Special Edition Podcast

Special Edition – X-Men Origins: Wolverine

Show Notes

Coming off the heels of the movie we’d like to forget, X3, we get X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Hugh Jackman is back along with a bunch of other mutants to show how just how he became the best there is at what he does… and introduces us to Wolverine’s jacket.

Running Time: 0:31:39

“Wolverine Blues”

You know, it’s about time that the little-known character of Wolverine finally got his day in the sun.

When I first saw X-Men way back in 2000 I thought to myself, this Canadian mutant fellow is great? Why isn’t he used more? He should really be in 12 books a month and be a member of every team, even The Fantastic Four!

Well, now he’s got his own movie! Although, judging by the poster to the left, we might amend that to: now he’s (sorta) got his own movie!

You better believe that this movie has been in some sort of development since that first X-Men film, and now it’s finally come to pass.

Are you going to see it?  Of course you are!  So let’s talk about it!

And when you do go to see it, and you feel like being a completest, stay through the entire credits. There is one scene in the middle of the credits and one post-credits.

If you haven’t seen the movie yet be forewarned — there be SPOILERS ahoy! So don’t scroll down any further if you are sensitive to that kind of thing.


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  1. Probably going to see it this weekend or sometime next week….But listening to the special edition podcast isnt gonna spoil anything that hasnt been spoiled already from the leak.

    As long as Deadpool is done right: A+ for me!…..Okay maybe not.

    I wont repost the link but Roger Ebert gave a very negative review of the film. Making fun of the concept of Wolverine and making fun of the X-Men fanbase. Ron Richards vs Roger Ebert?

  2. It’s Wolverine and the X-Men all over again.

    I read the Ebert interview that TNC is talking about. It is venomous.

    I’m gonna see Wolverine tomorrow night and, having seen the huge roster of characters i’m really worried that this is gonna be X3 all over again. Tons of "nods and winks" to the fans but very little to actually enjoy.

  3. I’ve seen the workprint and didn’t enjoy it at all, so I’ll probably wait until it hits ye olde Netflix.

    Are the rumors of multiple endings true?

  4. It’s multiple bonus post-credit endings. Like with Sam Jackson at the end of Iron Man. The movie is only gonna have one proper ending.

  5. I’ll be waiting for the director’s cut.

  6. @conor Yes after the first X-Men movie I thought the same thing. Why hasn’t he shown up in anything yet. I know he’s on the new team of X-Men but he hasn’t done much. One day someone will write this character right and I’m guessing it’s this Claremount guy.


    Don’t under any circumstances watch this movie. You might think it has Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool, that dude is perfect. He has a 30 second speaking role that’s it. 

    Then the people involve with the film continue on to ass rape him.

    If you’re watching this for Deadpool, don’t. Just don’t do it. You’ll thank me after the interwebs explode.

  8. While I agree that Deadpool fans shouldnt see the movie JUST for him, what they did with Wade in the movie works. At the end, huge conscessions were made, but he still kicks ass, and hopefully according to the producer, this isn’t the last we’ll see of him.

    I just wanted to say that before this article comment section becomes an anti-Deadpool breeding ground. Stop being so snobby!

  9. PymSlap (@alaska_nebraska) says:

    I didn’t see Stan Lee in this, even still, I think it will make a fortune in ticket sales. But it sorta-sucks. I lost my enthusiasm for it during the scene where Logan was boxing The Blob. It felt contrived.

  10. Deadpool: Origins?

  11. I’m really disappointed, I went to an advance screening at the start of the week with a lot of excitement. I don’t know why because in the back of my mind I knew I was going to be disappointed. The story was poor and no way near to being a true retelling of wolverine’s origin. The characters were terrible!!!! I was looking forward to Gambit and Deadpool. Deadpool had a blink and you’ll miss it appearance and the character of Gambit was so weak I would rather him not be in it. Where was kid storm, I think she would have been better than the need to put Scott Summers in the film. Why does he need to be in this? I thought they could have really developed the other mutant characters or should have not had them in at all. It was cool to see Emma Frost but I wish she had maybe been gambits age and helped them rather than nursing Scott around for 2 or 3 minutes. I stayed for one ending which was the Stryker thing, which in my opinion was a rubbish ending and didn’t advance the story or make me excited in anyway. Mutant 11 was terrible, the cast were ok, the story was poor and the need for secret endings to cause hype just ridiculous. There was so much potential and it was wasted. When last year brought us so many gems I’m disappointed that Marvel don’t have the rights to the x-men property as they would do a much better job than fox studios. Apologies for the rant guys.

  12. It sucked… saw it last night and holy crap was it pretty bad.  The FX in it were just ugly and they wasted a lot of good characters.  This could have been sweet but they really didn’t do a good job on this flick.  The story itself wasn’t all that bad but they tried to do things way over the top without the budget.  Shots that should have been ‘wow’ moments ended up just looking silly.  Blah. 

  13. I’m in no rush to see this.  Way too many other movies in May I want to see, Star Trek, Up, Drag Me To Hell, Lymelife, Angels & Demons, Terminator Salvation, then if I have time…Wolverine.

  14. Paul Montgomery (@fuzzytypewriter) says:

    Waiting for the blu ray. From Netflix. 

  15. It’s X-Men: The Last Stand all over again. Hopefully this will put the franchise to bed before they embarass themselves again.

    Did anyone else laugh at Silver Fox’s "I’m cold" line? Acting like that actually makes me miss Halle Berry.

  16. I’m really not fussed about seeing this in theatres. I’ve avoided most reviews, and the leaked version.  The trailer just didn’t do much for me. I’ll see it on DVD when it’s out. More excited about Star Trek.

  17. Too bad for X-Men Origins: Magneto.

  18. I don’t like to hate on superhero movies, but I have to say this was as bad as Fantastic Four and X3.  At least there’s Star Trek in a few days.

  19. @PymSlap-You didn’t miss Stan; he didn’t have a cameo in this movie.  Don’t know why not.

    @chlop- If the film builds off of that opening scene from X-Men and explores his past like the comics have, I wouldn’t be worried.  Let’s be honest, many comics fans haven’t liked the exploration of Wolverine’s past in the original medium beyond the "Weapon X" stories by Windsor-Smith.  

    Also, as I told my wife today, it’s a Wolverine story- I don’t want to see introspection or deep themes, just hack/slash fun.  If the movie delivers that, great.  I’ll get me "good cinema" from Star Trek and other films. 

  20. I saw the midnight show last night.  The movie is ok.  There was more desired of the plot, but I wasn’t really dissappointed.  I knew going in that they were going to take a departure from the books so I expected that.  I agree, the Deadpool thing at the end should have been something else besides making it Deadpool.  He can fight some other bad guy.  I feel that the supporting mutants (Gambit, Cyclops, and Emma namely) had good characterization for when we saw them, but were underused; they could have really been anybody.  Hugh and Liev were good as Logan and Victor; good story between them.  The scenes at the end didn’t make sense to me why they were in there.  ***Spoilers***  The ending with the army finding Stryker had no point since we know we will see him in X2, and the scene with Logan drinking in Japan had no point.  He was there, but no real teaser for anything else.  

    Did anyone else see different endings than what I saw?

  21. Stan’s cameo will be in the DVD – he bumps into Wolverine and angrily tells him "Watch it, bub!".

  22. Yes there are multiple endings, though it is not like Iron Man. There are endings A, B, C and D depending on what copy of the film your theater got and no there is no way to tell which one you get before seeign the movie unless someone in the know at the theater feels like telling you.

    This refers to the post credit endings. The one we got was him in Japan drinking shots to remember instead of forget. Lame.

  23. Jeff Reid (@JeffRReid) says:

    Eh.  After reading reviews from magazines and seeing your guys’ comments, I don’t mind skipping this one.  I’ll see it on DVD, of course, but that’s it.  Like others said, I’ll just save my money for Star Trek.

  24. meh as much as i love hugh jackman…i think i might skip or wait for a while.

  25. I’m waiting for the DVD on this one.  Judging by the reviews I’ve seen, it should be out in about a month.

  26. Can’t wait for Star Trek! Oh, wait…this isn’t what we’re talking about , is it? 

  27. So, will the SEP replace the POW podcast.

  28. @Gabe: No.

  29. seeing the movie tomorrow. Kind of looking forward to it. have to say that after reading Ebert’s review I may officially never read another review by him. It was just insulting to comic readers in general.

  30. @D: I’ve seen more insulting by a critic then what Ebert dished out. Although again, a Ron Richards vs Roger Ebert fight would be epic.

    So far on rottentomatoes it has a 36% rating….so the critics obviously dont like this film…

  31. I don’t think it was insulting to comic readers. He said he liked Batman, Spider-Man, Iron-Man, etc.  But he said he didn’t like this one. When he says "Wolverine" fans, I think he’s talking about the movie.

  32. It is by no means a bad movie. However, they could take some special effects hints from Doctor Who. Apparently this was somebody’s first time to ever work with a green screen.

    Still though, not bad at all. Then again I got to see it for free, if I had paid I may have had a different view.

  33. @josh: well he mentions in his review that ‘Am I being disrespectful to the material? you bet!’; he also says Wolverine in general is the no.1 character cause of a ‘stuffed ballot box’….so he is kinda disrespecting the creators of Wolverine and his popularity.

    Also, on rottentomatoes that rating I gave was overall critics. If you click on Top Critics (like Ebert, or publications of TIME and LA Times) the rating is 19%! But hey…..who reads newspapers anymore? Am I right?

  34. I thought that Ebert review was hilarious. He goes out of his way to list all the superhero movies he has admired over the years. And he’s precisely right about Wolverine: he has no apparent vulnerability, so he’s hard to emotionally invest in.

  35. So I saw it… I’m kinda at a lose for words.  Something that could have truly been phenomenal just turned out Mediocre at best. (WARNING..SPOILERS AHEAD) I liked the begining stuff, i think they should have explored that Weapon X team dynamic in search for the adamantium.  maybe head him get the claws at the very end. I think the biggest let down is that they grab alot of characters (like Gambit) but don’t use him well, just put him their for Crowd appeal. 

     I have to have my Rant about Deadpool. I really liked how they had him As Wade Wilson Pre-Deadpool.   Ryan captured Wade Wilson well. (I think a Wade Wilson Comic would be fun) But he’s only a few minutes of the movie.  (shoulda mentioned his cancer).  And the end "Deadpool" wow was this nessecary.. I can see the writers now."Lets give him claws" "Lasers" … Deadpool in the comics has stood up against Wolvie before on his own. Oh well.. I’d be curious if any comics ever bring up this Weapon XI/Deadpool.. work it into his origin lol   /rant.


  36. Ive seen the movie and it was ok. I absolute LOVED Taylor Kitch as Gambit.

  37. It was OK, and that’s OK.  Half of you decided you hated this movie long before you even saw it.  Leaked version or otherwise.  I knew it was going to be a bunch of mutants running around that it wouldn’t all make sense and I’m fine with that.  I though Silverfox, other than feeding into his rage/revenge, was pointless.  Dominic "Charlie" Monaghan is apparently likable in all his roles.  Didn’t know the character, (was he a movie creation?) but I liked him.  Blob was Blob.  And everyone hates him for it.  Have we learned nothing from the last several years of Comic Book Movies?? Not everyone translates onto the big screen.  Wade Wilson was underused, you’re all right about that.  Of course Deadpool was going to be different in the movie than in the comic.  Most of you Dead-heads (is that what you’re called?) had misplaced hopes.  And I don’t really like Gambit.  However, movie Gambit, despite my resistance I really, really liked.  And can I mention that Liev Schreiber has nearly ruined the original X-Men for me?  I really enjoyed his Victor, they never did refer to him as Sabertooth, but than he didn’t have much to live up too.

    It was OK, it had it’s issues, but it was fun, I enjoyed it!  They can’t all be Dark Knight.

    I see you all grabbing your pitchforks and lighting your torches and that’s fine. 

  38. This was the best super-hero movie I have ever seen. So many good things, Liev Schreiber was not wasted in the movie at all. The love story, geez, it was like seeing "Wolverine" jump off the pages and into my heart. What can I say, this movie leaves Batman: Begins, Dark Knight, Iron Man, and Spiderman I & II in the dust. Oscar nod for Will.I.AM.NOT.

    Just kidding. EFF this Effing movie. What a waste of Liev Schreiber’s talent. Gambit actually was pretty good. 

  39. DarkDuck, this is the internet. Internet people hate things. You don’t have to agree, or even acknowlege us.

  40. @Darthduck: Your right….am I monster….how can I live with myself?…..Eh it’ll pass

    Pitchforks! I got your pitchforks here! Plus torches! All for $5!!

  41. @Darthduck … yeah man … don’t hate on us haters. :p


  42. I know I’m not using the internet correctly by not hating things, and it was not my intention to come off in the way I apparently did.  I just wanted to shine a (torch) light on the other side of the movie.

    See you at the mob.

  43. @DarthDuck – You’ve got it slightly off.  The internet is like politics, there is only binary, yes or no, love or hate.  I can say I didn’t love a book, for example, and 2 months later, people say, "you hated that book."

    There is no place for nuance my friend.  None at all.  Take your "thoughtfulness" and go home.

  44. Paul Montgomery (@fuzzytypewriter) says:

    Just to dispel a myth, they actually can all be as good as The Dark Knight. Given thought and care and effort. 

  45. Dead on Paul.  Or they can be as good as Iron Man.  Different movies.

  46. @Josh: "Fat chance "Wolverine" fans will seek out those two". He was being a dick.

    @Jimski – that’s where his past comes in. That’s what is used to get people on his side, but I haven’t seen the movie so I don’t know if that worked. Also the fact that everyone around him dies before he does…

  47. Just got out of the theatre and I though it was alright.  I had the same reaction I did to X3, which was hey look there’s some cool actiony stuff going on but I don’t really care about the characters for the most part and nothing unexpected happened the whole film.  Although Liev Schreiber was great, and it would have been a much cooler movie if they just focused on Logan and Victor’s effed up realtionship to each other rather than being continuity obssessed with the previous X films and showing how Logan got to where he was in those films.  As for the ending at my theatre, we didn’t get Wolvie in Japan.  We got Deadpool’s arm reaching out of the rubble and grabbing his head, now with the lips cut open, and him saying ‘Shh..’

  48. Paul Montgomery (@fuzzytypewriter) says:

    I hope everyone declaring their resentment of Ebert’s remark has actually seen Tsotsi.  

  49. Spongebob Squarepants has artistic merits…

  50. He wasn’t talking about Wolverine comic fans, rather he was talking about fans of the movie, which has nothing in common with the director’s prior works.

    I know when to be offended by remarks against the comic book community. 

  51. This movie was terrible and made me feel sorry for Hugh Jackman, you can tell he loves this character. I was shocked at how bad this was. From set designs, to the writing, the score, the editing, directorial decisions, all bad. A real shame. That’s just me.

  52. Tsoti is such a very good film indeed, and didn’t require the budget of this thing. As far as Ebert goes, he is good movie reviewer, but I think he holds comptempt for other mediums and is blinded by the merrits of film. I think the Fake Wolverine Spoilers popping up on Twitter. is more fun than this movie.

  53. Yes, he was being a dick to a lot more people since seeing movies isn’t a niche. 🙂 I’m not offended, just baffled by the stupidity. How many people will now see Tsotsi after being treated like that? I’m listening to Hurt by Johnny Cash because it’s good, not because I’m trying to hold back tears.

  54. @psyguy411 – all the people that declare comics as the best medium and that other media can’t come close to it sort of balance each other. But that’s for another session.

  55. The real poison to the X-men franchise is Lauren Shuler Donner — you can tell that Bryan Singer had to fight hard to stick the landing on the first two X-flicks, and without him, the Poor Idea Express rolls on without interference. I’m sure Hood is a good director, just as I’m sure Benioff is a good screenwriter and Jackman can be a dazzling actor — when they are stitched together poorly by a misguided producer, it dissolves into goo.

    I’m sure this news is well spread already, but Lauren Shuler Donner made an end run around Hood and employed her husband, Richard Donner, to make some executive-level overhauls without Hood’s input. BAD IDEA.

  56. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the same people who are ripping up Ebert for hating comic book fans are the ones who were quoting his extremely positive review of ‘Watchmen’ as validation.  He’s just one guy with opinions, folks, he’s not oppressing you.

  57. Paul Montgomery (@fuzzytypewriter) says:

    Speaking of the writer, I picked up his novel City of Thieves without knowing the connection. I haven’t gotten in too deep yet, but as far as I can tell, the guy has chops. 

  58. Paul Montgomery (@fuzzytypewriter) says:

    @ohcaroline – Truth.  

  59. I’m not saying comics are better than other mediums, especially as a videographer/film designer, it would do a disservice to my first love of movies. Also, I respect and turn to Ebert’s reviews a lot. I was just making the observation that it wouldn’t surprise me that he picked on comic lovers, even though I couldn’t gather as much from the review, because he has already said video games and their fans are a joke. That does tend to make me question a few of his reviews, but overall his reccomendations and observations are pretty "in-line."

  60. I liked the movie a lot more than I expected. I thought they mishandled alot, but, hey, it’s fox, and it was still a good movie. The action was cool the dialog was entertaining and funny, there was an amazing cameo at the end, what more do you want? 8/10

  61. I want to see it, but because of the flu all movie theaters are close here in México.

    I have to wait till next week, but reading this comments, it doesn’t look good

  62. Paul Montgomery (@fuzzytypewriter) says:

    Sorry to hear that, MoniBolis. Hope everything goes back to normal soon.  

  63. so can there be a good X-men movie without Brian Singer?

  64. Paul Montgomery (@fuzzytypewriter) says:

    Yes. There are other good directors.  

  65. memory. erasing. adamantium. bullets.

    that is all. 

  66. It was about what I expected.  Fun action sequences and not a lot more.  I was very happy with the opening sequence and Sabretooth’s characterization.  I wanted more of him in the film.  I thought that they got the dynamic between him and Wolvie.  That being said, wow did that final villian suck.  They could have gone almost any other direction and I would have been more satisfied.  Still, better than X3.

  67. Pushing spoiler off the home page…

  68. Boy…

    …X-Men sure was good, wasn’t it?

    Pound for pound, this is the funniest movie of the year once you have all your hopes and dreams for it safely in the dustpan. When I had heard "you must have me confused with someone who cares" and "are we having fun yet?" within the span of five minutes, and Best Original Screenplay was off the table, I had to develop a coping mechanism and chose MST3K.

    Ohhh 6 foot swords inside 4 foot arms. Why not? Why the hell not? Your arms don’t have to bend.

    Count the number of people who jump into the scene from the sky despite the fact you saw them standing on the ground nearby a minute earlier. Gambit does it at least twice. It’s pretty outstanding.

    I envy you, people who found the opening sequence non-ridiculous and painless. You have happy lives.

  69. @mutantediez – I don’t think I can count that as a cameo at the end… he wasn’t real!!!  It looked like all CG and bad CG at that.

  70. I fucking loved it.  Maybe the best movie set in the Marvel universe so far.  I mean, it could be afterglow–I ought to watch Iron Man again before I commit to that statement totally–but it was just supercool. 

    Hated both tags in and after the credits though.  The ending was satisfying and should have remained the ending.  The tags were so pointless and anticlimactic.

  71. Crappy movie, worse then X3 which was horrific and the Fantastic Fours which were bad but entertaining. Ebert isn’t talking about the comic book fans but fans of the movie. For the most part I agree with him, the nuances of the comic book Wolverine have been stripped away.

     Deadpool was a brutally wasted character, they could have made a movie franchise around Reynolds and Deadpool instead they ruined him.

    My only question is when does the Rights to the X-Men get returned to Marvel? 

  72. Not good, really very not good at all.

  73. I didnt hate it. IT was good. I am not a huge wolverine fan. The only wolverine comic I have read was the Civil war tie-in’s so i cant complain how it didn’t stay true to the comic.

  74. @crucio – as long as fox keeps using the rights, i.e. making more movies, they will retain the rights.

    glad to see my side of the mob picking up steam….

  75. A mediocre movie by far, from a production side it was horrible a majority of the scenes look obviously green screen and some of the final scenes didn’t even fight to hide it. The misuse of many of the characters who weren’t Wolverine and Sabertooth is another problem. I understand transforming Maverick into the gun toting bulllet spewing Agent Zero, but they completely erased the pseudo conflicted honor i loved about the character making me the only person in the theater sad about his death only because i liked the character. It suffered from the same problems as X3 did in terms of characters though i enjoyed it far more….how did prof x know that they were there…that came out of left field

  76. I think they should have kept a tighter film, erase all the superfluous characters, focus it on Logan and Creed and make it a character driven action piece. They threw way to much at the screen, it was to convoluted, no time to get to know any characters and build any attatchment to them.

  77. I liked it.

  78. Every time I felt like I was intrigued by a character other than Wolvie or Victor, they were ripped off the screen.  The group at the beginning was awesome.  I would have loved a movie of just that.

    But then we meander for a bit, people die, then Summers shows up for no reason.  Then Gambit is awesome, and he’s off the screen again.  Then Emma starts be be a bit of a bad ass, then cut to Barraka, I mean Deadpool.  At this point, I just want to cry.

    At my theater, they showed Deadpool’s blade retract, his hand feel around and find his head, his mouth is back and he says, "shh."  Hopefully when the Deadpool movie comes out, the cancer will take away his stupid arm blades, the teleporting, and the laser eyes.  Hopefully he will be the Merc with the Mouth we all know and love.  Hopefully.

  79. I’m popping in X-Men to cleanse the pallate.

  80. Just saw this today with my wife.  We enjoyed it.  Granted, my first exposure to the X-Men and Wolverine was the first X-Men film and I explored the vast comics universe because I liked that film so much and was interested in Wolverine.  I know it could have been better, but I still hold this above the mess that X3 made of the X-Men series.  I loved the dynamic they gave Sabretooth and Wolverine, was okay with the extended cameos they gave Deadpool and Gambit.  I think Wolverine is a great character, but expecting a film the caliber of Dark Knight would have been a mistake.  Even if someone tried to take Wolverine to that level, it might have been received as badly as Ang Lee’s Hulk.  Not every comic is meant to be a masterpiece film.  Some of them are as much for fun as for their part in modern mythology, and this was a fun film.  I think they should have slowed down the beginning and trimmed out some supporting characters, let us enjoy the slow decay of James and Victor and their romp through violent history, but overall I didn’t hate this.  I wouldn’t show it to someone to convince them comics have substance, but I probably wouldn’t hand them an issue of Wolverine for that anyhow.

  81. Btw, I was not offended by Ebert’s comments nor expressing hatred for him. His review is probably spot on, once I go watch it tomorrow.

    I cant wait for this podcast….I can just tell Ron is going to laugh as much as he did for the crap ‘Wanted’ or ‘Ghost Rider’ provided

  82. Wow this sucked this was worse then X3.  I think Fox doesn’t care anymore they know we’ll go see whatever X-men movie now so just throw one out there.  If I had to say something positive its Hugh Jackman is always a good Wolverine.

  83. I think my favorite scene was the one where Wolverine and Sabretooth roared and then ran at each other down a long hallway. So, good news for me, because I got to see that about six times.

    Worse power than really strong fingernails? Anybody? "When my hair is in a French braid, it is indestructible"?


  84. The movie was actually enjoyable. I didnt feel screwed out of my $10 and it was fun. The im not a X-men fan at all so i thought it was cool even though i didnt know who most mutants were. Im more of a DC guy. I dont know why people are crucifying it. its not like its superman returns….

    overall i enjoyed it. not great but a fun time at the movies. 

  85. I think my favorite part was when Logan’s hyperkeen mutant senses were completely fooled by fake blood.  Who knew all it took to hoodwink Wolverine was some Karo syrup and red food coloring?

  86. I was enjoying it as a movie until they just completly raped Deadpool as a character.  And I’m just now getting into him in the comics so I don’t know everything bout him.  As soon as he shot the blasts out of his eyes, I was done.

  87. *Spoiler*

    I think my favorite part was when the terribly cgi Patrick Stewart came on screen and scared the crap outta everyone. Besides that it was nice to see Ma and Pa Kent and Wolverine kickin… no that was about all I enjoyed.

  88. @epog: Yes, those graphics were lifted from the SNES Next Generation game, weren’t they? If they were still around, Spectrum Holobyte would have sued.

  89. been waiting years for this movie.


    what a piece of shit disappointment.

  90. I freaking loved it, had a ton of fun watching it, and will probably go back and see it again. 

  91. ha ha i likee clintaa

  92. watched it in South Korea last night, thought it was fun and forgettable, ridiculous if taken seriously but fun all the same.  The audience loved it and there were more women in the crowd than men I noticed.  

  93. @Kimbo: Wow what dedication. You flew all the way to South Korea to watch it. God bless you.


  94. Just got back from it.

    Problems: Some of the effects were terrible. This movie needed at least a few more months of post to get some of the SFX right. 

    other then that I really enjoyed it. Yes the story structure of "Wolverine goes from place to place, meeting mutants along the way until the end of the film" was thin. But I didn’t mind it. All the major problems people seem to have with the film made me go "Huh, that happened…okay" And I’d move on. I dug the cameos from deadpool and gamit, and understand, they are in fact cameos and nothing more.

    I’d say it’s only right below X-men 1, but it was far better then X-men 3. If this were to come on TV, I wouldn’t change the channel like I do for X3. If this were the film to come out after X2, I think it’d be looked on much better. But that’s my opinion.

  95. My wife and I saw the movie yesterday.  It wasn’t horrible- it was not as campy as the FF movies.  I liked Ryan Reynolds and Taylor Kitsch more than I thought I would, so I give the movie that.  When I heard Gambit was going to be in the movie, all I could think of was the highly affected speech patterns from the comic and the animated version and imagined me cringing every time he came on screen.  Pleasantly surprised, and if you have not seen Kitsch in "Friday Night Lights" on NBC you have done yourself a disservice.  Likewise with Reynolds- he really got the "merc with the mouth" concept, better than I imagined, and I wouldn’t mind seeing either the beginning version or the "final" version again.  Also, Liev Schreiber, minus the "growling" looks, is a great Sabretooth.   

    Beyond that, though, it is certainly not the best Marvel movie, and will not be the best summer movie this year.  The CG/green screen was horribly obvious, the score was bland, and the acting was just "eh" beyond the actors mentioned (Jackman provided more of the same, but while I like him in the X-Men movies, I don’t know that his Wolverine could carry its own film).  This won’t be getting repeat views like Iron Man or the first two Spider-Man movies.  

  96. Went with my little brother to see it last night and was pleasantly surprised. From all the online hysteria I was expecting another Ghost Rider experience but thought it was an average movie overall.  It had some high points like the intro and the adamantium bonding scenes tempered by low like the final fight on the cooling tower or the chopping down of the fire escape in NOLA. I winced when Stryker brought out the silver adamantium bullets for the werewolf wolverine but actually thought it was not the worst idea for scrambling his memories. Not going to go to a repeat showing, especially with Trek, Terminator: Salvation and Angels and Demons all fighting for my $ but I will definitely check out the eventual ‘extended edition’ when it hits Blu-Ray.

  97. So I really liked this movie, but I did have some issues with it:

    1) The action wasn’t really spaced out all that well, lots at the beginning, lots at the end, and long stretches of boring talking in the middle

    2) Gambit had no Louisiana accent, which bugged me since that’s always been a big part of his character, I feel like

    3) Not enough talking Deadpool 

    Other than that, great movie 

  98.  Does anyone think it is possible to reboot the X movies and "Dark Knight" style?

  99. Saw it last night. Definitely an interesting experience. I wanted to go with my son, but he was sick. I can tell you right now, he will looooove this movie. Me, I made sure to read all the crappy reviews so that my expectations were sufficiently lowered, and… I didn’t hate it.

    It’s not a great movie by any means. And I agree with Paul’s sentiment that every movie CAN be a Dark Knight or Iron Man — but with the caveat that that should always be the aim of the creators. The audience is a different story. There’s nothing wrong with enjoying the bits that entertained or surprised you. And there were a few in this flick.

    What I liked about the film was that if you look past the execution, there was a somewhat interesting story there. If you were to strip out the powers and the shiny, flawed execution — it’s kind of a hard-boiled crime story, innit? Think about it: Logan’s trying to escape his dark past, but he’s betrayed by his brother, his former boss, the woman he thinks loves him. He’s played for a fool through the entire thing, and then when the woman screams, even though it was all a lie… he still goes back and does what he has to do… 

    Of course, I’m scraping off a lot of muck to see that. It takes a good deal of effort. The execution is horribly flawed. I’m not sure, but I think that by trying to cover so much of his origin, they fell too much into exposition. We’re told that Wolverine is at conflict, but we never feel it. Without that foundation, everything just falls apart.

    I agree with most people: some fun action amidst some cheesy S/FX. I liked Deadpool and MY theater’s ending had a Deadpool ending which set up the possibility for more fun Ryan Reynolds Deadpool, which I think could be fun. The various cameos were interesting and they deviated enough from what *I* know of Wolverine to make a few things surprising.

    Not a great film by any means, but I’m not sure it’s worth some of the vitriol.



  100. Paul Montgomery (@fuzzytypewriter) says:

    Glad you had some fun with it, Dave. Just wanted to say I totally agree with the caveat. Entertainment is entertainment. 

    I was at Borders this morning and there was a boy around 8 or 9 years old begging his dad to buy him Red Hulk. Not a book I particularly want to read myself, but I felt bad for the kid because he was really excited about the thing. Disliking something is fine and I think it’s okay to rib a little bit, but it’s hard to outright hate something when it brings somebody a lot of joy.  

    Hope the kid feels better soon and he enjoys the hell out of the movie.   

  101. ‘Wolverine’ has box-office bite with $35M debut

    LOS ANGELES – Going solo has paid off for Hugh Jackman and his "X-Men" spinoff.

    Jackman’s "X-Men Origins: Wolverine" kicked off the summer movie season with a howl by taking in $35 million on its opening day Friday.

    According to Hollywood.com box-office analyst Paul Dergarabedian, that puts "Wolverine" solidly in line with the three previous "X-Men" movies in which Jackman costarred.

    The final chapter of that trilogy, "X-Men: The Last Stand," was the most successful with $45.1 million on opening day.

    But "Wolverine" outdid the first two movies. "X-Men" had an opening day of $20.8 million, while "X2: X-Men United" did $31.2 million on its first day.

  102. I liked this movie.  Sure there were disappointments, but I always go into these movies with low expectations so that the redeeming qualities act as a pleasant surprise.   I mean, everyone loved the first movie, but I was upset it didn’t center on the original five.  I recognize the deviations, but I really don’t care that much.

    The CGI wasn’t terrible, Ghost Rider had bad CGI.  Deadpool was an unfortunate misstep; I’m disappointed my theater didn’t get the Deadpool ending because I was waiting for something just like that.

     I really liked that they didn’t do any storytelling through flashback.  This would have made for a truly convoluted movie.  Instead it was completely linear.  Think about if they had tried to go back and forth, Memento-style.  THAT would have been bad.

    I thought there was plenty of animal vs. human conflict that showed through.  As for the guest stars, I see Wolvie’s adventures as being intertwined with people briefly, so the fact that they were all there but not with any development didn’t bother me.  In my mind, Emma also had her telepathic powers and was reading Scott’s mind the whole time.  I know Scott’s beam works like a battering ram instead of a heat ray, so maybe it burned the walls in the school due to wiring and heated up Logan’s claws due to friction or something.  These details aren’t given because they aren’t relevant.

    Overall, I had a fun afternoon at the movies (for matinee prices too). 

  103. I’ll say this much: looking back at all of the X-Men and Wolverine stories I have read throughout my life, I am amazed that this is the first time I’ve ever seen a writer use that "adamantium bullets" idea. No matter what you think of the movie as a whole, it had a couple of clever bits up its sleeve.

  104. captamerica101 (@Autobot_Hunter) says:

    deadpool was underused

  105. ^Misuse perhaps.  It was the entire final fight scene and I would not classify that as an "underuse".

  106. I liked the movie. It wasn’t spectacular or anything. I’m gonna be it somewhere below X1 on my list but well above X3 as far as quality goes.

    Though I am fairly sure I turned off my expectation gland for these films after X3.

    I’ll just jot down some points here.

    * Deadpool was underused and what was up with him not having a mouth at the end. He’s the merc with mouth! (I don’t actually like the Deadpool comic character that much but Ryan Reynolds made me like him, sort of)

    * It turns out that African American girls can have WASP sisters. Maybe they had different fathers or something.

    * The Cyclops bits didn’t actually shit me like I thought it would. I still don’t really know why all that bit with the stealing of mutant powers was necessary but hey, that’s fine. I also really liked how Scott wasn’t very good at school. And he got detention!

    * Not sure Young James at the beginning could pull off the feral rage thing.

    * Why are we fighting on top of a cooling tower when there’s a perfectly good flat concrete yard down beneath us.

    * Gambit loses his cajun accent about halfway through the film. That bugged me a lot because his first scene in New Orleans was really good.

    * Will.I.Am was one of the best actors in this movie. 

  107. What are the 4 alternate post-credit endings in this?

    I’ve heard there is a Deadpool one (and I dont know what happens so dont tell me), but I dont know the other 3. If someone can say what the alternate endings are; without spoiling them I would love to read about it. Thanks

  108. Wikipedia is your friend. section 1.1 specifically.

  109. I really enjoyed the movie for the most part, but hate how they totally messed up Deadpool.

    Re:  the alternate endings: mine showed Logan drinking in an Asian bar and talking to the female bartender.  I won’t spoil it any further than that…

  110. If you missed the alternate endings and wanted to see the one featuring deadpool, its all over the internet.

    Google kungfu lead me here(Be warned theres an annoying guy talking through the whole thing):


  111. This will be a good Red Box rental

  112. My friends and i enjoyed this.

  113. My succinct review: About as good as I expected it to be. Not nearly as good as I had hoped. Iron Man it ain’t.

  114. I saw the work print a month ago and wasent impressed.  So skipping until rental

  115. Well I saw what the post-credit endings are….but considering I was spoiled (like many of you) with the leaked version it doesnt bother me.

    If they choose the one I loved the most; which I wont give away until tomorrow (when I see the film), then that is a brilliant ending.

  116. I havn’t bothered to read all of the previous comments, but I liked this movie a lot.  My expectations were pretty low, but I had a really good time.  Thought Renelds was really good, although I would have liked more of him.  I even loved Riggons as Gambit.  Was Stan Lee in this movie though?

  117. so ive just read EVERYBODY’S comments, this being my first. anyway, on to the movie…i havent seen it, nor will i. hell i didnt even see watchmen and in my angry fanboyness i missed out. do i regret it? i do now…however with movies in these "veins" some of us have forgotten that while we wish they would have done "this or that" with wade or "i didnt like how emma did this and why scott was even in the flick" we all have to remember one damn thing…they dont make these movies for "us" the fans of the BOOKS. they make these movies for good or ill for the other "fans" the movie goers who associate all continuity they know with the movies. yes from what ive seen they utterly butcherd wade, HOWEVER does your boss, coworker, neighbor really know anything about mr. wilson and how (if written right "HOLLA AT YA BOY") is in fact hilarious etc. im not defending or blasting the movie, just pointing out that no matter how much the reading community loves/hates these movies at the end of the day its not about us, its about the little kid at the book store.

  118. There are worse things than swine flu. X-Men Wolverine Origin: Wolverine’s Original Origins for example.

    I went to see this movie a second time because I hate my life so much that instead of turning to drugs and alchol I’ve become addicted to painful movies.

    *spoilers from here on out*

    Ma and Pa kent were great.

    The lead "acress" could have been replaced by a cardboad cut out and I wouldn’t have know the diffrence.

    Agent Zero is the guy who is an excelent marksman. After he is killed the scientist says he never had a chance and shows the adamantium bullets that they had lying around

    The secret ending feltlike manatee joke (South Park on Family Guy).

    Professor X still looks like playdough face. (I know I said it before but come on. It’s like they never were trying.)

    There were shots that didn’t make any flargin sense. (We can get more technical if you want but I’m not posting all my thoughts on the terrible directing choices that were made on the comic site. Thats more for a movie site.)

    Ryan Renolds part as Wade Wilson could have been played by anyone else just as good. (I like Renolds. I even liked Definatly, Maybe.)

    This was just a bad movie. Lets hope the rest of the summer goes a little better.

  119. Also take a look at the poster. Besides Wolverine and Sabertooth, the actors/actress on that poseter are only in the movie a grand total of maybe 21 minutes.

  120. I liked this film.  It was way more entertaining than the Watchmen, X3, Spider-man 3, et. al.
    Was it the post 9/11 commentary of the Dark Knight – hell no.  It didn’t have the effects, locations or acting to compete with that film, but it was still worth the 10 bucks for the entertainment.
    Missed out on all the "origins" stuff when I was out of comics, so I don’t have anything to compare it against either.  
    So how do you do a origin story on Wolverine and have it mean something?  He’s a blue collar hero that likes cigars, beer and porn.  He’s been f’d over many times, can take a beating and when he gets focused enough he can kick some serious ass.
    Ryan Reynolds will make a great Deadpool if they give him a shot.   
  121. I thought it was a bit pants, though Schreiber, who I like but felt was miscast going in, I really dug. Have a full article up on the site I am their film critic for. 


  122. Review

    I admit that I was not looking forward to this film. X-3 was just a pile of dog shit and I am just not down for anything X-Men related. But like any comic book film; it just draws me in. Maybe my brain is fighting with my gut or maybe the devil is forcing me threw some type of torture. I dont know. But what I do know is that if there is a devil and there is a hell….X-Men Origins: Wolverine will repeated in the cinema for all eternity for my pain.

    Oh my god, this was one of the worst peices of film making I have ever seen in my life. X-3 looks like Citizen Kane compared to what I witnessed today. There are just so many problems with this film, so many. Posters on this site, I know, want to probably just hear my opinions on Deadpool and continuity gripes….but there is just more things wrong with this film….those continuity mistakes are nothing compared to the film mistakes in here.

    There is literally no character development in this film. None. We get very little of Logan and Victor’s past. I mean it’s kinda cool they went with the recent Wolverine: Origins story as Logan’s true origin. But it’s really not played out, it’s just there for the audience to think ‘Wow, Wolverine and Sabertooth are that old?’ The sequence where they go threw each major war is just pointless. It’s poorly filmed and really is pointless in the grand scheme of things. But here’s the best example on why there is no character development. Dominic Monaghan as ‘Bolt’ (which I guess that’s his name, it’s never really told to us that well) is an interesting character. It’s not the best mutant ablility in the world but for the 10mins he’s on screen I was interested in him and wanted to know more about him. What happens though (again in 10mins of his first appearence)? Gets killed off-screen by Sabertooth and that’s the end of that!

    That happens a lot threw out this picture. People just die for no reason or are just plain useless in the long run. Gambit? Pretty much useless Wraith? Useless Deadpool? Useless (more on that in a sec) That chick Logan loved? What the fuck? Why am I suppose to care about a love interest we barely know in this film and just comes out of no where…..and then we’re suppose to be shocked he gets double crossed….I mean, I literally wanted to jump out of my chair and scream: ‘Why should I give a ****!?’ when she’s on screen?

    There’s so many more problems though. The writing is awful, truely one of the worst scripts ever for any genre of a film. Corny one-liners all over the place and again just no character development. There’s diaologue just to move us onto the next big fight scene. Speaking of fight scenes; they are poorly shot and just uninspired. I literally couldnt tell what was happening for most of the time. Plus there’s terrible special effects! Towards the end you could just clearly tell it’s all computer and they didnt ever bother to hide the blurry backgrounds from green screens.

    The acting, for the most part, is pretty terrible as well. For characters that are alive for more then just 15mins are bad. Will.I.am…..who the hell told said you could act? Not even the main actors like Hugh Jackman, Liev Schreiber, and Danny Huston are memorible. They’re just there for a paycheck and add nothing new to these already established characters. I mean Schreiber did seem to try to make a convincing Sabertooth….but just lose the long fingernails and he’s anyother generic villain. What I did like…..was Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool. The 4mins that he’s on screen and talking are spot on what Deadpool should be. Annoying and making jokes at every second. His jokes are terrible, but he was the only character they did right…..Until the fucked him up and turned him into Weapon XI. But in reality if this is how Wilson becomes Deadpool in film version….it makes sense. But like all the other characters he’s just wasted on screen.

    No redeeming value in this film. Nothing that makes you say ‘I’m gald I paid $10 for that’. Again this film makes X-3 at least more watchable then it was. It just goes to show that in today’s brilliant comic book films; like Watchmen, or Dark Knight, or even Incredible Hulk: Character development and a great script makes for a brilliant comic book film. Even if this came out during the early days of Marvel films (like Blade)….this wouldnt be acceptable at all. Waste of time and I pray there are people that havent seen it yet. If you havent; save your money for the other summer ‘blockbusters’ Not this pile of Wolverine shit.

    Grade: F

  123. I thought it sucked. I am so over origin movies. I liked ryan Reynolds as deadpool. Even though I am not a follower of the Deadpool comic I would go see him in a movie. All the other characters were pretty lame, especially Gambit. Blech!



  124. That has to be the longest movie trailer I’ve ever seen.

  125. Canada was NOT pro-south in the american civil war!

  126. @TNC Ok i didn’t think the movie was that bad. I enjoyed it. But i agree on the special effects. Like that scene where he is in the washroom looking at his claws. That might of been the shittest CGI I have ever seen in my intire life.

  127. @vaughan: Canada’s relationship to the American Civil War was complex.

  128. @thematt: I’m listening to the podcast now and I have to say……the people who made Fantastic Four (both films) should be insulted that the ifanboys mixed this film in terms of quality. FF was no where near as bad as this.

    I know you didnt love it or said it was that great Ron…..but B-?….I’m ashamed.

  129. On a side note (not affiliated with this movie):

    Who does Will.I.Am. think he is when he compares himself to Bob Dylan in that pepsi commercial?

  130. Also, the jacket was one of your biggest problems about continuity in films?

    Hello! How about the fact that the area where Wolverine gets his adamantium skeleton is in a completely different area then in X2? In X2 is was a mountainside, underground facility in a lake….here it was on top of a waterfall in the mountains…..Uh…..what?

  131. EDIT: I’m sorry the first part should be ‘In X2 it as a huge forest in an underground facility in a lake…’

    But still, two completely different areas

  132. @TheNextchampion – it’s only 9.5USD here… is it still not worth it?

  133. Just dont watch it, bottom line

  134. I enjoyed the movie. I thought Sabertooth was done very well. I’m shocked how many people disliked the movie. If I didn’t see the movie for myself and just went by the iFanbase I would have thought it was horrible.

    iFanboy, as always, thanks for the review/

  135. someone please start polishing up the script for Wolverine 2: The Hunt for the Jacket.  With lots of shopping montages please.  

  136. Wasn’t Wraith an official for Weapon X in the Ulitmate Universe?  More of a connection than the traditional Marvel U, but still…

  137. Wraith is John Wraith, or Kestrel. And he did have the same powers as he did in the movie. Not that it matters because the movie kinda sucked.

  138. Too hard to resist… sounds like campy fun. Especially Deadpool. Maybe on TV.

    Also what’s wrong with it being hard to believe? Was it just too much and too blatant for you guys? Y: The Last Man requires some giant suspension of disbelief but it’s still enjoyable.

    Also some serious nitpicky moment with the bullets 🙂 and the poster discussion reminds me of the comic book covers discussions.

  139. @Kimbo – That’s how he finds Jubilee – searching malls and he sees her wearing his jacket.

  140. Oh, also, Emma Frost was ugly.  That should not be so.

  141. Oh, and also, my entire theater cracked up when kid wolvie looked to the sky and yelled.  I thought that it would have been awesome if it actually had been ma and pa kent, like have a pic of christopher reeves in the house.  Also, was stan lee even in this?

  142. @Gabe – put on red sunglasses and she’ll be hot. Stan was there in the part of a man rolling in his grave.

  143. You know, Ma and Pa Kent are apparently "the Hudsons." How’s that for fan service?

  144. @Gabe: Despite beliefs to the contrary, Stan Lee doesn’t appear in every movie that adapts Marvel characters.

    @Jimski: I have no idea who those people are. Are they the Kents’ Canadian relatives?

  145. You know who was executive producer for this?

    Richard ‘Superman II’ Donner! Oh what your dedicated to make a great Superman film even better but not to try and get this peice of shit to fly?

  146. @conor: as in Heather Hudson, of Alpha Flight, raising-Wolvie-from-a-pup fame.

    My favorite part of the adamantium bullet reveal was that Agent Sharpshooter Bullseye dies in the helicopter, and only then do they pull out the adamantium bullets, all but saying, "Boy, he sure coulda used these. Oh well. I always hated that guy."

  147. @Jimski: So they’re… what? Second cousins?

  148. @Jimski: I didnt notice that reference….also I love it how Wolverine just let’s the bodies get blown up by the helicopter. It’s not okay for the motorcycle to get blown up but not honoring innocent victims…yeah that’s fine.

    Great joke btw with the bullets

  149. Rumor has it there was a Stan Lee cameo filmed but it didn’t make the cut.  Apparently Wolverine bumps into Stan and Stan turns and says "Watch it, bub!"

    For what its worth.

  150. How awesome would it be if every Marvel movie was preceded by a Mini-Marvels animated short?

  151. I thought I was alone with the Jacket gripe.

  152. I don’t think the name "Hudson" was actually said in the movie.  They were only Heather and James in the credits.  I’m assuming they were on the checklist.

  153. @ifanboys.

    Seriously, at times I am glad these movies suck because it just makes the podcast that much funnier.

    Podcasts like these are the most entertaining; bad material is the best fodder for laughs.

  154. A friend of mine pointed out that stan lee’s cameo should have been in the Japan scene, after wolvie says he’s drinking to forget, the camera pans to the end of the bar were stan shouts, "Samsies!"

  155. I didn’t have time to read all the comments, but I intend to do so. Whatever was said, this is a good movie to see in the theater if not for the action sequences alone. I know we as comic book people demand high art from our wolverine movies and I do agree with some of the bad things, but I do know this, I was expecting a dog when I went in  and I came out thinking that was a good movie, not great but good. I mean sometimes we read comics and thing man, that fight scene between wolverine and sabertooth would be awesome if they threw in a badass mix-mash of mutant powered something or other and had them fight on top of a nuclear reactor, well this ones for you! And for the record Sabertooth rocked!

  156. I feel somewhat bad cause the more I think about this film…the worst it actually is…and I gave it a negative review!

    Something that is bugging the crap out of me. You know the scene where Gambit uses his staff on Logan in the alleyway? Okay….wasnt he knocked out with an elbow to the face? Then why do we have an establishing show of Remy jumping over several buildings like a second later then slamming the staff on the ground? Either that was a huge time cut or the director/editor didnt catch that.

  157. Edit: ment to say ‘establishing shot‘….we need an edit feature.

  158. I had heard a lot of people complaining about this movie. As i was watching it, i was saying to myself "Well, the CG claws look kinda crappy, but other than that, I’m really enjoying this." Then I saw the last half hour. What in the blue hell was that garbage? The third act of this movie was just horrible. It’s like right at the moment i decided i was really digging the movie, they pulled the rug out from underneath me. *sigh* Oh well. 

  159. Another major inconsistency….or maybe a major nitpick, you decide

    That when Silverfox is shown to be dead and Logan finds the body…..she looks pretty good. There seems to be some type of gash on her chest but otherwise she looks good for a corpse. Know before you say ‘That is nitpicking as definition TNC’….hear me out. When we get to the scene where Logan knows the truth and learn Silverfox was tricking him….we see this elaborate ruse Sabertooth and her do. She gets drugged up to pretend she’s dead; but then Sabertooth (either his own blood or fake) splatters her with blood all over. I mean literally all over her clothes, arms, and face….That wasnt there the first time we see the body. Everybody caught this at the theater I was at so it was a major flaw.

    See it’s not like I hated this film cause it was ‘stupid’ or ‘big, dumb fun’. It’s just that there’s either major or many minor flaws in this film. Not continuity flaws just film techniques that people should’ve caught in the process of filming or even editing this thing out. I guess it’s because of the many retakes after the leaked version; but it’s just poor film making at it’s best. I hated this film as an action blockbuster, not a comic book translation.

  160. Just added to my goals in life:  slowly walk away from an explosion.

  161. @ultimatehoratio- not even that could phase the jacket.  

  162. @ultimatehoratio – Hell yeah!

  163. As far as timeline goes, in the first X-Men movie, Xavier says Wolvie has been searching for 15 years without a memory.

  164. Aww, I forgot to add this podcast to my downloads, and since I don’t feel like firing itunes up again, I’ll wait until tomorrow.

    In short, I was mildly surprised that it seemed like there was a good story buried in this movie, not at all surprised that the finished product was a mess.  And not even a very enjoyable mess, and I’m saying this as someone who liked Spidey 3 and X3. 

    Though in the ‘find something nice to say’ vein, I absolutely adored all the scenes with teenage Cyclops.  Predictable, I know, but I’m glad they did well by him.

  165. Best rhetorical question in an X-Men movie:

    a. "You know what happens to a frog when it gets struck by lightning?"

    b. "You know what happens when you go out looking for blood?"

  166. I will give the movie a nod for filling my need for an old Canadian gentleman to yell "Bullshit!" at a random time during a film.

  167. this is going to be a good drinking game movie.  Here’s what I’ve got so far:

    Everytime Wolverine goes, "Victor!" – take a sip.

    Everytime Sabertooth goes "Jimmy!"- take a sip.

    Anytime anyone goes, "Logan!" – take a sip.

    Anytime a character asks a rhetorical question like, "are you two tired of running?" – take two sips. 

    Anytime one of the actors is obviously in front of a green-screen – take three sips.

    Anytime anyone looks up at the sky screaming, "Aghhh!!" – finish your beer. 

    Work in progress so please all contributions welcome.    

  168. Were the screenwriters intending to infer that the "The Three Mile Island Nuclear Incident" was a fabrication to feed the media to cover up the Wolverine attack?  If so, then Wolverine lost his memory in 1979.

  169. At some point in the movie, Wolverine stops going by Jimmy and everyone is calling him Logan – with no explanation.

  170. hahahaha Oh man….suddenly this thread as turned into ‘Let’s fine all the continuity or B.S. scenes in this film’.

    I love it! 🙂

  171. @Ultimatehoratio: i thinks Gambit implied that the military choose  that site after the Three Mile Island incident because the threat of radiation would keep people away.

     JUst saw the movie. Here’s my 2 cents:

    It’s funny. They cast an australian TV actor to play wolverine’s adopted father that actually looks a lot like Hugh Jackman.

    All the extras and minor rolls in the X-men movies are casted with really attractive models/actors. It makes being a mutant seem like a good thing.

     When we see Stayker after his been told to walk until his feet bleed, his shoes are worn down with holes in them but his beard has only 2 days growth.

     Jackman’s musical background seems to have rubbed off on to the other actors. Everytime we see a fight, it’s brakes out into beautifully choreographed poses and flips.

    Why did Wolerine run up a Cooling tower at the end of the film? i know when someone picks on me, i usually run to the highest point i can find.

     I felt strangely sad for the Bulb. The actor convayed some actual emotion though the make-up

  172. Something that I know is totally minor and has no bearing on the film but:

    If this takes place after 3 Mile Island incident or implies there was a cover up for this……the first thing I notice is. That for a place that holds nuclear material; especially a cooling tower; only firemen and police crew show up….AT THE BASE OF THE TOWER! No one was wearing protective suits or goggles. They dont know what’s going on; even if it wasnt a nuclear leak (or what have you) you dont go to the base of the damage and assume there is no nuclear problems. I mean obviously there isnt since Stryker or Gambit didnt suffer from poisoning (and Victor/Logan could heal from it)…but just to see firemen and police officers with no protection on made me laugh

  173. @Gabe: I just read your earlier comment. Dude ,if you seriously think the actor who play Emma Frost is ugly i get the feeling you are going be very lonely. no offence

  174. Well, Wolverine is the best at what he does. And what he does  apparently is be a big wuss. I guess the movie was okay, but it wasn’t the Wolverine movie I wanted to see. I wanted to see a bad ass wolverine, this was not it. 

    How in the hell do you, as a filmmaker, making an action movie, miss an opportunity of making the escape from Alekai (sp?) Lake after the Weapon X procedure more badass? I mean he pretty much just trotted out of there. "Hey Stryker, C-ya, tell Victor I’m coming for him, okay?"


  175. @Nate: He didnt escape from Alekai Lake…..he escaped from a facility in a waterfall. Again it’s two completely different locations in this film and in X2. Unless global warming hit and erosion took place to shrink that waterfall into a lake….it’s not the same area.

    Plus what happened to that headgear Logan wore in the flashbacks from X2? (A clever nod to the Weapon X story in comics) This film couldnt even bridge the franchise correctly

  176. Sigh…sticking points not covered in podcast.

    Wolverine is in the jungle with a team of killer mutants and decides to quit the team. They tell him "you can’t just walk away." …and then he literally just walks away. 

    Wolverine fights a fire escape ladder. 

    Stryker turns him into a killing machine and then says "We need to erase his memory." Everybody then acts surprised when Wolverine hears him. Uhm…of course he can hear you, he’s only ten feet away. Maybe you should have erased his memory before turning him into a killing machine. 

    Bad cliched action movie dialogue "Look what the cat dragged in…"

    I kept waiting for the story to start but it never did. Jackman said he spent a year working out before the film started shooting. If only screenwriting got such attention. They tried to do too much and accomplished too little.

    I’m going to have to Netflix Punisher War Zone to get the taste of XO:W outta my mouth.  




  177. How about in that scene where the Weapon X guys are inflitrating the african skyscrapter….lots of those btw in a poor village…There seems to be bad 80’s musak playing in the elevator….for no reason. I swear Deadpool was gonna make a remark on it but the musak just seem to be there for atmosphere.

    Mind you this is the 1970’s in that scene. So why fuax 80’s musak is playing is anyone’s guess

  178. Hearing the podcast made me want to investigate a bit, and turns out there was a mutant related Wraith that could teleport, and not turn invisible like Ron found. http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/John_Wraith_(Earth-616)

  179. Awesome choice with "Wolverine Blues," guys.

  180. I love Josh’s pronunciation of will.i.am.

  181. i’m pretty sure the 80’s musak was an obvious joke… that everyone got

  182. "I loved it. It was much better than Cats. I want to see it again and again."

    Ebert’s revised review, post Weapon-X treatments

  183. @edward: Okay it’s a joke….but it’s the 1970’s in the middle of a poor african village.

    Do they have the technology to go into the future and pick up bad 80’s musak?

  184. It’s pretty much done, unless someone wants to berate the makers of this flick for not using the right amount of wind, thus making it unbelievable – it didn’t seem to happen during Winter! Or the wrong kind of foliage for that part of the country. 

    John Hammond didn’t get this much shit, and he farking bred velociraptors.

  185. X-Men Origins:Wolverine 2:The Jacket (which will very much be in the vein of The Red Balloon) will have it’s own spin-off…

    X-Men Origins:The Jacket 

  186. on the timeline- the final scene would have to be in 1979, since that was when the 3 mile island thing happened.

  187. Here’s something I dont quite understand:

    Why is there a second actor playing Weapon XI? They took the time to mention it was Wilson; Logan even knew it was him….but it’s not Ryan Reynolds as Weapon XI. It’s some dude name Scott Adkins played the part. I mean this is a total nitpick but: If it’s the same character, why not the same actor? They took the time to either find a body double (or in this case head double) for Reynolds or make some type of plastic model to resemble Reynolds.

    Reynolds did seem to put on some muscle for this role and he had to have done some type of training for this film. It just doesnt make much sense to me; it’s a waste of money to hire/train another actor when you have an actor you barely used….I dont know….my head hurts cause I keep thinking of more problems with this film.

  188. @TNC – Ryan’s parts were CGI.

  189. @TheNextChampion  What I heard is that Reynolds wasn’t happy with some aspects of the film and didn’t want to come back and do reshoots, so they got another actor for the fight scenes.  Not sure of the details.  Possibly he just wasn’t available.

    Also, you’ve said several times the elevator scene takes place in a poor village, but I’m pretty sure it was indicated that that was Lagos, Nigeria, a major city.

  190. @TNC-Okay, it wasn’t the same facility (which doesn’t really make sense but whatever) but it still doesn’t change the fact that that scene SHOULD have been awesome and it wasn’t. To me that was the biggest missed opportunity in the movie. 

  191. John Wraith is a real character from the early days of Wolverine when it didn’t suck.  He was actually a cool character with a lot of mystery that hasn’t been used since the Mark Texeira days.  The weapon 11 thing was horrible.  Who has swords in their arms??  Who throws a shoe??  ..honestly…  On your war issue, I couldn’t tell if the early war was Revolutionary or Civil War.  Their coats were dark blue.  I do have to admit that you were right about it being a series of moments.  There were moments when it was redeemable.  The scenes in the mountains, the scene in the lab, they gave me hope….then it was dashed…

  192. While it’s incredibly… hypocritcal of me and my thoughts on movies in general, I was somehow able to turn off my brain for this one… for the most part.  Perhaps due to such incredibly low expectations.  I didn’t think about the jacket, the semantics of giant arm blades or other things that would normally drive me slightly batty.  I even was able to give up on the admantium bullets. When they first showed up I stared in disbeleif, but when someone later made heard my inner thought of, "Yeah. That’s not going to work hun." I felt justified.  Okay. At least they understand it’s silly.  The only thing that took me out was a few instances of shoddy digital work (blades moment in the canadian kent bathroom, fight with remy was a pretty sound stagey and odd, especially the ladder bit.)

    But yes. Spade a spade.  It’s a fan service riddled, plot absent, superficial action flick.  And just how some people seemed to somehow actually *like* Die Hard 4 or Transformers… I guess this one was alright for me. Didn’t love it, but it was fun and I’ll probably happily watch it again some bored night when I’m hanging out in my pajamas with some pizza.

  193. @itsbecca- you didn’t like die hard 4?!? not the part where he jumps on the fighter jet? and then jumps off the fighter jet just before it explodes? c’mon!

  194. I don’t believe that they made a DIE HARD 4.

  195. @ohcaroline: That kinda makes sense; like if I had to do a ton of reshoots for this shitty film I would’ve said no. But it’s just funny how Reynolds pointed out in an interview that ‘Yes this is me as Weapon XI; that is Deadpool’

    @Nate: That is more important that the scene of Logan escaping was sucky. I mean he jumped out of the tank, got shot several times, stabbed a guard, then jumped off the falls….But it’s still a problem that this is a ‘bridge’ of Wolverine in the X-films and yet it’s a completely different setting.

  196. Who’s Wolverine?

  197. I thought it was pretty bad although it didn’t drive me up the wall probably because I’m not that big an X-Men or Wolverine fan (or rather I don’t know a lot of the mythology). Judging by a number of the comments here, they really destroyed a lot of important characters & continuity. It reminded me of those cheap knock-off science fiction films of the 1970’s. It’s astonishing this thing cost a reported $150M. On what? Will.I.Am (is that how he spells it?) was horrid. Sheesh. (SPOILERS) I wanted to cheer when he finally bit the dust. Hoorah for Victor! (Drink).

  198. HEY! I just remember anothered movie where two similarly gifted dudes have a sword fight with an evil version of themselves before the villian is cut in two and falls in a big hole.


    It was called ‘Titanic’

  199. The Weapon X facility in X2 was filmed in an old Hydro Plant and on sets that they built for the film in North America. The exteriors were also shot there. The sets that got built for X2 two would probably have been junked or recycled for other films sothey couldn’t be reused.

    Wolverine was filmed primarily in Australia and New Zealand.

    So while from a continuity standpoint I would have liked them to recreate the sets I can understandwhy they didn’t. Different directors will see a scene differently and even if Bryan Singer had done this movie he would have probably changed the sets a but. Also, it is too expensive to send a crew and Hugh Jackman up to Canada just to film a scene that goes for all of 10 seconds.

    However, that scene should probably have been one of the biggest set pieces of the film. This should have been the attack on the mansion from X2 with a totally feral Wolverine cutting through hundreds of guards. Instead we get a quick cut away to Ma and Pa Kent-Hudson and some nice (but un-earned ) bonding moments.

  200. John Wraith is an actual character from the comic, he could teleport was one of Logans oldest pals from team x and yes Wil I Am sucks.



  201. The jacket thing was actaully nagging at me too.  But after listening to this podcast, I know why it’s so important.  Think about it:  from the the Kent’s barn…  it’s made of leather from Krypton!

  202. @deemar: reconyoda beat you to the nerd-puncj 2 days ago. 😉

  203. punch

  204. Will.i.am was so bad. So incredibly bad. I don’t mean Michael Jackson’s "Bad" bad, I mean worst. acting. ever. bad. He was like a confused pot head the entire time, even when he was supposed to be a tough guy. I wish Sabretooth gutted him in real life.

  205. Huh, I didn’t think Will.i.am was that bad.  I didn’t think anybody was particularly bad or particularly good; honestly, this was the kind of movie that struck me as basicallly actor-proof.  I mean, Liev Schreiber is one of my faves — I heard him on the public radio ‘Wait Wait Don’t Tell’ me show this weekend and was just giggling like a schoolgirl — and in the movie, was just kind of ‘meh, there he is.’  None of the actors really seemed to have room to develop a personality — which was one of the strengths of the first two X films, and which I think even the third movie had some good moments of.  This felt less like a movie than a reenactment of a wikipedia page. 

  206. Will.i.am. was surprisingly good. he’s just a tool

  207. I did the research and turns out Agent Zero was pulled from Agent Zero in the comics, who was also Maverick who was on the old Team X and recently referred to as Agent Zero (I didn’t read the comics where this happened) – but Maverick most definitely wasn’t Asian…so another example of my point how they just took what they thought sounded cool and used it in the movie

    same thing, as pointed on this thread and numerous other places, John Wraith (Kestrel) was indeed a teleporter, but again the translation from comics to movie is a bit bumpy. that said, I didn’t think Will.i.am was that bad

    What is starting to bug me was the adding of Fred Dukes (Blob) to Team X – which is completely a case of "Hey let’s work in the fat guy somehow" during the script writing

  208. I thought Will.i.am was the best actor in this film.

  209. Seriously, I have no idea how to say Will.i.am. I’ve only ever seen it in print.  I think I’ll just say Bill.

  210. I think he prefers Billy.

  211. @Josh -I guess you never saw a BEP video. Will. I. Am. It’s like asking "how do you say KA BOOM!!!"

    Ever read Green Eggs and Ham? 

  212. It’s Official: ‘X-Men Origins: Wolverine’ Sequel Headed To Japan!


    Hugh Jackman has repeatedly told MTV News about his desire to bring the next “Wolverine” movie to Japan, but it looks some official confirmation is making the rounds now. After the actor told us just last week that he’d been discussing the Samurai storyline with screenwriters, Jackman seems to have taken the next step for a sequel.

    Earlier today, Variety confirmed our previous Splash Page report that a sequel to “X-Men Origins: Wolverine” is indeed in the works, and that it will focus on the Japanese story arc that Jackman and fans have championed for years.

    “There are so many areas of that Japanese story,” Jackman told MTV News in an exclusive interview. “I love the idea of this kind of anarchic character, the outsider, being in this world — I can see it aesthetically, too — full of honor and tradition and customs and someone who’s really anti-all of that, and trying to negotiate his way. The idea of the samurai, too — and the tradition there. It’s really great. In the comic book he gets his ass kicked by a couple of samurai — not even mutants. He’s shocked by that at first.”


    More in link.


  213. @conor  Why wasn’t that the FIRST movie?  Ahh well.

  214. @ohcaroline – have you ever seen a water tower in Japan? They have hollow-eyed robots and bicycles. They don’t require measly water-holding devices.

  215. @josh: I usually pronounce it as the sentence ‘Will I am?’ Cause I believe that’s how it’s suppose to be stated.

    If they are doing a sequal….I seriously would suggest different writers, director, and editors. Cause it wasnt so much the acting as it was the other filmmakers who ruined this.

  216. It’s "Will-I-am" like "Sam-I-am", I think?  I’m only aware of this because he was on CNN election night coverage as a hologram.  Trufax.

  217. It’s true. It’s pronounced Will. I. Am.

    Am I the only one who pays attention to pop culture? 🙂

  218. Josh would know if he’d been on ‘Fresh Air.’

  219. I was briefly surprised that I had missed him on Fresh Air.  Then I realized you were joking.

    Hey, I’ve seen him in magazines once or twice, but it’s not like I watch TMZ or MTV or something else he’d have been on.

  220. Will.I.am. is just as annoying as ‘Flo rida’

    I wish I could think of a lame nickname using a basic name/place. Then I would be rich

  221. <sarcasm>How about Bitt.Er.Man?</sarcasm>

    I had the Japanese post credits ending in my cinema and I was quite excited because I assumed it was saying that this will be the sequel. Hopefully they pull heavily from the Claremont/Miller arc where all the Japanese stuff is set up

    I’ll say it again, can someone get Bryan Singer back on these films.

  222. @reg5000: Bitt.Er.Man? That’s a great idea!!




  223. I knew the tags were a good idea.



  224. Guess I need to turn in my ifanboy card because I actually liked this movie. 

     Did I have problems with it? Sure the last part could have been a lot better and Prof X part was horrible CGI and totally ruined what should have been a cool moment.

    Maybe my really low expectations helped but overall enjoyed it and was a whole ton better than x3.  Justing thinking about what happened to Rogue in that movie makes me sick.

  225. @Jediaxle: I think we’re on the same page. I mentioned way above that X3 probably turned off my expectation gland when it comes to these movies. Wolverine was enjoyable. Clunky in parts and I never felt a sense of excitement from it but it was a nice way to spend a Saturday evening.

    There’s a quote for the film: "Wolverine, a light pleasant Saturday evening romp."

    Oh, and don’t get me started on the Rogue thing from X3 (unless you wanna hear my lenghty dissertation).

  226. I think you guys were far to kind to this film. I think it was the worst Marvel movie by far. And while I haven’t seen Elektra or Punisher: War Journal I thought it was worse than both Fantastic Four moives, Ghost Rider and Daredevil.

    The Wolverine movie was just a lazy film. The script was bad, the pacing was shoddy, the special effects often looked hastily done or unifinished, the third act of the film was a complete disaster and to top it all off I was bored to tears by most of it. Other than a few good lines and Ryan Reynolds as Wade Wilson I thought the whole film was an overblown waste of time.

    And while I’ll agree that Hugh Jackman usually makes a fine Wolverine, the character of Wolverine was not to be found in this movie. Wolverine is an impulsive character who walks the line between human and beast. In this he was a whiny little man who could never make up his mind. I mean toward the end of the film he literally walks away from Silver Fox then changes his mind and goes back.

    The film was lazy, sloppy, and everyone who had a hand in writing, directing, and distributing this film should be ashamed of the lackluster product they produced. The movie wasn’t only bad, it was embarrassing.

  227. @SilverAgeTom – Oh, I don’t think that’s entirely fair. The scene at the end is actually a decent character moment. Logan has learned that his entire "quest" is a lie. He has nothing to gain by helping anyone, but he goes back anyway. It defines him as hero. Keep in mind, this is the movie Wolverine. All we know in this film is that he’s fierce and animalistic, but he has a conscience that Creed does not. The film doesn’t bring out any really nuanced characterization, but there is a character there. I disagree that he could never make up his mind in the film. I think he actually stayed pretty true to his (movie-version) self throughout. And that whole man-beast thing is a little unfair in that most of us are bringing lots of comic book baggage into it. In THIS film, Logan doesn’t really struggle with his animal side much. He seems to be his brother’s keeper until he quits and his forced back in. Now, do I think that’s a good approach to Logan? Not really — but there is an angle there, for what it’s worth.

  228. Funny, reading through the various opinions, it strikes me that enjoyment of this film really depends upon your "threshold." Specifically, your threshold for flawed filmmaking. No one here is even comparing it to The Dark Knight. Most are saying that they lowered their expectations. No one’s saying it’s a great film. But some still enjoyed it.

    In the podcast was it Josh who mentioned that the film falls apart if you "apply any level of objective criticism to it?" That’s a sentiment I think really applies here. If asked to critique, I would probably rank Wolverine a "C." It was flawed, mediocre storytelling, but it’s not entirely without some merits.There is a structure there, and there are some decent spectacles within. And it seems to me that some people can ignore the bad and enjoy the good. Others can’t appreciate the good or can’t find enough to offset the bad. And that’s cool. It’s all about threshold.

    I was listening to Dan Slott on Word Balloon and he was talking about loving a bad movie because of one great scene or moment. I like that. I tend to often fall along that line. I can appreciate a good moment in a bad movie, and draw some enjoyment from that.  I think folks who enjoy this film are expressing some variation of that.

  229. @SilverAgeTom – If you’d seen Punisher War Zone, you’d have a better idea where we’re coming from. The perspective that movie brings…



    Ticket sales for X-Men Origins: Wolverine fell off more steeply on Sunday than 20th Century Fox executives had expected. The result was that the movie ended up with a total of $85.1 million versus the $87 million that the studio had estimated. The result also meant that the overall box-office finished a tad behind the comparable week last year, when Iron Man opened with $98.6 million, making it only the third week this year that sales were not significantly above last year’s.

  231. Wanted was a better comic book film then this….the more I think about it. It has less plot holes then Wolverine that’s for sure.

  232. @daccampo I didn’t think this movie Wolverine was in tone with the Wolverine in the first three X-Men movies. There are so many times in that movie where I just wanted to see Logan stab something I thought I’d pull my hair out.

    @Josh But I don’t want perspective, I wanted a Wolverine movie with a coherent script and with action scenes that actually involve Wolverine.

    Also, anyone else notice that the name Logan came out of nowhere. Stryker just started calling him Logan after Weapon X.

  233. Wait……A Deadpool film is offical!!??



  234. @TNC

    ‘Wanted’ is a better film??  


    Case rested

  235. Well let’s compare the two films:

    Wanted Bad Story, Bad Acting, Some plot holes, great action scenes, Good CGI

    Wolverine Bad Story, Bad Acting, Many many plot holes, poorly filmed action scenes, Bad CGI

    Yes Wanted is a Bad film and the ‘Loom of Fate’ is badshit retarded….but at least its a plot device. I mean what’s the reason for Logan getting his metal claws? He couldnt beat Victor with bone claws, and they were pretty deadly to begin with. How can updating them to slightly deadlier claws can beat Victor? Does he learn how to fight better or be a more profcient at killing? No. So him getting his claws at Weapon X makes no sense. Loom of fate, makes somewhat sense as a plot device even if it’s a stupid idea to begin with.

  236. Everyone complaining about Deadpool can now hold off their complaints, because a Deadpool film is now officially in the works. http://joblo.com/deadpool-spinoff

    BTW, I dont know if this makes anyone who hated Deadpool feel better, but in an interview, Ryan Renyolds explicitly stated that the character in this movie is Deadpool before he TRULY BECAME Deadpool. So all those people complaning that this wasn’t the character they know, be assured that it is seemed to be planned this way, since there will be much more character exploration in this spinoff!

  237. @SilverAgeTom – I dunno, I was thinking about that. In X1 and X2, Logan’s thrust was ALWAYS that he wanted to know who he was. His animal struggle was mentioned, but rarely truly felt. He was mostly just an outsider and loner because he was different but didn’t know who he was. In X2, he discovered his past, and it sorta wrapped up his character arc, which is why I think he was kinda boring in X3. He was Han Solo in Return of the Jedi… 😉

    So for me — I didn’t feel he was out of character with the previous films.

  238. @TNC – You have to keep in mind that it’s not a "plot hole" in the sense that he wasn’t actually ever supposed to kill Creed. That was all a ploy by Stryker. Actually, Logan getting metal claws to make him indestructible isn’t a problem with the film — it’s a problem inherent with the character’s origins over the years. To think that it’s smart to take an animalistic, questionably loyal soldier and make him even more unkillable is a fairly stupid idea. It was always about the fact that Logan’s the only one who could survive. They added to it slightly in this film in that the true goal appears to be Deadpool, not Logan, which makes more sense (in that they thought they could control him).

  239. @daccampo: I’m sorry I should’ve stated the plotholes and wolverine claws are two seperate things.

    I was just saying Wanted had fewer plot holes then Wolverine.

    While I was comparing the Loom of Fate to Wolverine getting the admantium claws as plot devices. The Loom of Fate; while inherently stupid; is a plot device for the main characters to kill people. Wolverine gets his admantium claws as he’s told to improve fighting Victor. But if you think about it, the admantium claws didnt need to be put on Logan in the first place. Cause how is slightly improving his claws going to help fight Victor? It doesnt make him a better fighter, or be a better leader in a fight. That whole part of the plot just seemed arbitrary, and pointless for the character. Cause his bone claws are just as efficent.

    I understand your saying it’s really all for making Deadpool to work in the end. Cause it was all about testing Wolverine to get Weapon XI a clearer goal. But if you think about it Wolverine agreeing to get upgraded claws does not help him what so ever. While the Loom of Fate in Wanted at least gave people a reason to do something.

  240. Sucked, laughably bad.  Wait for the DVD if you haven’t seen it yet.  Ghost Rider was better…like WAY better.  Roger Ebert’s review about covered this movie completely.  And where was Gambit’s creole accent? 

  241. @TNC – yeah, I see what you’re saying. Now, you can argue that the adamantium does give him an edge over Sabertooth in that it makes him even more indestructible. But, that said, It is pretty ridiculous that Logan would think that this whole painful transformation would be just what he needs to kill Creed. I *want* to say that it’s like someone offering you a machine gun to take to a knife fight, which sounds pretty good… except, that’s not exactly accurate, is it? It’s more like someone saying "hey let’s chop off your hand and graft a machine gun to it, and THEN we’ll send you to the knife fight." You’d probably say "yeahhhh, that seems like overkill. I’ll take my chances."

    Alright, I’m with ya; that’s pretty shoddy reasoning from Logan’s side. They needed something to show that he couldn’t beat Victor without some kind of serious upgrade.

  242. I’m curious: I don’t remember the Windsor-Smith Weapon X series all that well, and I didn’t read much of the 90’s Wolvie… in the comics, what IS Logan’s motivation for undergoing the Weapon X procedure? Was he a willing guinea pig? If so, why? Or was it forced on him? Anyone remember?

  243. He was abducted.  It wasn’t willing by any means.

  244. See that works much better.

  245. (which isn’t to say that the film *should* have gone that route — it’s just that if you want him to willingly participate, you’ve really gotta work out the character logic and the situations that make it an inevitability.)

  246. If he didn’t, how would Magento kick his ass every time?

  247. @daccampo: "I’m With Ya"

    Yes!!! (does a jig)

    Here’s something else that doesnt make sense. Why didnt Logan use his advanced senses at all? Sure he used it a couple of times; especially when he could tell the African dude was telling the truth. But he cant sense Stryker is lying to him about Victor? Or that Silverfox was lying? Now someone could say "But TNC, her ability is persuasion, so there’s no way he could’ve known"

    Bullshit! If Logan could sniff out a shapeshifter in X-1 then he could’ve sniffed his way out of Silverfox….and that sounds wrong.

  248. @TNC – they used those automatic sprayers in there – whenever someone moved it sprayed, and the orangey smell covered the scent of lies. That and a lot of cupcakes.

  249. @chlop: If only it was in Smell-O-Vision. At least this shit would’ve had an orange zest to it

  250. This whole thread is like watching The View…

  251. @daccampo: Granted that Wolverine’s character started to go downhill in X3. But in X-Men 2 Wolverine goes apeshit on Stryker’s men when they break into the mansion. He didn’t stop to think about it he just shredded people up. I’m saying that for a movie where Wolverine is supposed to be an edgy character he sure did very little shredding and he had alot of useless sidekicks for a supposed loner.

    There’s also no way Logan volunteered for the adamantium lacing. Because after they put the stuff in him he wakes up in a berserker rage and kills everyone at the facility. They implied more violence in the 90’s X-Men cartoon than in this movie. It was sad.

  252. @SilverAgeTom – yeah, but in X2 there were kids in danger, and this is at a point when Logan doesn’t know who he is, but only has some faint memories of soldiers and very painful procedures. And when it’s over, he’s very human again — it doesn’t really amount to a true animal struggle to me. So I’d argue that the movie Logan really only has the capacity but almost always has it under control.

    @TNC – well, you may be going overboard with the senses. People can beat lie detectors. And someone lying is a bit different than someone who is a completel different person (shapeshifter) and thus has a different scent. And maybe Silver Fox was persuading him all the time (her touch had last effects, as it sent Stryker walking quite awhile). So that stuff doesn’t bother me too much.

    Wow, I feel like i’ve totally gone into Simpsons Comic Book Guy mode at this point. I need to stop debating Wolverine’s senses. I feel dirty.

    (though, granted, we are talking about "story logic" here, and I’m a writer-type, so I consider this to be professional discourse. 😉 ) 



  253. @daccampo I don’t think we’re arguing about the same stuff anymore, so allow me to clarify my posistion. Speaking in screenwriting terms Logan never really had high enough stakes to make the movie interesting. For instance, Logan avenging his lost love is a good motivation. However if he lost Silver Fox and then was kidnapped and forced to undergo the Weapon X proceedure would have been stronger storytelling.

    Making him struggle between humanity and his beastial nature would have made an interesting story and I think the film would have been much stronger if it dealt with that. I’m not saying it was nessesary or in line with the movie Wolverine but it would have been something. Plus if Logan had stabbed Sabretooth through the head it would explain why Sabretooth doesn’t regocnize Wolverine in the first X-Men film. It would have ben rediculous but so is the adamantium bullet.

    @TNC I agree with daccampo, using Wolvie’s super-senses as a lie detector can make him seem too powerful. I don’t think he can reliably do that anyway. The problem I had with the Silver Fox character is the scene where she comes back seemed really forced and awkward.  I’m not saying it couldn’t have worked, but it didn’t.

  254. @Tom – oh yeah, I agree with you that the bestial struggle would have been a better angle. I was only commenting that it kinda never was REALLY the focus of any of the X films, thus this film felt consistent with X1-3 to me. It would have been a better angle — I agree with that. And I generally agree about the stakes as well. That was one of my major complaints; I don’t think we ever truly felt the stakes for for a couple of reasons, including some shoddy pacing that didn’t allow for deeper scenes that would create true empathy for the character.

    As I mentioned way back upthread, I do see that there was a skeleton of a good noir story there. IN this film, Logan was the good man on the fringe of society who kept getting "pulled back in" — just when he thought he was out. I do like that angle… that even when he thought he had found true love and peace, it was all just a ruse — he was played for a sucker. But because he’s a good man, he’ll still end up doing the right thing, even though he never seems to gain anything by it. Now that’s a cool angle. The problem was that the execution of it was so lackluster that we — as you mention — never really feel the stakes.

  255. Bad bad movie. Appaling green screen special effects, gambit scene made no sense (wolverine knocks him out then he comes running in from the roofs?) also, its just a bad bad movie. boo. 

  256. @daccampo/SilverAgeTom: He is a human lie detector! How many times have we see in the X-films Logan sniffing out people….either by noticing if they are lying or if a trap is coming. Look at the beginning of this film! Wolverine knew that African dude was telling the truth; but 20mins later he couldnt tell Stryker is telling the truth?

    You cant write one thing in a story and then completely contradict it in another scene. I understand this would make Logan a bit more powerful then he was displayed on screen. But writing wise they totally fucked up that part of his power. One scene he’s a human lie detector, the next he doesnt seem to have that power what so ever.

  257. @TNC – I don’t really remember that happening. Smelling a person (thus knowing it’s a trap) is different than telling someone is lying because their pulse jumped or they’re sweating or something. I’ll agree they should flesh it out, but — people can beat a lie detector. Just because the African guy was caught lying doesn’t mean that Stryker, who knows Logan, can’t keep his pulse under control.

  258. "You volunteered for the procedure" is something Stryker tells Logan in X2 so they’re working with that.  Obviously, Stryker could be lying but then you don’t have a story — the moment when he says ‘you volunteered, you don’t want to know what kind of person you were’ in X2 is really powerful and I’m glad they didn’t try to erase that.  ON THE OTHER HAND — what I took from that scene in X2 was that Logan was surprised he had ever been working for Stryker on a killsquad in the first place.  Whereas the movie doesn’t really get into his motivation for that the way it could have and focuses on ‘how did he get conned into putting the adamantium in’.  Which from a character POV is a lot less interesting.

  259. I think you’ve nailed it, Caroline. It’s like they were afraid that they couldn’t make Logan unlikeable before redeeming him. It seems like a producer/studio move — they want to make the character palatable to everyone, thus they gloss over any of his early "soldier" days, and we’re only told by Creed that Logan "misses the killing." The implication in X2 is that maybe Logan wasn’t a good guy back in the day. Here, he’s mayyyyybe bad for all of the credits sequence (and even then he’s mostly protecting Creed). That simply line in X2 creates a very dark backstory that’s much more compelling than what we actually got.

  260. woah Entombed at the beginning! whose music choice was that?(im guessing Ron?)

  261. @daccampo  Exactly.  The first time Logan does something active it’s when he walks away from the team — but why is that day any different from every other day in the 100+ years he spent with Victor?  Well, because the moviemakers needed a plot point.  

    As far as the drive to make characters likeable, this makes me appreciate what "Iron Man" accomplished more, in retrospect.  I can imagine the notes flying around, "But he CAN’T be a drunk!  Our demographic!" 

  262. Hurm…

    Anyone think that this particular Scott Summers is better than the one in the original series?

    Also just watched it and I’m glad I did so after listening to this podcast. I got good cheap laughs during the film.

  263. @Mangaman: This is the rebel teen Scott Summers. He’s always been the outcast so was always getting in trouble. Then he goes to Xaviers and he becomes the model student that we all know and love.

  264. The only good thing about this movie is that Cyclops was finally a leader at something, when he lead them all out of captivity.  Other than that this movie sucked big ones.

  265. PymSlap (@alaska_nebraska) says:

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