This bit of news broke while we were in the middle of recording our 400th episode so we didn’t get to full analyze it but The Hollywood Reporter broke the news that the multiple Academy Award winning director and actor Ben Affleck has been cast as Batman/Bruce Wayne in the sequel to Man of Steel.
My quick thoughts on this is that I know someone involved in the production and thus I know that Warner Bros. is really keen on having Affleck (who won an Oscar for his last directorial effort, the excellent Argo) direct a Justice League movie. But Affleck has let it be known that he will only direct films that he is also acting in. And now he’s been cast as Batman. So now he’s all lined up to direct a Justice League film. Will it play out that way? We’ll see.
Update! Director/writer Zach Snyder says about Affleck:
Ben provides an interesting counter-balance to Henry [Cavill]’s Superman. He has the acting chops to create a layered portrayal of a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent and bears the scars of a seasoned crime fighter but retain the charm that the world sees in billionaire Bruce Wayne. I can’t wait to work with him.
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I dont know how i feel… cautiously optimistic?
Mixed feelings indeed! love new Affleck, despise post-early new Affleck.
Great director! But there might be too many cooks in the kitchen on this one for his work to shine through.
he was a good superman in Hollywoodland, and not a bad dardevil. But I was really hopping he would be cast as Aquaman.
Grrrr….
Karl Urban, me want…
Ben Affleck, me no likey…
I like Affleck as a director. He’s come a long way as an actor, but he’s miles away from a good fit for Bruce Wayne. There are literally dozens of actors I would rather see cast. And if Conor is right, and this is all a ploy to get him in the director’s chair for JL, that honestly makes me nauseous.
First of all, nothing in his body of directorial work suggests that he would turn out a decent superhero movie.
Secondly, refusing to act in something you’re not directing is egomaniacal, and no one would miss him if he never appeared on screen again anyway.
Thirdly, Zack Snyder is directing MOS2, so Ben already broke his one rule.
At this moment, I’m kinda depressed about this news. MOS did very little to make me want a sequel, but the news of a B/S team up got me excited. It all hinged on the casting of Bruce Wayne for me, and now I’m right back to not really caring anymore.
He’s a good director. He’s a decent actor. Absolutely nothing about him says “Batman” to me.
But I’ve been wrong before.
“Thirdly, Zack Snyder is directing MOS2, so Ben already broke his one rule. ”
He never said that he wouldn’t act in a movie he didn’t direct. He has just made it known that anything he directed he would want to also act in.
I stand corrected. I remembered his quote differently. I’ll take your word for it.
But Affleck did break one of his other rules: after his “Daredevil” debacle, he swore he’d never again play another superhero.
(Though Batman has no superpowers, so…) 😉
Even when drunk, Conor can lay the smack down.
“First of all, nothing in his body of directorial work suggests that he would turn out a decent superhero movie.”
There was really no indication that Nolan or Favreau could either. They were just experienced directors who had proven to be versatile. Worked out pretty well in both those cases…
Favreau did Zathura before Iron Man, and despite it being a forgettable movie, it provided him experience with spectacle, design, and CG effects.
Nolan did nothing but crime dramas before his Batman trilogy, and that’s what his Batman trilogy is. Crime drama.
I’ve really enjoyed every film Affleck has directed, but I’ve seen little more than a capable eye to suggest he’s the right man for a Justice League film.
I guess I just disagree with you. I don’t think Zathura had any relation to Iron Man other than the fact it included CGI nor do I think Nolan having done several “crime dramas” prepared him fully to do Batman. Particularly considering the crime epic aspect didn’t really factor into Batman Begins. I think with The Town and Argo, Affleck has shown that he knows how to construct thrilling action sequences which is a skill that can be applied to something like JLA. The action will be much different and bigger in a JLA film but I think the skill is there.
If you disagree that’s cool, just differing opinions. I just think people put too much emphasis on directors having done a similar film in their past. Del Toro had never done anything like Pacific Rim before and it was by far the best film of the summer.
@USPUNX: “I just think people put too much emphasis on directors having done a similar film in their past.”
You said it, man. A lack of opportunity doesn’t necessarily indicate a lack of capability.
Tilting back into comics for an example of what I mean, Bendis was almost exclusively a writer of crime comics until he got a shot on Ultimate Spider-man. That seems to have worked out pretty well for all parties, right?
As far as I’m concerned, directors would always be wise to challenge themselves. Anything could happen.
Let’s table this discussion until Affleck is signed on as director for JL.
Afflek not a good fit for Bruce Wayne? Come on, as long as they turn the Bruce Wayne character into a dude from Boston with southie accent everything will be fine. I mean the guy has acted well in 3/23 movies so far (all 3 with a Basstun accent).
In all seriousness though i think as ridiculous as it may sound, his height has something to do with this. They wanted some dude that could stand toe to toe with Cavil, which is probably not so easy to find. Too bad Afflek hasn’t worked out a day in his life and would probably cramp up just putting the suit on.
@iroberts007: “In all seriousness though i think as ridiculous as it may sound, his height has something to do with this. They wanted some dude that could stand toe to toe with Cavil, which is probably not so easy to find.”
That’s what apple boxes are for.
@iroberts007: “Too bad Afflek hasn’t worked out a day in his life and would probably cramp up just putting the suit on.”
C’mon. Don’t be that fan.
I hear Howard Stern is looking for someone of a similar body type to take over the sacred reigns of his Fartman superhero character in a new feature film. Afflek was his first choice but now after this news it’s not meant to be. The perfect Fartman movie in the shitter all because Affleck had a midlife crisis.
If Chris Pratt was able to get into the shape he’s in for Starlord from the shape he was in, then that “He’s not the right body type” argument has truly been killed and not worth bringing up ever again.
Ha chris. This has nothing to with not being able to get in shape. It’s about desire to get in shape or change ones shape. Affleck’s shape has not changed for 20 years. What are you talking about? Also if you knew anything about working out you would know how certain people just can’t put on much mass (without hugh jackman’s 5000 calorie diet or even with it). Also more importantly good luck starting from scratch with the testosterone of someone in their 40’s. Gonna need some roids.
He will end up with the same mass he had in daredevil and hopefully he will bring his A game while acting.
I never have complained about an actor getting a role before but this one man. Stick your thought police, bad cop.
When you say in shape, do you mean every single muscle of his bulges out several inches? If so, I have to ask; does anybody find it strange the expectations we have on actors to bulk up to play superheroes? I mean Chris Evans, Chris Helmsworth, Henry Cavill, those guys got insanely ripped. Props to them for that. But why do expect every male actor to do the same; bulk up insanely so they resemble the comic illustrations? Why can’t he just lose the belly and tone up?
Well first of all my first couple of comments were conceived by me when i was thinking goofy light hearted thoughts. Second of all I do not expect Ben Affleck to bulk up and I actually do not think it is necessary for the role. I am of an opinion that Affleck was always a flabby skinny guy and he remained so on daredevil. He was not toned on daredevil if i remember correctly. Toned is enough, something that shows something resembling an athletic body is enough. Mountain climbers are incredible athletes and are both toned and light. I think that gymnasts are the best athletes in the world and those guys are pretty big though (exactly what Dick Grayson would look like), but again that is not necessary. I don’t think i have ever seen a single muscle on affleck so he might look silly next to Cavill unless they use some padding.
Having said all this I think John Hamm would make the ideal Batman and he is as flabby as Affleck. Hamm is a better actor however and that is what really matters. Was Hamm even asked? Maybe he would not be interested anyway. The rest of my comments were just jokes really but good cop and bad cop can’t keep it in their holster; they just want to whip that little thing out all the time.
Well yea, why have it and not whip it out?
Heh, serious now. Ok, I guess I misread your first couple of comments then. Hamm was “rumored’ for the part, along with like a half dozen others. I’ve been looking for this article from IGN for 2 weeks and finally found it:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/08/02/rumor-next-movie-batman-will-be-middle-aged-veteran-superhero
Affleck isn’t even on the list, but its full of interesting choices.
@iroberts007 “toned is enough” I agree I bought Keaton and don’t remember him being big at all. My GF won’t let me forget Affleck’s shirtless scene in Argo he wasn’t huge but I think he had a bit of a six pack and imo he was toned. I think being a leading man in Hollywood requires you to have a personal trainer and I know from Kevin Smith’s podcast he has a personal chief to cook him certain foods for his diet. I don’t think it matters that he have the body that Batman would have in real life cause the whole concept is so unrealistic to begin with.
Thanks Itho. You probably didn’t misread me. I was being vague and wishy washy and goofy.
Ya Scott maybe i am wrong about him. It just so happens that I haven’t seen Argo yet but in past movies where he has gone shirtless (even none superhero movies) i actually thought on more than one occasion “why does matt damon not give his friend some tips”. I am a guy that until very recently ran 20 miles a week under 9 minute miles, played numerous sports, and lifted 3 days a week, so maybe i have an unrealistic or unreasonable reasoning in this regard. Also i have a hang up about realism to the point that if i pick art or decorations for my house i always choose near photo realistic art. Even stuff like halloween costumes with me always had to be “realistic” looking. The last time i went to halloween party i used movie quality makeup and prosthetics just to make parts of my face look rotten and falling apart. I looked better than a walking dead extra. Just my notion of what being untrained can do to someone who just dives right into any particular sport will probably take away a bit of fun from my viewing pleasure of this upcoming movie. I mean seriously if Affleck doesn’t train a little he could injury himself on the first day of filming a fight scene, never mind actually fighting.
Anyway based on your Argo six pack info maybe he has turned into a gym rat. Either way i am sure that he will train. My issue is really more about his acting than anything else, but i concede that i have liked him in “the town”, “sum of all fears”, and at least a few other movies. Its stuff like reindeer games that has got me wishing for some Hamm.
Love the mighty mouse avatar btw.
Holy shit Itho. Jim Cavizel as well? I never thought of him; i have no idea why. He practically is Batman on that pretty good “person of interest” tv show. How awesome would he have been?
I know. Every single guy on that list would be great I think, even Gosling I have to admit. But now Ben Affleck has the role. I’ll say this for DC stuff, aside from Forever Evil, they’re full of surprises.
I’ve got mixed feelings. A mixture of anxiety and disappointment. I hope he can pull it off, though. After all, fans scoffed when they heard Keaton was going to play Batman.
I think the problem for many fans is, that while Ben Affleck is not at all the worst casting choice for Batman (cough *Orlando Bloom* cough) it’s not a stand-up-and-shout, awesome choice either; it’s kind of not exciting. By now, we’ve not only seen everything Affleck can do as an actor, but we’ve also seen him play a superhero before – and we’ve even seen him play the bitter, jaded side of being a hero, in “Hollywoodland.” Casting someone like Josh Brolin or Karl Urban might have been more exciting for us fans, in that it would have given us someone we felt we could “mold” into our very own iconic Batman for the new era. But who knows? Affleck’s talent certainly has grown through the years – perhaps he’ll impress us as Batman. I’m sure he’ll bring his A-game. I’m cautiously optimistic.
I have no idea how to feel.
On one hand, Zack Snyder has proven time and time again just how great he is at casting male leads from Gerard Butler as Leonidas to Jackie Earl Haley as Rorschach and of course, Cavill as Supes.
On the other hand…I’m gonna have a hell of a time trying NOT to see Ben Affleck’s face under the cowl for the duration of a 2 and a half hour movie.
Best to start preparing since that’s where victory lies.
As I said before – what the FUCKIN FUCK?!
Still relevant…
I don’t see it. Didn’t have much hope for this to begin with
I’ve never seen so much wide spread negativity for this kind of announcement before. Every message board, tweet, post on Facebook is like “Him? Really?”. While I understand it, what happened to wait and reserve judgement? People freaked when Keaton was announced. He turned out as one of the best. Same thing happened with Ledger, now we can’t see anyone else in that role. Before we write him off can we at least see something before we flip out? I know most people will say that’s the Internet, but we’re going to be hearing stuff like that until the day it comes out.
I think the difference here is that (as others have commented) we’ve seen Affleck in very similar roles before, to not-so-great results. Keaton & Ledger were complete about-faces, unexpected & doubted, but also untested.
While this news comes as a big surprise, I’m optimistic that this can work just fine. Affleck wasn’t the problem with DD, it was the script and costume. Plus he won’t be carrying the entire movie, it’s Batman AND Superman, and I think Ben is best when he has others to play off of. I think he could pull off a great Bruce, I just hope he can do as well under the cowl.
Could be a good choice, I trust Snyder so why don’t we give him a chance. Besides, The Town and Argo were great. I can totally see him pulling off the Billionaire playboy and he has the abs/body/jaw for the role, just need to see what he and Zack come up with.
Personally I’m more worried about who they cast as Lex. Everyone seems to be talking about Brian Cranston (who would be cool as Lex) and other older actors, but I would honestly prefer someone closer to Henry or Ben’s age and have him be super fit; lets have the Ultimate Human that Lex thinks he is instead of the older/bigger real estate tycoon we have had, more like Michael Rosenbaum and less like Gene Hackman 🙂
I agree about casting Luthor close to Superman’s age — they are supposed to be school classmates after all.
Don’t lose your shit so early fan boys. People were up in arms when Heath Ledger was announced as Joker, Henry Cavil as Superman, Ann Hathaway as Catwoman, Tom Hardy as Bane etc etc etc. If you would have told me that Ben Affleck was going to be Batman 10yrs ago I may have been hesitant to find anything positive to say, but he has proven what a versatile actor he has become since his amazing heist moving the Town. He’s the perfect age being not too young but not old were he doesn’t have the boyish charms of Bruce Wayne. Plus the dude is 6’4 and gets mad ripe for his roles. So I’m actually happy about the news and can’t wait to see what he can bring to the legacy of Batman, just be happy it’s not Army Hammer.
I didn’t care for hathaway catwoman or hardy bane. Is it okay to flip my shit now?
j/k I’m pretty indifferent about the movie period, since goyer and snyder are returning.
Why are people down on Army Hammer? He was excellent in “The Social Network” and that movie about J. Edgar Hoover with Leonardo DiCaprio. Hammer is also good looking, and more age appropriate for the role of Batman.
“Hammer is also good looking, and more age appropriate for the role of Batman.”
Not for this film in which they are going for an older grizzled veteran Batman.
Do we really know for sure that they are doing veteran Batman? Sure they have insinuated that TDKR is inspiration but to my knowledge no one has confirmed if Batman will have been acting as a crime fighter for a significant amount of time, five plus years maybe. I’m all for the portrayal of an older Batman but I wonder if The Man of Steel sequel is the best time for that. Personally I wanted to see Batman in his prime during these movies.
I think with the casting of Ben Affleck as batman that has been confirmed.
@Invincipal: Look at the quote from Zach Snyder in the article.
Taken from the article on ifanboy “Apparently they’ll be taking notes from Frank Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns, though Snyder stresses this will not be an adaptation of that work”
What I mean is that we have no idea what parts they are taking. Using something as inspiration is way different than an adaptation. Yes Affleck’s age seems to point in the direction of a seasoned older batman but I we still don’t know for sure. For all we know Snyder will use TDKR for inspiration for the Batman/Superman dynamic when they butt heads. I’m not saying anyone here is wrong, I just don’t think we know yet.
@Invincipal: “Yes Affleck’s age seems to point in the direction of a seasoned older batman but I we still don’t know for sure.”
Well, they cast an actor in his 40s as Batman and then the writer/director said this:
“He has the acting chops to create a layered portrayal of a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent and bears the scars of a seasoned crime fighter…”
So….
I guess when hear the word seasoned I think more “prime”, almost the semi-over confident Batman Scott Snyder is writing. Maybe one who has been Batman for around 5 years. I probably interpreted your grizzled veteran to a farther extent than you may have intended, a Batman who has been operating for almost 10 years. If thats what they are trying to do Affleck’s age is perfect for the Man of Steel sequel but I still think he is a little to old for JL sequels. None the less I’m super excited to see all the movies.
@ Connor “Not for this film in which they are going for an older grizzled veteran Batman.”
It’s odd to me that DC was so adamant that Superman be the first superhero in the new 52, and then make Batman a more experienced vigilante in the films. Neither scenario causes any degree of fanboy rage…they both seem valid, and hollywood will do whatever it wants anyway, but I’m puzzled by the apparent inconsistency this early on in the film universe.
On the plus side NO ONE would suspect Millionaire Ben Affleck is really Batman, so why would the new cinematic DCU 😛
Eh, it’ll be good or it won’t. Having gotten three (or two if you’re feeling pugnacious) great Batman movies, several years of great Batman animated performances, two fantastic Batman games, I’m not all that worried about the character being rejected if Affleck’s performance isn’t that great.
Next week’s announcement: Joey Lauren Adams as Vicki Vale and Jason Lee as Lex Luthor.
With Mewes as Jimmy Olsen?
Cautiously optimistic. I can see why people are upset about it, but I think Affleck certainly has talent as an actor, he just needs the right combination of script, direction, etc. to make it work like he did in some of his newer stuff, as well as back in the day in Chasing Amy, Good WIll Hunting, etc. Hopefully this next movie is that. Also, I like the long game idea of him doing a Justice League movie; Argo certainly showed he could do a delightful action movie, as did the Town, and I’d like to see him take it up even another level with Justice League.
I feel the same way about this casting as i did when i heard Micheal Keaton was playing Batman. But that one turned out pretty good so i have hope.
I’m happy…I’m scared…I love it…I hate it…I’m excited…I don’t know what to think…I’m confused
Sigh. I’m not up-in-arms-upset-outraged about this, but, really, more disappointed. I don’t really see Affleck in the role at all. It might work in the end, as Keaton did, but I have my reservations. I do agree that an actor like Brolin or Urban would have brought more to the role. So it goes.
As for the conspiracy theories, another I heard last night was that Allfeck did this deal with Warner Brothers in order to green light some directorial project that otherwise wouldn’t have been made. Or it’s all about money. Or a Justice League film. Personally, I always liked the idea of him playing Maxwell Lord in a League film, though, when I’m honest with myself, I doubt Warner Brothers would include the character anyway . . .
Disappointed describes it perfectly.
Ben Affleck will probably do a competent job, but there are so many actors who would have been better suited. It’s not his fault, but Affleck is too old for the role. He’s 41! What kind of shape will he be in if he plays the role for more than one film? Affleck has always been rather borderline leading man material, given his looks. That big, lantern jaw, and that flat face make him no one’s idea of “sexiest man alive.” And Affleck is hardly a film savant. “Argo” was a solid, entertaining thriller. The only reason it won an Oscar was because the directors of the better movies last year had already won. And don’t get me started on how Tony Kushner was robbed of his Oscar for the “Lincoln” screenplay by the guy who wrote “Argo!”
watch hollywoodland before you decide.
bet this means he will be directing justice leugue or next batman
Jeez, if I were to believe the internet, I’d think there are a LOT of bitter, unemployed casting directors out there.
Fassbender as Luthor?
Ben Affleck awakes, checks Internet news and social sites. “Affleck is Batman? Sucks!” He chuckles, kisses his beautiful movie star wife, pats his Oscar, goes back to bed.
*Oscars
I like it. The guy can act, he can handle the action stuff, I think he has gotten to be a good director so hopefully that can influence his performance. And he is a big name that adds serious creditablity to the whole project. And that can’t hurt.
Just remember: Christian Bale was a Newsie before he became Batman.
Say what you will about Ben Affleck being cast as #Batman, I know he can nail the playboy part of Bruce Wayne for sure.
Bale was in 28 films before Begins. He’s been acting since he was twelve years old, and even at that age he was a better actor than Ben Affleck.
@Wheelhands: did you read that as “newbie” instead of “Newsie?”
Nope.
My point was that he was a lot more than just a Newsie.
what is a newsie?
Newsies were kids that sold papers in the early 1900s Disney made a musical out of a famous newsboy strike that took place in NY it was called Newsies.
Ha, oh now i get it. Thanks Scott. I just looked it up and it was also the title of a movie he stared in at 18 years of age. A musical, which explains why i have never seen it. I hate musicals.
I have zero interest in MoS 2 given the first movie and its continuing creative team, but Affleck is one of my favorite film makers. It’s at least heartening to see him in the wings as potential director for future DC films.
Agreed. No interest in sequel, but this ADAMANTLY keeps me away from it.
I don’t like the idea of Affleck as Bats AT ALL, but I’d be fine with him directing.
I still remember when they cast Micheal Keaton as Batman back in ’89. The internet wasn’t around yet but there was still a lot of wonder about why cast him. But that movie turned out pretty good and for the time it made the Batman franchise a viable commodity. I’m on a wait and see basis.
Hey, for no particular reason, read this 1988 Toronto Star article about Tim Burton’s Batman movie:
http://www.timburtoncollective.com/articles/bat7.html
People actually wanted Sylvester Stalone to play Batman? This is why most people don’t make movies.
“Michael Keaton is no Sylvester Stallone.” Truer words have never been spoken, though I’m not sure the author means it the same way I do
It seems I’m in the minority in terms of internet posters, but I’m pretty cool with this casting choice. I like Ben Affleck a lot, especially as a director, and he’s acted in some pretty good movies in which he was very good in. If he really is going to direct a JL movie then that would be great, but honestly, I find it hard to believe that Warner/DC would gamble on casting him just to get him to direct the JL movie if he wasn’t their top choice for the part.
I am… mitigated! 0_o
I really dont have much interest in future DC movies and Affleck as Batman only solidifies that. But hey, these things can surprise us sometimes…it’ll be after a dvd rental though.
As for Afflecks directing, I thought Argo was shot well but felt it was still a very paint-by-numbers kind of movie. Didnt like any of his other movies but he was the bomb in Phantoms.
Word B*tch, Phantoms like a Mother F*****.
@85 thank you, it had to be said.
Well Batman is ruined for me! I can’t stand Ben Affleck, goddammit!
That’s hoe I feel about Bale, I never bothered to see The third Nolan film because despite loving everything else about the first two, I can’t stand Christian Bale (as Batman).
Same here re: Affleck. Even if he is a good actor (not) and manages to be intimidating as Batman all I’ll be able to think of is : “Look at Affleck trying to be tough, a-ha-ha!”
The last time I saw this much negativity around a casting choice for a superhero movie was Heath Ledger being announced to play the Joker. We all saw how that played out.
Affleck’s had three amazing movies in the last few years that he was involved in a number of ways, whether writing, directing or acting. after Argo, The Town and Gone Baby Gone he’s shown he’s a talented guy. He deserves the benefit of the doubt.
WOW that caught everyone by surprise and certainly no one knows what to make of it.
Definitely he has been a great director and I can see the interest from the DC office to have him direct one of their movies, as an actor he recently have deliver good performances but I agree, for the life of me, I can’t see him as Batman.
P.S.: I don’t see him as Batman and many others either, but he may surprise us all, tho.
I think Affleck has balls of steel to take this. he spent years as a punchline before completely reinventing himself and I doubt he wants to go back. Pride has got to be more important to the guy than money at this point I doubt he’s going to be party to a price of junk (Script approval?) Oh, And he’s now the best director of character scenes involved. I think haters can add all the o’s they want to their “Noooooos”, there are very few real arguments against him. And he looks just like Capullo draws Bruce Wayne.
I think it bears remembering the initial reaction toward Heather Ledger when it was announced he was cast as The Joker. A lot of negativity and doubts. Turned out pretty well though. Affleck has made some mistakes in his early career but what young actor hasn’t? I think he has proven he at least deserves a chance.
Ben Affleck seems like the HHH of Hollywood, he’s good in his own way but he has a way of burying the ppl he works with. Good luck Supernan!
Hahahahahaha that is an amazing analogy.
CLAP. CLAP. CLAP.
He’s a respected director now, and dude has seriously stepped up his acting game as well. I think this is a major chess move by Warner, and something they really need for their DC film world. I’m eager to see how it all turns out.
Having given it a night to sleep on it, Affleck as German had grown on me. Problem is I still have zero enthusiasm for a Man of Steel sequel given what’s come before and the direction they are taking the characters for the movie.
I don’t mind if he plays a German. I just don’t think he’s right for Batman.
😉
Haha! Damn you again auto-correct!
i kinda feel like its impossible to cast an actor in a superhero role without the internet freaking out. Fanboys are never happy.
I think Affleck has the chops to pull it off. This could be really cool.
Fanboy rage about a casting choice? That’s a new one. How about we wait until the movie comes out before we pass judgement?
Someday, Jon Hamm.
Someday.
Hamm for DK Returns. 2028.
Affleck worked with Hamm in The Town. Maybe he’ll cast him as Robin in the JL movie. 😉
Oh, shut up Sitara.
😉
Couldn’t resist, amigo. 😀
To me, Bale was a great Batman because he was wasn’t a super-well known-Hollywood-establishment-A-list actor and I didn’t really have an idea of him as anything other than Batman. Affleck comes with so much baggage. Whenever I see his face I just think US Magazine in the supermarket check out line.
But, Downey pulled of Iron Man in a big way.
I never thought of Bale being unknown then but I guess your right, I loved Empire of the Sun growing up and always knew of Bale as the kid in that movie and had a hard time getting use to him when he started showing up in very adult roles like American Psycho.
Totally. I was a fan before Batman and he’s one of the best. He’s great in everything. Reign of fire is unexpectedly awesome! I’m not as bowled over by Affleck’s talent. Argo was good. I felt like it could have been great though. Hell of a story but he basically played the part of narrator. The supporting cast was probably as good as anything ever assembled for a modern movie. I felt like story seemed to unfold in spite of his performance.
That is a good point randall. When i looked at Bale as Batman i saw Batman because his personal life is largely a mystery. When i look at Affleck as anything i can’t help but have my view obstructed by J Lo’s huge ass (and therefor just see Affleck pretending to be Batman). Alec Baldwin just did an interview on Howard Stern during which he talked about how a colleague used to tell him to stay out of the press to prevent turning all of his characters into versions of himself. He also commented about twitter and how that has done him and many other actors/actresses a lot of damage by killing their mystery. Their characters get mixed up with their opinions with many fans. I try to keep these things separate but Lopez’s ass is still too big to ignore.
I can’t wait to witness the legendary grudge match. Superman vs Ben Affleck.
After giving some thought about this casting choice, this is really a Superman movie with Batman guest starring. You never see the starring character getting outshined by the guest star. Every time I noticed Wolverine guest starring a Punisher comic, the Punisher never gets killed off when they are fighting with each other. Right now, Batman is movie king and Superman needs a opportunity to take the mantle. I liked Argo but Ben Affleck was not a good actor (very cut and dry, maybe intentional) in that movie. Superman might be more emotional and Batman more serious, It might work but the dialogue needs to bring it out.
I really wish they had gone with someone else on this. All I can hope for is that Affleck has learned some lesson from Dare Devil and take some lessons from Christian Bale. There has been the home runs he hit with recent projects, but I think Affleck lacks what it takes to be a super hero character in a movie.
I think the major issue with this casting is that too many people, myself included, don’t quite see Affleck as a good fit for the character, is just that simple. He may surprise us all, true, but right know we are not sold into the idea.
He has come up to be a great director and recently a decent actor but I rather see him as a new Hal Jordan or even Barry Allen but not Bruce Wayne.
Lets see if DC’s gamble pay up, because that is what they are doing. It’s a gamble, “sacrificing” a major character role for having him direct supposedly Justice League, or perhaps something else, a stand alone Batman movie after JL, maybe?
I have a lot more faith in Ben Affleck than I do in the quality of DC movies in general.
Here, here!
Is there a single casting choice made for one of these films where people weren’t “HIM?! No way! He’s a terrible choice!”.
Affleck is not my first, second, or third choice. But despite all that, I say he’s a great choice. “The Town”? “Argo”? He can act and he knows movies. I was already sold on MoS2 anyway, so this wouldn’t really worry me anyway.
At first I thought he was a lame choice , but than after thinking about it I realized I don’t care either way. I like the comics waaaay more than any movie or Tv show they’re based on and will probably never see this. Hopefully it turns out well and he does a good job.
I meant to say ” I like comics waaaay more than the movies or TV shows that are based on them.”
Is there a grey area in which a fan can express their disappointment about something this trivial and not have it labeled “nerd rage”? It seems to me that whining about the whiners has become just as tiresome as the complaints themselves. Somewhere along the line, it became hip to blast the negative opinions instead of simply expressing your own and moving on.
With very few exceptions, I don’t see anyone here being anymore unreasonable than usual, and yet there seems to be an equal ratio of “This is disappointing” comments to “Cue the nerd rage” comments. What’s wrong with being disappointed by an announcement like this? This is a decision that could very well have Ben Affleck playing Batman in multiple films over the next 5 or 10 years. If you don’t like Ben Aflleck, and you like Batman, that kinda blows. It certainly doesn’t matter in a “grand scheme of things” kinda way. We’ve all still (hopefully) got our health. But news like that can take the wind out of your sails.
Now, of course the rebuttal to this particular brand of criticism is always, “Wait and see. Ya never know.” And that’s entirely valid. We DON’T ever know. But you can still have a knee-jerk reaction based on a performer’s previous body of work, and that too can be entirely valid. This post isn’t a clip of a screen test. It’s an anouncement. What’s wrong with anouncing your reaction to the announcement?
+1,000,000,000
It’s definitely unfair. Just because a choice regarding a comic book movie is announced, the reaction doesn’t always have to be “TEAM COMICS HURRAH!”
Agreed, no one seems outrageously upset on this thread, some people were just expecting something else from the casting. I think Affleck is a capable actor for this role but I think he is about 5 or 6 years too old. If DC is trying to compete with Marvel and Justice League is a commercial success I assume it will have a sequel or turn into a trilogy. Affleck is 41 now. Should Batman be pushing fifty in a potential third Justice League movie?
@invincipal: I actually think that’s exactly what they’re going for, the aging Batman. My friend and I were talking about this and we were speculating that Bruce Wayne would take on almost a Lex Luthor type antagonist role in MoS2. The rich industrial genius who objects to Supes enforcing his brand of justice. We even speculated on a Wayne/Luthor team up.
Also, I think we’re jumping the gun a little on the JLA film. MoS2 needs to be a success first, and I would guess a pretty big one, to green light a JLA film and I’m think that’s anything but guaranteed at this point.
Well said WheelHands. No here is proposing an online petition to remove Affleck just voicing a displeasure of him as Batman. I don’t see how that’s nerd rage in the slightest.
@Invincipal: Robert Downey Jr. is 48 and they haven’t even made the second Avengers movie yet.
I think it works better for Iron Man because his ability relies less on physical strength. I wouldn’t want Chris Evans to be as old as RDJ by the time Avengers AoU comes out and I feel the same about Batman.
When it comes down to Batman versus Superman or say Darkseid (in a potential JLA film) I don’t think physical strength matters no matter what age you are.
Forgot to reply to this comment, oops
@ USPUNX i didn’t see your fist comment either. That idea sounds pretty cool and I would definitely watch that. JLA is jumping the gun a bit, since multiple movies need to be a commercial success. I’m willing to bet they take age into consideration since the possibility of a DC cinematic universe exists. I bet its tough for producers and directors to balance casting decisions knowing that future movies, possibly releasing in 8+ years, may exist.
@WheelHands
I absolutely think there is a grey area for disappointed fans. I think that area is defined by how thoughtfully and contemplatively the disheartened fan can reflect their feelings/ideas.
When I read comments that state this is the worst thing to happen to America since Pearl Harbor (and not the movie staring Afflect, but the actual events), I can’t help but role my eyes and try to remember why this is so important.
Luckily ifanboy is full of logically pensive chaps such as yourself and not plagued by too many hyperbolic lunatics. 😉
@ USPUNX, your probably right assuming those are the villains they are aiming to tackle and don’t have plans for more Batman solo films with Affleck. Considering the monetary value of Batman I wouldn’t put that off the table. It should be exciting to see how they tackle an older Batman.
I think he’s a better actor now than when he did Daredevil 10 years ago. Plus he will hopefully have a better script. My questions would be, as Conor notes above, will he direct a Justice League movie? Or what about a Batman movie? I think Affleck doing a Batman movie would be great, more so than a Justice League one just in terms of his strengths and style. Also, which of Batman’s supporting cast will show up in Superman vs. Batman? Gordon? Alfred? Anyone else? I’m looking forward to seeing what he does.
I’m fine with this. If Mr Mom could set the standard of the time, then why can’t Jersey Girl set a new one. 😉
I thought WB would go with Brolin, Urban or Hamm and feared the worst when I heard it might be Bloom or Gosling. Certainly we all can at least be happy that neither of the latter got the role. Small victories, ya know? It’s worth cheezin’ about. 😀
Mr. Mom is a great movie!
I know, right?
I think Ben Affleck could totally play Batman. I just have no interest in spending any more time in the DC Universe as interpreted by David Goyer and Zack Snyder. In fact, I’ll go one further: I’ve had enough of Batman and Superman for a while, give me something different.
Seriously, next year we’re going to have a movie starring GROOT AND ROCKET RACCOON and by the time “Batman Punch Superman” comes out we’ll have the second Avengers movie. While neither Marvel nor DC has made a solo female superhero movie yet, I’d wager a “Black Widow,” “Spider Woman,” or “Captain Marvel” movie will come out at least five years before “Wonder Woman.”
And honestly, now that Marvel Studios has the rights to “Daredevil,” “Ghost Rider,” “Punisher,” and “Blade,” I think they might soon be able to beat DC at the “dark and gritty” game DC is hell-bent on playing.
I wish you had posted this last night I had so much more emotion then. I like Ben Affleck as an actor but he would be my last choice to play Batman. The fact that he was a terrible Daredevil doesn’t help things.
It *was* posted last night — at 1:18am ET / 10:18pm PT.
I think Ben Affleck has grown tremendously as an actor in the past few years. That being said, my first reactions to this are skewed towards the negative side. Affleck is an actor known for bringing himself to alot of his roles, and I don’t think that really works for Bruce Wayne. And YES, I know that part of RDJ’s charm in playing Tony Stark is that he interjects his own personality into the character, but that works because his personality and Stark’s character run on very parallel rails. That’s not really the case for Affleck and Bruce Wayne.
Plus, I don’t think that the Heath Ledger comparisons are fully parallel to this. Yes, Ledger was an unexpected choice for the Joker. The difference is that it was an unexpected choice made by a director with a FAR better track record than this one. With Nolan, you can confidently say “I’m wary, but I have faith in him”. Can you really say that with Snyder? The reception to 300, Watchmen, Sucker Punch and Man Of Steel has been mixed to downright negative. A small handful can say stuff like “But I liked Man Of Steel!!” all they want, but the fact of the matter is that way too many people had the same reaction to the movie to call it anything but reviled. So yeah, Snyder doesn’t get the same leeway that Nolan gets for offbeat casting choices.
Well, it appears that everyone forgot about the year 2005 and the Elektra film, by Fox if I recall correctly.
A few people said that no studio had done a solo female superhero movie but there’s Elektra.
So I think Marvel just don’t see the need to make one because, for the grand story they are telling, they don’t have a lead female superhero character to be part of the telling, for now, but perhaps that could change in Phase 3 and they could use Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) after a slight introduction in Avengers 2… anyone?
And for DC, I think they are being too cautious about it, fearing a potential bad outcome if not done right.
I like Ben. I think he’s a good actor and a better director. That said, I think I’d rather see him play a drunk Adam West banging chicks at his 10,000th Comic Con and then get high-jacked by a squid-like alien race driving a giant Batmobile that they constructed based on transmissions from a 1966 TV show and being chased by an evil reptile with a patch over one eye. Now that would be a movie I’d pay to see.
He doesn’t act or look tough enough to be Batman.
And if you think he can be tough enough because Michael Keaton was, think again. Keaton only had to compete against Adam West’s Batman and everyone was just happy it wasn’t that version. (Thank you, Tim Burton, for that much).
He was pretty tough in The Town
His whole thing is that he’s a tough but sly Boston dude.
Not seeing it. Clint Eastwood is way tougher at 100 years old then Ben is at any age.
@webhead921: No, no he was not tough in The Town. He was average which was a step up for him. Lorenzo Lamas in a male hair product commercial was tougher then Affleck in The Town.
This is what I posted earlier for some friends on Facebook. It’s quite long, and if it is troublesome in its length, I apologize. It was addressed to a mostly non-comic reading crowd, but I feel it may ring true in some cases here as well.
Thoughts on “Batman/Superman”, or The Armchair Casting Director Pandemic
Part One: History is Doomed to Repeat What Bares Repeating
You folks are funny.
I hate to add my grossly self-important opinion to the veritable river of grossly self-important opinions on the recent news concerning the casting of Ben Affleck as Batman in the upcoming “Batman/Superman” film, but I’m going to anyway. The amount of uninspired “Affleck WUZ DARDEVIL LOL” posts, conversations, and discussion has shaken me from my MLK inspired path of internet non-violence.
In point of fact, I would personally like to slap all of you for perpetuating this most vicious of pop-culture cycles. It is disconcerting that so many of you haven’t learned from your most recent history, one that you don’t even have to read it because you’ve lived it.
The simple truth is this: Hollywood is smarter than you. And get this — They know how to cast a movie better than you do. Oh, and on top of that? The majority has been wrong almost every single time over the last ten years after every major casting announcement for any film franchise.
“What?” you gasp, taken aback. “Better than me? I’ve watched all these movies! I know these characters! I know everything about every celebrity that has existed since TMZ began! What do you mean Hollywood is smarter than me?”
Most assuredly, my statement above is pure conjecture. I have never seen the statistics to back this up. It is a gut feeling stolen from the zeitgeist, this pollutive fog, that covers the realm of the internet. The observations are clear, and my senses were not singular, so I trust you all will know the truth of what I’m about to say when I say it, because you will feel its kernel of truth within you.
Part Two: Observations On Casting Hysteria
In early 2005, when the Bond franchise was being rekindled and rebooted, the announcement came about that Daniel Craig, the then almost unknown star, would be unholstering the Walther PP7 for the role. Now, this was met with unholy resistance from the 007 concerned public, mostly concerning the nature of Craig’s blonde hair. Because how could James Bond possibly be blonde? Obviously, “Casino Royale” went on to become quite the hit, spawning two more films with Craig at the helm; his performance widely considered one of the better Bond outings.
In 2004, Christian Bale is announced as the new Batman. World shuffles feet in dread. Goes on to helm one of the most successful franchise of all time.
In 2006, Heath Ledger is announced to play the Joker in the Batman Begins sequel. Do you remember how outraged people were that this lanky pretty boy was going to take on the Joker? Wins an oscar and people discuss his performance now with a reverence reserved for Michelangelo’s Sistine Chapel.
With the exception of Robert Downey Jr, almost every person to garner a role in The Avengers met some weird opposition. Mark Ruffalo in particular, but Chris Evans as well due to his notoriety for his smart-ass pretty boy roles. People even were let down that Triple H, famed wrestler, was not cast to play Thor.
Each and every one of these cases, although the data is based on mere observation, showcases what a reactionary bunch of morons we can be at times. Everyone has or knows a friend that reacted this way. In my case with my line of work, I see and talk to these types of people constantly, and I have on occasion done these things myself.
You’d think we all would have learned by now not to react so heavily and harshly. You’d think there would be more temperance and less venom found coming from the mouthes of so many who understand the goal of these types of films is to entertain and excite and sell tickets to the next one.
Then Warner Brothers announces they’ve chose Academy Award winning Writer/Director Ben Affleck to star as Batman in their last bat-related outing.
And the world loses its collective fucking mind.
Part Three: The Sly Stallone Affliction
Ben Affleck is one of the most talented mainstream Hollywood players of today. Look, I get a hefty lot of you want to rehash ten year old Affleck jokes that were told much better by the creators of South Park over ten years ago. We all know how miserable a career Affleck had post-Good Will Hunting.
Affleck suffered from, what I like to call, the Sly Stallone Affliction. Let me elaborate:
In 1975, or thereabouts, Sylvester Stallone wrote a little independent film called Rocky. This particular film not only went on to win three Academy Awards, acknowledged by AFI to be one of the greatest American films ever made, and adopted into the Library of Congress; it also had a pretty fucking great script. It’s structure is unbelievable and its characters organic and lovable. Overall, it is a wonderful little piece of storytelling.
And the man that wrote that went on to write and star in more award winning films. Wait, no — he is currently preparing Expendables 3.
You want to know why?
Because writing movies is really hard. Like, really really hard. And you know what? You don’t get any credit unless you’re astronomically lucky. And you know what else? It pays in stale fortune cookies when compared to an actors salary. So, Mr. Stallone, rocketing forth on his newfound fame, decided to forgo the rough, thankless terrain of a writer and went straight for the stars.
So did Affleck.
Again, an struggling actor co-writes a script that wins an academy award, an extremely good script at that, and starts getting offers for roles beyond the writing chair. And guess what? He chooses fame and money vs a silent room with only a computer screen and your mounting doubts for company.
The guy was apart of some horrible, horrible films. He’s all but laughed out of the spotlight, not only in private, but on a very public scale.
Years later, after being drummed to the gallows, he returns quietly and directs a small film called Gone Baby Gone. It isn’t perfect, but it’s good. Good enough for another production company to give him more money to make more films. This culminates in the very well done The Town and the Academy Award winning film Argo. Both films feature the writer/director in a leading role, and you know what? He’s good in them.
He’s good.
Make all the crappy, cleverless Daredevil jokes you want to, but as we’ve seen what Affleck is capable of when he’s on, I would think the blame for that atrocity lies more in the lap of director Mark Steven Johnson (Who also directed the equally horrific Ghost Rider).
Hell, even good movies can make a bad performance look good. I’m staring right at you, Christian Bale.
(And before you call get up in arms about that comment, I want you to think about the most parodied film role of the last ten years and try and find another one that isn’t his role as Batman)
Part Four: We Plant Our Feet In The Ground, Our Head In The Sand
It’s funny, but as these comic franchise have developed over the last few years, I’ve watched moviegoers develop an ownership of these characters that before was only likened to avid comic readers like myself. Now, it has become universal. When I was younger, I used to dread just as much as I was excited by the film adaptations of the characters I loved — my heart could not take it if they were sullied by their onscreen personas. So, I understand wanting to protect your idealized version of a character.
But for fucks sake, we came here to be entertained, and so far the superhero films of the last few years have all been be quite entertaining, even in the face of armchair casting directors.
I came to the realization many years ago that these characters are beyond me, that their interpretations are endless. I’ve seen Batman as an actual medical knight, in 1892, from the future, as a vampire, as a campy 60’s neon flash, and as a space-farer. Affleck’s Batman will be small potatoes.
And you know what?
Affleck, despite all your protesting, will be Batman. And despite your reservations and air thin opinions, he’ll probably do an okay job.
Just wait and let the excitement mount.
Its merit will be judged in time.
Nicely put!
James Bond’s pistol of choice was a Walther PPK, not a PP7.
“The most common variant is the Walther PPK, the Polizeipistole Kriminalmodell (Police Pistol Detective Model), indicating it was more concealable than the original PP and hence better suited to plainclothes or undercover work.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_PP
It was called a PP7 in the video game erroneously.
“Most of the game’s firearms are modelled on real-life counterparts (although their names are altered),”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoldenEye_007_(1997_video_game)
(Stands up)…Slow Claps…
I agree that we should just wait and see. But I disagree with your assertion that Hollywood is smarter than the rest of us. Hollywood was going to cast Tom Selleck instead of Harrison Ford in Raiders. It was going to cast Dougray Scott instead of Hugh Jackman in X-Men. I think the main point to get across is, to paraphrase William GoldMan, that no one in Hollywood (or anywhere else) knows anything. So, let’s just see what happens. We are all going to go see this movie no matter what anyway.
Hollywood has its missteps, absolutely. Understand I do not think of Hollywood as this well-oiled, clean machine. However, most of the complaints people register with the Hollywood machine all have to do with the machine responding to the market. Complaints for a lack of originality stem with the tides of sequels and reboots are really all just a response to what the market is demanding.
That being said: William Goldman’s argument was that Hollywood, an an organic entity, did not understand exactly what was going to bomb and what films would hit at any given time. It said nothing of casting, which is a strictly human error when it turns out someone was casted for a role that they do not play well. However, the casting directors of Hollywood probably ARE smarter than us in regards to casting roles. Fans typically immediately go for the aesthetic, or the physical, when these types of roles are cast, but whatever potential lies beyond the exterior. This is why people seriously wanted Triple H for years to play Thor.
Boiling it down: I manage a comic shop. So I, inherently because it is my business to do so, know more about running a comic shop than Joe ComicBuyer does.
Does it mean I don’t make mistakes? God, no. I make mistakes all the time, but given my training and experience, 9 time out of 10, I probably would run a comic shop better than the person just buying the comics. Just like these guys.
So let me modify:
The peoples whose jobs it is to cast films in Hollywood – Casting director, Producer, director, Studio heads, etc – are smarter than you. Not because of their intelligence, or because you are unintelligent, but because of experience. They see the screen tests, they look past the exterior because they have the ability to do so, they talk with the actors and actress and get a feel for what they will be like in the role.
And again, it’s not a perfect track record, but the last few years of superhero film adaptations have been received pretty well, even with what were widely considered terrible casting choices.
It’s not that we’re smarter than Hollywood (we are), but we as fans actually CARE about what gets put out and profits for the sake of self-perpetuation.
@Nightwing97: Will all due respect, most people in Hollywood are really smart and most know what they’re doing. Based on most reactions to casting news and/or casting suggestions in comments sections, if most comic book fans were put in charge of making movies the industry would crumble to the ground.
@Conor True enough… I just feel that Warner looked at Marvel and thought, “Hey, people like Downey!”
And, yeah, we would tank the industry… But we’d tank it with love. 😉
@Nightwing97
As I stated above, if fans chose who played these roles we wouldn’t have had Craig as Bond, Bale as Batman, Ledger as Joker, Ruffalo as Banner along with most of the Avengers team except for Robert Downey Jr. Marvel Studios has built a franchise giant by simple “not caring”, and with DC trying to go in the same direction I am sure every possible care is being taken. Whether that care conflicts with your personal taste or perception is another story.
“Marvel Studios hasn’t built a franchise giant by simply “not caring” ” was how that was suppose to go. Sorry about that.
@JimPunchFist But the difference is that the casting for the Marvel films was done by the individual directors. Favreau hired Downey, Branagh hired Hemsworth and Hiddleston, and so on.
This very much feels like a corporate stunt and not organically done by the director (though my trust in Snyder is non-existent anyway).
“Ben provides an interesting counter-balance to Henry’s Superman. He has the acting chops to create a layered portrayal of a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent and bears the scars of a seasoned crime fighter, but retain the charm that the world sees in billionaire Bruce Wayne. I can’t wait to work with him.”
Other than obviously playing nice for the public, that doesn’t sound like someone that’s too eager with the choice either. He sounds forced and not impassioned with the choice with his generic description. You could say that about ANYONE chosen to play Batman.
@Nightwing97 — Have you ever heard a press release that didn’t sound disingenuous?
Currently, we do not know Snyders involvement in the casting decision other than those words in the press release. And if they wanted to pull a stunt, why not hire someone with current star power? Why hire a guy that’s been directing thrillers for the last few years?
There is some measure of faith by them, in this man, that he will help propel a franchise they hope to perpetuate into the 20’s and beyond, and that includes a substantial monetary involvement in him and this film. I don’t think, at least I would hope, that decisions weren’t made lightly. Something about him, maybe unclear to you, made them say “this is our guy.” And I am inclined not to disagree with them, again, for reasons cited above.
Just f.y.i. Jim. Comparing Oscar caliber actors like Craig, Ruffalo, and Ledger to Ben Affleck is not really fair. Mr Affleck has a huge body of work; ive seen 90% of his films and most of his performances are awful (and this is coming from a guy that owns two thousand movies of all genres).
Having said that, his last few performances were improvements and it is not out of the realm of possibilities that he could bring his A game to this. He won’t bring any muscle but hey what’s muscle next to acting chops.
I don’t see it as unfair to compare these actors. All of them have been lambasted for superficial reasons when chosen to play their particular comic roles and all of them have played in oscar winning films, except for Daniel Craig.
Beyond that is the land opinion.
There are plenty of people that have been in Oscar winning movies but there are far fewer people who have consistently put out work that rivals the work of many oscar winning actors and actresses. Affleck is a good writer and director. He is not as good of an actor as Craig, Ruffalo and Ledger. That is my opinion and i would stake my life on it being the academies opinion as well.
I agree to a point. Craig’s range of acting, in my opinion and although I like him as a presence quite a bit, is probably within the same range as Affleck’s, but maybe I’ve missed a film that really put him on another level. The other two I would agree with. I always find people overlook Affleck’s role in Good Will Hunting, and the little speech he gives Matt Damon towards the end. He can carry a scene well and deliver the right amount of drama without the “melo” prefix.
Ultimately, we are debating opinions and I do respect yours. Who likes who, their capabilities, and our observations on potential will vary. The men you list, some already had received Oscar acclaim, were still doubted when they were announced. We knew their potential and they were still judged. I understand, to a reasonable extent (The petitions are very silly), the apprehension, but I still believe he has the chops.
You are a gentleman Jim! Just saying. I love Good Will Hunting a lot. It was one of my favorite movies for many years. I used to make people watch it, and yes it was one of Affleck’s believable roles ( I liked him in it). The girl with the dragon tattoo remake was a pretty impressive Craig performance although i haven’t seen near the percentage of Craig’s work as I have of the other actors mentioned, so I probably shouldn’t comment further.
You have a good rest of your weekend sir.
@Conor – If most comic fans were in charge of Hollywood casting, every movie would star Nathan Fillion and Idris Elba.
Idris Elba is fucking awesome Deadpool. Have you seen Luthor? or the wire? Nathan, ya he is a TV actor. Firefly was fun though.
Hollywood Execs are smarter than us? Smarter than I? Hmm let me look at From Justin to Kelly, Gigli, Catwoman, Green Lantern, Batman and Robin, John Carter, Jack and Jill, Disaster Movie, Scary Movies 1 through infinity, Epic Movie, and assorted others and then get back to you with my thoughts on that. Oh, I’ll also give Bendis’s Fortune and Glory a reread as well.
“Cleveland 1935. Elliot Ness, fresh from his legendary triumph over Al Capone-”
“Wait a second…This Elliot Ness. Who owns him?”
“What?”
“Who owns the rights?”
“No one. He was a real guy.”
“No, I don’t think so. No there was a movie already. I remember it-”
“‘The Untouchables.'”
“Yeah-Yeah! ‘The Untouchables,’ with Connery and Deniro.”
“Yes.”
“Paramount made that, no?”
“Yes, but the movie was based on the old t.v. show…That was based on the book…written by the real Elliot Ness.”
“…”
“No, I don’t think so.”
“No, it is. Eliot Ness was a real person..”
“…”
“…”
“No, I don’t think so.”
@KevinAB: “Hollywood Execs are smarter than us? Smarter than I?”
Smarter than you, specifically? I don’t know you, so I don’t know. Smarter than comic book fandom in general when it comes to making movies? Yes. For sure. Absolutely.
Let’s also collectively compare Marvel’s movie offerings post Iron Man to DCs during the same time period OR compare Marvel’s films pre-Iron Man to its films after IM. Which do we think were better overall? The ones that were able to be done with Hollywood resources but without Hollywood decision makers involved or the ones that went through the traditional studio system?
I know which ones I feel are stronger as a whole, but what about everyone else?
I’m sure Hollywood has smart people in charge of a lot of things, but if Arrested Development taught me anything, a lot of it is pure BS.
So wait, did the fans pick marvel’s movie casts? They picked Chris Evans, Chris helmsworth, mark Ruffalo, Jeremy Renner? Not to mention the electic cast of Guardians of the Galaxy.
@KevinAB
Again, I should have realized that comment would be taken more personally than what was intended. As a group of people whose priority is to create a successful film that makes money, yes they are.
It is their job. Not to say they don’t make mistakes. They do. Hopefully, this doesn’t sound rude, but I differ to my above arguments for the rest of your comments, as I feel they accurately explain why I disagree.
Ultimately, if it was up to the fandom, all comic movies would all be in development hell perpetually.
I would also like to express, after some thought, this argument was not made naive of the many superhero failures of the past few years. I have read the after mentioned Goldman “Screen Trade” duo and Bendis’ own book. I understand Hollywood about as well as any person who does not operate within it and can be cynical about its nature just as much you are.
Not as individuals, but as the organism responsible for almost all moviemaking in the U.S, Hollywood is collectively more experienced at making and casting hit films than ourselves or the gatekeeper fans who get the most riled up about this sort of thing. Even the most die hard fan has no real experience casting a film, the privilege to information such as screen tests or private interview with the actor/actress, or the lack of bias to properly cast the film without some eye cast of (mostly) physical aesthetics (Which we have seen do not necessarily make the role) or continuity.
I feel like I’m gonna get lost in the ether of comments but here goes…
I honestly don’t care. Affleck is a good actor and his track record, along with his directorial efforts, have proved so. What strikes me odd is seeing such a big name being attached to a comic book character again. Lately, apart from Downey Jr., most actors have gotten their fame AFTER they did a role. Chris Evans wasn’t considered an A-lister before being Cap, neither was Cavill for Sups, or even the villains were of the A-list variety. Usually bigger stars would go for the minor, less notable roles like Anthony Hopkins as Odin or Michael Caine as Alfred.
So to have Affleck, a very big name, be attached to a big character is certainly odd. Not enough to go into a fanboy rage like on Twitter but it certainly makes me think. Seriously though, the amount of negativity on social media over this is mind-boggling. You’re perfectly okay with Affleck, with a beard, in Argo but putting on a cape/cowl with a Bat-symbol? Suddenly we crossed a line!
It’s not that mind-boggling. Ben Affleck isn’t just famous. He is also infamous for films such as Pearl Harbor, Gigli, and Daredevil. Most people view Affleck as an actor who though basically a joke at first has matured tremendously and become an excellent filmmaker in his own right by taking more grounded, serious roles. Indeed, none of the films he has been lauded for seem similar to Man of Steel or the role of “Batman.” This would be the Michael Keaton reaction all over again EXCEPT Ben Affleck HAS BEEN in films analogous to Man of Steel or a role as Batman and those films were when he was terrible. People like to compare fan reaction to this to their reaction to Health Ledger’s casting and to Michael Keaton’s casting. It is a totally different beast though.
@KevinAB: But what does a guy have to do to prove he’s moved beyond those creative and/or financial failures?
Pearl Harbor came out 12 years ago. Gigli and Daredevil came out 10 years ago. I haven’t seen all his movies, but if we call Clerks 2 a low point (I sure do!), his track record over the last 7 years is really solid.
Are people flipping shit because they derive some perverse pleasure from being outraged, or is 2003 truly the last time they paid attention to Ben Affleck?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending movies like Daredevil or Pearl Harbor at all (never saw Gigli), but how much leg work does a guy have to do to prove he’s not the same person he was a DECADE AGO, you know?
I’m currently the same age Affleck was when he made Gigli and Daredevil — I sure as hell hope I continue to learn, mature and get better as a professional and as a human being in the next ten years. So even if we didn’t have a handful of films to prove he’s developed as a creative professional, I’d expect (naively, perhaps) that common sense would tell us the Affleck we saw in 2003 won’t be the same Affleck we’ll see in 2015.
@KenOchalek
Exactly.
These pretzels…are making me thirsty!
“No, no. See, that’s no good. You don’t know how to act.”
Pointless question: IMDB list the movie as Batman vs. Superman is there a chance that will be the title or is it officially Man of Steel 2?
I did a little digging and found three sources that report “no official title” as recent as yesterday. Though I do remember Snyder mentioning the title “Batman vs. Superman” at one of the SDCC panels. That’s most likely where IMDB is getting their title.
Personally I loathe the title “Batman vs. Superman”. I think it conveys the message that the two are enemies, bloodthirsty for a taste of each other’s throat. If that’s what Snyder and co. are going for, I consider that more bad news.
@WheelHands Same here, man. They aren’t enemies, they just do the same thing differently. They butt heads, but they’re still friends. I hate how Snyder and co. are defining these characters…
I don’t even think of them as friends, honestly. They’re allies. The same goal with different methods. I think the idea that they’re allies but not friends is a much more interesting approach.
It’s better than pitting them as straight-up enemies.
so i guess that would make Matt Damon Robin then,
all i know is that the Jokah is gonna be wicked pissed.
Ok, let’s pretend we can have nice things for a moment.
Director: Affleck (don’t care for him as an actor, but do as director)
Screenwriter: Grant Morrison (With Waid and Scott Snyder as consultants)
Batman: Karl Urban
Superman: You know, Cavill was not the problem with MoS. Keep him.
Alfred: Jude Law (Interesting, no?)
Commish Gordon: Bryan Cranston
Lex Luthor: Mark Strong
Plot synopsis: In the aftermath of the devastating battle between the alien Kal-El and Zod, business-man and philanthropist Lex Luthor steps in to finance the rebuilding of the Metropolis. While doing so, he begins a campaign for the planet-wide deportation of “Superman.” Supes, still reeling from the murder of Zod and massive destruction he caused, wonders if maybe he should leave. Nobody is supporting him, save The Planet and his mother. Not the biggest fan-base. (Side-note, I’d play this up with some of what happened in Birthright)
Over in Gotham City, billionaire playboy Bruce Wayne (well established as the urban myth “Batman”), doesn’t trust what Luthor is doing, but isn’t fully ready to trust a seemingly omnipotent alien. While investigating Luthor by day as Wayne, at night he stalks the alien to see what he’s about.
That’s my VERY general synopsis. I know I’d like my favorite writers to work on it, but like I said: We can’t have nice things. So I’m writing my own script and don’t want to fully spoil it.
Another thing that I’d experiment with is showcasing the dichotomy between Batman and Superman, a la Apollo and Dionysus. I think I’ve explained that more in other threads. Thoughts?
Mark Strong is Sinestro, he can’t be Lex. Sorry but I love him as Sinestro too much.
I’m hesitant to see Grant Morrison write a feature length movie, much less a Batman one. Paul Dini might be a better choice, with Morrison, Waid, and Snyder as consultants. Personally I’m tickled pink about imagining what Zack Snyder and Scott Snyder would be like working together.
The rest of the cast is solid, tho Urban is not MY first choice; but a valid one.
Synopsis is pretty good, except about Superman leaving. It vears too close to “Superman Returns”. Plus if Superman is about never giving up, why would he give up trying to win people over? I remember the scene in MoS where he tells the General “You’ll just have to trust me”. There’s alot of evidence to support Superman is a stand up guy, but you could play up the idea how confident he is in winning people over and that Luthor’s campaign isn’t a threat to him at all. Or that he struggles with having to save lives in Metropolis if people hate him and don’t trust him (sort of like how Clark Kent gets treated at the DP. See “All-Star” and “Birthright” for examples of this).
Also, at some point in the movie Bats and Supes need to fight. Or at least confront each other. People need to see how someone like Batman can even be in the same League as Superman. That even though he’s human, he could take on Superman. So somewhere in your script you need to demonstrate Batman’s prowess. For more ideas and inspiration, I recommend “Lex Luthor: Man of Steel” by Azzerallo and Bremoja (Bromejo? The guy who drew “Joker”).
Yeah, if one thing was good about GL it was Strong as Sinestro…
I figured Morrison because he has a handle on both characters and has actually written a few screenplays (that haven’t seen the light of day, but are good reads if you can find them). Paul Dini is a good choice, though. Don’t know why I didn’t think of him. And would Waid want to stay as far away from this as possible, or take the reigns to redeem what disappointed him? I’d like for the latter to be true…
Urban’s just my pick… Cus’, you know… 😉
And I wasn’t really thinking Superman Returns (god no), but more like in Birthright when Lex had turned most people on him (albeit for another reason). And him considering leaving isn’t the WHOLE plot, but just the precursor to him meeting Batman. I figure it might be an interesting turn of tide if BATMAN actually had a higher approval rate than Superman for awhile. Then, towards the end, Bats can kind of have a cheese-ball moment saying that Earth might not need him (we do, and he knows it), but there’s really no reason to leave.
And I agree that they have to butt-heads at some point. There’ve been too many Bat-cave encounters, so I’d like them to meet in the Fortress (Ship?) of Solitude. Batman could have found out how the little crests work and have Jor-El fuck with Supes the next time he enters. And I LOVED Lex: Man of Steel (Lee Bermejo 😉 ). That always seemed to me a kind of prequel to TDKR (given they’re awful resentment towards each other), but could DEFINITELY be mined for inspiration in this movie.
Most importantly, I want this to be done differently than what most are already expecting: “Bad guy comes, they meet, fight each other, then kick bad guy’s ass.”
It’s too generic and DOES NOT do The World’s Finest Duo justice at all. I hope at least Snyder, Goyer and whoever the hell helps understands this much. There needs to be fallout from MoS, new territory taken than from the DK Trilogy, exploration of the duo’s relationship (cannot stress the importance of this), and a solid ending that leads somewhere other than the obvious JL (wishful thinking, right?).
I’m not surprised that Morrison’s screenplays never got filmed. I’m sure they’re great reads and interesting, I just don’t think his story telling style would swing very well in a movie. And these movies need a good amount of continuity, which I think really hinders Morrison. Look at “All-Star” vs his Action Comics run. When Morrison has to play by others rules, I think his stories suffer.
Paul Dini has a long history in tv and I think wrote “Mask of the Phantasm”; a fantastic and emotional Batman movie. Plus the Arkham games show how versatile he is. Waid would be a wild card. I’m sure he would JUMPat the chance to “fix” MoS, but I’m worried he would take it too far. I think his feelings might cloud his judgement too much. He and Morrison know Superman, I admit that no question. But MoS is different from the one in the comics, you can’t just jump him back to the old school version. Personally, I’d try to get Johnathan Nolan in there to work with Goyer, I feel like he added some great layers to the first 2 DK movies. In this scenario tho, it’s important to keep things concise and small. GL had 4 different screenwriters and then 1 guy came in and rewrote the whole thing. Keep it to 2 or 3, with Goyer a definite. With Dini added maybe you could push MoS towards “Superman:TAS” and Johnathan Nolan could be there to add layers and subtext.
I just don’t buy the thing about him leaving, not seriously. It could be a moment, a scene; but Superman thinking about leaving for a prolonged period? Can’t happen. I mean if he can keep from punching a hole through those bullies in MoS, I think he could stick out anti Superman rallies in Metropolis. I think it’d be better to show struggle to decide to stay, committing to that choice while his Clark Kent persona has a peaceful or overlooked time at work. Actually, what if at the DP he saw why the common people felt he needed to leave, and learns what he needs to do to regain their trust?Maybe Batman shows up to help with this guy Luthor (who it turns out is a bad dude all along) and tries to convince Superman who sort of lashes out at this outlaw from Gotham coming to his city, HE’s the real menace. Which leads to Batman taking out some sort of cybernetic armor and holding off Superman until he calms down (this lasts 5-15 minutes, not running throughout the movie). Then maybe Batman goes after Luthor through revealing his dirty laundry and secrets while Superman works on his public image. I don’t buy that Batman knows to hack alien tech, before he’s even met any aliens. Plus that Krypton tech seemed more complex that just sticking a crystal in a hole.
I think it’s important to show Bruce and Lex interacting, how they’re different and how Bruce begins to suspect Lex is a baddy. Maybe at the end Luthor steals Batman’s mega Bat-suit plans and makes them even more powerful and lethal? But Batman should be seen either briefly, or thoroughly the entire movie acting behind the scenes or moving things along so it’s more significant when the WFD meet again each time.
About the JL, I’ve been thinking; are Bats and Supes vital to the other members film survival? GL bombed, but what if the World’s Finest was seen in the other movies interacting with the lead (Aquaman, GL, Flash) and audiences see why this character is important to the overall narrative DC is trying to build. Maybe instead of MoS3 or JL, we get a World’s Finest with maybe Amanda Waller and a few others as the antagonists?
A petition to remove Ben Affleck from the Batman/Superman movie has garnered 30,000 signatures in 2 1/2 days as reported by MSN.com.
Yesterday I wrote that no one was proposing an online petition to remove him and boy, was I wrong. Personally, I don’t hate the guy so much as to sign something, but it goes to show how many people do not wish for Affleck to take up the role. Also, I don’t think the petition will have an affect on the decision unless it got 100,000 signatures, then things could get interesting.
Even at 100,000 it won’t make a difference.
If there were online petitions in 1989, you would have seen that many signatures to remove Michael Keaton too.
Because of access of petitions through the internet today, this devise has more of an impact on/with the public than a movement would have had in the 80s.
All I’m doing is wondering what, if any effect, such a huge number of signatures may have (as of this moment its at 40,027), but the truth is I don’t know.
On the other hand, the ease-of-access to online petitions makes it very easily dismissible by Hollywood. They’ve said it on many occasions. Now, if Warner Bros. suddenly got, say, a million hand written and mailed LETTERS it might give the execs pause. That shows actual effort and commitment and shows that that person might make an actual effort to not go to the movies. But signing an online petition requires virtually no effort and they know that.
And even 100,000 doesn’t represent a significant portion of the intended global audience for a movie like this. Even at $20 a ticket (which is above average), that’s only $2 million in lost revenue (which isn’t really lost since most of the petitioners will still go see the movie).
So if it hits 100,000 that means Obama has to comment on it right?
God that would be so hilarious if he did.
@TheNextChampion: I’m pretty sure they got rid of his having to publicly respond after he had to comment on the Death Star. I could be wrong.
@Conor Wow, because health-care is more important than Batman?
What ludicrousness is this?
@Nightwing97: …….?
“On my planet, we call that a joke…”
@conor: It probably depends on the subject and I doubt something like this would worth warrant. (Unless they wanna joke about it which to give credit this administration is quite okay in doing.)
But yeah, after the Death Star request they did have to change some of the policies to the petition site. Namely it had jump from 25,000 signatures to 100,000….which I don’t think it was hard for the Death Star request to hit that mark which always makes me laugh.
Petitions, whether in the form of a physical letter, online, or telepathic means have varying effects: The t.v. series Jericho was renewed for a season after being cancelled because fans sent truck loads of peanuts to the CBS offices. That’s a petition and as stupid as that sounds it worked. Again, do I know if this effort against Affleck will work? I DON’T KNOW.
My initial comment was that a petition [could] have an effect, yet I recognize that it could NOT have any effect on this project. Also, I wrote I wouldn’t sign a petition to remove Affleck from the project, but now registering surprise at the fact that someone has done just that. Thousands of people have. These are all observations, for fuck’s sake!
@TreeoftheStoneAge: Mailing in peanuts to CBS isn’t signing a petition, it’s sending physical mail, which the studios have always taken seriously for the reasons stated above.
And of course they are your observations… and people are responding to them… which is what happens in a place meant for discussion, right?
@ConorKilpatrick: Yes, you’re right about the function of message boards. I got a little defensive. Sorry.
Of course, sending peanuts is not a petition in the literal sense, though it is a form of protest. Signing an online petition to remove an actor from a film is a form of protest. Because this action is taken in a non-violent/physically confrontational sort of way, the two methods while different in approach have the same intent.
All I’m saying is someone make sure to save that petition, then in 2 years when people pull their thumbs out of their butts and are like “oh, that was better than expected, ok!”… then re-post all the names on that petition under the heading ‘Knee-Jerk Crybabies Who Should Be Banned from the Theaters Until The Day They Die”
No problem with Affleck as Batman except for one practical concern. I once read an interview with Jon Hamm who said that the only head (physically) bigger than his in Hollywood was Ben Affleck’s. I always feel like the cowls (in all of the Batman films) makes his head look a little bulbous. So with Affleck…basically I’m worried about him looking bobble-headed when he’s going toe-to-toe with Supes.
That’s a legitimate concern…
http://www.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/201128/300.bale.cm.3811.jpg
Now Jon Hamm would make an awesome Batman.
Firstly, I’m loving the discussion on here, mainly because it is reasoned and thoughtful rather than hysterical and ignorant as it has largely been on Twitter and other forums.
Personally I like Ben Affleck and think he will do the role justice. I think people have their own idea of who would be the perfect embodiment of their favorite character, and it is usually impossible to fulfill because that actor doesn’t exist.
I’m interested to know, apart from Jon Hamm, Karl Urban and Josh Brolin, who would have been a better choice? Given a couple of people have said they have a lot of actors preferable to Affleck. Who are they?
I’ll go out on limb with this. After giving it a little thought I think the best actor to play an old bruce wayne would be Tom Selleck.
I’ve had my fingers crossed for Hamm for a very long time. I could write an essay on why I think he’d be perfect, but I’m not gonna do that here. When I heard they were looking for an older Bruce Wayne, and since Hamm had worked with Snyder before, my already high hopes hit a sonic boom. Which made the crash back to Earth all the harder.
I was never on the Urban train. I love the guy to peices, but he’s not Bruce Wayne to me. I’m a fan of Brolin’s work, but that choice never really digested well for me either.
When I said I could think of least a dozen actors that I’d rather see in the role than Ben Affleck, I meant it. And I still do. But it would take me a while to come up with a full dozen honest choices. My problem is that Hamm’s been my top choice for so long, that my heart wouldn’t really be in the list. That fact prepared me for disappointment. I’m no dummy. But I still wasn’t prepared for Affleck.
If this discussion continues, I’ll pop in with other choices at random.
Tony Cox
Affleck is the wrong actor for this role and the Dark Knight Returns is the wrong story line for this first time teamup. Its also the wrong story line for a Man Of Steel Sequel. Warner Brother is trying to do way too much in 2 hours worth of Film.
Reading through all these new comments, it amazes me how many people don’t have their facts straight. They’ve either missed important updates or made inferences that aren’t true.
Hollywood Reporter has said Affleck is actually signed for a multiple picture role as Batman.
Like him or not, Affleck is Batman for the next couple movies. However many that may be.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/why-ben-affleck-said-yes-613658
BATFLECK
Deep breath in ……. OK, so I’m not completely pissed about this, and not fully on board yet, but I will say this. Looking at photos of Affleck with a beard and the dark hair. I see a very cartoon looking Bruce Wayne and believe this can work, but then I watch DareDevil and think, Oh God No! However; some of Affleck’s acting work as of late has been pretty good, and well received all around. If he can drop the Boston accent, he could be workable. After all Batman doesn’t really need to have lines does he???
“After all Batman doesn’t really need to have lines does he???”
And that’s the kind of thinking that made him sound unintelligent in the Nolan films…
Ben isn’t the reason I won’t be seeing this in theaters, the first movie is the reason. I wish he was directing this rather than only starring. I would’ve liked an unknown but they obviously wanted a star. My only hope is Batman is Indiana jones type action adventure fun. The world is dark enough I don’t need the trend to continue any longer. Also, please no more rubber wetsuit Batman.
Are we still not allowed to +1…? Because this probably deserves one the most out of the WHOLE INTERNET right now…
@nightwing97 thank you! This was a nice comment to see.
I like how everyone that likes Affleck as Batman seems to be saying “But you never thought Michael Keaton would be a good Batman.”
Yeah, and I never thought George Clooney would be a good one either! So i’m batting 500 on this subject. 🙂
Ha.
Man George Clooney is one of those guys that actually learned how to act after making dozens of movies. Like Affleck he literally fucked up so many people’s movies on his way to becoming a legit actor. George can now really act. Have you seen his last few movies. Pretty fucking heart wrenching performances. The dude literally improved incrementally. At least he admits how shitty he was on Batman. I actually thought Val Kilmer was going to make a good Batman, Ha. That drops my percentage down a bit i think.
You are batting 500.
It’s funny, but a buddy of mine at work told me this news and I thought he was joking. When i found out it was true I was disappointed. Not because I have any sort of feeling about Affleck but, I mean, they JUST, announced this film. I’ve heard some opinions about who should be Batman but have heard nothing about Snyder meeting with different actors as to who might be the best fit. If I’ve missed something I’d love to know. It just feels really rushed and therein lies my disappointment.
Is he the right guy for the job? I don’t know, but I hope so. Being Batman isn’t the challenge. Portraying the public persona of Bruce Wayne is. The fop that is “Bruce Wayne” should be a source of great comedy and is he the guy to sell that? We’ll see. I’m ready to give him the chance.
@Crepizzle, you know that MoS2 was greenlit even before MoS1 was even released. And it was only announced that Batman would be in it a few months ago, so the makers already have loads of time ahead of us on this movie. For all we know, Affleck was chosen months ago and only just revealed. So I’m sure they met with lots of actors for the role and Affleck was just who they wanted or the best they thought. If you’re worried about Affleck portraying Bruce Wayne as a “fop”, consider all the jokes and derision Affleck’s gotten over his career, not to mention what he’s getting now. It should give him some insight on being the butt of the joke. But I’m glad you’re at least open to him in the role.
I think it was smart on their part to wait until AFTER Comicon to make the announcement. lol
Yeah I think it’s pretty safe to assume Affleck was in talks with WB for a while, from what I’ve read even though they are just rumors Nolan really pushed for Affleck to direct JL because he felt Affleck was a strong enough director that he wouldn’t have to be very involved in the production of JL and could move on to other projects. When WB first offered Affleck JL they wanted Bale to come back and offered him 50mill but like Conor said Affleck doesn’t want to at this point direct a movie unless he is acting in it so Affleck declined but Bale didn’t want to play Batman unless Nolan was direct so he declined. My guess would be at that point WB started to work the Batman role so that Affleck could play him and would direct JL. Now this is all rumor but it does kinda match up with the info Conor has so I think something kinda like that happened.
@ScottE, that does make alot of sense. Maybe WB is pushing this Godfather role on Nolan that he just doesn’t want. Which I get, but its kind of a shame? Hopefully someone can step up and push the JL into exesitance somehow. I admire Nolan and Bale holding onto intergrity tho and not taking the money. The same reason I admire Raimi and Maguire even after SM3.
So uh, this is happening:
“Bryan Cranston signs to be Lex Luthor” (In several films!)
http://metro.co.uk/2013/08/24/bryan-cranston-confirmed-to-play-lex-luthor-in-batmanman-of-steel-3936111/
Several sites are reporting it. But most of the respectable sites are reporting as yet unconfirmed.
Now that’s a casting I can get behind. As much as I agree that he’d be a great Gordon, Luthor is a meatier role, and one that all but guarantees more screen time. With an actor as good as Cranston, the more time on screen the better.
@WheelHands: I understand it isn’t confirmed 100% yet but what bugs me is that it seems NO ONE on social media is commenting on it. The moment they saw the word ‘Affleck’ and ‘Batman’ together EVERYONE freaked out. But the moment they see ‘Cranston’ and Luthor’ together? Nothing.
Probably because at this point it’s just an unconfirmed rumor.
I’m sure there will be more of a reaction when it’s official.
And good casting choices often make less waves.
Can Malcolm McDonald be Alfred please?
McDowell, ugh.
Sure. If you like your Alfred intensely creepy.
I like Hugh Laurie for Alfred.
He’s only 13 years older than Affleck, but that could be tweaked. Laurie could really nail the dry sarcasm, but still pull off the concerned father figure. Of course, this is all assuming we even see Alfred in MOS2.
I wasn’t going to get in on this thread, largely because I absolutely will not be seeing the film in question and have no further interest in comic book movies…
However, I think Ben Affleck certainly could play a really good Bruce Wayne. I believe that his take on Bruce will be similar to Michael Keaton’s portrayal of the character in the Tim Burton movies. In ‘Supergods’ Grant Morrison describes Keaton’s Wayne as child-like, distracted and whimsical (or similar) and that is the type of Bruce Wayne that I think we can expect from Affleck.
He will lack the lithe, scrappy physicality of Christian Bale, which could hurt him in the eyes of some fans, but his ‘public persona’ Bruce Wayne will sparkle for sure. You can forget seeing him do Miller’s ‘Dirty Harry/Travis Bickle’ Batman (because Affleck would be foolish to attempt that one), but I think a film version of Morrison’s super-confident mind warrior Batman will be very much within Affleck’s reach.
Personally, I think we’ll see Affleck play Bruce as a trauma survivor hiding behind a billion dollar smile. We might see shades of Engelhart’s Batman, or possibly Paul Dini’s Batman in this one.
Affleck is actually a pretty good actor and naysayers ought to re-watch ‘Chasing Amy’ or ‘Good Will Hunting’ to see Affleck in roles where he portrays a happy-go-lucky character on the outside, whilst harboring darker emotions like loneliness, jealousy and rage. He’s a proven leading man, a comic book fan and a guy who will definitely give the part his all. He cares about this one, at least, I think he does.
Honestly, I think he will likely be the best thing about the movie, especially since he’ll be acting alongside Henry Cavill’s creepy, insecure Superman and probably working against Snyder’s sloppy, directionless storytelling.
…Although, if a few good sci-fi movies come out between now and then, we may find that Snyder uses them as ‘inspiration’ for his own film and then his directing might not be quite so horrible. Sorry, that was catty…But totally warranted. The guy makes more money on a toilet break than most of us do in a year and yet his work screens like a recreation of famous scenes from other movies strung together by someone who was barely paying attention to them the first time out.
I’m not going to watch the movie, so the point is moot, but those are my thoughts, take them or leave them.
Sorry, I was cranky when I wrote this. This is my last ‘MoS’ rant on this site – I promise!
Bro, your posts are always the best and always make for good conversation. 🙂
Given time to think about this, I agree that Affleck may actually have something good to bring to the table. Where Bale was a slightly more angsty version of Miller’s Bat, I see Affleck as Morrison’s idiosyncratic sex-god Batman from JLA and Son-Inc. He may actually turn out to be the best that this movie will have to offer.
And here’s an observation: look at Bruce Wayne from the early episodes and Affleck next to each other. Not far off, eh?
As for MoS… yeah, let’s just get over it. I hated it, you hated it, lot’s loved it; there’s no changing opinions at this point and no reason to ruin anyone’s fun with it.
Edit: early episodes of TAS.
@Nightwing97, very mature of you. Honestly man, I was getting worried! You seem a little young to be having an obsession already 😉 .I think you got a point about early TAS Bruce Wayne and Affleck having a resemblance.
@APoetSomeday, that was quick; I didn’t think I’d see you so soon on here. And, here we go…
I don’t think we’ll see Morrison’s Zen Batman. Or really Miller’s, despite the quote used to make the original announcement. Englehart’s? I’m getting butterflies, one of my favorite versions on film? TAS would almost be as good too. But I honestly think John Bryne’s version will be a huge influence. This is all just speculation though, it could all three or none of them. I like that Supergods quote, that book always makes for good food for thought. I can’t see why Burton’s version of Batman could make a comeback. If his Bruce Wayne was distracted and childlike (a good analogy) then I think his Batman was matter of fact, prompt; if you think about it the that Batman always had the right gadget and usually won fights with a few simple punches. But he did a good voice, all you need to do for a Bats voice is drop your normal one a few octaves or deepen it. I’ve been wondering recently why Bale’s voice was just gruff and guttoroll in Begins, but in the othe two it was like an angry whisper. Not too different, but there is a slight change. But I hope Affleck channels Kevin Conroy’s voices and just deepens his as Batman and raises it as Bruce. It shouldn’t be too hard.
I’m alittle more concerned about what kind of suit will be made, will the cowl turn, all black? Black and grey? Blue and grey (one of my favorites, the Neil/Neil era…)? Black and grey? How about gadgets? Those questions I’ll be pondering the most.
But if we want to pursue what Affleck will do with his his Batman, we need only contrast what he’ll do with what we know about Cavill’s Superman. Cavill’s played as (in my eyes) strong, confident, Ernest in a few scenes. If Batman will more older and more experienced, he’ll probably be just as confident, stronger (mentally, psychologically maybe), but still suspicious/paranoid maybe with a backup backup. I wonder if they’ll give him a Robin? But based on what I just typed, maybe Snyder/Capullo’s Batman, Jeph Loeb’s maybe. I saw alot of modern infusions to Cavill’s Superman so I think we can expect the same for Batman. I actually haven’t read Waid/Morrison’s JLA (want to start at the beginning, but haven’t found the early books yet) so for all I know that could be the perfect source.
Interesting that you mention this… my initial reaction, after shock, was “I could totally see Ben Affleck as Bruce Wayne.” And I still can, much like Keaton. It’s the Bat I’m worried about. Now, Keaton pulled it off, but until I see Affleck in the cowl…
@Itho – Thank you for ignoring my angry MoS comments. You’re a better man than I, Gunga Din.
I was going to mention Jeph’s Batman earlier, but again with the physicality. The movie shouldn’t try and sell Affleck as a badass, he’s not that guy. Tough guys are tough guys, its not something you can teach in any acting class. Bruce Wayne is a tough guy, but he hides it behind a childish veneer of entitlement and privilege. I certainly believe that Affleck can/will pull that off if the script gives him that version of the character.
Again, my one doubt about Affleck as Batman is in the realm of physicality, the more physical, aggressive Batman (Miller’s or arguably Snyder’s) is definitely out, but Engelhart’s thoroughbred detective/living shadow is a definite possibility. Thinking back to the old Len Wein days will make a lot of sense if we’re considering Affleck in the lead role. I certainly hope viewers will see a more intellectual Batman this time around, he is a detective after all.
Also, when you think about the staunch, traumatized, repressed Batman of Morrison’s ‘Arkham Asylum’ (and to some degree ‘Gothic’ as well) and compare/contrast it with the rigid, decisive fighting style of Tim Burton’s Batman, I think we can see a way for Affleck’s Bruce to fight and dress.
As for Bale’s voice, I think the suit was too tight around his throat in the second movie (I heard that somewhere).
@ Nightwing – Yeah, probably for the best. Cheers dude.
@ Kenny G – Keaton was/is a comic actor, known for his quick wit and wily, somewhat enigmatic performances. He was a completely bizarre choice to play ANY superhero, much less Batman, but I really feel like he did a good job in the part.
If the fans of 1988 (when the choice would have been announced) had have had the Internet, they would have crucified him as a bad choice. High as they were on the ‘grim & gritty’ tales of Frank Miller, Alan Moore, Jim Starlin and (to some extent) Steve Engelhart. Tim Burton wisely opted for Keaton not to go around kicking ass and being presented as a tough guy when out of the suit. In fact, before the all-in action choreography of ‘Returns’ (the scene which I named ‘Attack of the Clowns’ is a personal fave), he was mainly seen to strike from the shadows and, as Itho pointed out, dispatch his enemies with a minimum of fuss.
I’d personally like to see this Batman as Sun Tsu, Niccolo Machiavelli or Myamoto Musachi, emphasizing brains over brawn, acting when necessary. If he is going to take out a being of Superman’s power (let’s face it, there will be a punch-up at some point), we’ll need to have established in the mind of the audience that Bruce Wayne’s greatest gadget (his mind) is in full working order.
Affleck is a good choice as far as I can see. I’ve yet to see a convincing argument against him, but if anyone wants to present one, I’m all ears.
@APoetSomeday, I wish I’d paid more attention in Poetry. “Oh Captain, my Captain”? Its all I got. Thanks for the kind words.
I would argue Batman is a badass in most incarnations, just because HE’S THE GODDAMN BATMAN! All kidding aside, all Batmen may not be as physical, but most of them are beasts at their thing.
I don’t think we’ll see a super detective Batman, (though I would LOVE THAT!). Here’s why, Those characters don’t work in movies. Or they haven’t been done, or they fail. I offer the Spider-Man movies as proof; in comics Peter Parker can talk with Reed Richards and Hank Pym and be on their level. He can invent all these cool new costumes and web fluid. He knows chemistry, engineering, literature (a Renaissance Man?). Look at Peter Parker in the movies, “gifted” but never brillant. Smart but never book smart. I think this is because to make a character relatable to a wide audience, they need to be as “normal” as possible. Not to smart, not too strong, not to lucky, not too handsome. I feel like the Greatest Detective in the World will feel in to the same curse as Spider-man. We may see a “smarter” Batman than Bale’s but probably not by a huge margin.
That’s interesting about Bale’s costume. I know in the second movie the costume was heavier, maybe that also affected him? Weird that he didn’t just ask them to let out the collar alittle.
@Itho – You’re probably right. Batman’s mind is what attracts me to the character, so its probably for the best that I won’t be seeing the film.
@APoetSomeday. I’m pretty sure this is the first time you’ve ever said that! I better mark this day down…
Yeah, you’ve said before you normally don’t like comic book movies anyway so skipping it might be the best thing for you. I could end up being wrong tho, nobody knows anything more than the casting right now.
While Affeck would not be my choice and never appear on my list of choices, I have to insist that for super-hero films, what matters the most is the production, from script to director.
Batman & Robin would NOT be a better film if you just simply switched out George Clooney and Arnold Schwarzengger.
Daredevil would not be a better film if you just switched out Affleck (and, well, the ENTIRE cast for that matter).
Ghost Rider 1 & 2 would not be better movies if all you did was take out Nick Cage.
The Punisher films had pretty decent Punishers (Thomas Jane, Ray Stevenson), but the movies still suck to a degree.
Wolverine Origins and Xmen Last Stand have a GREAT cast and are thoroughly hated.
Superman Returns they found a dude that looks like Christoper Reeve’s little brother and got Kevin Spacey as Luthor and the movie is as boring as watching paint dry.
Spider-man 1 and 2 are still really pretty good despite a lot of fanboy’s dislike of Tobey McGuire.
Also… WTF is this crap about Joe Mangiello? Ok, if we all want to hate on Affleck as Batman, then I do not get whatsover how Joe Mangiello fits the bill. What am I supposed to base this on? True Blood? Magic Mike? GTFO with that Joe Mangiello noise. Seems like to me a lot people would rather vote with their lady/man wet dream boners when suggesting Mangiello. If Aflleck is the worst choice, then Mangiello is 2nd to worst.
I dunno about all that. I think my biggest problems with Ghost Rider 1 & 2 were Nick Cage. And sometimes it’s not the line but the person delivering it that makes it work or not work. While there was some pretty cheesy dialogue in B&R, I think other actors besides George Clooney and Arnold Schwarzengger might have made it not as painful (Schwarzengger SUCKED so bad).
But, true, there are other cases where you get a great cast and the movie is still meh.
I partially agree and disagree at the same time.
It’s true that is very important to have a good material to work with, and a good production and director but also a great actor can (in my opinion) salvage to some degree, a bad/mediocre script and production.
Again, in my opinion, an example of that is Terminator 4: Salvation (sorry if anyone liked that)
For me it was a mess and the story they told just focused in trying to relaunch the franchise and forgot to capture the essence of the Terminator films. But the performance of Christian Bale, made the movie passable and even enjoyable in a few parts of it, for me.
CosmicBookNews states that with the big announcement from Warner Bros. regarding Affleck; his close friend Matt Damon could end up a superhero too.
The word is that Damon could end up in the role of Aquaman and eventually team up with Batman and Superman.
http://www.examiner.com/article/bryan-cranston-role-actor-rumored-as-lex-luthor-matt-damon-rumored-as-aquaman?cid=rss
Wait wait wait, you’re trying to give me a heart attack from something from the Examiner? Come on, @JesseCuster. I think Matt Damon is a spectacular actor, but I wouldn’t want him to play Aquaman. Why the he’ll would he want to do it more than once, just to try it? I’m sure he loved playing Jason Bourne, but I doubt he’ll want to do a 4th movie or take an another franchise. I just don’t see it. We’d probably get a Vinnie Chase scenario, one fantastic Aquaman movie with a James Cameron director and then a crappy/less interesting sequel.
Damn, I’m out of it. I meant @CharlieRock, I was going to reply to @JesseCuster next.
Sorry. Not trying to give a heart attack. Just thought it was something that was relevant to the overall comment section.
I might have overreacted, but still, had that come from a reputable source I don’t think I would’ve made it into work today.
I remember thinking when Chris Evans was cast as Captain America, “god this will suck…snarky, jokey, Johnny Storm?…what a bunch of dipshits”. He totally killed it. Guy had range he never had the chance to show. So I learned my lesson, and I’ll wait and see. Even trying to keep an open mind about Jamie Foxx and his crazy Tron face paint.
At the very least, Ben is a guy who’s easy to like.
“At the very least, Ben is a guy who’s easy to like.”
I think you got him confused with Jason Lee :p