iFanboy vs. iFanboy: The Origins of Mr. Freeze in BATMAN ANNUAL #1

Batman Annual #1 by Scott Snyder, James Tynion IV and Jason Fabok

From: Paul Montgomery
To: Jeff Reid
Re: Mr. Freeze in Batman Annual

Jeff,

Great job on the Mr. Freeze retrospective in DC Histories yesterday (which I’m linking to for no particular reason). I’m curious. How do you feel about this new take on the character from the Batman Annual? There’s some changes, certainly, but do we want to call this a…polar shift?

P-Money

 


 

From: Jeff Reid
To: Paul Montgomery
Re: Mr. Freeze in Batman Annual

Hey,

Mr. Freeze comes away from the Batman Annual being fundamentally changed in the reader’s eye if not his own. With Nora no longer being Freeze’s wife but his misplaced obsession, he comes across as an update of the third Clayface and no longer a unique character in the Batman mythos.

Let me explain that Clayface thing for a moment. Preston Payne, the third person who called himself Clayface, was a villain who would literally melt anyone he touched. Being cut off from humanity, and the disease that caused his condition, slowly drove him insane. During one of his escapades, he stumbled across a mannequin in a store window. Preston thought she was a real woman and when his touch didn’t kill her, he fell in love with her. From then on, he mostly spent his time in Arkham with this mannequin, happily in love.

By making Nora no longer Freeze’s real wife but just an object that he’s glommed onto, I don’t really see how he’s any different. It seems an odd change when just using that old Clayface character would have told a similar story. Similar, but it wouldn’t have had the twist moment that fans got out of reading this book, which it feels like everyone at DC was going for.

Freeze used to stand apart in that he could be thought of as a humanitarian with a really awful follow-through. Now he’s just Clayface III, a villain that nobody remembers.

As I’m sure you came at it with less baggage, I’m curious to know what you thought, Paul.

-Jazzy Jeff

 


 

From Batman Annual #1

From: Paul Montgomery
To: Jeff Reid
Re: Mr. Freeze in Batman Annual

I see where you’re coming from. I wasn’t familiar with the Clayface III concept prior to this, but there’s still something about this newly revealed fly in Victor Fries’ ointment (cold cream?) that left me disappointed, at least initially. Victor’s core tragedy–the passionate crusade to cure his wife even if it meant breaking every law in the book–was the kind of romantic nuance that elevated the character above so many other rogues. It’s no less valiant to want to help a stranger, but the choice to make Nora an object of deluded obsession robs Fries of the dignity that made him that few percentage points more relatable and complex.

We should stress though that Fries remains far more competent than Preston Payne and his window display fantasy. Fries hasn’t latched onto a mannequin. It’s not truly his wife, but she’s at least a (goose-pimpled) flesh-and-blood person. Freeze is still a tragic figure, but he’s not so far removed from the likes of the Joker and the Riddler given this addendum to his motivations. I liked that he was, at least for a time, a kind of weaponized Jean Valjean, stealing bread to feed a loved one. A few homicides beyond all that, obviously, but not quite the psychotic our heroes typically have to contend with.

But you raise another really important point. Freeze’s altered origin might make a difference to us, but it doesn’t necessarily mean anything changes for him. He still believes he’s on a righteous crusade to save his bride. I don’t think Batman’s speech is a cure-all catharsis for Fries and what ails him. The next time we see him, his devotion to Nora could remain. As we saw, this isn’t just about Nora though. Victor wouldn’t even have latched on to that woman’s case if it hadn’t been for the accident that befell his mother. And obviously that suggests there’s something Oedipal wound up in this whole thing. Anyways. Motivations: Pretty much the same. Audience perception and empathy? Altered. But this is just the first story. There’s room for Victor to make a lot of choices. What he does next is what’s really important.

–Paul

 


 

From: Conor Kilpatrick
To: Paul Montgomery, Jeff Reid
Re: Mr. Freeze in Batman Annual

Jumping in. The danger with Mr. Freeze has always been making him too sympathetic to the point where you don’t want Batman to stop him; you want Bats to help him save Nora. This change remedies that problem, for us the audience if not for the character. As you’ve said, Mr. Freeze still believes he’s trying to save the love of his life, so the tragedy is still mostly there. It’s just fully understood now that this is a deluded and dangerous (and homicidal) person.

From Scott Snyder’s statements I can understand why they made this change. Name the iconic Mr. Freeze comic book story…

….

You can’t. There isn’t one. The iconic Mr. Freeze story was in Batman: The Animated Series. So they’ve taken a bit of the tragedy from “Heart of Ice” and combined that with the crazy “freeze the world” version of the character and here we are.

–Conor

 


 

Batman: The Animated Series

 

From: Paul Montgomery
To: Conor Kilpatrick
Re: Mr. Freeze in Batman Annual

(Jeff, I probably should’ve mentioned that I blind CC’d Conor. He told me a few weeks ago that he’s my lawyer, which is why he needed my checking account information that one night. I’m supposed to CC him on everything.)

–Paul

 


 

From Batman Annual #1

From: Jeff Reid
To: Paul Montgomery, Conor Kilpatrick
Re: Mr. Freeze in Batman Annual

Conor,

Coming from a guy who wrote a brief history of Mr. Freeze, let me agree that there is no iconic Mr. Freeze comic book story. I certainly understand Scott Snyder’s desire for a change so that something different can be tried with the character.

However, I never found Freeze to be sympathetic. Traditionally, his obsession with the restoration of his wife above all else caused him to do horrible things to innocent people. Other people’s lives meant nothing to him in the pursuit of his goal. Everyday morality meant even less. It would take a callous reader to be able to overlook Victor’s indiscretions against his fellow man just because it would be nice for Nora to be brought back to life. Freeze was always deluded and homicidal. Making Nora no longer his wife doesn’t change that. It just removes the tiny spark of empathy that the reader could somehow have for Victor, which makes him an even less interesting character.

–Jumpin’ Jeff Flash

 


 

From: Paul Montgomery
To: Jeff Reid, Conor Kilpatrick
Re: Mr. Freeze in Batman Annual

Yeah, I don’t know that sympathy for Victor would ever outweigh contempt for his actions. The real drama was always in the question: “What would Nora say about all this?” What if Victor actually managed to wake her up and she saw all the things he’d done? The animated movie Batman & Mr. Freeze: SubZero resolved that story in a pretty satisfying way, actually taking Nora’s awakening and cure out of Freeze’s hands. It ends on a really compelling note, with Nora in good health and happiness and Victor unable to share in that joy. It’s truly one of the most satisfying and sophisticated arcs for a super villain in any medium. You can’t really emulate it. So yeah, something different is probably best. That’s just such a massive shadow to escape.

Grant Morrison did a throwaway reference to Freeze a while back that struck me as an interesting direction. It’s just a panel in a larger Batman adventure where a prostitute complains Freeze had made her recline in a tub of ice to lower her body temperature. For, ya know, reasons. Imagine the character sinking so low that he’s now looking for love in all the wrong places. It’s base and it’s ugly, but it’s another way to approach his obsession and psychosis.

On the other hand. One thing I really liked about his portrayal in the Annual: His self awareness when talking to the Penguin. “The public enjoys its little narratives…They will readily accept it as an extension of my perceived fetishization of ice.” He’s not talking about Morrison’s chilled out prostitute idea, but the camp that other rogues enjoy. Certainly the Penguin and his “Put a bird on it!” philosophy. This Freeze means business, and he’s not out there for celebrity or to toy with primal fears. He’s cool and calculated, but he’d never phrase it that way. Simply put, he’s as far removed from Arnold as a Freeze can get.

I think it’s going to take a while to absorb this alternative to the animated continuity. But I get the need for a new avenue. I think I just want to see what’s next for the guy.

So that’s one fraction of the rebooted Mr. Freeze. There’s also the design. Even though the look debuted in Red Hood & the Outlaws and not this Annual, what did you think of the new look? Does the sleeveless look jibe with the science behind his origin? Cold cream?

–Paul

 


 

From Batman Annual #1

From: Jeff Reid
To: Paul Montgomery, Conor Kilpatrick
Re: Mr. Freeze in Batman Annual

The lack of armor in Freeze’s new suit took a little getting used to. Going by the logic of the pre-New 52, Victor’s newly bare arms should be affected by the heat of whatever normal room he’s in. The fact that it’s not even brought up means that we’re allowed to invent whatever we like to explain why his arms aren’t constantly blistering as he walks around. Perhaps his skin is now super-insulated against heat.

In any case, his new costume does allow him to use a power he’s never had before. Victor can now spread his cold by his bare skin. I don’t mind that new skill if he’s directly touching someone. It reinforces why he doesn’t need to cover his arms anymore and is a neat little addition to his arsenal. When Victor touched the ground and caused ice to spring up around Nightwing, I was a bit more dubious. That was a bit too “Iceman” for me. It should be pointed out that Freeze’s new ice touch makes him even more similar to Clayface III because it makes him unable to have any sort of physical contact with others.

I rather enjoyed Jason Fabok’s art here. He’s got a Jim Lee style of hyper detail, which I’m not necessarily drawn to but I can certainly appreciate it. His storytelling has improved since I first saw him over in the pages of Superman/Batman a few years ago. The real star of this book was Peter Steigerwald, who did the colors. Freeze’s helmet, made up of tiny hexagons, beautifully reflected the lights shining on it. If nothing else, here’s hoping that visual trick is kept for the foreseeable future. Steigerwald’s blue-toned flashback sequences also worked well.

The only problem I had with the art came in the final page of the story. Did Victor’s mother gouge two apple sized chunks of skin from her hands? Did she do that recently or is this an old wound reopened? Are the red spots supposed to remind us of Victor’s goggles? It’s a little unclear.

Were you as enamored of Victor’s helmet as I was?

–Jeffy-Pop

 


 

From: Paul Montgomery
To: Jeff Reid, Conor Kilpatrick
Re: Mr. Freeze in Batman Annual

Yeah, that was cool. The helmet, I mean. I tend to agree about the ice constructs though. But that goes for the new Captain Cold too. I think less is more and would prefer their ice powers came from guns. It’s a minor quibble.

I think Victor’s mother and those vibrant red cuts just represent human warmth and kindness. Creating those cuts, an illusion of their former happiness. Just like Victor’s attempts to reclaim Nora’s vigor through acts of violence. And shoving the poor lady back into the cold? Maybe the abandonment of nostalgia. Victor quitting the human race.

–Monty

 


From: Scott Snyder (yes, really)
To: Jeff Reid, Conor Kilpatrick, Paul Montgomery
Re: Mr. Freeze in Batman Annual

 

Just want you to know, it was a labor of love. I adore Freeze and was simply trying to bring the two versions of him together in one. My feeling was – there are these two ways he’s portrayed. 1 – he’s trying to save/heal/thaw Nora. This is the version in Heart of Ice and Sub Zero – my fav Freeze stories. But then there’s this 2nd version that I love that gets used alot – the Freeze who wants to freeze the world. So my idea – was to try to combine them into one version that had the best of both. For me, it doesn’t make him less sympathetic to love someone he never knew – I find that so sad and strangely haunting, just personally. And the obsession with the unattainable makes him closer to batman. But i totally understand if it didn’t do it for you – thx for reading.

–Scott Snyder

Comments

  1. Interesting discussion here guys. You certainly delved into this much deeper than I ever did, and you all bring up great points. With the new 52, I’m just sort of rolling with the punches and not thinking too hard about the changes. I like the changes to Mr. Freeze, and I really felt the impact of the end of the issue. I especially agree with Snyder’s assessment of the changes as well since that was certainly how I felt when I finished the issue.

  2. I really like this format! It’s kind of like reading a Fuzzy Typewriter discussion.

    Do you guys have email exchanges like this often?

    • Paul Montgomery Paul Montgomery (@fuzzytypewriter) says:

      Well. Never so formally, but sometimes. Typically we save our thoughts on story points for reviews and the comments section, or of course the podcast.

    • I too was on the fence with this issue. However, like it or not, the fact that Nora ended up not being French Fries wife matches the origin bits with his mother. Ergo, what woman would be so blind as to marry the kind of person that had detached from his own humanity enough to kill his own mother? Those are skeletons you just can’t cover up with a mask (or a cool helmet). The cracks in the ice would show on the first date.

  3. Interesting discussion – even more so with Snyder adding his thoughts on things.

    I have to admit, I was a little taken aback by the issue at first. It seemed strange to have Freeze no longer married but instead obsessed with this unknown woman.

    But the more I thought about it, the more I found myself liking it.

    I think I came to the realization that I had simply accepted Freeze being married and saving Nora as his motivation for his actions so any change would have seemed strange. But more importantly (to me anyway), the new change served to line him up with the Batman’s rogues in a different way. He’s always been off, but now we see he really DOES belong in Arkham. Because this isn’t a man trying to save his wife anymore. This is an obsessed fan with deeper issues. In my mind, it doesn’t make his feelings any less real to him. But what’s disturbing is that they are based in something solely in his own mind.

    Others will disagree, I’m sure. But I feel like this adds a different dimension to Freeze. And I don’t mind it.

  4. Batman Beyond the “Meltdown” episode featured a restored Nora and a Freeze who could not connect with her, even after he too was given a new lease on lifw

    • Paul Montgomery Paul Montgomery (@fuzzytypewriter) says:

      They did some really smart examinations in Batman Beyond. That one was a really thoughtful capitalization on the time gap. So good.

  5. The lesson here is that Scott Snyder is always monitoring your emails. I’m surprised you guys didn’t discuss that he pushed his mother into the ice at the end. I find that to be the biggest change to the character, even it’s something that could have easily been part of his back story before. He killed his mom before he was ever in love with Nora, so is that moment his “origin” as a rogue? Also, the whole tie to his mother, brings him closer to Bruce as well. I liked it.

    • Paul Montgomery Paul Montgomery (@fuzzytypewriter) says:

      We talk about that in the end there. But you make a good point that his first murder predates his association with Nora. I really liked that that reveal offered in the end, to coincide with present day events. That’s really good storytelling.

    • Yeah, I should have said “more” that you didn’t it discuss it more. And yes, it’s great storytelling, as usual from Snyder.

  6. Love this, especially the fact that you were all being very constructive, as apposed to just shitting on it. As we Fanboys are wont to do.

    I’ve always been a Freeze fan, but I agree, of recent years he’s become surplus to requirements. The character needed a shakeup that this Annual provided. I always found myself considering Victor as TOO relatable, to the point where he was almost a tragic victim to the machinations of the Bat family. This plants him firmly in the Villain zone, and also, along with that last scene with his mother, also gives him the… Mentally Unbalanced title, that he really needs to plant him in Arkham.

    All in all, fantastic stuff. And I like the new look, especially the helmet.

    Just as an F.Y.I., I see Fabok as something of a Finch, but with a cleaner line, and better facial expressions.

    Keep it up Scott and James 🙂

  7. heh that was a fun convo. Now we see what you guys call each other behind the scenes. Now we see that Scott Snyder looms….always. =)

  8. Can we just acknowledge that Paul signed off on his first e-mail as “P-Money” for a minute. As if I need further proof that Paul is awesome.

  9. I’m with Jeff and Paul on this, I preferred the older Fries. One of my favorite Batman stories is Batman: Snow by JH Williams & Seth Green.

    But I respect what Scott is doing. The idea is to introduce new ideas into NEW 52. If I wanted the old freeze, I would read the old books. I like the tie-in with Court of Owls.

  10. I am an avid Mr. Freeze fan & was initially troubled by this “retconning” of his origins. Yet as I thought about it more so, he just has been given a much more tragic background & is now even closer to Batman/Bruce Wayne’s character than ever before. Apart from the obvious connection it is Mr. Freeze’s obsession with restoring the past that has him very akin to Batman’s motivations. Yet here is the difference now with this Batman Annual that Snyder has created, Freeze is too blind to see his own fantasy & is too far deep into the dream to realize its fictional. Now before this annual I have always had a problem with Freeze just killing off people because of him becoming infected with cold powers, that sort of motivation was too close to a Spider-Man villain for a Batman rogue. I mean if he was truly this sympathetic villain with a heart, he would not just go willy nilly murder spree fanatic like in Gotham Central. Clearly this was a focused man who was driven by his heart more often than his head. With this retcon now we can see that Freeze can not achieve his dream girl not just because of technology or Batman/Bruce Wayne intruding, but also that Freeze can’t ultimately gain the same mutual love from Nora, because she never knew him. Its like Sleeping Beauty, but logical.

    • New DC 52 remember? So technically now nothing is considered a “retcon” since everything is up for grabs currently.

  11. This article was very fun to read. Snyder’s description of “strangely haunting” captures exactly how I felt. I for one love the new direction and I’m in favor of a darker and more horrifying Gotham by the pen of Scott Snyder. Great time to be a Batman fan.

  12. I have no qualms whatsoever with this new Freeze. In fact, I rather like him. My favorite part was the framing sequence of the young Freeze and his mother. Creepy. I too am a bit confused as to what happened at the end there with her hands.

  13. Great idea for a feature. Very interesting and some good questions raised.

    Also Snyder continues to be a great spokesmen for DC, I’ve seen other writers resort to name calling and foot stomping whenever their works are questioned. Snyder – ‘never change…unless you want to I’m not your boss’

  14. I enjoyed reading the book, I love Scott Snyder, I’m not really a fan in the change to Freeze’s storyline. It seemed to make Bruce out to be more of a prick than he needed to be. Oh well, maybe it will grow on me.

    • I was wondering about that too. Why is Bruce such a prick in this issue? Plus a little nitpick: When Victor Fries throws the chair into the steel drum of chemicals it just bursts easily. Why?!

    • 1) It could have easily been a pressurized drum. Also you can end up with imperfections in metal (air pockets/particulates) that make them susceptible to fractures from any kind of force, especially if they are in relatively extreme temperatures.

  15. I really enjoyed reading this. Thank you for sharing it.

  16. A great discussion, gentlemen, I really enjoyed reading your respective thoughts on the retcon as well as a response from Scott Snyder, himself so thanks for sharing.

    I was fairly critical of the Freeze/Nora retcon myself, having recently played Arkham City where Paul Dini has fleshed out his take on their original history a bit more: lonely boy meets girl who genuinely cares about him, they get married, girl gets sick, boy will do anything to bring her back. Jeff’s comparison of new-Freeze to Clayface III (I’d totally forgotten about that Alan Moore-penned mannequin story) is far more appropriate than my own comparison of him to Mad Hatter, but the point stands that the tragedy of Freeze’s motivations and the reader’s sympathy for him (albeit limited, he is a murderer, after all) have been diminished because now he’s not a husband wiling to kill anyone who stands between him and bringing his love back; he’s an unstable stalker.

    That being said, Snyder and the rest of the Batman staff have earned enough goodwill and trust that I’m keen to see what they do next with the character.

    I also really liked the snow-globe-y effect of Freeze’s helmet.

  17. Bought this, haven’t read it yet, can’t wait to, won’t render an opinion until I do.

    But let me state a fact – Scott Snyder is a class act, in case you hadn’t realized it yet.

  18. YOu know, sometimes when I try to think up stories I would tell if I were a writer, I try to come up with ways to do a new spin old villains(seriously, I feel Two-Face has the greatest potential to be the greatest villain ever and NO ONE is tapping into that!) but whenever I thought about Mr Freeze I always came back to thinking that really, Heart of Ice and Sub-zero really wrapped everything up well. After Sub-zero, there really shouldn’t be any more Mr Freeze, he’s done, that should be the end of it, so where do you take the character from there? I can’t say I’m a big fan of this new version, and I totaly agree on the comparison with Captain Cold(dont even get me started on how I dont like what Manapul is doing with the Rogues) but I do admire someone trying something new with the character.

  19. I’m pretty sure I’m one of the few people who totally remembers and loves Clayface III. Such a creepy design!

  20. Yeah, I don’t know why this had to be “a labor of love” for Snyder. I mean… this is all a bit much.

    I’m pretty sure it wasn’t “a labor of love” when Alan Moore revamped Swamp Thing or Marvel Man.

    I really just care about the actual comics on the page. Whether a creator (or a readership) is nostalgically over-precious about them doesn’t really matter. Correction: shouldn’t really matter, to anyone with a semi-rational sense of priorities in life.

    I liked the Batman Annual. I thought it was fine. 3.5 stars. Worth $5. Cool. But then I go online and there’s all this obsession with the character of Mr. Freeze and how he is or isn’t being reinterpreted… and how this is or isn’t “okay”. I know comic fans (and creators) are obsessive, but when did interpretations of Mr. Freeze become as dire as interpretations of the Constitution?

    As if, five years from now, the character just isn’t going to be slightly reinterpreted again anyway?

    It would be a better world if things like this weren’t even “a thing”. Acres of emails and commentary on this? LOTS of soul-searching and head-banging? It’s Mr. Freeze for —-‘s sake. When was the last time he even showed up? Those Dini-penned episodes of B:TAS were classic. But who the hell would expect or even want the New 52 version to be bound by that cartoon version?

  21. I definitely fall into the “I didn’t like this” category. Here’s a copy of the review I posted on the site.

    “Reading Batman Annual #1 I couldn’t figure out why Batman would be keeping Freeze from his wife. Then we had the reveal that in this new continuity Nora isn’t the wife of Freeze but rather just a woman in cryo that he’s become obsessed with.

    It’s certainly a twist on what pre-reboot readers know about the character so some I’ll award some points there for foiling expectations but I can’t help but feel this new Freeze is a misstep. Pre-reboot Victor was a tremendously complex and sympathetic villain with a unique motivation. Now he’s just another crazy bad guy.”

  22. I didn’t even think about that flaw in the new costume design till now. His arms and hands are completely exposed to regular temperatures….He should be dying considering he needs to be in below temperature to live.

    This annual in itself bored me but just on the overall story itself and not so much the drastic changes in Freeze’s origins. The childhood flashbacks were disturbing (pure Snyder) and I’m quite alright with him having cold powers (sans gun). The Nora twist….well not sure about that. I don’t hate it but yet I fail to see why he needs her considering he killed his own Mother. So women, in his version anyways, doesn’t mean squat to Victor so why should I care?

  23. “The danger with Mr. Freeze has always been making him too sympathetic to the point where you don’t want Batman to stop him; you want Bats to help him save Nora. This change remedies that problem, for us the audience if not for the character.”

    I really have to disagree with you there Conor. That aspect of Mr. Freeze was always what set him apart from the other villains. Since when has making things easier for the audience make something a better story? Taking that sympathetic aspect of the character away makes him just another crazy guy no different than any other Batman villain. It might be okay with just the loving a woman he doesn’t know thing, but killing his mother just pushes it over the edge. He’s a less interesting character now because he’s lost his uniqueness. I always found it interesting that he more or less had a finite goal to his villainy. We always want to see him finally succeed, but get frustrated in his measures and villainous tactics in trying to save his wife. We wanted him to win yet also to be stopped because he kept going about it the wrong way. I think this change really hurts the character.

    • I’ll have to reread it to make sure, but I got the sense that Fries killed his mother more out of pity than malice. She just didn’t seem to be the same person any more, and her son more or less euthanized her. Not saying that’s a rational thing to do in that particular scenario, but neither was it the act of a lunatic psychopath.

    • I’m pretty sure that plain psychotic murder of his mother wasn’t the motivation there but pity.

  24. First off, I loved the discussion. Seems like all bases were covered re: the topic. Second, I really loved this new take on Mr. Freeze and hopefully it will open up a new perspective/possibilities/stories for the character. I hope it’s not all about Norah cause it has been like most of the time. Best part of the Annual in my opinion is the young Victor Fries backstory. After reading the last page I just froze like for five minutes. Pun intended.

  25. I enjoyed the issue and im pleased with the change. I mean people who say im not happy they changed his story well IT IS THE NEW 52 so technically heroes or villains can have their history changed. Wasn’t that the point of the new 52 out with most of the old?

    Snyder hasn’t disappointed yet.

  26. This Freeze is tweaked a little differently….I was like why is Batman being such a DICK!? just help Fries… Then when I found out that it wasn’t his wife I was really into it! ( I was on the fence at this point). Then the icing on the cake for me is when he pushed his mother in. WE DON’T WANT TO SEE THE SAME THINGS WE HAVE SEEN FOR DECADES!!! Great Job Snyder!

  27. This issue did leave a bit… (no, I won’t say cold) at first, but after going back and looking at some Mr. Freeze stories, I do think that this really might be an improvement. While the pathos was always there with the old origin, it didn’t allow a great variety of stories for the character, which is necessary in an ongoing serialized format of storytelling. Part of the reason Joker and Lex Luthor have lasted so long is because they are constantly being reinvented. Freeze was a great character, but he was a one shot deal, as just about every single Freeze story operates on the same pattern of emotional beats (Freeze is lonely because of Nora, he gets close to finding a cure, makes a deal with someone, it doesn’t work and he gets mad, let freezing commence). While it’s way too early to call, new 52 Mr. Freeze might be more interesting later down the line. He always stood out as the tragic villain in Batman’s Rogues Gallery, and, I gotta say, I actually find this version to be even more tragic.

  28. I see some future problems for freeze based on this updated origin. 1. What freeze is going through with Nora is dangerously similar to his mother’s situation. If Freeze does find a way to help Nora who is to say he doesn’t then just kill her right after? In the mother part of the story, the mom lives Freeze helps her (conveyed by pushing her around in a wheele chair), but then just kills her. This story is making me hope Freeze is never able to truly help Nora.

    2. Seeing the Penguin made me think of his recent mini series which explored his relationship with his mother. Pens and Freeze are at…polar…opposite ends of the mother spectrum that I wonder if Penguin doesn’t eventually go after Freeze on principles alone.

    Oh, and I think it’s a sign of the times that we are seeing more characters with mommy issues. Daddy issues are so pre the new 52…

    • #1’s completely null & void. The editors would never allow Freeze to unfreeze Nora after the Lazara incident.

  29. Comic fan: “nothings really changed, new 52 is stupid!” Comic fan spins around, facing a different camera “STOP! Stop changing things I want them to be the same!”

  30. Dudes: This is one of the best Ifanboy articles ever.