I may be down with the positivity 95% of the time, but, boy oh boy do I love a good internet fight among the comics community. Still, by the end of last week, it seemed that everyone was all hopped up and ready to throw down, or just not digging the vibe in comics right now.
A couple examples?
Friday, Rob Liefeld had been talking about how books are often solicited without being finished, and that despite his reputation, he’d done a lot of work on books that were done, and not solicited. Marvel’s Tom Brevoort called him on it, and they got to bickering in public. Here’s a taste:
A sensible Robert Kirkman stepped in, being the writer on the Killraven project in question, and tried to calm things down, asking “Why are we doing this in public?”. It was just a little bickering fight, but these guys are long time pros and should know better. But it happens.
Also on Friday from Toronto’s FanExpo, we heard of Marvel cover artist and designer Marko Djurdjevic, talking about why he wasn’t going to work at Marvel anymore, and it was reported as a bit of a tirade. You can hear the complete audio here, and judge for yourself.
These sorts of things happen now and then, but I’d spoken with a few creators who just had the feeling that things were a little rough in comics for the moment.
Earlier in the week, Grant Morrison’s Rolling Stone interview made its rounds as well, leaving a lot of fans and creators at one side or the other of some theoretical ideological debate where one kind of superhero comic is better than another kind of superhero comic, in some unnecessary all-or-nothing way. Then Grant is talking smack about Mark Millar and Chris Ware, and it was all titillating, but just a bit uncomfortable.
I started thinking about it, and why that must be, and I was struck with the idea that we’re on the edge of change, and I think a lot of the professional comics community is feeling the same sorts of uncertainty that a lot of fans are experiencing. External forces are at work, and they create stress, and that gets translated, like in any workplace, to people saying dumb shit.
The relaunch of the DC line is upon us for one thing. Regardless of how you feel about it, it’s a big deal. People don’t know what’s going to happen. The publisher and comic shops are hoping for a homerun, but it’s a lot of change to the normally rock-solid status quo. Everyone is watching to see what happens, even the folks over at Marvel who say they couldn’t care less. Along with that is the idea that these comics are going to go day-and-date digital, which is a huge change.
Meanwhile, over at Marvel (and yes there are other publishers, but between those two, we’re talking about most of the revenue in comics), Fear Itself is… there. It was supposed to be their return to event greatness, and even though they repeat that sales are good and the reaction is good, it’s just sort of… there. You can trot out the company line and reprint and do whatever you like, but this isn’t the big comics wide phenomenon that was promised. They certainly aren’t doing Civil War numbers. So what do they do now? They’re going to keep going in the same direction they’ve been going, and hope to drum up some excitement between now and then.
Then, just in general, it’s a tough time to be in comics. Sales, much like unemployment, aren’t showing wonderful news. The uncertainty, along with the end of the summer doldrums, put us in this sort of malaise, where everyone’s just waiting to see what the next big thing will be that floats the comics industry along for another year or so. Where is our next Bryan Lee O’Malley? How far can Mark Waid’s Daredevil relaunch carry us? What will be the next thing that rates better than, “Eh, it was OK,” in comic shop conversation? What will get the folks excited on both sides of publishing? We’re split people! There is no water cooler goliath.
Except for those DC books, and we’ll see very soon how that goes over, and I think the results will be fascinating to watch. Remember, it’s all supposed to be for fun, right?
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I find it hilarious that Kirkman became the ‘voice of reason’ between that fight on twitter, yet he deleted his own hatred toward’s DC on the first day of the new DCU on his own twitter. So I guess he’s only the ‘voice of reason’ when HE isn’t the one acting like a child in public.
This entire time it seems like a lot of writers, artists, editors, etc have been pretty childish against each other. More so then usual. Again it seemed like everyone showed their true colors once the NDCU news hit. Larsen acted like an asshole, so did Tom Beevort, so did Kirkman (but he deleted his tweets so he tried to hide the proof), and a hell of a lot others. I used to follow a lot of these creators on twitter but lately they act so childish it’s really hard to see it on my own twitter feed.
That’s why I only follow COOL creators like Scott Snyder, Ryan Stegman, and Declan Shalvey. Because (so far anyways) they are the nicest people on the web right now when it comes to creators.
By ‘this entire time’ I mean ‘this entire summer’. Damn lack of edit button!
Kirkman usually gets away with talking trash because he does it in jest and is often times self deprecating. He doesn’t personally attack creators either. It’s different. That said, I didn’t see the twitter message you mentioned.
@Amircat: Well you can’t see them cause he deleted them! It was personal attacks on DC, that’s all I remember.
Is it possible to personally attack a corporation? 😉
I don’t know that this is a new thing from Marvel’s side of the aisle. Their editors, specifically Brevoort, CB Cebulski and Steven Wacker, have long been using twitter to take potshots at their competition and other petty bulls—. DC has generally tried to rise above that stuff, probably because they are more corporately controlled than Marvel has been (who knows if Disney is going to step in eventually). However, I did find this recent letter from DC’s SVP of Sales, John Rood interesting for specifically targeting Marvel, their “point one” initiative and the see-sawing price of their X-titles: http://bit.ly/qX48gy
Mostly ,it’s ugly when this stuff is aired out in public and no matter who’s right, I generally think less of all involved. There’s a reason I don’t follow anyone from Marvel editorial on twitter, they often come off as shrill, petty people who would rather say crappy things about the other guy that talk up their own work. The only editors whose feeds I really enjoyed (Jim McCann & Nate Cosby) ended up leaving the company, so that says something to me.
All I know is that DC is getting me back to monthlies with the digital day and date. I am curious to see how many people like me as well as new readers will hop on this. Regardless, I hope it has an overall positive effect.
I rather agree with Hickman, these fights shouldn’t be over the internet. For an industry and temperamental as the comic book industry, your persona sells more than the facts. You can disagree with how a publisher runs business. You can argue about which event or direction a ‘universe’ goes is more productive… or BETTER. However, when you bring petty grievances to an already shaky monetary environment, all you’re doing is p!ssing on where you sleep. These ‘battles’ creatively and industry wide should more conjecture and lore, not the latest twitter feed topic. The industry is literally asphyxiating itself in its own crud. It doesn’t matter if you’re a DC Dud or Marvel Zombie, it’s more important that the creators hype up the industry and the upcoming storylines. Let the fans tune in or check out based on the work, not because JoeQ or Dan Didio duke it out in the i-ether. If anything, the sales (or lack thereof) should guide the industry, not the internal bickering. Leave that to Hollywood.
Out of all the ‘architects’ *shutters* that complained and took shots at DC after the NDCU news; Hickman was the only one to truly think good things about it. He even congratulated some of the creators he knows about the future titles.
Everyone else from Bendis to Aaron all acted like childs that day. So +1 for Hickman there.
You wanna talk about anger? How about that whole Marko Djurdjevic slam at Marvel to end his tenure there? That episode speaks volumes to how bad the tension between creators and editors are at Marvel.
I read about that! Pretty epic!! He basically said that Marvel sacrifices creativity for profit.
It really wasn’t as bad as CBR made that out to be.
And it really only speaks about the attitude and experience of one guy. I know plenty of people who work for Marvel and they’re absolutely thrilled about it. You’re looking at a case study, the details of which we don’t know a damn thing about.
I was there and his frustration was pretty clear but think about how someone who just quit a job normally sounds like. Plus it was just one side of the story. During the panel Jonathon Hickman sympathized on a couple of the points but was quick to say, “Look clearly Marko is in the middle of a divorce here but I’m not … I’m very happy at Marvel.” I wouldn’t be too quick to paint Marvel with a broad brush based on this.
And really it was the stuff he said about JMS that was really jaw dropping.
I just read the original CBR article on that and it isn’t even close to describing my impression of the event. The context and tone are all wrong. There are even a couple of facts that are flat out wrong or distorted.
I DO know that I pretty much loathe what DC is doing right now though and am enjoying (for the most part) Fear Itself. It’s not as intense as the NuDCU, but it sure reads better and more consitently.
How do you know? The New DC Universe books aren’t out yet.
I have a feeling that if Tom Brevoort had not shot back, most people would be on his side. Twitter fights should not be something the VP of publishing gets into.
@Conor, I’m talking about in terms of EVENTS, I’m aware the individual series haven’t come out yet.
@MrHymes01: But… what New DC Universe event are you comparing it to? There hasn’t been one…
I consider Flashpoint an event.
@MrHymes01: It is an event, but it’s not part of the New DC Universe. That begins Wednesday with JUSTICE LEAGUE #1. FLASHPOINT is the end of the old DCU.
I sort of got that in the sense that they’re transitioning to the new DC. However, don’t the stories pretty much just convert over to the new DCU? So they just pick up sometime afterwards? Or is it another ‘reboot’ after Flashpoint? I concede that I may be slightly confused as to what they’re doing.
@MyHymes01: The DC Universe gets reborn into something new after Flashpoint (which ends the old DCU).
Ah, then it’s FLASHPOINT I can’t get into. I patiently await what the new DCU has to bring. Thanks for the clarification.
@MrHymes01: No problem.
I know I’m probably in the minority, but I enjoy seeing these guys squabble a bit. So what? Why does everything need to be positive with flower sniffing? I think it adds another level of entertainment. Just like when people were told to tone it down in here a while back and not be so “negative.” Who cares, at the end of the day this is all just entertainment.
I like it too. That makes two of us … it’s just fun to talk about them airing out the dirty laundry.
I don’t work on the industry, so i laugh at it. but i don’t think i would be so cool if i did take part in the business. It must be really shitty to hear some a-hole in the other side of the fence talk shit about your stuff when in fact their all doing the same mistakes. New DCU, Schism, FF, What the difference?
Yeah i’m with you guys. i like getting a bit of an idea what goes on behind the scenes. that may be why i like Brevoort. I think he tells fans the way he sees it and some people disagree with how he sees it. What’s the alternative? Boring and bland press release answers. No thanks.
I think it feels a little uncomfortable at times because it’s such a small world, the comics industry, everyone seems to know each other. It’s also always seemed to have had this more positive, enlightened glow than other parts of the entertainment world. Still I think there’s a tension and negativity wherever you look these days, it’s out on the street wherever I look. Is it a new thing, or was it always there and I’m just getting old and jaded?
Well i think to imagine that comics were somehow more ‘enlightened’ is just rose coloured glasses
Marvel can claim all they want that they don’t care about what DC is doing with their 52 #1 titles but only a fool would believe that they are not watching customer reaction and purchases as closely as the people in charge of DC will be
Do they really claim they “don’t care”? of course they are watching …
Creative and artistic people should have personality traits that show some sort of social dysfunction. It is like a required trait in order to be a genius in one’s profession. 😉
Just goes to show ya, no matter how awesome your job may be, there’s always someone there to talk shit.
There’s always drama at any job. The thing about twitter or the internet is it becomes much more public. I work at a grocery store stocking shelves. Simple enough job. But oh the drama, people talking shit, this person hates that person, etc. So from the bluest blue collar jobs to the whitest whites. There’s always drama, even in entertainment (or perhaps especially in entertainment)
not only is it public. Twitter is archived by the library of congress for all posterity!
Just so Mankind can look back in the future (or our ape masters) and say “This, this is why they died out. The fool!”
The way I see it, if you’re a comic fan, you should want the new DC relaunch to go over like gangbusters. Why pick sides, everyone has some great stuff happening.
M!
You’ve actually guilted me into agreeing with you. It’s best for the industry that DC succeeds in this endeavor.
This is what I’ve been saying. My issue with all this fighting is that these guys are taking pot shots at each other and their collective business is dying, and what are they doing, fighting for scrapes. And ya I get everyone is fighting for every last dollar, and i would too if i were these guys, but to bad mouth one company over the other to make them look bad so you can maybe entice some readers to your side, is ridiculous. Marvel should have taken the DCnU as a battle cry and said, awesome, let’s keep going with this. They should be congratulating on victories, not bashing each other for trying something to do, and that’s been my issue with guys like Brevoort. To me he seems very elitist, that Marvel is the best there is and end of story. I’ve dropped a lot of Marvel books lately because of their attitude and way they’ve been treating the industry. Unless Marvel and DC decide to work together and make this industry better, someone else is going to come along and do it, and our favourite character will be sold the highest bidder. (end anger)
Sorry
Weakly – he works for Marvel. He has repeatedly said that he hopes the NuDCU works becasue it is good for comics and that a healthy DC is good for Marvel because competition makes everyone better. Seriously. i’ve read that on his formspring account dozens of times.
But yes, he works for Marvel so he is very proud of Marvel. Why should he be proud of Marvel? Becasue they’ve gained marketshare against DC. Now you might not like what Marvel is doing, you may think he is wrong etc; but to a business market share is important and it is as close to an objective measure as you can find. Is he right? Posterity will decide.
I hope DCU does well, but i have major reservations about DC editorial. I find it remarkable that the same editorial team that have presided over DC’s collapse are the ones engineering its reboot. I would love to collect Justice League or the Flash regularly. Anyway, i guess we’ll find out.
Bluestreak – Thanks for the info on his formspring. I am personally not a fan of the man, so don’t read it. I’m glad he hopes the new DCU works.
And I can tell he is proud to work at Marvel, you can really tell he has his dream job, and he is certainly proud of Marvel’s market share. And yes there are certain things that I don’t like what Marvel is doing, and yes there are certain things that DC is doing that i don’t like, and both revolve around flooding the market with too many books. and i know in business market share is important, and that good competetion only makes the industry better, but right now, i don’t think there is good competetion going on, and i don’t like the way Marvel does some of it’s business. I think just don’t think it’s making the industry stronger.
I don’t know why you think i would think he’s wrong, i just don’t agree with his methods, and his reasoning. Tom is essentially the ultimate fanboy, and i find that hinders his business side some. to me he comes off arrogant.
I hope DC Does well too, and ya there are a lot of editorial that were there in the collapse, but there is a lot of guys who werent, and a lot of talent there who can help make this something special.
I can’t understand someone wanting the DC relaunch to fail. If they are a hit, its a great moment for comics. It forces all the publishers to up their game and makes the medium better as a whole. As for the tension, times are changing. Change can be very scary especially during a time when things aren’t at their strongest. That may not be the case for all the tension, but whether they admit or not, everyone is worried about trying to make their place in this changing landscape in the comics industry. If I were a comics creator, I would be very concerned about the future. I don’t think industry is dying by any means, but it will be drastically different 10 years from now if not sooner. Just as a fan of the books, I am concerned about how I will get my comics. I can’t imagine what it would be like if I was making comics for a living.
@Weakly – Then i guess we mostly agree. I know a lot of people don’t like the way marvel do business, i’m assuming that you’re talking about the way they treat retailers. Honestly I don’t know enough on the topic to have an opinion.
Read his formspring sometime. i think he talks to fans as adults and they take that as arrogant.
The funny thing is that I see most of the arrogance and “ultimate fanboy” behaviour in his critics who are under the delusion that if they were in command they would set everything straight.
As i said, i want DC to do well but I have my doubts about editorial.
It amazes me that people are often able to seem incredibly intelligent, but behave in such an immature fashion. I’m sure I’ve been guilty of similar behavior, but that doesn’t excuse it.
I agree. There will always be those certain folks that make your blood boil… some people just get on your nerves lightning quick and all your patience goes out the window. However, though its a personal Twitter account, one still is a representative of one’s employer, etc. Sniping and caustic remarks usually do not resolve any issues and they certainly do not present any positive image of company/corporation. There really is no excuse for letting 140 character remarks be sufficient to make us act immature or belligerent. It’s difficult to watch grown adults acting like middle schoolers – regardless of the topic / venue.
It seems to be that there is a zeitgeist in the air that comics are getting stale. Stories are great, art is great, but the medium is not exciting. I have a bunch of friends who used to read comics. They cite “boredom” (and price) for getting out.
The medium needs some excitement and innovation. I would love to see more experimental approaches to art and sequential design. I would love to see something as fresh as Asteriyous Polyp make its way to a mainstream book.
I don’t know what needs to happen, but constantly recycling the same storytelling techniques, event ideas and the same art direction over and over again leads to a very stale situation.
I’m shocked by the Twitter wars creators have with each other. Get back to work! (says the guy who’s spent half his morning on this site *sigh*) No one worries about bridge burning?
Unfortunately, you know as soon as anything experimental happens, the outcry from the fanbase is ridiculous. My biggest gripe is the hypocrisy of those who cry out for something new, yet are the first ones to complain when their comics aren’t evoking the same feeling they had when they were 12.
oh yeah i know it. People think they are fighting over apples and oranges in comic art when really its different types of apples.
Imagine the outcry if an Avengers book was handled the same way that Mazzuchelli handled Aesterious Polyp? The internet would explode.
One thing I can’t figure out about the Big 2 is why so few new characters in recent years?
Comic book sales. New characters do not sell.
Sometimes one should just go along for the ride and enjoy & for twitter arguments that’s what I usually do. That being said Tom Brevoort totally shot Liefeld & his rant down. Way to go!
I’m wondering, Josh, how you and the other iFanboys’ reactions to all this hubbub has changed now that you have more familiarity with the creators on a personal basis. For me, it all seems so childish and petty, but do you find you have more or less sympathy with them since now you know a little more about the creators as human beings and not just as names on a page?
Wow that’s written awkwardly. Sorry.
It’s like anything. Sometimes people act dumb. Sometimes they’re justified. Sometimes I act dumb. It’s hard not to at times. When you get to know some people, you can like them more or less, and that can affect if I like their work in some rare cases, but usually I can separate. But it never escaped me that there are real people behind those names, so when you hear me pan something, I really mean it, because I don’t want to talk shit about anyone. Almost all of them are giving their best, and it’s a really, really hard job.
To your credit though, when you pan something, you don’t do the typical “This book sucks! #EpicFail!” that most internet reviews consist of. You always have a thought out and valid reason why something didn’t work for you. I would think that MOST people who are professionals in this industry can take well thought out, constructive criticism. I know if somebody reads something I wrote and says “It didn’t work because of this, this and this,” I value that input and try to learn from it. If you are doing something creative for a living, it’s almost a requirement you learn to take criticism (if it’s intelligently delivered) and just use it to try to make yourself better. Taking it personally is just ridiculous.
Something is changing in comics, and it’s kinda cool. The internet has made it possible for people to get stories out there without having to rely on someone at one of the companies taking a shine to them, and just in the last year there’s been a huge increase in the creation and availability of independent stories. The big 2 are stale, and have been for a while. That’s not necessarily a bad thing–I still love Spider-Man and Batman, and don’t want them to get too experimental with those characters–but freshness in comics is coming from the small/individual press, and, to a lesser extent, publishers like Vertigo/Oni, etc.
And I like watching people fight online, unless it’s people I know.
I’m glad I don’t have to deal with this Marvel/Dc angst. It’s all non-mainstream books for me!
It’s obvious what Marvel is going to do next. Wait for it….Civil War 2.
The creator-on-creator twitter tiffs have been ballooning of late. I’ve had to unfollow just about every Marvel creator I followed (save Jeff Parker and Fred Van Lente) because of the baby bullshit going on amongst them. I mean, the day DC announced Day and Date Digital Wacker said they’d give new readers cancer! What the hell? That’s not even remotely funny. Cebulski has made a number of comments that have started some problems, but the one I unfollowed him for was when he went on a tear about Green Lantern’s bad revenue. I think B. Clay Moore pointed out to him that X-Men First Class only did a million better, and Cebuslki went on to have a fit over it and then went back and deleted his comments. It’s all too common. Heck, Ryan Ottley compared Libraries to pirating books and began insulting anyone who didn’t agree with him.
In all… it’s sad. And amazingly unprofessional. Marvel (or rather Disney) needs to crackdown on this amongst their full-time employees. Companies in other industries have fired people for saying far less than this.
Agreed. In the first few days after the DC same-day digital announcement, I unfollowed a nearly all of the Marvel editors. Breevort was probably first among them. I’ve always been a big Marvel fan, but I couldn’t take all the schoolboy-style attacks on DC over what I think is a gutsy and fantastic move.
It’s one thing to be proud of your work, but it’s another to constantly insult your competition. And I say this as a guy who’s been reading 99% Marvel for the past 40 years.
I tried writing this earlier but I got a wordpress error about articleing. I can’t believe the immaturity of the two of these guys. Grow up! One of you is even an editor who’s got to be the guy with his shit together. As for the content of this tiff, who gives a fuck. Obviously nobody has completely finished their pages before a book is solicited.
Comics!
I read them. Nuff said.
Now now. It’s not all gloom and doom, Josh.
Like you mentioned – Daredevil is off to a fabulous start. Captain America and Bucky is winning the hearts and minds of clowns everywhere. Fantastic Four, X-Men are more interesting than they’ve been in years.
Regarding the tweets… yet another reason why there needs to be more female creators in the industry.
I’d really like to read a good Killraven book.
Morrison’s Rolling Stone interview, Liefeld and Brevroot’s Twitter fight, Krikman’s refereeing, all this is what the comic industry needs right now to clear the cobwebs. It is getting people talking. What’s the old saying? any news is good news – even bad.
Morrison proclaiming comics are dying and calling out his fellow creators in RS, might cause everyone to start bringing their A-Game to the table.
Bottom line is: The comic book industries fate has always, and always will, ultimately rest on the shoulders of the writers and artists creating the books we read. If the product is sub-par or offensive (ie: too much rape and sexism as Morrison mentioned), people will go elsewhere to be entertained.
Sometimes you gotta stir the shit storm.
I’m in a very small minority here on this, but I think publicly airing this stuff is a positive thing. Here’s my take on it. If a book is late and Liefeld is on the title, I assume Liefeld fucked up. We’d probably all assume that, unless Liefeld comes out publicly and says its not. That leads to finger pointing and public fighting. If its not Liefeld’s fault I would like to know to gauge whether or not I can trust his work in the future.
All in all I think a bit of this is good for accountability to the fans. It also keeps publishers and creators on their toes.
Another thing on top of what I was saying is creators that have other titles/properties outside of the big 2, probably don’t want anything to reflect poorly on them when the big 2 make mistakes.
Using the Liefeld example again, if he was on top of everything across all companies, but Marvel releases his upcoming Deadpool late for 1 reason or another that would reflect poorly on him. I think he should step out and call them out on it if they aren’t going to own up to the reason why the book shipped late.
Great article!!
Everyone flips out. It’s why I hate following any kind of star, actor, writer, artist, what have you whether it’s on twitter or through the news. The focus tends to be on the flip out and not the intelligent concepts and fun industry incites like Snyder’s Batman and Swamp Thing tweets. While these flip outs don’t happen that often, so not following them for this seems a little foolish, it still colors the creators in a more negative light. I’d like to believe I don’t read a lot of Alan Moore due to his very dense writing (something that always slows me down no matter who does it, it’s why I still haven’t finished Duncan the Wonder Dog) and not his ignorant remarks about modern American comics.
I take a break from comics and the internet, in general, for the better part of this year and come back to this? As long as creators are trying and good stories are being presented, I guess I’ll have to put this in the back of my mind. The big issue, for me, is trying to make sense of everything. Last time I read a comic book, Peter Parker was still USM, Bruce Wayne was just making his return, and everything looked like it was about to turn fun and exciting, again, in the world of comics. Welcome back, me, haha!
Can we just stop basing Marvel for Fear Itself? I like it much more than Flashpoint, but its not perfect. The art is WAY better though. For me this about the past, Rob Liefeld, has a history of delays and missed deadlines. Where is IMAGE UNITED 3? I would rather read a Youngbloods book over Hawk and Dove, but i’ll give it a shot in trade. Steve Wacker is a great editor! Look at how great his books are doing. BTW Axel is not doing this nor Joe Q. I still don’t think DC needed to a such a reboot, DiDio wants it. The key is to do great stories, DC has had some great stories, mostly Batman related but still its about make great stories. Marvel as well. Hell most of the best talent working at Marvel, were at DC in past. Could the real problem be that DC can’t keep talent?
I don’t know when it became news that Tom Brevoort acts like an asshole on the internet. Maybe the reason he didn’t get the EIC job, while being senior than Axel Alonso. But the fact, is Marvel is far better at dealing with talent than DC. It has been proven time and again. I mean, Mark Waid has burnt all his bridges their, Greg Rucka left on bad terms as well and Brian Wood seem to have jumped ship too. None of Bill Willingham’s Clockwork Storybook guys(Sturges, Roberson,etc.) seem to have books in the new 52. DC Editorial has been running a campaign of alienation for the past few years. Which is sad, because I am a DC guy.
My point is, there has always been an air of distress in the comics industry, especially the big two, now they just don’t have a filter.
It’s to be expected, really. Comics are a shrinking industry that is struggling to stay relevant in today’s culture. Sure, the movies and toys and the like are thriving, but the actual source material is a shrinking, dying form of entertainment. The creators and editors are under a vast amount of stress to keep their heads above water, and stress leads to petty bickering.
But even the creators who are working on said source material don’t appreciate the actual source material (with RARE exception). One of my biggest complaints about both DC and Marvel over the last five years or so has been that they both seem to be gunning for some odd ultra-modern ambiance that is supposed to be analogous of our current social & cultural condition… which I do realize has been going on with comics for decades, only it seems much more prevalent now (CIVIL WAR, IDENTITY CRISIS, et al). What they should be doing is giving us stories that celebrate our humanism, albeit on a super-humanism level, as well as showcasing a brighter future that proves why these heroes matter. Or at the very least, offer us some escapism from the day-to-day: Sue Dibney getting raped or Captain America shot to death don’t exactly do that. And this is not unlike what Morrison was saying in the Rolling Stone interview. When you have an entire universe that is “dark and gritty”, then what’s the point? It seems the sky is always red in both universes. That’s why I see DC’s relaunch as being so positive, as well as Wolverine taking his team back to Westchester in November.
As to the matter at hand, the bickering between individuals… it is childish, and I’m sure a lot of it does stem from stress. However, I think much more of it has to with the cultures of the companies themselves, especially with Marvel. In interview after interview I read with their editorial figures, they all come off like complete asshats with their snide remarks and their often misguided idea that their product is the superior product (I’m sorry, but the whole of the Avengers line is so shoddily written that it makes we want to claw my eyes out). And Alonso and Brevoort are the worst when it comes this. Now that’s not to say that DiDio hasn’t done it for affect either, but it’s much more obvious from the Marvel camp. I think if both sides worried more about putting out amazing books and less on busting the others balls, it really would help in averting the eventual implosion that seems imminent within the industry.
I’m confused- You don’t want to talk shit?
But you published an article highlighting a shit talking exchange
saying you love it.
Confusing.
*sigh*
DO YOU HEAR ME?!
*SIGH*
wow, that’s as close to a bare knuckle fight in the comic industry as you’ll get. tear. i like my fighting in my comics
Remember when you were a kid, and it seemed like grownups knew how to behave?
Can you imagine your dad having a conversation like that? In public?
“quiet down, you’re making a scene!”
I’m still amazed that Disney and WB, being as big brother and corporate as they are continues to tolerate this mudslinging by its representatives. I have a good friend who was fired from a WB studio job for saying A LOT less at a quasi public event.
Wally, these aren’t DC employees talking trash in public. Time-Warner is pretty strict about that stuff.
These type of fights are nothing new. Creators have fought privately and publicly before (remember the mcfarlane vs david debate, david also had public feuds with erik larsen and john byrne, who had fueds with claremont and marvel in general) the only difference is now with social media we can all experience it as it happens.
And honestly nothing anyone says in any of these is any worse than whats said in any comic shop or on any website including this one. People have differences of opinion, and people argue about petty things (geeks even more so). I dont hold anyone to a standard that i dont hold myself to. I dont care if they are creators, editors, public figures etc. They are people first and have the right to be as stupid, petty and full of shit as i am.
Just for the record, the article is not actually about the fights. There is a thesis.
I agree with you, Josh, that there is a sense that something has gotta give in the industry. Everyone’s list of what the industry’s problems are seems to be different but we all have a list. Fans, pros, retailers, and internet commentators, we all have our own idea of things that need to be fixed.
I would also expect that most of you are like me, where I have yet to hear any plans from any of the publishers that come close to fixing everything on my list. Even DC’s big plans for next month don’t seem to hold the potential for permanent growth of the industry as a whole.
That kind of anxiety is sure to express itself in many ways, including people acting out in the ways we have seen lately.
Just kind of realized this entire article kind of proved my point above. In an article trying to point out the massive tension building in a, I will always hate to say it, in a dying industry, most of the comments made by readers (myself included) went straight for the intro about the actual in-fighting. Focusing on the negative fact and forgoing the theory behind it.
And MAN, do I feel that tension. I’ve been bored out of my mind by most of what I read (superhero or not) just waiting for a push. I’ll pick up something different every month just to push it myself and everything just feels like its waiting on something. At this point I am pretty sure it’s just me waiting for whatever this is to explode. I see DCnU relieving the pressure and if we are luck it’ll bring the industry out of purgatory, but we’ll find out this month I guess.
I’m just hoping with Marko Djurdjevic out, Marvel will get Stepen Sejic (Witchblade) to do some more covers. His covers for Inhumans were beautiful, he made Medusa’s hair look amazing.
I definitely feel a tension. Hadn’t posted yet because I kinda wanted to let this one mull around in my head for a bit.
The whole damn thing is a giant “?” (question mark). Digital is sneaking in. Marvel has a critical flop on their hands (I’m a fan of Fear Itself too, but come on… I might be one of two or three) with everything coming down the pipe for next year being an extension of that flop. No one knows how the fuck the New 52 will turn out. Everyone is tightening their wallets so indie and lower tier books can’t get a leg up. Dogs and cats are living together. Shops are closing.
It’s a BIG question mark, for sure.
You, I like.
I am looking forward to a handful of the DC relaunch books. I hope it is successful as a whole. Me being the X-Nerd that I am, the thing I am most excited about is the end of Schism and the Regenesis launch. The X-Men have been long overdue for an overhaul like this, and I like that Jason Aaron is behind this. I like the idea of each book having a separate roster. I can’t wait for this to hit and I can’t wait for the knock down drag out fight between Wolverine and Cyclops. It’s an exciting time to be an X-Men fan!
And it IS fun, especially when you get to realize these mega stars of comics are regular working stiffs too!