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FINAL CRISIS #6 (OF 7)


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  1. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 12, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    pfft!

  2. Avatar photo Garrett says:
    January 12, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    "DC Multiverse will never be the same again!"

    Now, where have I heard that before…? 

  3. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 12, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    @Garrett-No No, this time its different.  They promise!!

    I’m excited for this.  Can’t wait!!

  4. Avatar photo OttoBott says:
    January 12, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    *sighs*

    I am having such…a fun time with this. Looking forward to the climax.

  5. Avatar photo Hoshigaki says:
    January 12, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    Are they releasing these single character covers as posters?  If so I would want this one and the flash cover.

  6. Avatar photo cylonpete says:
    January 12, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    So, here’s my prediction how the Batman-thingy gets resolved: He kills the Joker to save something important (the Multiverse?) and thusly breaks his own code. 

    Just my 2 cents. 

    Oh, and I’m super-excited. 🙂

  7. Avatar photo TehDave says:
    January 12, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    highly anticipated. the only thing that isn’t getting me in this series is the presence of the monitor-guy; i feel like not having read countdown has me in the dark on him.

  8. Avatar photo reg5000 says:
    January 12, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    It all does sound very event-ish. But they’ve really gone down some interesting paths with this series so I can’t wait. I do have to wonder though (and I know Conor had this same conern) what is going to happen to the rest of the DC books after Final Crisis in done. That’s what I’m really hanging out for.

  9. Avatar photo biftec says:
    January 12, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    This book has been terriffic so far.  Can’t wait to read this.

  10. Avatar photo Simmons says:
    January 12, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    *hypervenilates*

  11. Avatar photo Crippler says:
    January 12, 2009 at 6:53 pm

    Morrison’s opus reaches a crescendo with this book.  Here’s hoping for all the previous notes to sync up into a glorious harmony and not fall into a clashing dischord. 

  12. Avatar photo Maceface says:
    January 12, 2009 at 7:28 pm

    "terrific"? This book is a stinkfest! Morrison is the most overrated thing to happen to comics in 9 decades. His choppy fill-in-the-blanks writing style is ridiculous. What most fans are accepting as stylistic I consider half-assed. Remember intro-body-conclusion, anyone? Sure, I love a good mystery as much as the next guy but 95% of the time, I don’t even know what Morrison is talking about because it’s so left field, so nuanced, SO alterno. Bullpucky. Let’s hope Johns is the future and The Era of Successful Got-Cs-In-English Doinks is ending. Put that into your multiverse and smoke it.

  13. Avatar photo reg5000 says:
    January 12, 2009 at 7:38 pm

    @ Maceface: Don’t sugar-coat it, tell us what you really think.

    I’m the first (well probably not, but anyway) to admit that Morrison’s style isn’t for everyone but this isn’t an essay where you need to have that kind of structure.  I imagine that this will be an awesome trade read where we won’t have to sit through delays and will be able to follow the story a little better.

  14. Avatar photo gnanniv says:
    January 12, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    Go Morrison… Forever!

  15. Avatar photo jjkish7 says:
    January 12, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    Yeah, I’m not a big fan of this series at all.  I mean, I love Carlos Pacheco, but that’s all I’m getting out of this.  I’m not a stupid person, but I think I need a re-read once it’s all done.  I think I’m most irritated at the lack of continuity in the other books, I mean, where is the devastation, doom, and gloom from Final Crisis in…say…Gotham?  Wait.  Bad example.  But you know what I mean?  Maybe not, oh well, I’ll go sulk in the comment page of another comic.

  16. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 12, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    Morisson writes things that happen very well. What he’s not so good at is writing the people to whom those things happen.

    I care about people, not things.

  17. Avatar photo gnanniv says:
    January 12, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    "Character is plot, plot is character." – F. Scott Fitzgerald

  18. phizeta564 says:
    January 12, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    RIP was a joke and so is this. Even his New X-Men was all that great in hindsight. Morrison couldn’t coherently write his way out of a paper sack.

  19. Avatar photo Maceface says:
    January 12, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    Yep, New X-Men was my first alarm bell. That was such a see-saw. Here’s Quitely who’s just so darn appealing and then there was Morrison with his wacked out, I’m-going-to-make-this-story-as-F’d-up-as-possible approach. Different strokes for different folks, I understand, but I needed to interject so that people could know that he is not everyone’s dream writer. Ok, deep breath.

  20. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 12, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    relax and enhance your calm friend.

    There…thats better 🙂

    We all know he isn’t for everybody, its stated every single time one of his issues comes out.  Its not for you, you don’t like it (at all!) and its cool.  

  21. Avatar photo DemonBoy says:
    January 12, 2009 at 8:53 pm

    Loving this series, it’s so much better than Secret Invasion, that was a huge disappointment because they refused to take it in any different directions.  Morrison at least tries new things and keeps me interested in comics.  Secret Invasion was going well and had potential when all of a sudden Reed shows up with his "plot device firing" gun and then it was just EVERYBODY FIGHT!

    I can’t wait for this next issue and then I’m looking forward to sitting down with all of the issues and a beer and taking in the whole story.

  22. Avatar photo reg5000 says:
    January 12, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    Yeah, the Invasion collapsing into a melee was pretty poor given that the basis for the series was basically super espionage.

    I think we can all walk away from this conversation confident that Morrison is definately not everyone’s cup of tea.

  23. flapjaxx says:
    January 12, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    @reg5000: Yeah, it’s more like a "cup of tea that", after you’ve taken the first sip, the guy who served it to you reveals was laced with a new experimental hallucinagenic compound.

    I like it, though. I was just rereading FC 4 and 5 (my least favorite issues thus far), and was struck by how even in these issues there’s so much to think about. You can just contemplate so many of the little moments and analyze the mystery that’s going on, who knows what and why, etc, how things fit together. The thing is that it requires some thought, though, and the narrative flow is purposely disjunctive or whatever. Clearly not everyone’s cup of tea. The dialogue is awkward, but I think it’s usually awkward in a way that makes it stand out and make the weird ideas more prominent.

    My new favorite laff from the last issue: the monkey saying "As it turns out, there’s a magical minimum number of moves you can solve a Rubik Cube with, I bet you never wanted to know that." I read that again and thought of it as a parallel with how Morrison throws in these crazy obscure (pseudo?)scientific ideas that readers never actually wanted to encounter. But he shoves ’em in there anyway.

    Prediction: Batman tries to shoot the god-killer bullet to kill Darkseid, but the bullet is redirected back through time…and it was BATMAN who unknowingly shot Orion, as seen in FC 1.

  24. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 12, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    Prediction: Dan Didio stutters a lot in interviews after this.

  25. Avatar photo reg5000 says:
    January 12, 2009 at 9:56 pm

    @flapjaxx: You just broke my mind 🙁

  26. edward says:
    January 12, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    i literally could not care less about this piece of shit

  27. Avatar photo Kory says:
    January 12, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    I’ve been among the Morrison haters on this website, but I’m actually enjoying this.  Go figure.

  28. Avatar photo reg5000 says:
    January 12, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    @Kory: It’s a trap, get out while you still can!

  29. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 12, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    People sure arent going to like the fact that Superman Beyond is a factor for this issue. Which means I need to read that too since I heard it’s pure Morrison. Which also means that it confuses the hell out of the majority of the public.

    I’ve been loving the hell out of this series. This and RIP are some of the best peices of comic literaure I’ve read in a long time. Morrison wants you to think and he wants you to figure out how the story will end before it comes out. I cant wait to see how Morrison ‘kills’ Batman in this issue.

  30. Avatar photo thefreakygeeky says:
    January 12, 2009 at 11:34 pm

    you guys tell me if Im bitching for nothing, but do these painted covers look like regular guys in costumes, rather thanheroic figures like alex ross?  im not syaing ross is the only guy allowed to paint heros, but these covers just look weord.  maybe its just me.

  31. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 13, 2009 at 12:03 am

    @thefreakygeeky-You’re bitching for nothing. 😛

    I’m sure that DC wanted them to look like that for a reason.  Plus I always thought Ross’ guys looked too robotic.  These are more fluid and human like to me.

  32. Avatar photo Conor Kilpatrick (@cskilpatrick) says:
    January 13, 2009 at 12:44 am

    Yeah, these covers have been uniformly fantastic.

  33. Avatar photo coleman says:
    January 13, 2009 at 1:40 am

    Bring it on! I also enjoy those covers.

  34. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 13, 2009 at 2:06 am

    So … am I an idiot to still be expecting some type of satisfaction/resolution to Batman RIP in this?

    @MaceFace — You said: "His choppy fill-in-the-blanks writing style is ridiculous. What most fans are accepting as stylistic I consider half-assed."

    I totally agree with the first sentence, but I think it’s the opposite for the second. I don’t think it’s half-assed, I think he tries TOO hard. Tries to cram in too many ideas/concepts, where they don’t fit. To the point where it either makes sense to only a minority of readers, or they enjoy that it doesn’t make sense, or people get frustrated as hell that it isn’t clearly written (I’m in this category). 

  35. Avatar photo WinTheWonderboy says:
    January 13, 2009 at 2:11 am

    IMO, All of the JG Jones covers have been fantastic.

  36. Avatar photo miyamotofreak says:
    January 13, 2009 at 4:29 am

    If this isn’t the best issue of FC yet, then color me extremely disappointed. And it looks like we’ll get #7 in two weeks!

  37. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 13, 2009 at 9:36 am

    Anyone know when Final Crisis will start tie into the regular DCU books?

  38. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 13, 2009 at 9:51 am

    @WadeWilson-All the books should see the impact as soon as Final Crisis finishes up.  Maybe a week or two afterwards

  39. Avatar photo marvelzombie says:
    January 13, 2009 at 11:07 am

    The only Final Crisis book I’m getting other than the main title is the story with the Legion and Superman Prime (how could I not).  As I’ve been reading, I feel like I’m missing a lot of what’s going on.  There doesn’t seem to be a cohesive line from book to book in the main title so I have a feeling of being a little lost.  I get the basic premise of what is going on, and I will refrain of judgement untill I read issue #7.  For those who are in the loop, is there anything else I should be reading to fill in the gaps and give me a better picture of what’s going on?

  40. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 13, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    @Marvelzombie-From what I have heard, Revelations does a good job of filling in the gaps.  You’ll need someone else to confirm that though, since I’m not reading it.  Plus I hear nothing but good things about that series

  41. Avatar photo Kimbo says:
    January 13, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    I had to reread the first five issues for this one- great series so far.

  42. Avatar photo Maceface says:
    January 13, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    WadeWilson: understood. I also agree with Conor that the covers are great. My God, what’s wrong with me? Did the killer bullet travel back in time and destroy the grouchy grumbly me leaving only this benign Silver Age Maceface? Say it ain’t so!

  43. Avatar photo mikeandzod21 says:
    January 13, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    cant wait.

  44. Avatar photo Spoons says:
    January 14, 2009 at 2:30 am

    Picking them up right after class.

  45. Avatar photo cman12 says:
    January 14, 2009 at 2:51 am

    What an amazing cover.

  46. flapjaxx says:
    January 14, 2009 at 11:55 am

    I find it amusing that the instant we’re able to rate comics here, someone made sure to give this issue a "1" at like 10:15am (must’ve gotten to a comic shop real early, read this in an awful hurry, and raced online). Just like as soon as this page opened on Monday someone who isn’t even reading this made sure to come in and write "pfft" so that’d be the nice comment everyone else had to look at. *rolls eyes*

  47. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 14, 2009 at 11:59 am

    @flapjaxx-Yeah, its a sad aspect of the internet.  People do stupid stuff just to be stupid.  Being a troll is still all the rage, it seems.

  48. Avatar photo bryanpittard says:
    January 14, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    I loved this issue, particularly the ending.  I felt it was very appropriate to the characters, and leaves several doors open for the future.  I’m really excited to see Morrison weaving a new fabric for DC out of the existing characters, and breathing new life and relevance into Kirby’s New Gods.  I was skeptical, particularly with Mister Miracle, but now I’m sold!

  49. Avatar photo brassai2003 says:
    January 14, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    Just read it. oofff…where to begin. I won’t spoil it for anyone, but the first thing that came to head at the end was to boycott all upcoming Bat titles. I’ve been reading Crisis on the racks. I haven’t bought a copy, but I picked this up cuz I’m a Bat fan. Weathered through the now (after reading FC 6) POINTLESS RIP series, LAST RITES and now this. I really think that there needs to be a message sent to DiDio. I’m NOT a hater. There are some things, like GL that rock @ DC. But this Batman run has been bloody aweful. I’m boycotting any further Bat books. If this is as "final" as the last panel, then what’s the point? Who cares about a "Battle for the Cowl". A Batman comic without Batman is not Batman. Damn it. I’m pissed. And any Bat fan should be too. They dragged that RIP series out from like last summer. FOR THIS? Screw you Dan. and Screw DC.

  50. Avatar photo DemonBoy says:
    January 14, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    Awesome story!  Although the art is definitely all over the place. The last few issues didn’t seem as bad even with the multiple artists.  Anyway, story was fast paced and awesome, plus the last page is my new desktop background.

  51. Avatar photo robbydzwonar says:
    January 14, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    The last page has been my desktop background for a minute now.  LOL! 

    But anyway, this issue of Final Crisis made about as much sense to me as the other issues I read once and immediately put in the recycling bin.  I know I’m not a genius or anything, but I have always been smart enough to understand what is going on in a comic book, until now anyway!!  But from what I see, it looks as if Batman shoots the Darkseid guy with some special gun and bullet that had been referenced somewhere else (don’t remember where exactly), and then there are all these electric like beams fliying all over the place, Batman just so happens to get the shit shocked out of him, and then I see Superman carrying what is left of him on the very last page of the story, not the Battle For The Cowl full page thing that is now my desktop background.  Some this is where Batman dies, I’m guessing?  Pretty lame!!  The Death of Superman was a hell of a lot better story, DC.  What happened to you guys?!

  52. Avatar photo Kory says:
    January 14, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    Thanks for the spoiler warning!

    Note to self, avoid this site on your Wednesday lunch break.

  53. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 14, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    @Flap: "pfft" refers to the sollicitation copy making me spit out my tea almost all over my screen. Please refrain from judging me on the basis of one comment.

  54. Avatar photo AlexG says:
    January 14, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    Reading this is like looking into the mouth of madness

  55. Avatar photo Parker says:
    January 14, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    So DC REALLY needs to get a kick in the ass for scheduling. Both the second issue of the FC Superman issue and the rest of FC Legion of 3 Worlds should have come out before this. I have no reason to buy the second Supes issue now since he says in one bubble what it is about.

  56. Avatar photo AMuldowney says:
    January 14, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    I just read this issue. I loved it.  It broke my brain.

  57. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 14, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    Loved every single moment of this issue. I dont know who this Tiger character is, but other then him I had no problem following the story.

    Grant Morrison also did, what I thought was, the most impossible thing to do. I guess we cant spoil anything just yet for this issue on here but….That last page…..made me pissed off and love Grant Morrison all in one.

  58. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 14, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    !!!Spoilers galore in this comment!!!!

    I know some of will retort that the movies have no effect on the comics. But I’ll go ahead and voice my opinion anyway. A potential new reader (not necessarily new to comics but new to Batman comics) curious to get into Batman after the movie was first likely put off by the emigmatic style of Morisson’s writing and now there’s no Batman for that reader to follow.

    I think it was not unwise for DC to tell this sort of story but I do think the timing was waaaay off. The Dark Knight movie may or may not have affected the future sales of Batman. But now, because of the nature of this event, we’ll never if it could have had the story been more noob-friendly.

    I know I know!

    …but still.

  59. Avatar photo cylonpete says:
    January 14, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    Loved, loved, loved the issue. Even though the last page was spoiled for me by my best friend in the shop! Well, you can’t have everything, can you?

  60. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 14, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    @JJ-Its already the consensus around the internet that DC screwed things up with TDK and making accessible Batman books.

    @robbydzwonar-Batman states that the bullet he got was the one that was taken out of Orion when he was doing the autopsy.  Sure, hard to believe you can reuse a bullet, but thats where it came from.  And the "electric beams" were shot from Darkseid’s eyes.  Presumably they went crazy after he was shot and thats why they raced all over the place.

    Have to say this is probably my favorite of all the issues.  I got confused in the splash page with Metron, Hawkman and all that.  It was a very poorly structured layout.  Otherwise I think it flowed smoothly for my taste and was just pure excitement.  This is the sort of penultimate issue we need!!

    Sad about Bats, but I am giving DC the benefit of the doubt that they will do right by the Batman legacy.  Saying that there is no Batman book without Batman is just retarded.  If done right, the mantle can be passed sucessfully.

    Also I agree the art was wonky at times.  Loved and hated that last page

  61. PatK says:
    January 14, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    All I can say is that Grant Morrison F’ING DELIVERED! The events and fights that took place in this issue were breathtaking, nothing short of OUTSTANDING! I

    can’t put this issue down, I’ve read it at least 3 times since picking it up from my lcs. Yay Final Crisis!!!

  62. Avatar photo Spooky says:
    January 14, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    If I ever see Grant Morrison, I’m going to kiss him on the cheek and run away like a little schoolgirl.

  63. Avatar photo bryanpittard says:
    January 14, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS!

     

    @drakedangerz The beams are Darkseid’s Omega Effect (aka Omega Sanction).  What’s useful about them is that they’ve done many different things over the years, even when Kirby first introduced them.  They don’t simply kill you, which could explain why Morrison said that Batman would meet a fate worse than death. 

    Check out this panel from The New Gods Vol. 1

  64. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 14, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    @bryanpittard-Ahh, thanks!  I knew there had to be more to that!  My New Gods knowledge is pathetic.  So many ways that Morrison and DC can take that then. 

    P.S.  I knew nothing about Tawky Tawny until I picked up Final Crisis.  That being said, this guy kicks major amounts of ass.  All hail Tawky Tawny!!

  65. Avatar photo Parker says:
    January 14, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    *SPOILERS*

     

     

     

     

    I don’t buy it. I know we saw a burning corpse but with the introduction of a machine at the beginning of the issue that can do whatever you THINK, I’m sure Bruce Wayne will be back, probably fairly soon. I have no doubt we will have a new Batman for awhile and that Bruce may pass on the mantle for a bit, but there just seems to be too many ways out of this placed in the story.

     Also, is there a single city in the world that is not on fire and turned to rubble? Are we going to have another World War Hulk where major cities are completely broken apart only to be pristine next month?

  66. Avatar photo BoldCoffee says:
    January 14, 2009 at 5:54 pm

    Wow is all I can say after putting this one down.  I am not sure where DC is taking this ride but this book delivered on the story BIG time.  The art was a little odd at times but man what a ride.

  67. Templar says:
    January 14, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    @Parker – You should read up on what the omega sanction actually does.

  68. Avatar photo FACE says:
    January 14, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    I’m just not fanboy enough to jump in the wagon and praise Morrison. It’s true, this issue’s got much to offer if you can make sense of it, but the delivery’s enough to induce vertigo! Great, he’s making readers think. Unfortunately, it’s not the implications of the story I’m thinking about, but, rather, trying to piece one panel/page to the next.  

  69. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 14, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    So….what does the Omega Sanction do to a person? If it doesnt kill them, then what is it like purgatory to a person? Like they are in extreme pain forever and are frozen in time or something…..Morrison may not (or yet) reference what truely happen to Batman but I’m more confused about these beams then what Morrison actually wrote here. lol

  70. Templar says:
    January 14, 2009 at 7:28 pm

    The Omega Sanction is basically a beam that kills him, takes his soul and makes it live an infinite number of lives every split second. And every time the pain and suffering of the life gets worse and worse, for all eternity.

    So the body is dead.  The soul is not. Like I said in my review, he’s like Sam beckett from Quantum Leap.  Except every leap sucks worse and worse.

  71. Avatar photo Kimbo says:
    January 14, 2009 at 7:33 pm

    @Templar- That’s really neat, I never knew that about the beams, I thought he was just cripsy-fried.

    So I was pissed when I put it down, but then again I realized that’s the emotion they wanted to get from me and got to say, job well done.  I miss him already which is the point.    

  72. Templar says:
    January 14, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    BatGod is out there, fighting for his soul.

  73. Avatar photo stuclach says:
    January 14, 2009 at 7:51 pm

    Spoilers

    HOLY SHIT?!?!?

    That looked pretty final.  He certainly didn’t become one with the speed force.  Not being a New God savant I don’t know if anyone has ever come back from the Omega Beam.  Have they?  Or perhaps more importantly: has anyone who isn’t a "god" come back?

    Does this mean that we will see Bruce sporting a Black Lantern Ring?  That would be one formidable opponent.

  74. Avatar photo speaknspell says:
    January 14, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    I’m actually enjoying this a lot.  the fact that my time put into reading all the wikipedia entries on the New Gods last year seems justified because I look at this and, while it feels jumbled, still makes a decent amount of sense. 

    The implications with Batman are intriguing too because I think the story of how he gets back from wherever the hell he is now could be very cool. 

    On a lighter note, I’m a Mary Marvel fan (spoiler) and I’m glad they didn’t kill her off like I was afraid of.

  75. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 14, 2009 at 8:15 pm

    @Templar: Thank you for the explaination. Plus those beams are fucking awesome! That’s waaaay too much power for one individual, but hey it’s Darkseid so I guess it’s okay for him to have those beams. But that idea of Bruce Wayne’s soul getting tortured til the end of days….God that just screams Morrison.

    I’m guessing that if we want the real Batman to come back….it’s gonna be either a ‘magic’ type of journal to get his soul back. Or we get (hopefully a better) Countdown situation where we need to go to other multiverses to find him. Either way that is a great way to take out Batman, without making it a cliche death like in RIP.

  76. Avatar photo AlexG says:
    January 14, 2009 at 8:26 pm

    SPOILERS:

     

    Come on, do we REALLY think Wayne is dead?

     

  77. Avatar photo Hoshigaki says:
    January 14, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    SPOILERS:

     

    Bats is back in one year or right before the next movie.  Count on it.

  78. Avatar photo Spoons says:
    January 14, 2009 at 8:56 pm

    I’m waiting to see how #7 wraps up to rate this.  I have no idea how this is going to wrap up in one issue though. 

    !Spoilers!

     

    @TheNextChampion:  Ya this is a perfect "death" for Batman, because it isn’t really a death at all.

  79. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 14, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    @Spoons: It’s a psychical death for Batman, but it certainly isnt the full end of him either.

  80. Eitanman says:
    January 14, 2009 at 9:04 pm

     SPOILERS!

     

    This is by far the best issue of this story so far.  I wrote that I wanted to see a body after the last issue of RIP and I guess I got it.  Now that I’ve got it I think I might cry.

  81. Avatar photo Parker says:
    January 14, 2009 at 9:21 pm

    Thanks for the explanation Templar, I think that may actually help my case.

    Bruce won in RIP because he’s always prepared (Otherwise known as the "I didn’t really have a good way for him to win" excuse") so he could have been prepared for this.

    Or…

    So Bruces soul is being tortured worse and worse infinitely? What is that like a zit on high school picture day for him?

    Seriously though, as much as every writer, especially Morrison, screams the fact that he tortures himself endlessly already the Omega sanction may have been the WORST weapon to use on him.

     

  82. Avatar photo CGPO says:
    January 14, 2009 at 9:26 pm

    Batman’s death in FC #6 kind of made the whole RIP storyline useless.  What was the point of it as none of it affected FC?  The only thing I can think of is that it was Morrison’s thesis for how Batman can return.  Batman thinks of every possibility, so he probably knew Darkseid would use the Omega Beams to "kill" him.  So either he knows what happens and hopes someone brings him back a la "Search for Spock" or maybe that dead body at the end isn’t him?  Or maybe he transferred his consciousness to that empty shell he was hooked up to earlier, again a la "Search for Spock".  So yeah, that’s my two cents, RIP was pure set-up for how they’ll bring Bruce back eventually.

  83. Avatar photo cyberauron says:
    January 14, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    batman will be reborn as a new god……its so crazy it may work

  84. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 14, 2009 at 9:38 pm

    DC should never have advertise RIP in the way that it was ‘the Death of Batman’. Clearly when you read that arc, and the two last rites issues, he was no way intending for Bruce to die at that moment. He was showing in that arc how resourceful Batman is and how he is the world’s greatest detective. Plus he was also trying to prove just how low Bruce Wayne could go in terms of his mental state.

    That was all a preamble for what Morrison did here for Bruce. He psychically took him to the brink of death in RIP, but in Final Crisis he ultimately killed him to a fate worse then death.

    If I can take away from Batman’s outcome in this issue; I loved that Mary Marvel/Supergirl fight. I laughed out loud when Mary said ‘Slut!’ to Supergirl. Plus I just think it’s a great setup that now Mary can never be a Marvel member anymore and now presumably Freddie cant be Captain Marvel anymore. At least I think the latter of that sentence is true; I’m not sure. But it would be a great and sad way to see how the Marvel family got wiped out there.

  85. Avatar photo AlexG says:
    January 14, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    It just doesn’t feel like an appropriate end for Batman-it’s too bizzare Sci Fi–compare with Caps’ death which really fit within the context of the character…he’ll be back.

  86. Avatar photo TehDave says:
    January 14, 2009 at 9:52 pm

    simply fantastic.

  87. Avatar photo DocSamson says:
    January 14, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    As a Bat-fan since forever I’ve gotta say that I really really can’t stand most "cosmic" storylines involving the character. Same with Spider-man. I feel like DC is headed towards a One More Day cop-out when they bring him back, and that’s gonna suck.

  88. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 14, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    All I know is that reading this is more painful then eating a fudgesicle in half a bite

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vet4QDkQzEo&feature=related

    🙂

  89. Avatar photo mulletpeep says:
    January 14, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    This is total Jack Kirby porn.

    and i fucking love it.

  90. Avatar photo brassai2003 says:
    January 14, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    We got played. Plain and simple. This book in NO WAY ties in with RIP. Not even a Batmite appearance. Batman making his way through the FC world would have been fine. I have a sneaking suspicion that DiDio and Morrison disagreed tremendously on the demise of Batman and it was changed. Hence the cop-out Crime Story ending to RIP. And then a brief exchange with Alfred next issue "they buried me, tried to blah blah blah…"

    I’m sorry, but this whole FC thing makes no sense. the continuity is all F’ed up.  The world ending Anti-life equasion is only in ONE BOOK. there’s no sense of importance and danger in any other book. In the bat books, he’s just "gone." Surely Nightwing or Robin would have known that Bruce was investigating the death of a new god. It’s not like the Joker just showing up.. IT’S THE DEATH OF A GOD! 

    As to new readers…fergit it! My grrl just started reading Year one. When she heard that Bruce "died" I hung my head and sighed. There’s no way I can explain this to her, as a new reader. 

    Sorry Dan, ya lost another long time reader of Batman. 

  91. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 14, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    You know it’s weird, cause I mentioned this in my review for Batman #683. If RIP did happen, and Bruce got out of the helicopter crash. Why didnt he go to Tim, Dick, and Barbara to say he was alright before he went to the Batcave with Alfred? I would think his family would be more important then his work……okay I had to punch myself because we all know that is false.

    But still, it seems like the RIP aftermaths in Batman, Detective Comics, Robin, and Nightwing seem to comment on RIP and not Final Crisis. So is this bad editorial decisions by DC or did Morrison also confuse all the writers for the Bat titles? Or did RIP not actual happen?….

    ….I need to lie down for a bit.

  92. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 14, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    Simplicity is under-rated. It sure is.

  93. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 15, 2009 at 12:11 am

    @brassai2003-No one ever said that FC tied into RIP.  FC #6 shows the final fate of Bruce Wayne, its always been billed that way. 

    And if anyone was expecting a simple Grant Morrison story, especially as an event, smack yourselves in the face until you pass out.  Thats just being naive.

    After re-reading I realized a few things.  One, I really don’t care about Montoya.  I think its because I am not reading Revelations and I never really got into Gotham Central.  Two, Libra’s "death" was a cop out. And Three, why o why is the rest of the batfamily no where to be seen?  Oracle was in it, Catwoman and Batwoman were too…what about the men?  Nightwing at the very least should have gotten in on this.

    I give Mahnke credit for a phenominal final page.  Whether you liked the issue or not, you have to give the guy credit for ending it with a bang

  94. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 15, 2009 at 12:15 am

    @Drake: I believe Morison called on Libra’s death as lame with Dr. Sivana saying:

    ‘Hmmph. And that’s a classic ‘we havent heard the last of him’ if I ever saw one’.

    So Morrison definitely coped out to that.

  95. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 15, 2009 at 12:27 am

    http://www.wizarduniverse.com/011409batmandead.html

    G-Mo talks on killing the Bat!

  96. Avatar photo CGPO says:
    January 15, 2009 at 12:38 am

    Is it just me or has there been no mainstream press coverage of the death of Batman?  I wonder if that’s kind of telling how "dead" he really is?  Morrison even mentions in the Wizard interview we haven’t seen the last of Bruce Wayne.

  97. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 15, 2009 at 1:33 am

    @CGPO-I attribute it to the fact that all the news outlets claimed that Batman died at the end of RIP.  If they print this, they would have to retract the previous story.  And try explaining THIS crazy ass story to a regular joe reading a news paper.  I dare you!

  98. Avatar photo Gabe says:
    January 15, 2009 at 1:36 am

    Spoilers

     

     

     

    So, does this issue make RIP look like almost a practical joke that morrison was playing?  I mean, I really liked RIP, but it seems like it’s climax is really lackluster compared to this… 

  99. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 15, 2009 at 1:42 am

    @Gabe-Practial joke?  How so?

  100. Avatar photo Dan says:
    January 15, 2009 at 1:58 am

    Great marketing opportunity – get all the Spidey Obama people to pick this one up as well.

    Comic Shop Guy – "Here’s another book you may find interesting. Batman dies in this issue."

    Fairweather customer – "Didn’t they do that just a few weeks ago?" 

    Comic Shop Guy – "Yes, but this time it’s for real."

    Fairweather customer – (rolls eyes) "Just give me my piece of hipster pop culture that’ll be forgotten and worthless in a month." 

    Comic Shop Guy – "That’ll be $75 for the Spider-Man." 

  101. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 15, 2009 at 2:35 am

    btw, I didn’t expect a simple story from G-Mo, I was making an observation about the underrated-ness of simplicity. Please people, the sideways insinuations… *shudder*

  102. Avatar photo Ipitythefool says:
    January 15, 2009 at 5:14 am

    Oh man, Batman is sooooo showing up in blackest night! Can’t wait!

     Oh also, I couldn’t really tell because the art was all over the place, but I thought Libra just disappered ala Obi-won. Lex hit him but all that was left was his cloak.

  103. Avatar photo Kory says:
    January 15, 2009 at 8:13 am

    Has anyone else noticed how things have gotten a bit snarky on this website lately like I have?  Telling someone to smack themselves in the face until they pass out because they made an observation that you don’t agree with is a little uncalled for.  Let’s try to be a little nicer to each other folks.

  104. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 15, 2009 at 11:15 am

    Yu guys need to relax, that was a joke.  If you get upset because people don’t understand when you tell a joke and insinuate something else about you, then you turn around and do the same thing, thats being quite hypocritical.  And second of all, if you give a short 5 word comment about anything, don’t expect everyone to understand what you’re talking about, then get upset when they don’t.  Speak clearly.

  105. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 15, 2009 at 11:28 am

    OK wait, I’m sorry for soudning pissy.  On top of the fact that I’m hungery, I didn’t get much sleep.  I hope you forgive me and welcome me back with open arms 😛

  106. Avatar photo Kory says:
    January 15, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    @drakedangerz- To me, it seems like you get offended whenever I, JumpingJupiter or anyone else post criticisms of Grant Morrison.  For some reason you take it as though we are insulting you personally for liking him, which is not the case at all.  If you like his style fine, but don’t take it personally when someone else doesn’t. 

  107. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 15, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    @Kory-Sorry if that seems the case, but its not true at all.  I hardly love all of Morrison’s work, or defend it to the death.  The post I have made here were to clarify the questions that some people had about the issue or the series.  If you go back and read them, I think that is pretty clear.  Sorry if that makes it seem like I am defending his work, I’m just trying to help people try to understand it.  As I stated in my second post, and numerous times in the last month or so, I already know its not for everyone. 

  108. Avatar photo Kory says:
    January 15, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    @drake- I just have noticed that since the RIP finale there has been a lot of this back and forth between the Morrison supporters and the Morrison haters, and I wish it would stop so this place could go back to being fun.  You really aren’t doing anything wrong, I just used your comment as an example of what I’ve been noticing lately here the past month or so, I didn’t mean for it to come off like I was singling you out.  I apologize if it seemed that way.

  109. ntn1015 says:
    January 15, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    I don’t know why I bother reading Morrison’s stuff when it comes out. It makes no sense in issue form. I had to sit down with a pad and paper and re-read RIP to keep straight all of the secondary characters and what role they played in the series. I finished and I guess it made sense, but it was just seemed to be unnecessarily complicated just to be different. Can’t he tell a good story without some big convoluted twisted mess. It’s like he throws all of his ideas in a bowl and they get all twisted up and by the end he’s unraveled them and about 2/3 of the spaghetti was unnecessary to the story.

     Looks like I’ll be getting my pad and paper out again and try to untwist this tangled piece of crap to see if I can figure out if it was good or not…

  110. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 15, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    @Kory- Agreed.  I have had enough G-Mo books to last me a while.  Yet if things go as planned, we get Superman Beyone #2 next week (which I completley don’t understand or very much liked the 1st issue, so that should be a hoot) and then FC #7 the following week.  We’re almost done with it all!

  111. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 15, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    I’m with you Kory and Drake. I know have been overly adamant in the past a reactionary tactic. But if you read the bulk of my posts, you will notice that I have been looking at this entire debacle with increased objectivity. I’ll do my best to not impute bad motives your comments Drake.

    My main opinions remain:

    #1: complex/enigmatic/flashy does not necessarily equal sophisticated/good nor does simple/straight-forward necessarily equal dumbed down/crass commercialism. There is some confusion about this floating around this subject and it frustrates me. A lot.

    #2: I have found (in RIP. I didn’t read the last issue of FC) that G-Mo is exceellent at weaving epic events but has ignored the people those events occur to. I like people, not stuff happening.

    I don’t think those views are unfair. And I do think these stories have suffered more from foggy marketing than anything else actually.

  112. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 15, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    Now let’s all hold hands and sing kumbaya.

  113. Avatar photo sunhero says:
    January 15, 2009 at 5:04 pm

    This all ready one of my all time favourite events draws masterfully on the last forty years of Kirby inspired dc history.

  114. Avatar photo sunhero says:
    January 15, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    Batman’s death was beautifully done there is no honour in refusing to brake an oath if keeping that oath it hurts people.

  115. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 15, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    Group hug!!!

  116. Avatar photo rayclark says:
    January 15, 2009 at 7:56 pm

    wow batman dying huh? is that what RIP was or was that something different? im confused now.

    @sunhero agreed how you depicted batmans death

  117. Avatar photo Muady says:
    January 15, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    Batman: RIP was about the end of Batman conceptually.

  118. Captkey3s says:
    January 15, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    Spoilers……..

     

     

    First Cap now Batman. I love this and absolutely hate this at the same time.

  119. Avatar photo Simmons says:
    January 15, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    SPOILER WARNING

    **************************

     

     

    Does this mean Batman is going to be a Black Lantern?

     

    *****************

  120. Avatar photo DocSamson says:
    January 15, 2009 at 9:57 pm

    @Captkey3s: Kinda makes you wonder if that’s a little coincidence doesn’t it? Except the "death" of Cap made sense.

  121. Avatar photo cyberauron says:
    January 15, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    batman will become a new god and fix the world

  122. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 16, 2009 at 1:15 am

    I’d say I’m a big a Batman fan as anyone on this site or anywhere else, & that last page didn’t affect me in the slightest. I’m not a cold-hearted bastard (all the time) or anything, but my thoughts were too occupied with trying to figure out what I just read & how it tied into RIP … plus, we all know death in comics is about as permanent as a 75 year old man’s erection.

    Can someone who speaks fluent Morrsison-ese explain if RIP actually happened? & how it all led to Batman being captured by Darkseid’s minions in the last couple of Batman issues & the Lump character? I think it was something about using Batman to make a clone army (that term brings back bad memories) & all the clones died? If someone can clarify all this, that’d be cool. Thanks.

    By the way, I thought this issue was OK. But, just like with all the artists, there is too much goin’ on for my tastes & some type of central focus or main character would be nice. The part where the talking tiger with the bow tie gutted the other talking tiger was pretty fucked up. Like an R-rated kid’s picture book.

  123. Avatar photo BORN says:
    January 16, 2009 at 1:17 am

    i have no idea whats going on here. Morrison without quietly is just confusing

  124. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 16, 2009 at 1:50 am

    @WadeWilson-um…I’ll try my best.  And I am no expert, so I could easily be corrected.

    I think RIP did indeed happen.  That story was supposed to show the mental breakdown of Batman.  Some how, Bats gets back to the Batcave after RIP.  Its not exactly clear how he goes back and no one seems to notice, just Alfred knows.  Then Orion is killed and he goes to investigate.  In Final Crisis #2, Batman is captured by the Alpha Lantern that is possesd by Granny Goodness.  From there, he is put into the machine to make a clone army of him.  Thats where the two guys and the lump play in.  They were going to steal Bat’s memories and everything he has been through in order to create exact clones, an unstoppable army.  Problem was, they underestimated Bats and he fought back, causing him to break free and destroy the clones (because they couldn’t handle all the stress that Bats has been through) Flash forward to Final Crisis #6, Bats is out of the machine and goes to meet up with Darkseid and ruin his shit.  And thats where the "death" occurs.  I don’t think he really died.  Or at the very least, I am going to wait until issue #7 ships before I draw my conclusion.

    Hope that helps. 🙂

  125. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 16, 2009 at 4:29 am

    @drake — Thanks, mate. That is roughly what I assumed happened. When the stories were all released out of continuity it makes it kinda hard to keep up with, when the story is already something that reads as if it was written by Starman from JSA.

    One part I’m lost on (one of many) is where you said: "Problem was, they underestimated Bats and he fought back, causing him to break free and destroy the clones (because they couldn’t handle all the stress that Bats has been through) Flash forward to Final Crisis #6, Bats is out of the machine and goes to meet up with Darkseid and ruin his shit." — Was this stuff shown, or just explained? I don’t remember seeing Bats a) escape from the machine or b) fight an army of clones.

  126. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 16, 2009 at 4:32 am

    Just to clarify — when I said the stories were released "out of continuity", I meant the story was released out of order.

  127. Indycwf says:
    January 16, 2009 at 7:13 am

    I love RIP and Final Crisis plus Morrison but there is no way that the current story order was what Morrison had in mind at the beginning. There has been some type of conflict internally at DC about how these stories should have played out. The cross-over between the  Batman books and Final Crisis was in no way indicated at the start. These were two separate projects which are now completely connected. The FC trades will have to combined at least Batman 682 and 683 to help an already complex story.  

  128. Avatar photo Parker says:
    January 16, 2009 at 9:47 am

    @Wade

    Batman never actually fought the clones, they kinda just broke down because of all the traumatic stuff he had been through and they couldn’t handle it. The last two Batman issues written by Morrison (682 and 83 I think) is where this stuff happens.

  129. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 16, 2009 at 9:54 am

    @WadeWilson-I had to flip out my copy of #683 to find out for sure!!  But yeah, in the third to last page of that issue the lump goes ape shit and starts to trash the area where the clones are and where Bats is.  Its only 2 panels, but it shows some of the clones falling out of their tanks.  3 pages before that, he convinces the lump to help him escape from the machine.  And on the 15th page or so, it shows the clones not being able to handle Bats stress.  Its on the page where Bats says "What.Do.You.Deserve?"  So a combination of those two is how I think he was able to beat the clones.  Then, again on the 3rd to last page, the last two panels show Bats in the machine and waking up.  At that point I am assuming he got out and the next time we see him is FC #6.  Hope that makes sense.  I realize I jump around a lot.

    @Indycwf-Morrison’s interviews, the one he just did with Wizard and one he did with IGN back in August, say that the connection has been there from the start.

  130. Avatar photo WinTheWonderboy says:
    January 16, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    That was a fantastic comic. I’m more shocked that Batman used a handgun then him being Omega Beamed.

  131. Avatar photo Kory says:
    January 16, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    I just re-read issues 1-6, and I will say it helps to read Final Crisis in one sitting if you have some confusion about what’s happening.

  132. Avatar photo Tiocore says:
    January 16, 2009 at 2:01 pm

    @conor i believe a while back i sent an e-mail speculating the death of batman. did i call it or what!?!? not that it matters but this issue was great!!!!

  133. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 16, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    The last line Batman states, I know a lot of people hate on it.

    To me, saying ‘Gotcha’ shows two things. It gives Bruce a sense of humor, and that makes him more human and sympathetic. But what else can you say when you pretty much kill evil personified? If he did kill Darkseid, then I dont know what other thing you could say that would make sense. What one word would be better to kill evil personified then ‘Gotcha’?

  134. Avatar photo gnanniv says:
    January 16, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    Did Shilo Norman get mis-colored as a white guy or is Shilo somwhere else and another guy is in the Mister Miracle outfit?

  135. Avatar photo Conor Kilpatrick (@cskilpatrick) says:
    January 16, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    @Tio: You would have called it if he were dead.

  136. Avatar photo Tiocore says:
    January 16, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    @conor ah, just read the difference between the omega sanction and the omega effect on good ol’ wikipedia. how awesome of a story does that sound? batman (bruce wayne) being transported through progressively worse realities? fun stuff.

  137. Avatar photo cyberauron says:
    January 16, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    i’m going to be a bad guy and say i dont think batman killed darkseid. i think he stopped darkseid or severley wound him, since the bullet is poisoniousi believe the flashes will take out darkseid

  138. Avatar photo Spoons says:
    January 16, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    @cyberauron: Ya, I think Darkseid’s consciousness has expanded out into the human populace, which is why Turpin’s body didn’t/isn’t break/ing down, a la Boss Dark Side.  

  139. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 17, 2009 at 12:13 am

    @Parker & drake — Thanks guys. That helps for sure. I will have to go back & re-read those Batman issues. I kinda read them at light speed when they came out because I was pretty tired of the convoluted, choppy, all over the place story telling & those issues just took it to another level. Also, not knowing what was real & what was a dream was annoying to me & I didn’t take much in … & don’t worry about your explainations jumping around all over the place, drake — it suits the comics you were explaining perfectly! lol.

    I think I finally worked out what RIP means … even though Batman didn’t die in RIP, & even now his "death" seems incomplete (only his body is dead?), I’m guessing it’s the character of Batman that is Resting In Peace. By that I mean, the core of the character is based on two huge things — he would never kill & he would never use guns — but, he has done both in this issue. So, even if Batman "lives" on, the character as it’s been for years & years is dead.

    Yes, I’m taking the piss … don’t get too upset.

  140. Avatar photo WinTheWonderboy says:
    January 17, 2009 at 2:25 am

    @gnanniv: I noticed that, too. Thought it was a little weird. but its probably just a color mistake. 

  141. Avatar photo drakedangerz says:
    January 17, 2009 at 10:37 am

    @Wade-I like the way your mind thinks!  Great interpretation of RIP!   

  142. Avatar photo gnanniv says:
    January 17, 2009 at 11:50 am

    @WinTheWonderBoy – thanks, just was not sure. Going back and looking, it seems to have started in FC4 which, incidentally, was when Pacheco came on the book. Not to pin it on him, but rather that was when the kitchen started getting a bit crowded in the art department. Shilo probably got lost in the shuffle whith the Japanese heroes.

  143. Avatar photo zattaric says:
    January 17, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    This was the first issue of this book that didn’t utterly confuse me.  Overall, it was ok.  As a Wonder Woman fan, I hate how she was so easily dispatched in this. 

  144. doomwad says:
    January 17, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    First!!!

  145. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 17, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    HA!

  146. Avatar photo Animalvader1 says:
    January 17, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    I find it very funny that everyone loves this yet, no body seems to know whats going on. That’s like reading an original, untranslated, copy of Homer’s Odyssey:

    "Wow! This is awesome!"

     "….Yeah? What’s it about?"

    "Haven’t a clue. It’s all Greek to me…"

  147. Avatar photo PraxJarvin says:
    January 17, 2009 at 8:23 pm

    Well… that was decidedly awesome. Glad Bruce is dead, or at least temporally displaced. (See Doctor Who’s "Blink")

    Oh well, can’t say much else about this. POW. 

  148. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 17, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    I share Animal’s humor.

  149. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 17, 2009 at 10:04 pm

    I just read my buddy’s copy. Uhm, it was… interesting…

    It read more like a trailer for a story than an actual story.

  150. Avatar photo mulletpeep says:
    January 17, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    It’s probably a legimate critisim to say that this isn’t about a specific character since it’s really about the DCU as a whole. That’s the real character arc that’s going on in this and in a lot of ways that’s the connection that this has to the first Crisis. I think it’s hard for people to get that since it’s not really being reflected in any of the other books that DC’s putting out in all but the smallest ways.  Aisde from the direct tie-ins, those horrid teen/terror titans books are pretty much it. I mean, it’s hard to get that it’s about the Universe, when it seems fine in ALL of the the other books.

    Part of me wonders if this is just that we, as major comic book fans, are trying to get how it fits into the big picture and missing a lot of what’s actually going on in it. I gave my older brother the issues of final crisis and some of the tie-in’s and he fucking LOVES it. The only other big dc books he’s read wasInfinite Crisis and the Sinestro Corps. So i have to admit i’m looking at that and thinking that maybe we’re so focused on figuring out what’s going to happen and how it fits in that we can’t see the forest for the trees.

    i mean, the story is about the dc universe. Call me crazy, but i love that.

  151. Avatar photo Animalvader1 says:
    January 18, 2009 at 12:35 am

    I chalk it up to GM’s LSD flashbacks, mostly because his stuff reads so much like lyrics from a Doors song:

    "Father?" "Yes Batman?" "…..I want to kill you"

    Ride the snake Jim/Grant Morisson. You are the lizard king. Rase your hands if you understand. Out here, in the perimiter, there are no stars. Out here, we is stoned….Immaculate…

  152. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 18, 2009 at 12:44 am

    "So i have to admit i’m looking at that and thinking that maybe we’re so focused on figuring out what’s going to happen and how it fits in that we can’t see the forest for the trees."

    Not me. I’m not in the least concerned how it fits in the bigger picture. I just don’t see a story so much as I see bits of pieces of one.

  153. Avatar photo Animalvader1 says:
    January 18, 2009 at 1:17 am

    Seriously, I don’t think the fact that it’s not reflected in the other main books has anything to do with it not making sense. Look at Secret Wars back in the day. Nothing tied into that at all for the whole year it was coming out. Books like Spidey and the FF showed us our heroes leaving for Battleworld, and them coming back the very next issue with obvious changes (Spidey in black/ She-Hulk on FF). This made people say: "hey? whats all this about? I better pick up Secret Wars and find out how this happened" As near as I can tell, the only time FC has provided answers was in relation to the unclimactic RIP, which gave people something to cling to because they finally read something they understood. The slow, criptic build up is something that only really works in comics as a sub plot (see: Captain America 1-42). So far, you’ve all invested about $24 in a story that’s left you in the dark for 3/4 of it, and you’re not even sure it’ll pay off for you in the last issue (see: RIP).

    Honestly, I wish you all the best of luck with this book. I hope it pays off for you. Do yourselves a favor though, if in the last issue a giant spotlight doesn’t go off in your heads and all of a sudden you finally understand everything GM’s ever written, think about all the money you spent on this before you dive into something else he wrote….

  154. Avatar photo TheNextChampion says:
    January 18, 2009 at 2:08 am

    Hey it’s a new record for a Morrison book! 154 comments! Who-Hoo!

    I do think that when they collect FC in the trade; resist and Submit goes along with it. Cause those two, and a lot others I’m sure, lead up to what happens in Final Crisis. So although I am enjoying this, it probably would help to read the tie-in’s while reading the main story. I know there is more you have to read in terms of the tie-ins, I’m just not sure what they are. Help?

  155. Avatar photo WadeWilson says:
    January 18, 2009 at 2:58 am

    @Animal — I will definitely think twice & then a third time before reading anything by Morrison after this. I’ve never been a huge fan or a hater before Final Crisis, I was somewhere in between — I never saw why he was so highly rated or hated (depending on who you ask) but now I am starting to see why. I’ve figured out that the very same reasons I don’t enjoy Final Crisis & RIP (vagueness, unclear narratives & general "trippiness") are the reasons why other people love it. So, I guess it just comes down to personal taste.

    After the non-ending of RIP I have VERY little faith that all these manic plot threads can be connected in any satisfying way in the final book. But, if I’m wrong I’ll be happy that I didn’t waste $28 (double that in Aussie dollars) on this event.

    @Champ — I’d add RIP or at least those 2 issues of Batman after it into the mix. Also, I’d add Requiem & Revelations (the best books to come out of Final Crisis IMO) to your list. Revelations shows more of what’s happening in the DCU as a result of the anti-life than even the main book does.

  156. Avatar photo Animalvader1 says:
    January 18, 2009 at 10:11 am

    @Wade–I agree. Not my taste at all. I have GM’s full run of Batman up to the last issue of RIP, and even though RIP wasn’t finished when FC first came out, I didn’t get it because of Morrison’s name being on it. I don’t hate the guy, but after around 25 issues of Batman, I am definitely not a fan!

  157. Avatar photo sunhero says:
    January 18, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    There seems to be a lot of confussion about this and batman r.i.p and how they tie in to each other.

    You need to read batman 683 to be clear.

  158. Avatar photo akamuu says:
    January 18, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    @flapjaxx, who probably won’t read this.

     

    I posted the 1 for this issue Wed morning, having read it Tuesday night in the warehouse.  I didn’t like it, at all.  And while you’re entitled to like it, my giving it a 1 doesn’t make me an Internet Troll.

     

    Also, I’m not a Morrison hater here.  I loved his X-Men run.  And several of his other titles, but I rank Final Crisis and Batman RIP with Seaguy as terrible missteps by a usually good writer.

  159. Avatar photo leonard says:
    January 19, 2009 at 9:13 am

    Grant Morrison needs to be put on a shorter leash. No other writer would be able to get away with the convoluted connections between RIP and Final Crisis. Especially for what seems like a major event. This was just way too confusing. It feels like it was stapled together.

  160. Avatar photo JumpingJupiter says:
    January 19, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    "It feels like it was stapled together."

    Comics are bound that way, yes.

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