may be giving GMo more credit than he deserves, or it could be absolutely correct.  Either way, I think it is a very interesting take on this event.  It has certainly enhanced my opinion of the arc.

  149. Avatar photo DocSamson says:
    January 29, 2009 at 11:15 am

    The think my problem with RIP and FC has always been that people who really seem to enjoy it, have basically reread and reread all the books and done a bunch of research online in order to MAYBE get it. That’s just absurd. Maybe some people like to do research in order to understand what they’re reading or watching, but I certainly don’t, especially when no one REALLY seems to know what the real intention was.

  150. Avatar photo ultimatehoratio says:
    January 29, 2009 at 11:50 am

    So what was up with Hawkman and Hawkgirl?

  151. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 29, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    @ultimatehoratio-yeah, that was the part I understood the least.  Also happened to be the part I didn’t much care for.

    @DocSamson-I agree that the people that are enjoying it more are the ones that enjoy rereading, but I disagree about the "doing research" part.  I don’t go see other peoples explinations, aside from some interviews G-Mo does, in order to understand everything thats being attempted.  I get the bulk of the ideas from discussions I have here on iFanboy and other forums!  Talking to other fans is the best way to really get a grasp on it and get multiple interpretations.  And isn’t that a good thing?  To start discussions?  I think so.

  152. Avatar photo Muady says:
    January 29, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    DocSamson, the "real intention" doesn’t matter. The secret to enjoying this kind of writing is stop worrying about those kinds of things. 🙂

  153. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 29, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    So is it an unspoken law that we’re not allowed to re-read comics?

    Cause JJ and others seem to have a problem I re-read the issue and liked it more cause I could understand it. I guess those guys just burn their comics afterwards since why re-read something you spend money on? I mean I’m sure that’s what people do with books…..who re-read’s Moby Dick or 1984?

    If you cant experiment in comics then your doomed to make bad comics. Stan Lee experimented when he invented his characters and stories; Frank Miller experiemented the hell out of Batman, Grant Morrison is experiementing with mainstream characters and how to tell original stories with them. Again if you dont want that, then dont read it and ruin it for the rest of us.

  154. Avatar photo Kory says:
    January 29, 2009 at 1:19 pm

    TheNextChampion: "Again if you dont want that, then dont read it and ruin it for the rest of us."

    Someone needs to take his own advice.  😉

  155. Avatar photo DocSamson says:
    January 29, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    @Muady: Again, if I can’t understand what’s going on without digging all over the internet for it, I don’t enjoy it.

    @TNC: Never said you can’t reread your comics, I said I don’t like to, especially multiple times, in order to "get" it. Which you’ve said yourself you did in order to understand and enjoy this run. IMO I think that’s crazy. When’s the last time you reread a novel or rewatched a movie MULTIPLE times in order to understand what happened?

  156. Avatar photo DocSamson says:
    January 29, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    Someone mentioned David Lynch earlier, do most of you who enjoyed RIP and FC like his movies? No sinister motive, just wondering. It so happens I can’t stand his movies FYI.

  157. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 29, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    @DocSamson-I rewatch movies all the time and pick up stuff that I missed. Especially if its a mysterey movie.  The Prestige, Memento, etc.  Enjoyable watching once, but very very rewarding to pick up stuff you might have missed before. 

    And TNC makes a good point (yeah, I know it doesnt happen often. :-))  If you spend money on something, why not enjoy it more than once?  I can’t imagine not rereading my comics at all.  Sure, you could argue you don’t enjoy rereading it so soon after you just finished it.  Thats a fair criticism.

  158. Avatar photo DocSamson says:
    January 29, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    @Drake: I didn’t mean I never reread or rewatch anything. I totally understand what you’re saying. Rewatching or rereading things happens for me because I enjoyed it the first time, even if I missed a few minor details. Like you said at the end there, I just don’t understand basically rereading over and over until you get it, that’s what doesn’t  make sense to me.

  159. Avatar photo Muady says:
    January 29, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Doc… 

    That is precisely what I am saying. Stop feeling like you have to dig around on the internet in order to understand it. How do YOU understand it? 

  160. Avatar photo kndoubleu says:
    January 29, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    I don’t know anything about any DC U stuff (Marvel zombie here), but I picked up this series and its (many) offshoots and enjoyed it. I’m sure I’d like it more if I was more invested in the characters, but it worked for me.

  161. Avatar photo ultimatehoratio says:
    January 29, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    Final Crisis is the Southland Tales of comics.

  162. Avatar photo brianmaru says:
    January 29, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    @Docsamson

     

    Yes, I enjoyed Final Crisis and RIP while also liking Lynch films, though both creators have their share of misses.  

  163. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 29, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    @Doc: Ever heard of Nietzsche? Dont tell me you can read his stuff once and not have to re-read it again.

    I think I also understand another thing why everyone is so pissed. You anti-Morrison fans spent $30 and you bitched and moan. Now I was the same way with Secret Invasion and I didnt get why people loved it. But now that I know you ‘wasted so much money on a story you hated…..which btw, again you could’ve just dropped it and not talk about it. But instead you spent the money to pick up each issue and read it and complained about the writing in this….What does that tell me? It tells me that Morrison grabbed you, even in a negative view point, and still made you spent your hard earn money to read this.

    So whether you want to admit it or not Morrison haters; you spent the money, you got into the story, and even if you hated it overall; you talked about it. Mission Accomplished DC Editorial and Grant Morrison.

     

  164. Avatar photo WadebeforeSlade says:
    January 29, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    @ultimatehoratio: I wholeheartedly agree.  This should have been an elseworlds book or something.  I happen to be a Grant Morrisson fan, with Batman: Gothic (Legends of the Dark Knight 6-10) being one of my favorite comics of all time (Klaus Janson on art helps too).  But Final Crisis and Batman RIP were not good.  I seriously think he was fatigued for this from DC making him rewrite stuff (though he says otherwise) and if you read the first issues of each of these series – it seems like the story could have gone other places in the main series if not for editorial changes and a lack of space in the small number of issues for the stories.  They let Loeb tell Hush over a year, why couldn’t RIP get the same treatment?  Crisis on Infinite Earths was 12 issues, maybe Final Crisis needed it too.  This is just the "Invasion" or "Secret Wars II" of our generation.  All the nonsense will get cleared up, Batman will return, Darkseid too, in time and in their original forms.

  165. Avatar photo WilliamKScurryJr says:
    January 29, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    @ultimatehoratio: Good call, I agree. Whoa, was this thing all over the map! That’s two noble faliures for GMo, between this and RIP.

  166. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 29, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    @Willaim:…..Failures?…..Incredible…

  167. Avatar photo Kory says:
    January 29, 2009 at 4:28 pm

    I hated RIP, but after a second reading it was the ending that really ruined for me.  On the other hand I loved Final Crisis until this issue, but the ending was just…weird. 

    I think Morrison has big ideas, but he doesn’t know how to end them.

  168. Avatar photo Ruo21 says:
    January 29, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    I gave this issue a 4 because it had moments that were just amazing. The scene where Superman confronts Darkseid is spectacular, but then it loses focuses and becomes jumbled. This issue seemed to leave the most plot holes of the entire series. How was Wonder Woman freed? Did Barry make out with her? And where the F did Mandrakk come from… he was just taken down a peg or two in the pages of Beyond, I didn’t think he’d be brought back so fast.

  169. ntn1015 says:
    January 29, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    I re-read issues 1-6 before reading this one and it made more sense. I highly recommend re-reading the whole series!!! Not that I was impressed at all with the series, but it makes WAY more sense if you read it all at once, but it is still one big convoluted overly complicated story that will probably be retconned. I guess it was OK, but I’m going to think hard about getting involved in another Grant Morrison story they take way too much effort to understand.

  170. Avatar photo DocSamson says:
    January 29, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    @Doc: Ever heard of Nietzsche? Dont tell me you can read his stuff once and not have to re-read it again.

     You are seriously jumping off the rails even mentioning Nietzsche and Morrison in the same breath.

  171. Avatar photo DocSamson says:
    January 29, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    @Muady: I don’t get it, all I really took out of it was a jumbled mess with some good ideas that were squandered by said jumbled mess.

    @TNC: You’re partially right. People are pissed they spent all that money and don’t like it, BUT (at least for me) I didn’t drop it because I was HOPING it would come around and make sense, NOT because Morrison grabbed me.

  172. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 29, 2009 at 7:05 pm

    @TNC: What the hell?! You know, for a guy who likes to decipher hidden plot points in opaque comic works you sure do misunderstand basic, straight-forward statements.

    http://www.ifanboy.com/content/articles/The_iFanboy_Letter_Column_-_12_19_08_

    Check out the third letter in that column. Jason from NB is me. I LOVE to re-read! My issue with you TNC, is that the reward for your numerous re-reads is the comprehension of basic plot points. Not metaphorical underlayers, not hidden allegorical meanings. You had to re-read multiple times to get the basic jist of the story. And even then you are sometimes guessing and are unsure of some key points ("…somehow"). And then you change your score from 2 to 1? If any other writer did this they would get negative reviews out the ying yang. But G-Mo does it and he gets praised.

    G-Mo is a fad.

  173. Avatar photo Muady says:
    January 29, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    So why don’t you leave it at that? Your first post here said that you’re problem with book is that "people who really seem to enjoy it, have basically reread and reread all the books and done a bunch of research online in order to MAYBE get it.". That line makes you seem to be more frustrated with how other people are enjoying the book, not with how you are not enjoying it.

    But I’ll add as a qualifier that your description of how people are enojying, and "getting", the book, isn’t necessarily accurate. That’s just what you seem to perceive. 

  174. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 29, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    2 to 5*

     

  175. Handsaw says:
    January 29, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    I still dont get it

  176. Avatar photo FACE says:
    January 29, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    I used to work on the assembly line at Chrysler with an older black man named Harvey. One night he caught me listening to Jimi Hendrix and he told about him and his friends in the sixties and how they used to smoked pot while they listened to Hendrix in hopes of getting smarter. Of course now he was telling me just what a crazy idea that was and it’s what I equate this with.

    I’ve read every issue of Final Crisis AT LEAST twice. I’ve done my homework (checked Wiki, read reviews and all the discussions, ¡I READ COUNTDOWN GOD DAMMIT!) just so I could comprehend what I’ve read. Here’s the thing though, I still don’t like it.

    ..but I did.

    You can find a review from me for both RIP issue 1 and FC issue 1 featuring nothing but praise, and both books deserved it. Morrison starts so strong, and he delivers on the promise of a CRISIS, but he never slows down long enough for it to happen. The situations with Wonder Woman and Hawkman (among others) really spotlight this flaw.

    Maybe it’s like my theory on RIP, thinking Morrison actually wanted us to think like the Bat himself. Whereas here he wanted us to feel as though things were out of order. Like we were a part of the Crisis. That’s creative, but hardly genius and I seriously doubt anyone’s any smarter for having witnessed it.

    Truthfully I’m looking forward to Morrison’s next endeavor. I hope it’s not on a mainstream title that people are obliged to enjoy so we can get a real response on this: does this method of storytelling deliver when it’s not playing with characters we love? Only time can tell.

  177. Avatar photo MastaP says:
    January 29, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    I got to the epilogue of the last issus, I usdertood everthing pretty clearly first run through, and I loved it so much, I was willing to call it the best book of the year. Then I got to the last page.

    I have never been so unneccecarily angry with a comic book in my life

  178. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 29, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    @JJ: I dont read those articles how am I suppose to know? 🙂 Also….I changed my name from 2 to 5…

    Ironically while I was in Philsophy class I was thinking of all the stuff Morrison has branched out for other writers to use. Now obviously what I’m about to say is all coming out of my ass….I mean mouth….But hopefully in the future, whether it’s Morrison or others, will focus on some of the ideas that are flying around (well…at least in my head).

    First off is what Morrison has done to Batman. Now there are a variety of things anyone could do with his perdictiment right now. It all just depends on what is going on with Bruce overall. It could either be:

    A) Bruce got out of the Omega Sanction’s effects and is stuck in the past. This could lead to a variety of things, mainly time travel. Maybe down the road the heroes of the present will figure out where Bruce is and try to find out how to get him back.

    B) Bruce is just starting his new life from the Omega Sanction and Bruce is going to go threw his torture in the regular Earth. So when he dies in pre-historic times he’ll end up reincarnating into the next life. Then the next and the next, until he winds up going back into his original body. That way it starts the whole chain of events all over again, causing Bruce to relive this over and over and over again. (Probablity of that depressing story to happen is less then 5%….I doubt DC would let Batman have that type of fate)

    C) Bruce, again, is going threw the Omega Beam torture….but this time he is going threw each stage in the multiverse. So he starts his new life in the anicent times of Anthro. Then he dies and goes on to Earth-2, where he dies by the hands of the Joker. This goes on for all 52 Earths. Basically the Bruce’s we see in the Elseworld tales or from what we’ve seen in the comic where the multiverse is a factor…..it’s a different Bruce Wayne psychially, but subconciously (without the psychical Bruce knowning) the real Bruce Wayne is suffering threw what they are suffering. It would be interesting to see if writers could somehow do that; maybe have one arc in Batman be about the new Batman while the next arc is about Bruce’s struggles within the Omega Sanction.

    Then we have to figure in the huge revelation that now everyone knows of the multiverse exsisting. Now a good sample of heroes/villains already know of it (mainly the JSA, Booster Gold, Mastermind, and a few more) exsisting. But now that the Final Crisis has happening and that (maybe, I’m not sure if they are truely gone) the monitors are no more….it could be easier for people to somehow get into the multiverse and go to the different earths. I’m not sure if the multiverse’s knowledge with the characters have been reconned out of the DCU characters from previous crisis’s….But if they arent, then having the villains or other cosmic villains know of the multiverse….That to me is HUGE!

    Again probably very little to none of these factors will happen. But this is just the tip of what writers could do with the ending of this event.

  179. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 29, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    What I meant in the comment you were reffering to is self evident. That’s what I’m saying. You mistcontrue things easily.

  180. Avatar photo dharmabum says:
    January 29, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    I wanted to like this series.

    But it sucked. 

    It sucked hard. 

    It was confusing, poorly structured and poorly told.

    Way too much happened off screen.

    Also, I should not have to buy every tie-in just to understand what the heck is going on and who everyone is in the main title. 

     

  181. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 29, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    @dharmabum-I personally think the only necessary tie-in was Superman Beyond.  I never understood how others would say you had to read everything.

    @JJ-I feel your pain with TNC.  Just let it go man; he don’t listen quite right.  🙂 He’s just too young to understand

  182. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 29, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    oh snap!

  183. Avatar photo MastaP says:
    January 29, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    Okay, I’m starting to calm down… it is quite good, but the whole reason I started this series becuase I was promised Kamandi on the last page.

    I mean other than that, I found it ALOT clearer than people were telling me it was going to be. I got it all in the first read. Than agian, this is totally to my tastes. My only wish (besides the kamandi thing) is that we could have seen that awesome new design for Orion. Still, definitly the best "event" book I’ve ever read

  184. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 30, 2009 at 12:18 am

    @drake: Wrong sir! Your wrong! Here is verbatium, from the mouth of Morrison himself on what you need to read for FC…..Hope it helps.

    FINAL CRISIS # 1- 3
    SUPERMAN BEYOND # 1- 2
    SUBMIT
    FINAL CRISIS # 4 – 5
    BATMAN #682 – 683
    FINAL CRISIS # 6 – 7

  185. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 30, 2009 at 1:19 am

    @TNC-You tool.  I clearly said that I "personally" think only Superman Beyond is required.  And I am hardly the only one to think so. 

  186. Avatar photo watchthesparks says:
    January 30, 2009 at 1:24 am

    i really enjoyed final crisis. yes it is "difficult," in the sense that you can’t just flip through it. i don’t know acquiring a basic understanding of what happened requires hours of research on the internet, but it does require thinking about what just happened for a few minutes before picking up the next book in your stack, and maybe re-reading each issue one or two times.

    now, there are definitely some parts of the last issue i don’t grasp quite yet, most notably how wonder woman broke free of anti-life and whatever she did with her lasso. and the miracle machine may as well have been literally called the "deus ex machina." i don’t think the wrap up to FC was quite as satisfying, or complete i guess, as the conclusion of superman beyond was. but all in all it was quite a series and by far the most ambitious thing i’ve read (at least since seven soldiers, haha). viva g-mo!

     

  187. Avatar photo rwpos says:
    January 30, 2009 at 1:56 am

    I laughed when Lois Lane "wrote" that "this" (the events of Final Crisis) was the story of Arthur of Atlantis’ (aka Aquaman’s) return to save his people in their time of need, when Aquaman appears in only that one single panel and there is, in fact, no story or explantion about his return whatsoever.  I think this may qualify as actual irony.  It was kind of like, rather than telling an actual story, Morrison just tells the reader that he told a story and that’s good enough.

    And did Hawkman (and Hawkgirl?) die?

  188. Avatar photo jobob247 says:
    January 30, 2009 at 2:14 am

    I’m not writing it to enrage the Gmo crew. I don’t even know where to begin with this event. DC are you kidding me?

    DC what is it that you are attempting to accomplish? The number one goal I would have to ASSUME is to gain new readers. Meetings are the same at any company: You love the customer base you’ve built, but you need NEW customers. DC, I assume you want to expand your reader base. This is the "big event" that has been building at DC for months and months. Gmo defense squad don’t even claim this hasn’t been hyped as THE Event at DC. Again, one would have to assume that DC is attempting to gain new customers with said event. All the posters, all the advertising, all the hype. How could it be anything but?

    I personally have been into comics for going on 18 years, I have 3 younger brothers that I’m trying to bring along. There is absolutely no way you could simply hand Final Crisis 1-7 (and/or it’s Gmo written related titles) and expect anything more than a dumbfounded "HUH" look on anyone’s face.

    At the end of the day, it’s about attempting to gain new readers

    I’m also going to anticipate another counter argument: You can’t just read FC 1-7 you have to get the backstory first right? See new reader counter argument. You can’t expect to "win" faithful new readers and expect them to have to pile through backissues or… onto my next point…..

    To that end I think it begs the question. What IF Gmo wrote this when there wasn’t an internet? When there wasn’t sites dedicated to annotations. When there weren’t teaming herds of nerds on forums, irc and other related message boards to explain this "story".?!

    Summary: I’m not even going to attempt to get my younger brothers to read this; they’d never want to come near a comic "event" ever again.

  189. Avatar photo micahmyers says:
    January 30, 2009 at 5:23 am

    i understood most of this, except did hawkman, hawkgirl, mr. terrific, and the rest of checkmate die or did they get sent to earth-51(the kirby-verse)?

  190. Handsaw says:
    January 30, 2009 at 8:20 am

    would it be to hard for every book DC puts out during an event to actually take place during the event.  I want to know what happens off panel, how people got to where they were.  It just seems that event books are not even going on at the same time everything else is going on.  I dont want, for instance, to read JSA 22 where they are finishing up with GOG then read final crisis 6 and 7 where the world is falling apart and then pick up JSA 23 and they are back dealing with the aftermath with GOG like nothing in the event even happend.  I think that would sell a lot more books that people would normally not read if it would give them a better understanding of what is actually going on.  Maybe they did do this with some books, but not the ones I read.  So sorry if my comment/idea is inaccurate.

  191. Avatar photo stuclach says:
    January 30, 2009 at 8:37 am

    Wow.  This may not be a record for most comments, but it certainly sets the bar for quantity of childish comments.

    Why are some of you trying to convince others that the book is good when they clearly dislike it and why are some of you trying to convince others that the book sucks when they clearly like it?  What is the incentive?

    Take all this energy and go recruit people to sign up for iFanboy memberships.

  192. Avatar photo Nate says:
    January 30, 2009 at 8:43 am

    With all the negative comments, I’m very suprised that 30% of the Ifanboy readers made this their pick of the week. Oh, well, I really liked Final Crisis #1-#4, those were great, especially #3, I thought we were really getting somwhere…

  193. Avatar photo DemonBoy says:
    January 30, 2009 at 9:30 am

    @handsaw – I don’t think it would be editorially possible to properly tie in all of the DC books with the event as it’s happening.  This is what they tried with Countdown and we all know how that ended up.  I know Marvel did it with Secret Invasion but that was one thing I really disliked about SI.  Since I was only reading the main book, I felt like I missed alot of important stuff, I’d rather it be self contained and tell it’s own story. 

    I’m enjoying how they are doing it : let Final Crisis do it’s thing, let the other books wrap up their current storylines naturally, then (in March, I think they said) most of the books that are current continuity will switch to post-Final Crisis mode.  It makes more sense to me to do it this way. 

  194. Avatar photo OttoBott says:
    January 30, 2009 at 10:44 am

    Being on the Heavy Ink schedule, I’ll get to the firestorm a week or so too late. Which is fine, I think, in this case. Goodness.

    From Way Up There: @ultimatehoratio – …I dunno, I kind of liked Southland Tales. I mean, it was a mess to be sure, and not entirely successful, and completely overwrought in parts, but it still had some charm to it. Richard Kelly is definitely on probation for me, but it wasn’t an utter failure like everyone warned me of. Does this mean I’ll dig FC#7?

    @JJ – re: G-Mo is a fad. Couldn’t that be said for a LOT of writers? Frank Miller isn’t writing like he used to, and Moore hasn’t penned a Watchmen, V for Vendetta or From Hell in ages (the closest was LOEG, but I still wouldn’t put that in the same strata). I’m reminded of an article I read in Wired about there being two different types of "creative genius"– the explosive progeny who burns out early and the experimentative old-master who finally perfects his art after yeeeaarrrss of trial-and-error. I’m not anticipating Morrison’s burnout for a while anyways, but it wouldn’t surprise me if you saw him fade away after he explores everything his drugs told him to.  🙂

    addendum: On second thought, I haven’t read Moore’s Lost Girls. It might well be brilliant and "up there," but I still probably won’t buy it.

  195. Avatar photo Kimbo says:
    January 30, 2009 at 10:58 am

    okay..this made absolutely no sense.

  196. Avatar photo Kimbo says:
    January 30, 2009 at 11:03 am

    who the heck is Mandrakk?  Where did he come from?  

  197. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 30, 2009 at 11:38 am

    @Kimbo-read previous post man!!! 😛  He was the main baddy in the Superman Beyond series

  198. Avatar photo FACE says:
    January 30, 2009 at 12:01 pm

    Later this afternoon I’m aquiring the patent on "It’s a Morrison thing… you wouldn’t understand" bumper stickers and spare tire covers. Get ’em while they’re HOT!!

  199. Avatar photo OttoBott says:
    January 30, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    I will buy at least two of those, Face.

  200. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 30, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    I’ll take 5, and give 3 to JumpingJupiter

  201. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 30, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    @drake: You kidden? He’ll take 100!

    Yeah this probably set the record for most comments and reviews for anything ever……Congrads to all!

    I would like to know what happenend to Hawkman, Hawkgirl…..But now that I think about it those two characters always get fucked around so who really cares?

  202. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 30, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    (sorry for double post but….)

    Also, what event like this is ever truely reader friendly? You need to know a shit load of info before you could get into an event. The Crisis’s arent reader friendly, Sinestro Corps isnt reader friendly, Secret Invasion isnt reader friendly, neither is Infinity Gaunlet, Age of Apocolypse, House of M, Annihilation, or Civil War.

    So to think that this was going to be reader friendly, or noob friendly is just bland ridiculous to think. You can never really gain new readers from events, cause your gonna need to know the backstory first of an event before you read the event.

  203. Avatar photo Hellblazer says:
    January 30, 2009 at 1:48 pm

    I got about halfway through and then I realized "Conor will explain this!", haha, can’t wait for the end of Final Crisis!

  204. Avatar photo jobob247 says:
    January 30, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    @TNC Either you purposely ignored the rest of my statement , or you didn’t read it all. Either way, YOU and the gmo hoard wouldn’t get any of this if it wasn’t for annotations, wiki entries, etc on the internet. Don’t even claim you would get this without all kinds of help. Hell even wiki entries don’t even explain this crap fully.

  205. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 30, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    @jobob: I didnt read any of the annotations, wiki entries, or get help from the internet. I just re-read it a couple of times and got the gist of it. You dont need that stuff to understand most of this. You only need those annotations and what nots if you dont know the characters….which btw you dont really need to know everything about Frankenstein or Talky Twany to get this. Just read it.

  206. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 30, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    I didn’t read wiki or annotations either.

  207. Avatar photo Kory says:
    January 30, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    Snobs.  😉

  208. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 30, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    Alright I will explain to this all over again:

    (We interupt my rant to give you puppies…..people like puppies)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuzdGiW90Zs&feature=related

  209. Avatar photo gnanniv says:
    January 30, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Loved Final Crisis. Did not read annotations.

  210. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 30, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    @Kory-I would respond to your post, but I am too busy sipping on fancy wine and scoffing at things 🙂

  211. Avatar photo Smasher says:
    January 30, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    While Final Crisis wasn’t the greatest ‘event’ comic of all time (and to think they killed Martian Manhunter for it!) I’m pointing my fingers at editorial for why it didn’t pay off.

    Editorial knew in advance that this story needed to be delivered on time and with good direction so that readers knew what to follow when. The fact that we needed a Newsarama interview w/ GMo to find out the order of the book and not in the actual title underlines the latter.

    Considering how well they managed the previous Crises, I’m guessing they just crapped out. Oh well.

  212. Avatar photo HBD says:
    January 30, 2009 at 9:55 pm

    I think Morrison just gave my brain cancer.

  213. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 30, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    @HBD: That’s weird, cause Morrison cured my canker sores. 🙂

  214. Avatar photo mikeandzod21 says:
    January 31, 2009 at 2:36 am

    @smasher    i dont think editorial understood it any better than i did.

  215. Avatar photo mikeandzod21 says:
    January 31, 2009 at 2:45 am

    grant morrison has officially done tooo many drugs to make sense

  216. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 31, 2009 at 4:35 am

    "grant morrison has officially done tooo many drugs to make sense"

    That’s possible, I’m wondering if is unorthodox religious beliefs have anything to do with his experimental leanings. Seems to me I’ve read him commenting on the importance of story in his belief in Magik.

    Can of worms opened? Check.

  217. Avatar photo OttoBott says:
    January 31, 2009 at 9:11 am

    The question is, which came first, the drugs or the Chaos Magick or the aliens?? His lecture at DisInfo Con = Awesome. http://tinyurl.com/b28a9s

  218. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 31, 2009 at 9:59 am

    My favourite part was when Superman used the power of song to defeat the cosmic vampire. *cough*

    I also liked when he memorised the blueprints of the most advanced machine ever built (a magical machine that can grant wishes LOL) with a glance … I didn’t realise Superman was smartest character in the history of all fiction …

  219. Avatar photo FACE says:
    January 31, 2009 at 10:45 am

    It’s the DEUS EX ‘WISH’ MACHINA and it’s okay because it’s Morrison and not Bendis. Here it’s genius (like Coltrane and Nietzche apparently) and not just a poor plot-resolution device.

  220. flapjaxx says:
    January 31, 2009 at 10:45 am

    @WadeWilson: Superman used a song to defeat DARKSEID. The cosmic vampire was killed by the Green Lanterns. Try understanding what you read a little better and stop trying to come off as too cool for school. (I sort of agree with some of your poins, though.)

    @TNC: "Also, what event like this is ever truely reader friendly? You need to know a shit load of info before you could get into an event. The Crisis’s arent reader friendly, Sinestro Corps isnt reader friendly, Secret Invasion isnt reader friendly, neither is Infinity Gaunlet, Age of Apocolypse, House of M, Annihilation, or Civil War."

    AoA was probably the LEAST reader-friendly event I can ever remember, but people seem to have loved it. But you have to think about how most (if not all) of those other events came with checklists and/or stated reading orders, and how editors used to explain things with asterixes. My god, how UNreader-friendly DC made FC by not including any of that. I didn’t mind waiting a few months to find out when and how most everything tied in, but other people were very frustrated by it, and it wouldn’t’ve taken much effort for editorial to just explain the order of events and put out a 

    And I find it pretty ironic that many of the people who complain about having to read an extra issue or two to understand more about an event are the same people who buy like 20 books a week anyway. And then you have people who whine about an issue that costs $3.99, meanwhile they’re spending like $60 a week on comics anyway.

  221. flapjaxx says:
    January 31, 2009 at 10:47 am

    ^I meant to say "…and put out a checklist." at the end of the second-to-last paragraph above.

  222. flapjaxx says:
    January 31, 2009 at 10:51 am

    @rwpos: "I laughed when Lois Lane "wrote" that "this" (the events of Final Crisis) was the story of Arthur of Atlantis’ (aka Aquaman’s) return to save his people in their time of need, when Aquaman appears in only that one single panel and there is, in fact, no story or explantion about his return whatsoever."

    Good point. She should have said, "This was the story of the Marvels and a talking tiger stealing the spotlight from more popular heroes at the most critical time." Iimagine if you’re watching the Super Bowl, and it’s a close game, but then between like 12:00-5:00 left in the 4th quarter, the channel starts showing a high school game.

  223. Avatar photo FACE says:
    January 31, 2009 at 10:58 am

    ooh ooh! quote and rebuttal me next!!

  224. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 31, 2009 at 11:19 am

    @flapjaxx — My bad, the power of song killed DARKSEID, that makes way more sense! I read the ending pretty fast because I was mostly laughing at it, I’m deeply sorry I mixed up DARKSEID with the cosmic vampire.

    I’m not trying to "act too cool" for anything, but I’m pretty confused why my negative comments about a comic book you didn’t write would offend you to the point where you would try to insult ME personally. I thought iFanboy.com was the one comic book website without that bullshit …

  225. Avatar photo sunhero says:
    January 31, 2009 at 11:43 am

    i loved the seris over all. but you need to read superman beyond and the batman books to make sense of but other that its not that complex. people need to broaden their horizons beyond superhero smashum-ups and dialog based bendis/geoff johns type books.

    If you do not understand something it doesn’t mean it’s incomprehensible. It just means you didn’t get it.

  226. Avatar photo Kory says:
    January 31, 2009 at 11:59 am

    Some people can’t deal with the fact that not everyone enjoys Grant Morrison huh? 

  227. Avatar photo rwpos says:
    January 31, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    @sunhero: "…people need to broaden their horizons beyond superhero smashum-ups and dialog based bendis/geoff johns type books."  Why?  Especially when the book in question is, in form, a smashum-up superhero book.  Last issue (#6) was heavily invested in battle scenes, and this issue was a collage of battles and conflict.  If people just want to read superhero books, what’s the harm?  And if they’d rather read something else (instead of, or in addition to) then there’s no shortage of alternatives.  So out of curiosity, why do you say that people need to broaden their horizons?  Also, if portions of an audience buying a mainstream superhero event story didn’t enjoy it because the story they bought didn’t conform to the standard tropes of that genre, why does that mean that the audience needs to change?  That’s not unlike saying that if I buy peanut butter only to discover that there’s mayonaise in the jar that I’m just being inflexible if I complain about it.

  228. Avatar photo Kory says:
    January 31, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    @sunhero: Some people find genius in simplicity.  Just because something is abstract doesn’t mean it’s deep and profound. 

  229. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 31, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    @flapjaxx: Well I’ll give you that, there should’ve been some type of reading order for this event. Cause, from what I pulled off of the Morrison interview, there clearly was a reading order in his mind. It would make no sense not to include it since Superman Beyond, Submit, and the two Batman issues clearly were more important then the other tie-ins.

    But to be honest, I would’ve gotten the gist of this story without reading any of those. Hell, I didnt even read Superman Beyond and the Multiverse Supermen and Mandraak still made sense to me. Plus I also read Submit and Batman, which I’m sure alot of people already did too, so in the end….does the reading order really matter?

    It should matter if A) People want to re-read this in issue form or B) Morrison’s reading order is what the trade will be. Cause even though reading issues 1-7 made sense to me going back to it; having Submit, Batman, and SB in the trade would make a lot more sense for the more common reader.

    But overall, again, I didnt read arguably the most important of the tie-in’s (Superman Beyond) and still understood most of everything. You dont need to really read the Batman tie-ins cause it’s not that important to know how Bruce got out of the machine. It’s mentioned in FC (issue 5 I believe) so it’s not like you need a detail account of how he got out of it. I dont know, I really think you should have the reading order as the offical FC trade…..but I still understood it without reading the material.

  230. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 31, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    @rwpos: ‘Why do people need to broaden their horizons?’

    Well….isnt that what a part of comics are about? Finding new titles, with new creative teams, and try to get people looking at that title as well? Hell if we didnt broaden our horizons ourselves and asked for others to do it too…..we wouldnt have ifanboy or other sites like it right now.

  231. Avatar photo captbastrd says:
    January 31, 2009 at 1:38 pm

    just like ron said, (and maybe this was mentioned in the plethora of comments here but i don’t plan to read each and every one):

    how did batman go from jumping into the helicopter to gritting his teeth in the crazy mind-copy-and-rape machine? maybe i have to reread RIP (nooooo!) but i just reread all of final crisis before reading part 8 and i don’t see where it fits in. batman is evidently captured by granny in FC but, does that mean that he jumped into the helicopter, it exploded but he escaped somehow and then was like "gotta run!", went to the JLA but forgot to drop nightwing and robin a line to let ’em know he, ya know, lived? or did he come back all hunky dory, said to the boys, "man what an adventure!" all was well, and THEN the events of FC occured, just skipping the in between period before it is evident to robin that batman is gone?

    boo.

  232. Avatar photo sunhero says:
    January 31, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    @rwpos if you don’t think you need to broaden your horizons then whats the point in life. you can just go through the motion’s day after day, or you can try to change reinvent and improve on everything you do.

  233. Avatar photo rwpos says:
    January 31, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    So the point of life is to "broaden your horizons" which in this context means learning to enjoy something that didn’t meet your expectations, so therefore life is all about learning to enjoy Final Crisis.  Got it.  Thanks.

  234. Avatar photo sunhero says:
    January 31, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    @rwpos or you could just make subpar sarcastic comments on message boards for the rest of your life and see where that gets you.

  235. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 31, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    Listen to Conor, don’t turn your love/hate for Morrison into personal attacks towards someone that doesn’t agree with you.  There is wisdom in that bald head of his

  236. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 31, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5589263822022732006&ei=vluESe7zF6GG_AGey-XuCw&q=grant+morrison+disinfo

    Actually, that reveals a lot about RIP and FC. Can you say "author insertion".

  237. Avatar photo OttoBott says:
    January 31, 2009 at 6:50 pm

    @JJ – yup. Everything I’ve ever read by Morrison suddenly became a lot more comprehensible (from an incomprehensible standing point) after I watched that lecture. Far more entertaining/interesting then a lot of his comics, honestly (and I enjoy a lot of his comics).

    A friend told me that G Mo was also intent on making all of his DC comics a Super-Mega-Sigil so the DC Universe would be realized here on earth.

     

     

  238. Avatar photo DocSamson says:
    January 31, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    Is it possible that at least some of the people arguing so hard in favor of Morrison are just sticking to their guns in that they’ve been saying "it’s going to make sense in the end"? I really feel like most people have no real explanation as to what happened, and in a lot of cases they are posting links to someone else reasoning. It’s like "I’m a Morrison fan no matter what, so I’m gonna MAKE it make sense!"

  239. Avatar photo OttoBott says:
    January 31, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    @Samson – Eh, you could probably say "at least some," but I think it might be unfair to them to paint in such broad strokes. Generally speaking people have (at least in their minds) really good reasons for thinking the way they do. I don’t think anyone willfully or consciously holds to blind bias. And diagnosing this obstinacy, even if you’re right, will probably not dissuade them from it either.  🙂

    I honestly had no idea Grant Morrison was this divisive until Conor’s article.

  240. Avatar photo OttoBott says:
    January 31, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    Of course, I haven’t read FC #7 yet (it’s coming Monday, I think), so one side of this argument could be absolutely mad for all I know.

  241. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 31, 2009 at 11:27 pm

    G-Mo espousing Crowley has made my boycott firm and official. Just in case you all cared about that. 😛

  242. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 31, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    Just to summarize — If you didn’t enjoy this issue you can’t read, you are close-minded or you just didn’t "get it". And if you dare to dislike this abstract style (that’s in a main stream book) you are trying to come off as cool & you need to try harder to understand what you read.

    I think this thread leaves no doubt as to which side of the fence has been taking things personal & dropping all the insults. 

    People need to take their lips of Morrison’s nuts for a second & realize their opinion isn’t fact. For example, I thought this issue was a complete mess. This is just my opinion, though. 

  243. Avatar photo MastaP says:
    February 1, 2009 at 12:50 am

    "I think this thread leaves no doubt as to which side of the fence has been taking things personal & dropping all the insults. "

    Both sides, as your next paragraph makes ABUNDANTLY clear.

  244. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    February 1, 2009 at 12:51 am

    @WadeWilson-uh oh, somebody needs a hug

  245. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    February 1, 2009 at 1:42 am

    If anyone is wondering, you know why it’s called Final Crisis?

    Cause Morrison has written off the Monitors, cause Superman made them all human….How that is a happy ending to change a race into something else is anyone’s guess but still….That is huge! No more monitors? Unless there is a retcon I dont think that will ever change*

    *Heavy Sarcasm

  246. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    February 1, 2009 at 2:02 am

    @MastaP — I was just returning fire!

    @drake —  Nah mate, I just get annoyed by people talking shit behind the safety & anonymity of the internet. This website has WAY less of that. It’s why I post here, so it’s disappointing to see it.

  247. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    February 1, 2009 at 3:18 am

    @Wade: (holds cross out) BACK YOU NON-BELIEVER!

    🙂

  248. Avatar photo brianmaru says:
    February 1, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    How about this for a topic instead of the fighting.

     

    What did everyone think of the art? 

  249. Avatar photo Kory says:
    February 1, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    @brianmaru: I thought the art was a little off in some panels.  For instance, what was up with Supergirl’s eye on page 7(I didn’t count the pages with ads)?  But on a positive note, I did like the character design for Aquaman.

  250. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    February 1, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    I thought the art was great for the most part; but because Mahnke came so late to the game it’s a little jarring to see some of his work. I mean you get used to Jones and Pachelo for 5-6 issues and then the art completely changes for the final issue.

    You want me to complain about something? Well just in the same vein of New Krypton; reading this in trade for the art is gonna be a headache. The different styles of pencils are going to be so jarring to some readers it’ll be difficult to new readers. The whole situations with the artists is really the huge vex on this series. Because, even with a fucking year and a half advance on it, J.G. Jones took so long with the pencils it ruined the entire shipping dates and look for the book.

    If the book stayed with Jones all the way threw it would’ve been gorgeous, but we’d still be waiting for issue 5 at this point. If we stuck with Pachelo it would’ve look good but maybe not the best artist for the event. But if we stuck with Mahnke then he would’ve been the perfect choice, next to Jones, for the event. So overall, like if I was grading the trade, the art would get a 3. What a world it would’ve been if Jones could’ve been on time with this. Or how about we have Mahnke repencil the other issues? Maybe that would be good….time consuming…but good.

  251. Avatar photo OttoBott says:
    February 1, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    @JJ – a boycot of G-Mo? Does this mean (mostly) no more Frank Quietly too, or can exceptions be made?

  252. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    February 1, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    @Otto: Exceptions will not be made. We’re talking about Crowley here. I’m staying as far away from that crap as humanly possible.

  253. Avatar photo thefreakygeeky says:
    February 1, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    i think its great.  but the covers totaly rip off alex ross.

  254. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    February 1, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    @thefreakygeeky-Not even close to ripping off Ross.  If they wanted to do that, they would have lifeless poses and souless eyes.  These covers actually have fluidity to them and go a long way towards humanizing the characters.  Plus, Ross draws everyone like they are senior citizens 😛

  255. Avatar photo Kory says:
    February 1, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    I much prefer the style of this cover to the ones that Ross does.  I would totally buy a poster of the Superman cover.

  256. Avatar photo Ragu73 says:
    February 1, 2009 at 9:22 pm

    So does anyone else think Morrison just made final crisis happen so he could kill off Batman in the most dramatic way possible?  Cuz this didn’t do anything else for me at all.

  257. Avatar photo mikeandzod21 says:
    February 1, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    @ ragu73   the death of batman was dramatic?  cuz i got the feeling it was…inconsequential.  i cna tbelieve im saying this, but the Death of Superman had more dramatic weight to it.

     and i would also like to know why i feel so analy raped by this comic?  why does it make me soo angry that it didnt even have the decency to end with a whimper?

  258. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    February 2, 2009 at 12:10 am

    Batman didn’t die

  259. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    February 2, 2009 at 2:26 am

    The art was pretty good. Mahnke is one of my favourite artists, but this was probably the worst work I’ve ever seen from him, but only because it was obviously a rushed job. Still, Mahnke not at his best is still better than a lot of artists working today.

    PS – If Batman didn’t die … why was it called Batman R.I.P.?

  260. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    February 2, 2009 at 2:36 am

    @Wade: I think it was a swerve, just like the Embrace Change stuff by Marvel was for SI.

    We were to believe Batman would die in that story, but it wasnt really Batman who died. It was Bruce Wayne. Or at least the psychological aspect of Bruce Wayne died. He was taken to the limits mentally and almost got himself killed for getting that far in the brink of insanity. Morrison stated he wanted to do a ‘death’ story differently, and it never really was the actual death for the character; just the person inside the costume.

  261. Avatar photo mikeandzod21 says:
    February 2, 2009 at 8:50 am

    yes, becuase Batman has never stopped being Bruce Wayne before…except in the far superior Bruce Wayne Murderer/ Figutive event

  262. Avatar photo OttoBott says:
    February 2, 2009 at 10:19 am

    @mike – Dude, I really dug that storyline. The "Batman: Murderer??" storyline and the following "Bruce Wayne :  Fugative." Really good archs, I thought. They kind of weren’t any good after that (I stopped reading anyway).

  263. Avatar photo mikeandzod21 says:
    February 2, 2009 at 7:15 pm

    @ottobott  i totally agree.  if anyone wants to read one of the best prolonged run of Batman, i say check out Greg rucka’s novel of No Man’s Land and then read the comics starting with the New Gotham (Rucka on Detective and Brubaker on Batman) and read until the two or three months after Murderer/ Fugitive.  i would put that stuff right next to Year One.  and then after that go and read Gotham Central. THATS the fucking way Batman should be written!

  264. Avatar photo JedeyeSniv says:
    February 2, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    Dude yes, No Man’s Land especially is one of the best Batman stories ever, it really is stellar work. I just sat here thinking about it for five minutes, that’s how good it was.

    But I digress, having re-read it again, FC was a beautiful, messy masterpiece of comics. It was everything I love about DC compressed into a diamond-hard bullet of awesomeness shot right into my geek-brain. It made me feel like a big nerdy kid and made me believe in the sheer comsic possibilities of the DCU and storytelling again.

    Thinking about how new readers would approach the book (and always up for an experiment), I asked my long-suffering GF to read FC. The only other DCU books she reads are Batman and ‘Tec and she watched JLU so she knows lots of the characters (oh, and she read the Ollie/Dinah wedding, becuase it was pink… I know). She not only enjoyed it, but understood it pretty well all considering. She found the monitors a bit hard to get to grips with (silly names) and the Superman issues were a bit hard going for he but led to some awesome conversations about metatextuality, which to be honest is why she’s so awesome. Still, she had a great time reading it and when she finished, her summing up thoughts were along the lines of ‘well, it was just a big punch up in the end, wasn’t it? And Darkseid was awesome’

    What’s not to get? ;P 

    Also, if you feel like a giggle, check out the last issue of Tiny Titans – it’s Finals Crisis and Darkseid the lunchlady is made principal of the school. This is what my gf made me read in return, and it was awesome.

  265. Avatar photo mikeandzod21 says:
    February 2, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    it seems lately that the only person who can write DC stories anymore that are just full of awesome geekness, for me, are the books of geoff johns.  I would evenn go as far to say that FC is a book that examplifies everything i DONT like about the DCU and the Multiverse.  It cheapens everything, like BND in Spider-Man.  also, the DCU almost ends every few years that by this time its kind of old hat.  the avergage man on the street in the DCU has to be very blah to the end of the world at this point.  and i dont feel like FC changed anything, where SI did.  and that fact that half way i just got very bored with issue 7 and wanted to stop reading is a very bad sign.  i didnt even feel like that reading most of Chuck Austen’s X-Men run, and that shit was fucking terrible.  and im staring to really hate this "meta" thing.  the best way to do it like what BKV did over in "Ex Machina" last issue.  What happened to the day when people would just tell fucking stories without having to prove how fucking smart and clever you are?  i like to see something new, but i also like to be entertained.

     

  266. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    February 3, 2009 at 12:06 am

    "What happened to the day when people would just tell fucking stories without having to prove how fucking smart and clever you are?"

    That’s actually a pretty profound statement.

  267. Avatar photo GayForMoleman says:
    February 3, 2009 at 11:46 am

    Mentioning Nietzsche and Morrison in the same breath isn’t so unreasonable, given that Sebastian O was built around the ideas in Birth of Tragedy.

  268. Avatar photo mikeandzod21 says:
    February 3, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    anyone remember when this was entertainment and not fucking philosophy?   and when did writers have to start being "meta" (whatever the fuck that means) to be heralded as great and genious writers?  and theres a big deifference between having a good idea, and knowing what the fuck to do with it, and here all i see are ideas.  If Morrision wanted to tell a "meta" story, he should have done it in a creator owned book and not with the DC icons.

  269. crogdad says:
    February 4, 2009 at 12:14 am

    I just went back and read through the whole thing. I actually think it works pretty well. The reader is kind of warmed up to the fact that all of time and space is breaking down as Darkseid pulls Earth into his collapsing singularity (that’s just basic Stephen Hawking pop-physics right there). In issue #5, one of the Green Lanterns explicitly says "Get ready for time distortions." So, yeah, the last issue follows through with that warning in mind. The narrative is disjointed, but all of the pieces are there. For me, as a reader, that’s enjoyable. I already want to crack issue #1 and start over. Each time I’ll be picking up a new thread. I’m amazed that he was able to tell the story he did in seven issues. I know all the connected titles fleshed some things out, but I didn’t read any of those except Batman RIP.

    I had to look up a couple of things involving Mandrakk and the Monitors, but that’s normal for any universe-wide event (at least for me). I have to echo Ron’s sentiment from the podcast about juggling so many balls at once. Impressive indeed.

    I definitely wouldn’t hate on anyone who didn’t enjoy it. I’ve been reading Grant Morrison for years – pretty much anything he puts out. Final Crisis is a good distillation of some of his favorite themes: destruction and rebirth, the power of love, the awesomeness of Superman, excitement yet terror of the unknown, and, above all, the unique medium that is comic books. You couldn’t tell this story any other way.

  270. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    February 6, 2009 at 3:44 am

    Crap!

    Haha! I got the last word!

  271. Avatar photo OttoBott says:
    February 6, 2009 at 4:46 pm

    It just came in the mail today.

    …

    Wow. I liked everything leading up to it but this…

    this…

    I’m pretty disappointed.

  272. Avatar photo OttoBott says:
    February 6, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    You know, I will say this; as much as I hated Secret Invasion and such, at least something changed. As opposed to this, where Superman basically just built a wish machine and made everything back to normal. Oh, except Bruce Wayne is a caveman.

    *shrugs*

  273. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    February 6, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    Dang you took my last word away!

  274. Avatar photo OttoBott says:
    February 7, 2009 at 12:02 am

    Doh! Sorry. I’ll let you have that one though.

    …Doh!

    After reading it a second time it made a little bit more sense. After reading the wiki-article’s plot synopsis and then re-skimming it, it makes a little more sense. My stance on good writing though is that good writing shouldn’t necessitate online speculation and wiki-plot-summeries.

Leave a Comment