We've been doing this website for about ten years, and podcasting and actually paying attention to the website for the last five years. In that time, I've seen the rise of "geek culture" and the "nerds have won," supposedly. We've seen Marvel get scooped up by Disney, and Warner Bros. finally turn their Sauron-like eye on DC Comics. We've seen film adaptations of Scott Pilgrim, Kick-Ass, Hellboy, American Splendor, and every superhero property they could scrape together into multiple versions of their franchises. They're on the third iteration of The Punisher, the third Hulk is on the way, and Spider-Man mark II fast approaches. If that wasn't enough, an actor won an Oscar for playing The Joker.
Yet, comic book sales languish. Many comic shops are struggling through a tough economy and cover prices of the very niche comic book issues keep going higher. Where's the new blood? Iron Man made more money than the GDP of most small countries, but the comic book sells less issues all over the world than theaters in Burbank sold tickets opening weekend.
So what's wrong here? We're all nerds now right? Free love? Gilbert and Lewis had it right all along, right? The Big Bang Theory is on TV? Nathan Fillion will be our king!
Me? I don't think the nerd factor went anywhere, and I'm tired of it.
To preface: be who you are. Be self-confident and comfortable in your own skin. Like what you like and don't apologize to anyone.
But most people, people who read other books, think most comic shops are still weird and nerdy places to be. They're not going to read a Superman comic book in public, or really anywhere. Because they think it's nerdy. More precisely, they think other people will think they're nerdy.
That's unusal, isn't it? I mean, the nerds have won, right? Wired magazine keeps telling me so. Maybe that's the case for some things, but comics, I mean actual comic books, haven't reaped the whirlwind of vast cultural acceptance. Sure, a graphic novel will break through now and then, but that usually means I end up having a conversation with some in-law who's convinced that graphic novels are not the same comic books. I italicize these words because of the odd intonation the public give these words. One is fancy and one is silly. You can make your bets on that one.
This is all because of the nerd factor. Honestly, I'm a little tired of the whole "new nerd revolution". I'm tired of parodies, and the odd deification of Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons. Hell, Comic Book Guy is probably the single biggest detriment to getting regular people to go into comic shops. Except for the fact that that silly cartoon is way too fucking real in way too many fucking places.
Did you see that clip on Bored to Death where they shot in Bergen Street Comics? It's a wonderful store. The owners are great folks, and the atmosphere is among the best of any comic shop I've ever been in. The bit on Bored to Death was a hatchet job. It's not because the producers had anything against comics, but jesus, how easy is that joke now? How easy is it to slip into that stupid Comic Book Guy voice whenever the occasion comes up. It's not funny anymore. A comic book reader in spock ears is the equivalent of the Speedy Gonzalez stereotype of Mexicans. It's outdated, lazy, and it won't go the fuck away. That's because comics fans are embracing it, and in doing so, they're keeping it living.
(Yes, I realize that comparing racial persecution to making fun of comic books is mostly absurd, and the plight of the Latino immigrant is much more important than that of comic book readers on niche television shows. But I'm trying to make a point!)
If I see one more news article with a vaguely condescending tone towards comics, I'm gonna lose my stack. "College Professor Gifts His Comic Collection" is tinged with the idea that the guy is a latent manchild, and he's finally decided to move on slightly. I can't go more than a month or two without seen someone using the hated "BAM! BIFF! POW!" in their ridiculous headline. They do it because it's easy, and no editor cares, and they think they're being clever, and 999 out of 1,000 people won't bat an eye, or even read the piece in the first place.
But me? I make my living in comic books. Comic book readers aren't any more weird or obsessive than your average sports fan. Sure, they're smarter, but that's beside the point. But still, comics are the outside thing that weird people do.
I'm guilty too. What's the name of this site? Doesn't matter, because it's too late to change it now. It was originally supposed to vaguely ironic, but I'm over trying to reclaim the word "nerd." I just want more people to read comics, and stop thinking of them as something for people who don't know how to date.
You might be wondering what my point is, and I wouldn't blame you. I don't have advice, and I don't want to tell anyone what to do, or how to behave. Personally, I try and project the image that I'm a regular (handsome and funny) guy, who loves him some comics. It doesn't mean I have trouble with talking to people, or that I live in my basement, and I don't have to wear something that says Batman on it every day. Or any day, if I'm being honest. I don't crap myself with excitement every time there's a rumor about Nathan Fillion possibly being cast in some superhero movie. There are very few things that will cause me to make the "eye roll and nerd huff" of indignation. Just because something references Star Wars, or Green Lantern, that doesn't necessarily make me think it's good. The fact is, I actually am somewhat of a representative for comics every time I step in front of a camera or a microphone, and my job is to tell people that comics are great, and they're more than just one kind of thing. And while I'm doing that, it doesn't hurt to seem like a regular person. I don't actually want to be a Nerd. Regardless of what you may have read, no one really does.
Or at least they don't want to be called one by anyone but themselves.
Find us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
Subscribe to our RSS Feed
Some rights reserved.
Bravo Josh.
I personally can’t stand The Big Bang Theory. My friend told me to watch it and that I’d like it(because it’s about nerds or whatever) and I couldn’t stand it. It basically is just enforcing the awful stereotype of any sort of "nerd"iness with cheap jokes and sex starved idiots bumbling over themselves. I don’t know many people who are like this and even when I go to cons, I see more normal seeming people than acne ridden people with pocket protectors talking about if Wonder Woman or Jean Grey would be better in bed.
I also have big beefs with people that reinforce this sort of behavior with their "nerd" pride. I have even bigger beefs when that sort of behavior gets hostile. I changed stores once because I went in with a female friend who is no strange to comics and the guy at the counter kept on making comments like "she walk in the wrong store?". Just awful. That store sucked anyway and is closed now and it’s no surprise with their alienating nerdier than thou bullshit.
Be yourself. Don’t define yourself by your hobbies, just make them an extension of your being. And stop thinking The Big Bang Theory is a celebration of "nerd" culture when really it’s just a poorly written show that is making a mockery of a hobbie that has been mocked to death.
Well said, Josh. I agree on all of that, 100%. Bravo.
Bravo!
The part about the sports fan = nerd is so telling. I cringe whenever I hear these sports guys rattle off stats or argue who was the best full back during the 1983 season (I hear it A LOT – I work near our sports dept.). And yet this seems more socially acceptable than saying you like to read Maus or Pedro and Me or some other non-superhero comic. (I’m not even tackling superheroes – you might as well be seen as a pervert for doing that.)
Could you imagine if the world was turned around? There would be 50 television channels devoted to comics, radio stations would program entire stations of creator interviews, analysis and reviews. It would be Monday Morning Penciler instead of Monday Morning Quarterback.
Anyway, yeah, don’t label yourself. Wave your geek flag proudly, but don’t wave it too high. Maybe make it more of a rally towel than a flag. Yeah, that should help.
First 3 commenters all said, ‘bravo’. What’s that say about comic book readers? Nerds, maybe? Haha.
Interesting piece, sir. If I may throw my two cents in, I think that this is indicative of a broader social need to self-identify, or even self-categorize. We all want to feel like we belong to something bigger than ourselves, and a large number of folks who may have felt like outsiders a bit because of how they behaved or even just the things they liked now have (what seems to be) a socially accepted category to identify with. Now folks who were called nerds and geeks in school feel that they can wear such a name proudly, a name which, perhaps, caused them a lot of pain in the past.
The fact of the matter is that, while the Comic Book Guy is certainly no great representative of the comic reading populace, there certainly are folks like him. Perhaps folks who don’t feel handsome and funny and feel that they’ve found a group in which the "flaws" that’ve held them back (even if only in their own minds) are not only accepted, but lauded. To self identify as a nerd or a geek is to take that which you have felt self-conscious about and turn it into a point of pride.
Are there better, healthier ways to achieve this level of self-acceptance? Indeed, there are. But if you are that Comic Book Guy, or you speak differently than everyone else, or you do legitimately get excited anytime anyone makes a Star Wars reference, this doesn’t mean that there’s something wrong with you. And if a person needs a banner under which to rally in order to realize that, then more power to them!
Just… y’know, don’t be a dick about it. Nerd.
Thank you! Seriously.
I think the truth is that most journalism about culture and trends is very shallow and stereotype-based. The more you know about any subject, the more misconceptions you’ll find. I mean, there is a lot of misinformation about nerd culture, but there’s also a lot of misinformation about politics, economics, history, poetry, etc. You can curse the darkness or light candle — and I’d say ifanboy has chosen the latter, which is commendable.
Otherwise, I don’t know what the point is in worrying about what people think about a topic they don’t know anything about. And I’ve said this before, the problem with Comic Book Guy isn’t that he talks funny or that he likes comic books, it’s because he’s a joyless bully, just like the problem with Ned Flanders isn’t that he’s a Christian but that he’s a judgmental busybody. Anybody who wants to create a good impression of their hobby (or their faith) should work on not being that guy. And don’t try to deny that real life examples do exist because they undeniably do.
Bravo for the article. i resent the labels of nerd/geek/dork or whatever. They are not fitting for me in any way. Yes i am a grown ass man who buys comic books. So what? My choice of entertainment does not define who i am as a person. There is no difference in someone who reads comics from someone who watches sports, or reads novels, literary magazines, plays video games, builds models, posts on gardening message boards etc. Its all about specific interests and personal enjoyment. I’d love to see a return to the term "Hobby" because for me, thats what all this is.
I really can’t stand when people waive that flag of nerd-dom or whatever. Stop creating divisions for yourselves and creating the cultural elitism that gets stereotyped. Its not geek/nerd/dork culture. Its just facets of pop culture. There are certain writers on the various comic sites (including this one) who keep perpetrating these divisions and i think they do more harm than good…i do my part by refusing to read their articles.
Wally, if somebody chooses to call his/herself a nerd, and you reject that label for yourself AND their right to use it, who’s creating a division, exactly?
As for "comics are no stranger an obsession than sports." Yes, that’s very true. Both are very enjoyable passtimes (yes, I’m a sports fan). And yes, people getting dressed up to attend games is deep down not all too different than somebody dressing up as Green Lantern for comic con. Both have subsections of fans that take things too far. So I agree in saying that the two are no different. But draw the line at being outraged or expecting society to view them the same.
There is one giant difference and reason society looks upon them differently. Sports exist in the real world. Comics do not. The characters in comic books are pretend in a make believe place in one’s head. The athletes on a playing field are not. Wearing your team’s jersey and rooting for your city is seen as a show of civic pride. It’s also a rather social hobby. Thousands of people get together for every game to hang out and share in their passion. People gather together at friends’ houses or go out to bars. It’s a hobby that encourages social behavior for the most part.
So as society views sports as a social hobby. Something lots of people like and can do together. Comics books represent the opposite for the most part. Reading a book (with silly pictures or not) is one of the few hobbies that exists that can not be immediately shared by a group of people. Nothing wrong with that. And it doesn’t mean you can’t get together with like-minded friends and bond over your love of comics. But it’s not nearly the same as sports, video games, drinking, or any of the other types of things people do that don’t get looked down on for.
It all goes back to school. Kids who played sports, did so with others. Kids who read comic books, mainly read them by themselves. Doesn’t mean one is better. They both have their draws and can be equally rewarding. But it’s clear why they hold different spots in our societal culture.
What I do find annoying though is the social stigma of comics in comparison to prose books. Both are telling a story. As a reader, you are in it for the same reasons. Both forms have wide ranges of genres, topics, and quality. I know I’m preaching to the choir here. But comic books can tell just as good a story as any other media. Yet the average person views it as a childish or ‘easy’ way to read a story. There’s less words, therefore it’s less complex than a ‘real’ book. Now THAT annoys me.
@SirCox Yeah i feel the same way about the Big Bang Theory. It’s like they’re super nerds, like the nerds on saved by the bell with their own show. No one is that nerdy about that many different things.
I agree 100%. It’s why I don’t care for Big Bang Theory. Not all science afficianados and/or comic book readers are Asperger’s anti-socials, and not all Asperger’s anti-socials are comic book readers and/or science afficianados.
I agree wholeheartedly, I try not to define myself by my hobbies but I’m also not ashamed of the stuff I like. But, and I think this can be said for most of us, I’m a funny articulate guy. as horrible as it may sound there are still a few stereotypical nerds running around making it harder for the rest of us.
also I dont really care about the word Nerd either, but I’d rather be called that than a dork. Dorks hate fun. Dont really know where geek falls into that but whatever.
@RoiVampire – Maybe nobody you know…
My point was, the label is being forced upon people who don’t want it because of what they choose for entertainment. If i tell someone that i read comics and like Star Wars assumptions about me as a person are made that aren’t true because of stereotypes etc. Its the catch 22 of all subcultures "what i like is the best thing in the world and i’m such an outsider from the rest of the mainstream world…i draw attention to this every chance i get, but don’t treat me differently." kinda thing.
I take it all as a grain of salt, I’ll hold my Nerd Flag with honor. If its the populaces misconception of Nerd then Fuck’em (pardon the french)
I find Big bang theory fun to watch, but sometimes it puzzles me when my wife etc. are watching, i think "do they even know what they are actually talking about"
and PS everytime Josh posts something like this i keep thinking he has some diabolic scheme and he is slowly rallying troops to support him, oh well i’ll wait patiently until he Pronounces a Nerd Uprising, or starts a Project Mayhem (that we don’t talk about)
I also wanted to say that I hate The Big Bang Theory with a passion. Mainly because it’s a terribly written, very unfunny show (If you know anything about tv ratings, the fact that it is very popular should tell you something). But also because it’s a walking, talking stereotype. The characters in it are beyond insulting as caricatures of ‘geekdom’. And the sad thing is that they are what is representing the things you like to most of the country (again, it does very well with the Two and a Half Men crowd, which makes sense seeing as the same production company makes both shows). You do realize that there’s a lot of people out there that know of the Green Lantern symbol as Sheldon’s shirt. That should be insulting to any self-respecting comic book fan. I’m not sure what the overall opinion of the show is here. Comedy can be a ridiculously subjective field. And by that, I mean that there are a lot of people out there that laugh at terribly stupid crap.
Sorry, had to get that out. I really hate that show. And it annoys me how many people give it a free pass simply because it indulges them with a few nerdy references.
Josh, that was awesome. I struggle with the idea of how I can do my part to get new comic book readers. I have two kids and I expose them to as much as possible. My 12 year old loves Batman & Tiny Titans. I’m slowly getting my 4 year old into Star Wars and Batman and Spider-Man.
I think j206 has a point about sports being seen as social and comics being seen as antisocial. And American culture, at least as represented in public school, for example, very much prefers (even panders to) extroverts over introverts.
But generally — isn’t this all perception anyway? Our best option will always be to have pride in whoever we are however we can.
Anecdotally, there’s a famous celebrity chuck who always talks about how she loves nerds. When pressed on it in an interview she defined a need as smart, funny, fashionable and talented. While it is certainly what a nerd strives to be, only one of those is accurate in the classic sociological conscience. The people who were once outcast as nerds simply go by a new name as their former nomenclature has been co-opted. I see as more an evolution of language and trend rather than of actual culture shift. As a culture we value the traditional traits associated with nerds no more than we did 20 or 30 years ago.
Bravo
Just to toss in one more cent, I enjoy the Big Bang Theory. Maybe it isn’t doing any good for the image of folks who read comics or are intelligent or whatever folks don’t like, but that Sheldon is one funny feller! H’yuck h’yuck, I’m sure.
Also, the whole "that’s Sheldon’s shirt" thing about GL? 1) I must not respect myself, ’cause I couldn’t possibly care less, and 2) That’ll all get cleared up when the movie comes out.
@CaseyJustic At first I thought you meant a Big Bang Theory movie and I was about to just give up on life.
So many paragraphs in comments. Maybe I should switch to sports. Just kidding.
Bravo Josh.
but, seriously, i’m going to respond to some of the things you said but don’t have much time so it may seem a bit haphazard
Firstly, i say this without my usual animosity; I actually think that you, Josh, present a very good image of comic fandom on the show and podcast which i appreciate.
Secondly, Comic culture as a whole isn’t free of the stigma of the Simpsons’ Comic Book Guy or nerd stereotype because both of those types of people still exist. Even after collecting comics for 2 decades i still get uncomfortable in certain comic stores. That typical comic fandom makes it that way
Thirdly, On some level, we all have to realise that superhero comics are inherently a little silly and take them as such.
One thing that a lot of people don’t realize is that YOU have just as big of a role in determing how people view you or the things you like. It’s been talked about here before. But there are more than a fair share of ‘nerds’ who see to it that reading comic books stays a social stigma. Either by being anti-social and aloof or antagonistic and snarky. Like Josh said, there are more than a few real life Comic Book Guy’s. Unfortunately, as long as those guys exist and represent us in public, that’s what we’re seen as.
I’m guessing that most of us are like Josh and consider ourselves to be very average, "normal" members of society. I myself like sports, music, movies, and comic books. Why should one of those things be viewed any different than the others? I think there’s enough out there like us. We should be able to swing the stigma our way. The problem is I don’t think enough are willing to try. Most are too afraid of being lumped in with the Comic Book Guy stereotype. So instead of reading a comic book in public as if it were a lengthy novel, they read them at home in fear of people thinking they smell. People have to be willing to step up to change the stigma. It will never change if all the normal people engaging in the hobby treat it as if they have a terrible secret. If that continues to happen, the smelly Comic Book Guys and Big Bang Theories will continue to be society’s impression.
Also, for the people who either skimmed or skipped my last long post:
The Big Bang Theory. From the people who bring you Two and a Half Men.
Comic Book Guy: The Comic Book, coincidentally one of the best quality comics out there.
And "Graphic Novels" & "Comic Books" are the same thing. Different words, same thing. Quit saying they’re not Josh. they are the same thing. Stories.
I don’t have a problem with being called a nerd, dork or geek. Know why? Because I am one. Not all at the same time, mind you, but I have from time-to-time exhibited nerd, dork and/or geek behavior.
When I go into excruciating detail about any subject (politics, comics, science), I am being a <blank> nerd. When I get that child-like excitement about something (comic book, movie, tv show), I geek out. When I get being silly and channeling my inner fanboy, I am being a dork. Maybe because I see it as a temporary affliction, and not a permanent state of being, that I have no problem with it.
My wife even has a button that says "I <heart> dorks." If that’s not worth embracing, I don’t know what is.
I don’t feel any stigma as a comic reader. No one has ever laughed at me, or kicked sand in my face for reading comics in public. In general more people ask my about what I’m reading when it’s a comic instead of a novel.
@KickAss: Josh didn’t say they were different. His entire point in that paragraph is that they’re the same but people who don’t read comics think there is a difference.
"Comic culture as a whole isn’t free of the stigma of the Simpsons’ Comic Book Guy or nerd stereotype because both of those types of people still exist. Even after collecting comics for 2 decades i still get uncomfortable in certain comic stores."
That’s what I was trying to say just now. Those guys are sadly the face of comics. I can’t say for certain as I haven’t read comics for decades like others here. But I feel that there are proportionally less of them than there used to be. It seems that the art form has taken on a more serious, more complex, and well-rounded form over the past decade or so. So where as in the past, there probably weren’t enough "normals" to take over. I feel that’s not the case anymore. I’m willing to bet that the creepy, smelly weirdos are more than outnumbered by the normal, everyday people who in addition to other things, happen to enjoy the storytelling medium of comic books. But that brings us back to what I was just saying. Whether or not this new majority is willing to risk getting associated with the Comic Book Guys in the process. As of now, the giant, smelly stigma is proving to be too big an obstacle.
"On some level, we all have to realise that superhero comics are inherently a little silly and take them as such."
Uh, yeah. This is true. It’s hard to defend a comic as "no different than any other story" when it’s setting is about as realistic as The Lord of the Rings. I find that one of my main defenses of comics when getting the same old tired lines. "They’re not just about superheroes!
Superheroes aren’t any sillier than the other extremely popular fiction out there. Harry Potter? Ridiculous. Twilight? Ridiculous. Da Vinci Code? Ridiculous.
Thanks for a thought provoking article!
I’m not sure where I stand to be honest. I spend horrendous amounts of money on comic books, The Big Bang Theory is my favorite sitcom on TV, I have my own horse that I work with every day, I’m a huge sports fan etc etc. Maybe because I don’t project (maybe I do?? :x) the stereotypical aspects of my hobbies/interests that I don’t mind this? Hard to say.. either case I hate how it’s tough for local comic shops and publishers to make money off comics. But you know, I won’t apologize, like you say. This is me. I buy comics and encourage others to do the same because it’s an awesome medium.
That is all.
I will also defend Big Bang Theory. It’s a funny show, but more importantly, it’s a sit-com, fer christ sake. The characters on the show are exaggerations of stereotypes (i.e., they are caricatures.) It’s the nature of tv shows to use caricatures, and if they were all "perfectly normal, well-adjusted human beings", it would be the most boring tv show ever. Do you think all cab drivers are like the ones from Taxi? Or, that all doctors act like the characters on Scrubs? Of course not. If Big Bang Theory offends you, you’re too damn sensitive.
@Gobo: yup. I don’t discuss Harry Potter with a group of mates because that’s a little strange. I wouldn’t do that with twilight or the Da Vinci Code but for some reason i do with comics and my friends hate it. I’m saying take a step back and think about it; it’s a pretty weird and socially inept move… IN SOME SITUATIONS, NOT ALL
One thing to remember is that the people sounding the "The Nerds Have Won" call are mostly media outlets referring you to things they or their sponsors want you to buy. They’re telling you that, for example, you’re "cool" if you watch Iron Man 2, but not if you know more about the characters involved than what’s on the screen.
And re: Big Bang Theory, I’ve long said it’s the Amos & Andy of geek culture.
@edward Like discussing anything, you shouldn’t talk about it when it makes no sense to. It’s not because it’s silly though. You shouldn’t just go "RA! SPORTS!" all the time either.
Great article josh.
I wish people in the entertainment world would stop making the easy jokes with comic fans and other ‘nerds’. I’m proud to be a comic, Star Wars, Lost, Simpsons, Doctor Who (slowly turning into one anyways) fan and anything else I can think of that is considered ‘nerdy’.
The Big Bang Theory is not a funny show to me because it does the cheap, easy joke. The one episode I watched (which is the most recent actually) has a character talking to an FBI agent. The amount of pop culture references and the delivery of the lines really made me upset. It’s watching a horrible stereotype at work. Then again it is created by the same people who still won’t fire Charlie Sheen (Two and a Half Men) so how well is their style of humor?
OK guys. Seriously.
Big Bang Theory is 100% harmlesss. It’s as much of an attack on geek culture as Family Matters was an attack on Black culture, All American Girl was an attack on Asian culture, and Golden Girls was an attack on elderly culture. It’s not trying to make a statement on our culture, vicious or otherwise. The only thing it’s guilty of is taking base aspects and molds cheap and harmless jokes. And is that really a bad thing? Are we really that uncomfortable with goofy sitcom characters liking what we like?
In my view, a nerd is conventionally someone who allows an obsession (comics, video games, sports, cigar, etc) from inhibiting them from living a healthy lifestyle, i.e. putting that obsession before things like work, school, family, etc. Like the differnce between someone who is a little cluttered and someone who winds up on one of those horder shows.
So the guy in Fever Pitch may be the biggest nerd ever shown on screen, or certainly one who rivals comic book guy.
@Conor, whoops sorry, missed that point. But yes.
@thursday–a nerd used to be someone in math club who takes all AP classes in the 10th grade and goes to a good college. Now its someone with a pull list. Fascinating.
Where’s my apology?
@Wally yeah when did that happen? when i was in middle school, i was a nerd because i had glasses and read books for fun. now it seems like all i really had to do was read a spider-man issue in public
I refuse to watch the Big Bang Theory, mostly because it completely eliminates the possibility that a female nerd could exist. Which, since I exist and my friends exist, strikes me as absurd. But I understand that the stereotypes they represent, as the only portrayal of comic book fans in mainstream pop culture, are problematic.
That said, I find it troubling when people draw lines between "regular people" and nerds. You say in your article that everyone should be themselves, but you’re also implicitly saying, "I try to show people that I am better than the assumptions people make about people who like my hobby." Which means that the people who DO fit some of the stereotypes, who do like to rattle off stats or wear Batman t-shirts, are somehow freaks who are giving everyone who reads comics a bad name. And that’s… that’s problematic. That’s model minority discourse. The problem isn’t people who have taken up "nerd" as a proud banner, who find pleasure in that identity. The problem is the societal hierarchies that convince the non-comic reading world AND the comic-reading world that being that way is wrong and undesirable.
I mean, the aspects of nerd pride behavior that involve being a jerk, that’s completely unacceptable. But the rest? The parts that don’t hurt anyone, and just involve being happy with who you are? There is nothing at all wrong with that, and there’s no need to split an already-marginalized community between the "us" of "normal" people and the "them" of "nerd pride."
To offer a different perspective, I’m not only a comic book nerd, I’m also a pro wrestling nerd. Have been one for as long as I’ve been into comics. And, much like comics got me into becoming an artist, I became a pro wrestler for a few years because of my love of that game.
You think being a comic book nerd stereotype sucks? Try being reminded that pro wrestling is “fake”, or that it’s a rediculous pseudo-sport that only redneck dumbasses follow. The haughty responses from people supposedly “smarter” than me. That was always fun.
I could have been angry about it. And I was. I didn’t appreciate the stereotype any more than Josh apparently appreciates the comic book nerd stereotype. But I also rolled with it. It was what it was. People are going to have their preconceived notions about what a group is like. If they cared to delve deeper into what the business was like, I was happy to answer questions. If not, well, not my problem.
So I guess that’s my response to this “faux” geek culture that has people (like my esteemed colleague & partner) in an uproar: whatever. The fad may (and probably will) pass, so let them have their fun and think they know what the culture is like. I’m still going to be here when all is said and done.
I’m still a pro wrestling fan, and that ship has long since sailed.
Oh yeah, and don’t get me started on being a manga nerd.
I live with two people who watch the Big Bang Theory. They also watch and enjoy Two and Half Men, Wipeout, MotorCross Videos and The Vampire Diaries – morons, in other words
@Roi+Wally – I always thought of "nerds" as people who were very smart to the exclusion of all social abilities. "Geeks," as I understood the term, were folks with a ludicrous obsession with one specific, often esoteric, area of interest, i.e. comics, literature, drama, horses. "Dorks," finally, were just folks lacking in social ability alltogether, without the hightened intelligence or specific obsession.
In this new, untamed frontier, however, all etymological bets seem to be off!
@ctrosejr – Big Bang doesn’t offend me in how it treats nerds. I’m not a nerd, nor do I indentify with anything that show does. So that wouldn’t offend me. What does offend me though is it’s quality and sense of humor. Like TNC said, it’s cheap and lazy. It’s made by the people who make 2 and a Half Men, the cheapest, laziest show on tv. The show is not funny on it’s own. It relies HEAVILY on it’s laugh track. Don’t believe me. Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmLQaTcViOA
Now I totally admit to being a comedy snob. I realize not everyone likes Arrested Development or Curb Your Enthusiasm. Most people don’t, for that matter. Shows like Two and a Half men and According to Jim dominate ratings wise. While all my witty, sharp critically acclaimed shows can barely stay on the air (RIP Party Down). I know I’m not the norm. But just because most of America likes something, doesn’t mean it’s good (Transformers 2, Deadpool comics, country music). In fact it usually means the opposite.
And I dare somebody to watch that Big Bang clip and tell me they laughed.
A manifesto for comic book fans. Something we have been in dire need of for awhile.
@throughthebrush I’m pretty sure there are female nerds on ‘Big Bang Theory’? It takes them a while to be introduced by Penny isn’t the only female character and the conflicts are not just universally ‘nerd vs. non-nerd.’
But as for the rest of it yeah. To quote Wil Wheaton (not the evil Wil of BBT) , "don’t be a dick" and the rest should take care of itself.
TTB,
You say in your article that everyone should be themselves, but you’re also implicitly saying, "I try to show people that I am better than the assumptions people make about people who like my hobby." Which means that the people who DO fit some of the stereotypes, who do like to rattle off stats or wear Batman t-shirts, are somehow freaks who are giving everyone who reads comics a bad name. And that’s… that’s problematic. That’s model minority discourse.
I see what you’re saying, but I have to disagree. What often happens is that (x) behavior is believed/assumed to be "inherent" to a particular social group. So not engaging in said behavior is seen as an affectation, rather than an honest expression of distinct taste. I’ve especially felt this paralleled in my own life, as I’ve had to deal with accusations of not being "really Mexican" because I don’t do (x) behavior or enjoy (y) hobby. I refuse to accept the premise that I must adhere to behavioral, sartorial or cultural standards – call it the "geek card." Just because I won’t cosplay Matt Smith doesn’t mean I love Doctor Who, and just because I’m not down with Power Girl’s cleavage window doesn’t mean I don’t love comic books. And to hell with anyone with suggests differently.
On the article: Great piece. It is a little disconcerting that the “geek” (i.e. one who is into things of a literate nature like movies, t.v., comics, etc.) is the outcast freak now, when this used to be the ideal. Would Thomas Jefferson or John Adams be considered “geeks” today because they liked reading and debating about things that in the end didn’t really matter to the average person?
On “Big Bang”: Yes, the writers go for cheep jokes once in a while. However, let’s be honest: the stereotypes do contain kernels of truth, otherwise they wouldn’t exist. Has anything been made fun of on the show that hasn’t also been made fun of on this or other comics-oriented sites? Also, there have been a lot of things that only comics fans would get. Examples: when Penny is looking for a book for her nephew, what does the store owner recommend? “Hellblazer”. Not an obvious book to throw out there. Also, the comic store on the show is nothing like Comic Book Guy’s store on “Simpsons”; it’s bright, well decorated and clean. When Stan Lee guest starred, Sheldon has to go to
court. Who was the judge’s name? “J. Kirby”. Finally, when Sheldon meets his “girlfriend”, what shirt is he wearing? A Purple Lantern shirt. Who but a literate comics person would get the symbolism? That to me speaks of respect for comics, not denigration.
I for one love Big Bang Theory, and I’m guessing that a lot of the people who are bashing the show haven’t watched a whole lot of it based on some of the misinformation and guesses people are making.
"Comic book readers aren’t any more weird or obsessive than your average sports fan. Sure, they’re smarter, but that’s beside the point." idk man what about people who read world of warcraft comics?
imo there are a billion different types of people who read comics. I mean hell, I as someone who reads pretty much only indie comics (ie stuff from drawn and quarterly) would certainly not identify on any level with people who read ‘superhero’ comics
@ABoyNamedArt Oh, I’m not saying that your existence is any LESS valid because of your tastes. But do you think that the people of your culture who do (x) behavior and enjoy (y) hobby are BENEATH you? Because if so, that’s the problem. I’m not saying people like Josh are wrong for enjoying comics the way they do. I’m saying that holding that up as a banner of superior "normality" is problematic, because it condemns those who don’t fit mainstream (white/straight/male/middle class/able-bodied/cis-gendered/non-nerdy) modes of behavior.
It’s the Cosby problem. Yes, it’s important to show a variety of representations of African-Americans, but when Cosby is held up as a standard, it implies that African-American people who don’t act "just like white people" aren’t trying hard enough, and are worthy of derision.
This is one of the (if not the) best articles I’ve read on comics and fandom.
You hit so many nails on the head here, Josh.
It’s not so much that "the" (pre-existing) geeks have one, it’s actually more like everyone has become a geek now. There are more geeks, period, and within the mass of geekdom, we comic geeks are still a minority. You only need to look at the San Diego Comic-Con to see how, even at our own convention, we’re in the minority.
Everything you said about getting over "Nerd Pride" was spot-on. Like you say, we should just be who we are, be comfortable and proud of who we are, and try to be better, more presentable people. Period. We love comics? We’re comic "nerds" or whatever? Fine! But that doesn’t mean we have to embrace stereotypical weaknesses of "nerds".
For God’s sake, it isn’t good or funny to embrace embarrassing, irredeemable social weaknesses just because they remind everybody of a caricature from The Simpsons!
It isn’t "Us vs. Them" all the time. We don’t have to feel obliged to fit into a nerd stereotype just to combat "The Jocks" or whatever. Because, as you say, most sportsfans or whatever…they’re pretty geeky in their own way, especially these days.
I might be the 50th guy to get into iFanboy and say "bravo, Josh, for the article!", but it’d still be worth it. I, for one, like the "Big Bang Theory" – my girlfriend (a non-nerd) got into many of the concepts of stuff I like through the show, and we watch it together. However, people do get out of hand when it comes to reinforcing stereotypes, and that is very true of some comic book readers. It’s okay to laugh at Comic Book Guy, but he’s not, by any stretch, a role model.
It’s also okay to be a professional and like comic books (or comic book movies, or comic book series, or games, or action figures). It’s also part of the job description – as a niche fan – to try and get people to enjoy what you like, without being pushy. If you do not fall into the trap of conforming to the stereotype, people will take what we like more seriously. At least, that’s what I hope. The survival of comic books as a medium depends little on movies, and more on our ability to talk to other people – potential new readers – and show them there’s something there that they might enjoy, like we do.
Again, congratulations on the very best iFanboy article I’ve read – and I follow you guys religiously since 2008.
@BC1 – Simply indulging the audience with references does not make the show funny. Kudos to it’s writers for having some knowledge. But they’re still playing with the Two & a Half Men play book joke wise. But hey, if it makes you laugh (hopefully without the suggestion of the unbearably omnipresent laugh track), laugh away.
is having a whole debate about something that’s off topic what the guys off the Big Bang Theory would do? i haven’t seen the show but i kind of feel like that’s what they would do and it’s exactly what’s happening here.
Meta!
I think an adult crying about comic book stereotypes is way worse than being called a nerd. For seriously you guys.
Because the racial analogy makes me uncomfortable and doesn’t quite fit, let’s throw something else out there: gay pride. There are a lot of people in the gay community who say, "Why do they have to have gay pride parades? Why do they have to put on all those sparkles and leather? That’s making people think bad things about us! We have to show straight people that we’re just like them, and people like Johnny Weir and Adam Lambert just make us look bad!" That’s pretty much what this article is saying about nerds. But Johnny Weir and Adam Lambert are just being who they are, and policing them for expressing themselves is more damaging to the community than what they’re doing.
Every nerd does not fit the nerd stereotype, just as every gay man is not Johnny Weir or Adam Lambert. But there shouldn’t be a hierarchy. Be who you are. THAT is what nerd pride is about.
Good analogy, throughthebrush. It all comes down to what type of person you are. Those of us like Josh (myself included), who don’t fall into the "geeky/nerdy and lovin’ it", take offense to the ones who embrace the stereotypes and want to paint the town with how nerdy they are. Just like I’m sure is the case with gay guys who aren’t like Johnny Weir or Adam Lambert.
I used to work with a gay dude who you would never have guessed had he not told you. He hated the stigma that the more flamboyant gay men set for society. But there was nothing he could do about it, because they were the ones making all the noise.
Correct.
@j206 But what I’m saying is, don’t direct your anger at the people who are just living their lives and not hurting you. Direct your anger at the maintstream sources who choose that as the only option for representation. Get angry at Big Bang Theory, not actual nerds. You’re just adding to the stigmatization by dividing the community.
@throughthebrush – Oh totally. I agree. For the record, I don’t think that is where Josh was directing his annoyance. I don’t think he was telling off the people who act naturally are nerdy people, who enjoy being that way. To me, it felt more of a "everyone is claiming we won. yet my profession as a comics journalist is eternally mocked! something doesn’t add up" Which I feel is a valid claim. He’s saying that nothing has changed in terms of how society views comic books and it’s readers. Which is true. Just my own take, but it was more a call to arms for people to not be ashamed of reading comics than it was telling off the true geeks. From my own perspective, I think the main reason the old Comic Book Guy stigma continues to exist is that the people who don’t fit that stereotype are affraid to lay claim to their comic bookiness. It’s a societal thing that’s sadly bigger than any of us. But it is indeed very frustrating if you are somebody who doesn’t define themself by ‘geek’ or ‘nerd’.
I’m just a normal dude who works a normal job who likes watching sports, movies, tv, playing video games, drinking, steak, pretty women, and who also enjoys reading comics. Why does one of those many awesome things need to instantly stick me into a dictionary defined category? It’s beyond absurd. If you do not consider yourself a geek, nerd, dork, etc, and you simply enjoy indulging a specific medium of storytelling, why do you immediately have to be categorized into a sub-section of society known for living in it’s mother’s basement?
The is absolutely nothing wrong with wearing your personality and interests on your sleeve. If you are deep down a person who uses a pocket protector and loves fantasy novels, that’s great. If you enjoy telling everyone you meet about how awesome Doctor Who is, awesome. But if you aren’t a person who takes pride in those things, strictly reading a story told in a certain format shouldn’t immediately label you as having bad b.o. and not knowing how to talk to a girl.
@throughthebrush – Thanks for bringing up… pretty much all the stuff you did. You said it better than I could. Division does nobody any good.
I know i’m posting a lot in this discussion. Sorry for cluttering it up. But it is a rather fascinating topic.
People who claim "nerd cred" don’t realize it. But in doing so, you’re really only adding fuel to the fire. Yes, you may feel good about it (and yeah, in a way, that should be all that matters. but my point goes elsewhere, so I’m going to ignore that for a moment). Yeah, that’s great. But in doing so, you’re just adding to the stereotype for everyone else.
It’s like throughthebrushe’s gay analogy. Yeah, it is liberating for the truely flamboyant gay men to act the way they act. But on a much grander scheme, they’re only hurting the most likely larger section of their kind by enforcing this stigma for them to have to live with. They are cool with it themselves. Because that’s all that matters. But they’re also playing into the joke that the other side doesn’t see as so lovable.
Think of it this way. Let’s use another analogy. There’s a stereotype that Irish people are drunks. You can be an Irish person who enjoys drinking, even take pride in that fact. Because being a drinker is a manly thing to be. But is it such a thing of pride when used as ridicule from an outside party? Not exactly. So when you live up your, "I’m Irish, let’s get plastered!" persona. You may be enjoying yourself and being true to you. But what about all the Irish people who aren’t stumbling drunks? They get to deal with your leftovers. I’m sure being the non-drinking Irish person who gets called a drunk all the time, or has to hear the stereotype constantly, isn’t as fun as being the one who enjoys living up that persona. You could do the exact same analogy with Italians from New Jersey and do the whole Jersey Shore thing, and it would be the exact same.
Yeah, it’s not fair. But it’s also not as simple as "I’m geek, I’m here, get used to it." Just because one is comfortable with an exaggerated and unfair stereotype and treatment from society, doesn’t mean it’s the case for others.
I’m a comic book reader who isn’t afraid of reading comics in public. But I totally admit to inherently feel defensive about it. I can only imagine the defense mechanism one might have if their entire living was based around the silly picture books. Unless you truly are a person who doesn’t care about anything (if so, sweet. but when being honest, very few fit that category), it’s hard not to. I’m constantly ready to defend comic books to friends when they find out I read them. I have this innate desire to let them know that it’s just as good a storytelling device as any book, tv show, or movie. And that it’s not just for kids. That’s not an indictment on me as much as it is on society. And quite frankly, it’s stupid that it continues to be that way.
I don’t mean to speak for Josh. But I think his frustration comes from that place. It just really shouldn’t even be a thing anymore. Especially if nerds keep yelling about how they’ve won. Which they haven’t. Unless you consider the mass media making money off of you the definition of winning.
the show "community" is a better "geek" show than "big bang theory" even tho it doesnt prop itself up to be one as a gimmick
Man, nobody’s doing anything wrong! We’re all awesome! Nobody’s won or lost, we’re just all being awesome together, reading and watching and playing and doing cool stuff, ’cause we’re all cool folks.
Let me tell you a story that I think will clarify things…
See, our whole universe was in a hot dense state. THEN, nearly fourteen billion years ago, expansion started… wait…
Who’d have thought that people classically considered nerds in our society might have strong opinions on the perception of nerds.
@peterporker – Word up. And even better yet, it’s actually funny.
Wow. Who gives a shit? Everyone stick a pin in their deep rooted inferiority complex balloons and move on. Seriously, there’s a Comic Book Guy for every interest: Baseball Card Guy; Wine/Beer Snob Guy; Art Gallery Guy; Organic Vegan Guy, etc… Just do what you dig with pride and stop having to justify yourselves to people who already share your opinion. This thing’s reading like the diary of the kid who needed Charles Atlas to keep the sand out of his mouth.
And reading your post is even more enlightening. Nice. 😉
Oh thank god I’m not the only one! Thank you Onlyjosh.
Well done Josh.
@ All the Big Bang Theory hate: don’t watch it, and please don’t tell us how stupid it is, and therefore how stupid all the fans of the show must be.
Yes.
It should be noted that I didn’t actually say anything about the Big Bang Theory. I’ve never seen a single moment of it.
We know, you hate fun.
I love the Big Bang Theory.
I hate Chuck Lorrie.
The thing is, the media and the general public will always stereotype a subculture. To the point that they will assume that because you read comics, you are part of the whole subculture of people who do fit the stereotype. It’s like with punk rock. Not everyone that was into punk in the late 70’s and early 80’s had mohawk and a safety pin through their nose. But I bet if you were a normal dude who happened to like The Sex Pistols, you got funny looks or what not.
@onlyjosh. That was sort of the point of the article…
"I hate Chuck Lorrie."
That’s all you need to know. You’re good.
I dunno. I kinda like the hobby where it is, as niche as it can be.
"YOU’RE CRAZY MANGAMAN! WHAT A NUT!"
*Ahem* just let me explain. Remember how the West’s exposure to anime had been this niche market in the 80s and all the kickass shit that came out? No? Ok I’ll list some for your amusement:
Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Lupin the III, Hokuto No Ken, Robotech, Mobile Suit Gundam, Thunder Cats, Ronin Warriors, Space Adventure Cobra, Battle of the Planets, Macross, The Wings of Honneamise, Cyber City Oedo 808. These are just a few fantastic series out of the many.
In the 90s the anime industry had a massive boom in North America, particularly in Canada and boy did quality take a fucking seat. What we got as a result of the exposure was a certain "taste" developing in the younger more mainstream audience. Those of you who ever been in an anime convention know what I’m talking about: Moei, Kawaii or "cutesy" shows for mainly girls and pedophiles. Long story short, it rubbed me the wrong way and had me isolating myself from the anime community for a good decade.
So as you can see the pessimist in me is really skeptical that anything good will come of being too exposed to the mainstream.
I can see it now: "ALL NEW ALL EXCELLENT! 10 YEAR OLD GREEN LANTERN!"
Blech.
You should try being a comic book reading, gay, vegan, punk. Then you can rant. Oh no wait, I still didn’t give a shit.
I meant to say "back seat".
*damn typos.
Are nerds self aware? It’s analogous to being insane. I’m not sure if someone can be insane while knowing they’re insane. So I’m not sure if I’m a nerd. But I doubt it. I like sports though, but just the NFL.
Does liking a fictional sport count? And no it’s not quidditch….
It’s NOT I swear. =|
You should try being a white 28 year old australian male – it’s HELL
To those who are bashing people for being honest about not enjoying comic books having a super nerd stigma. You realize you guys that being narrow-minded and inconsiderate to the possibility that not everyone thinks the way you do is just as small-minded and pig-headed as you’re accusing. Right?
Gotta love when a group of people can go out of their way to explain their side to an issue and then some. And how they can go above and beyond in trying to civily find a way to attempt to talk through a discussion. Only to have a few internet stereotypes show up with simplistic and ignorant two sentence retorts. Accomplishing nothing more than voicing their opinions, sans reasoning, and bringing very little to the table. Yeah, the way to get back at people giving honest opinions and reasoning is to tell them they’re stupid and that they need to get over it. Great contributions. You gotta love the internet. 😉
relax, nerd.
😉
Well put.
@j206 if you are defensive of something you are into I can only see it as being a personality thing, like Onlyjosh put it – an "inferiority complex". I’ll proudly read my comics on the train or in a cafe or wherever without giving my ‘image’ a second thought. I told a girl in my research group that I was into comics and she said "Ah, so you’re one of _those_". I said "yeah" and then we shared a "hehehe" moment. I couldn’t give 2 shits about the nerd stereotype or how comics are portrayed in the media, mainly because I don’t feel I need my interests, hobbies and personality traits endorsed by society as being cool. If you do then I see that as a personal problem and quite frankly don’t understand it.
@josh – Sorry Josh, misread what you wrote. (Actually just skimmed the article, busy day)
"Graphic novel" & "Comic books" stood out to me, so I made an assumption. Carry on.
My assumption was that the article suggests (it doesn’t) nerds tend to dislike the term "Graphic Novel" as it attempts to legitimize nerd subculture. My point was, let’s not argue terms. It’s all the same thing.
@deadspace-good for you. You are really proving J206’s point by your complete disregarding of his point of view because it is different from yours. The fact that you think its perfectly fine to tell people that they have personality problems because they don’t agree with you is fascinating.
@wallythegreenmonster – it’s got nothing to do with whether they agree with me or not. if someone is uncomfortable with a stereotype and feels defensive of a hobby due to it not being endorsed by society as cool then yes, I would say they have insecurity problems. and yeah, it is quite fascinating.
A lot of people are using selective bold-type.
I… just felt the need to point it out.
Um, great article!
@deadspace – I see what you are saying, but not all the things that happen to someone are caused by internal perceptions. Josh’s analogy using the Mexican stereotype is valid. A Mexican person who experiences prejudice because of a stereotype is not doing so because of their own inferiority complex. It’s happening because the other person is a bigot. No amount of positive thinking and self-acceptance will stop that other person being a bigot.
Comic readers (or Star Wars fans or any other fan of a labelled interest) who experience negative reactions from others are not necessarily lacking in personal confidence. Sometimes other people are just shallow and cruel. And while I support the idea that you should be proud of who you are, there are times it’s best to leave your interests (no matter what they are) outside. Work is a prime example. I don’t share my hobbies at work, because work is about getting the job done and paying my mortgage. I don’t label myself a nerd, but if someone else does it might effect their perception of me enough to effect our working relationship, and no amount of comic reading pride will pay my bills for me.
There is a place for showing everything about yourself, and not doing it everywhere is not a sign of insecurity. Other people are not always rational.
You’ve hit on a bunch of really important points here, Josh. Key among them is, I think, the point comparing sports fanatics with comic book fans. We all geek out about something, even if it’s mundane, and that’s why I prefer the term geek over nerd. It doesn’t feel as demeaning to me, at least in its modern use.
Just a thought: the reason I’m not in a comic book store on a weekly basis, even though I love the form, may have something to do with why the industry can’t hook more readers, and that reason is price. $2.99 a book was absurd when I stopped buying, and $3.99 is even more absurd. I have two kids and am only partially employed at the moment. If I could support the industry that I love, even with a book or two a month, I would. But I don’t have the cash to keep up with the habit and I’m running out of room in my closet to store the issues. That’s why I’ve moved to getting trades when I can (usually around Christmas) and just keeping up with what’s going on via sites like yours.
bravo (interj)
Seriously.
People are who they are regardless of what they’re into. For every stereotypical nerdy comic book guy, there’s a dude or dudette just as weird and smelly who’s into sports. It’s the way of the world. Let’s stop being so sensitive about all this, and love comics, spread that love, and be happy with who we are.
@edward – Your second post is excellent. Well said.
THat was as terrific article.
I should however point out that as a I read this article an advertisement for "GeekChicDaily.com" compelling me to "feed my inner geek", rests atop the screen. Their logo is a small pair of spectacles…
I also don’t like chucjk Lorrie – he creeps me out.
I feel like any minute his body is going to split open and an insect man is going to crawl out.
@FolkDad – Ha! Best contribution to this discussion yet.
Also, can we all bask in the irony of the fact that we’re arguing online in a comic book website’s forum about whether or not we’re nerds? I think that train has sailed, friends.
@CaseyJustice – Actually no. That was the whole point. Just because something’s based on comic books, it doesn’t have to be "nerdy". It doesn’t have to be anything.
Only you can allow someone to make you feel inferior. Embrace who you are, what you love, and who you love. Very little else matters.
As a great man once said, "I’m good enough, I’m smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me." Words to live by, people.
I’m talking about what’s keeping people from reading comics. I’m not looking for a pep talk. My self esteem could crush Buicks.
What makes a geek(the negative image of one in eyes of the public) is the attitude/character/appearance and not really the field of interest!
The geeks that were the physics and computer geniuses in high school, that are now still wearing multi-colored checked shirts, spending their evenings soldering CB radio parts in the basement after having dinner with their wives <- THEY are STILL nerds and THEY still read COMICS!
The former high school phys-whizs, that now have dark masculine, determined voices and are Nasa field-expert, THEY don’t read comics any more. ……. or at least that’s what the public thinks. And kids want to be the second, of those, not the first. Hope my Rep-point is clear.
We should talk about our comic reading like we do about what we’ve had to eat yesterday, or what great article we last read in the times or what movie we’ve seen last week with our fiancee. Be self confident, make clear comic reading is something completely normal and if your dialog partner thought otherwise, react as if he probably didn’t get the memo some years back.
I mentioned something of the sort (if anyone remembers) when there was an article about nerd pride and I essentially was annoyed at the whole notion.
I think it is important to ignore whenever the media tries to appeal to comic book readers, they are just looking to sell their product and do not care for the art or those who really support it.
Great article Josh
@delphan–totally agree with you. When you are viewed as immature by your coworkers because they found out you read comics has nothing to do with your confidence. You can not care all you want, but ultimately how those other people treat you is from steretypes and judgments. At that point the nerd stigma has caused you to keep your comic reading a secret vice.
When someone else decides that reading comics is juvenile and passes judgement on you in the workplace that has nothing to do with a comic reader’s self confidence. It means you have a crappy boss, but still a real problem (i speak from experience). We all want to be perceived and judged on our own qualities and abilities, not stereotypes. Comic fans don’t want to be automatically viewed as immature kids and socially awkward fat guys living in the basement any more than people with tattoos don’t want to be viewed as felons and dirt bags.
I was not prepared for this article. Damn good!
@josh: Isn’t it the same reasons that we always talk about — the cost of books, changing taste, competing interests, and the distribution model? Comics used to sell in the millions, and I am not talking about the speculation in the 90s. I hardly think its people’s perception of ‘comic nerds’ that’s keeping people from picking up a book.
I think there is a lot of "woe is me," going on around here. You know, there are always smaller niches. I was just at a HeroClix event this weekend, where we had 50 people and thought it was a HUGE success. Compare that to the attendance of your typical comic book convention. It’s not even close. And, I am sure there is another niche out there that is jealous of the 50 people we had.
Why can’t we look at what’s going on in the industry and say the glass is half full? The product (i.e., the books themselves) have never been better. Taken as a whole, the art and stories are 10X better than they were even 10 years ago. More creator-owned books are being published than ever before. Independent titles are gaining a larger share of the overall market. Trade sales are still brisk and bringing in a wider audience of readers. Digital comics are poised to take off. Ten years of blockbuster super-hero movies have created a new generation (of young kids) who love super-heroes, guaranteeing that these characters will live on for years to come.
To me, THIS is the Golden Age of comics.
@ ctrosejr – Bravo sir! Agree completely.
This article reminds me of a song… "Don’t Call Me White" ?
Yea, thats the one. I’ma have to get on that, REEEE-MIX! "Don’t Call Me Nerd" anyone?
My only problem with Big Bang Theory is people that it does make fun of thinking it’s somehow on their side. It’s laughing at us, not with us folks.
@josh–i think the nerd stigma and accompanying stereotypes is keeping people from comics, and at the very least out of the comic shop.The "comic shop guy" perception is something that say a married, college educated professional might be weary of aligning himself with. They might be more willing to check out a trade at Borders than wander into a shop to check out whats been happening with Batman in the 15 years since they stopped reading comics. As Ctrosejr says, comics have never been better and i agree, so it MUST be external factors that are killing sales and keeping new people away.
@ctrosejr—superheroes might not live through comics in the near future. Take my 8 yr old nephew…obsessed with Spiderman…movies, toys, games, cartoons…has no interest in reading comics. They are "too boring" as he says. Younger people don’t read…they are too distracted by other forms of more exciting media. Maybe that combined with the lack of a real great all ages line of comics is keeping new kid readers away?
@ActualButt – But who is "us" ? Nerds? Geeks? Comic book readers? I think if you include yourself in Big Bang Theory’s "us" then you’re not really getting the point of the article, other than the fact that those characters supposedly also read comic books.
I love the Big Bang Theory. Those nerds are just so damn funny and nerdy. I love laughing AT them. Am I laughing at YOU?
DUN DUN DUN!!!!!
@ctosejr Thank you. Those are all excellent points.
The thing is, whether it’s about boosting your own self-esteem or some impulse to "protect" the industry, going on about how cool/normal you are and how comics are more than something nerdy STILL devalues the life experiences of nerds. It’s the Glee problem — this idea that if you get the hot jock and the lead cheerleader to join Glee club, then Glee club will be saved! …and then the actual outcasts are pushed to the background and never given solos.
The real problem with comics reaching a wider audience, beyond the reasons ctosejr pointed out, is that the industry refuses to make any real effort to appeal to people who are not white, straight, male adults. More "cool" white dudes will not an improvement make.
About once a week one of nest friends and i talk about the mythical comic shop we would open. We always agree on one thing, NO GAMING will take place in our shop. Now before i continue i want to say, I FULLY SUPPORT TABLE TOP GAMING.
Throughout my comic reading life i have shopped regularly at about five comic shops. Some of which held gaming every night. The problem with gaming is it takes up a lot of space and provides a haven for the "comic book guy" type nerds to hang out. (I AM NOT SAYING EVERY GAMER IS A COMIC BOOK GUY, i once gamed myself) but it is those two or three guys who decide to make the comic shop their hobbit hole.
Some comic owners will argue it is just another form of revenue to bring in froma customer that already comes in to the store. This may be true for some games like Magic, but for many of the games, these guys don’t bring much in terms of proffit to the store. What they do do is perpetuate the stereotype of the sweaty, know it all, vulgur, loud, NERD. My girlfriend is scared to go into my current comic shop because of these gamers, but when I am home from college at my non gaming store she will hapilly walk to the walls.
I know this may seem like i am SH*Ting on the gamers, but i am not. Gaming has its place and it certainly can be fun, but a storefront is not the place for gaming. If you have a home, use it, have friends come over, just stop "nerdin" up my store and keeping people from ebing comfortable with their local comic shop. Every store can take a page out of Bergen Street’s book, it was an amazing store and i made a point to tell the oweners that they understand that comics, trades, and Graphic novels can stand alone and with class.
But that’s just me…
Fantastic article! There is definitely a stigma attached to the comic medium. What I’ve fervently tried to rail against is the whole "I don’t read comics; I read real books" thing. I have explained the graphic medium to my coworkers and attempted intelligent discussion, but it always devolves into a discussion about how they don’t get superheroes and by the way, aren’t comics for kids? Call me a nerd all you want, world, but until you understand the medium and are willing to give it a try, don’t talk to me about how ridiculous spandex-clad heroes are and how you’ve never enjoyed a comic-based movie (and then proceed to argue with me when I tell you that Red, Road to Perdition and A History of Violence were comic book movies).
I wish more people got it. I share my discoveries, review comics online, and talk the medium up as much as possible because being involved in comics is one of my favorite things. I’ve converted a few, but by and large the majority of people I encounter in my E. TN town aren’t going to pick up a comic. And that’s OK. My enjoyment of comics isn’t wrapped up in the lady I share a cubicle wall with reading The Walking Dead, just like a NASCAR fan enjoys the Sharpie 500 whether or not I’m sitting next to him/her at Bristol Motor Speedway. The fundamental issue is that people don’t want to take you seriously just because you like a little art with your literature.
I’m not sure if people are reading between the lines here. "Too cool for school"
@ttb – I agree that the industry has issues with reaching beyond it’s existing audience. Very little is done to demonstrate that comics, even (god forbid) superhero comics can be a riveting, worthwhile reading experience to demographics that aren’t already reading comics. If anything, I think that this "nerd revolution" will help alleviate that problem as long as people can focus on it’s true intent:
It’s not to say that every nerd is a "Big Bang Theory" character, but rather redefining what that term means.
By taking a word that has been used to insult and belittle countless young people for generations, a practice that has sent many folks into therapy and many others into the caverns of low self-esteem, and turning it into a badge of honor, one can embrace the things about themselves that others have derided. They find support in others who enjoy what they enjoy, and with this support that can stand up and be themselves, without fear of ridicule.
Why be ashamed of the title? Why take offense? Because the "cool" deem it a derogatory term? Comics are nerdy, at least according to… most of the world, and the way to change that isn’t to protest loudly from the corner that we’re cool too! The way to change it is to own it. Be a nerd! That doesn’t mean you should slap on a pocket protector. It’s just a way to show that there are lots of different kinds of nerds, nerds from all walks of life, that each of us are individuals who just happen to have common interests that inform our personalities. It doesn’t make us more or less worthwhile, it just makes us us.
And the sooner we stop begging for acceptance the sooner we’ll receive equality.
@ed209AF–i hear you on the NO GAMING thing. one of my local shops does that on weekends. Its a crowded shop to the point that the fire marshall will have something to say about it. Needless to say you can’t browse for any comics. People have game stuff everywhere. Basically Friday through Sunday that shop is closed to me, which sucks because thats when i have time to go look around. So i take my business cross town to another shop.
@ttb Exactly! It’s the whole "let’s make Supergirl’s logo pink so girls will read it" thing. We don’t want pink logos. Most of the ladies I’ve seen sporting pink Supergirl hats and tats are not comics readers. You can make Wonder Woman’s logo pink plaid with hot rod flames and it won’t make me any less bored with the current story arc.
I feel like the message to be taken from the article and resulting discussion is this: Josh Flannagan does not need your titles or your acceptance! That motherfucker will knife you!! He’s from MAINE!
Finally, someone *gets* me.
Huge response , and probably too late , but a question about books vs comics? Are comic book sales crashing because people just arent reading any more! Are book sales falling too in the youth demographic? If we can get graphic story telling on a par with regular books then we can change our future, along with our industry.
Not really sure book sales are a good gauge of ‘how much people are reading.’ Libraries, etc, have too big of an effect. But basically every year, you have people saying reading is ‘in decline’ combined with what I see as plenty of reasons to believe this is not at all true.
Oh my goodness. Discrimination in the workplace? Inequality?
…wut?
@delphan: "I don’t label myself a nerd, but if someone else does it might effect their perception of me enough to effect our working relationship"
Are you for real?
@ohcaroline Yeah I feel the same way. People have been saying kids aren’t reading for years but everytime a harry potter book came out i would see a whole store full of kids, and some adults, ready to get that book at midnight. same goes for lemony snicket and tons of other series, sadly, even twilight. hey at least it gets people reading
Interesting article (and one that reads as though it were borne out of a bit of frustration, to put it mildly)… but I haven’t read all 140+ comments, so I’ll briefly tread upon some territory that has surely been brought up here already in the thread: everyone’s a nerd, and every fan of everything gets stereotyped. We live in a world where some circles look at "college educated" and "intelligent and well-spoken" as negative things, for crissakes.
But comic fans are perceived of as "nerds" just as sports fans are perceived of as slobbering frat-boys and NASCAR fans are perceived of as white-trash and fans of rap music are perceived of as gangstas and theater fans are perceived of as gay and vampire fans are perceived of as moody goths and video game fans are perceived of as arrested man-children somewhere between nerd and jock and Phish fans are perceived of as stoners and… the list goes on and on.
The truth is we’re all our own nerds, Josh, and things like Spock ears and Captain America shirts provide a sense of community to the comic and fantasy and sci-fi fans in the world, much like a Phillies cap or a concert t-shirt provide that sense of community to sports fans or music fans. I understand that you get that, though; and I understand your frustration with being perceived as something you feel you’re not just because you love comics, just as I do (along with theater and baseball and other things). But sometimes people who love something gravitate towards portraying the stereotype because they want to, and that’s okay, too. People want something to belong to, and they want to belong to each other, and they want to identify themselves as a part of something bigger than themselves.
@deadspace – Yes I am. wallythegreenmonster has obviously had a similar experience. I respected your view and offered an alternative one. If we even show contempt for each other, what chance do we have to attract new readers. which is ultimately what Josh is concerned about. And you have proven that his frustration is warranted.
@deadspace – Certainly, for young people, those lines and discriminations between "cool folks" and "nerdlingers" (pardon the technical terms) are all too real, and harrassment can really mess a person up.
I agree with almost all of the excellent points in this article. Well said. Read what you like, watch what you like, listen to what you like, and make no apologies for what you like. High school is over. Life is too short to worry about what other people think. No one expects any of us to be a champion for a stereotype. Get busy livin, or get busy dyin.
* ed209AF’s comment above is actually mine. We share a computer at work and I forgot to sign out of his avatar. Don’t wanna speak for anyone else even though we both agree with the article and it’s something we talk about constantly. Just coverin my bases. Also, now’s as good a time as any to take full credit for ed209AF being an iFanboy. Which reminds me to add this to my comment above; share the websites you like.
Check this out for Nerd Pride.
http://thechive.com/2010/11/09/when-celebs-and-fans-collide-hilarity-ensues-30-photos/stars-and-fans-6/
Oh, yeah, that’s perfectly normal
@delphan sorry, i just can’t take seriously the whole idea of being discriminated in the work place because you happen to read comics in your free time. i can’t even think about that and keep a straight face. you must think pretty lowly of your workmates if you think they would treat you in a negative manner for enjoying such an inoffensive hobby. i’ve met my fair share of arseholes in my life but i can’t honestly think of anyone right now who would act as you are suggesting.
@CaseyJustice kids get bullied for anything and everything. and everything is so flavour of the month when you’re a child. the stereotypical child nerd is likely to get bullied because he’s a quiet, socially awkward, easy target, not because he reads about spider-man. but that’s kind of off topic anyway as delphan was talking about in the work place.
@deadspace–the world is full of all kinds of people who do very irrational things. I don’t know how long you’ve been a working adult, but i can tell you from experience it doesn’t take much to get on some people’s sh#t lists. If that same person is writing your checks or deciding on whether or not you get a promotion or raise, having them view you as immature can be a big problem, even if the root of that is completely irrational…like they see you talking about taking time off to going to comicon or heard you waited hours in line for opening night of Star Wars.
Just because it hasn’t happened to you or you haven’t met someone like that doesn’t mean its not possible. Do you really have the gall to tell other people that their personal life experiences didn’t happen to them?
Now I remember why I rarely post comments 🙂
Let it go wallly. Not important.
Have a good day deadspace
@delphan–but but someone’s gotta win! ok not really, you’re right.
hey josh i really do respect your opinion, alot even.honestly, you really do have GREAT taste in comics but half way into this article i started busting up laughing.
@Josh-I’m totally stealing the “my self esteem could crush a Buick” line. It’s perfect!
Sorry if this is repeating someone else’s post but….
An important thing to understand when watching the Big Bang Theory is that it’s really not about mocking nerd stereotypes. Its about people with deep rooted issues crawling out of their (largely) self-imposed caves and learning to interact with the rest of the human race. This is highlighted by the fact that the show semi-regularly features nerds/geeks/etc who are socially adept, charming, and likable. And yes, there are actually nerdy female characters. And as for the main characters; a lot of the long term drama centers on them dealing with their very realistic social ignorance/neurosis/etc. Speaking from long term personal and social experience; this show actually gets a lot right. Both in the lengthy process of growth; and in the seemingly small personal victories that are in reality very important for the individual experiencing them.
@Josh, doesn’t seem like anyone pointed this out yet, but the "Bored To Death" character at Bergen Street with the elf ears is actually based on a friend of Jonathan Ames named RevJen Miller, a Lower East Side performance "art star" who is certainly an eccentric, but no comic book fan. I think the juxtaposition of character and setting was unfortunate.
@wally, delphan, deadspace
I agree and disagree with all of you. I feel it is true that "nerds" are still looked on negatively in todays world. But it is the self definition of the word that defines the ammount of negativeity. As a college student i see it all. IE: I have seen the group of kids who have ZERO friends outside of their circle, these are the kids who where naruto headbands and keep a deck of magic cards with them at all time. I have also seen the kids who you don’t even know are "nerds". The kids who may wear a black lantern shirt here and there. These kids associate themselves with as many friends as possible, friends with different passions, interests other than their own.
Assuming college is a miniature community mirroring that of the real life social structure, i can only assume that it is upon one self to be the "nerd" they want to be. If you are comfortable with the social conditioning of your "level of nerd", then by all means, be that, but you can never expect EVERYONE to accept you, regardless of who you are. This applies for any special interest. (I hate kids who like sports too much)