According to Mike Flemming of deadline.com, your most beloved Avenger is set to be harpooned to death by Joss Whedon in 2012. Okay, no one's technically guaranteed to be offed, but if they do get sent through the turbines, it'll be at the directorial discretion of Whedon.
Again, this is not an official announcement, but Flemming believes that the ink is still wet or drying, but either way there is ink and there is a contract and there is an official decree from Marvel Entertainment coming very shortly. The flags are unfurling and the trumpets are being raised.
Set for release in 2012, The Avengers film will assemble Marvel's existing cinematic hero Robert Downey Jr. (Iron Man), with newcomers Chris Hemsworth (Thor), Chris Evans (Captain America), and Samuel L. Jackson (Nick Fury). Depending on the farmer's almanac readings for Hell that year, there may even be an appearance by Ed Norton (The Hulk). Plus many, many more.
According to several lint-coated black tees, Joss Whedon is the new Master, but is he ready to wield the shield? And the armor? And Mjöllnir? What say you, iFanbase?
UPDATE: Variety is also reporting on the impending announcement, adding that Whedon will rework Zak Penn's screenplay. Whedon is a top notch script doctor, so we like this tidbit.
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The man knows how to film a big ensemble cast. Excited.
Not sure about this. This doesn’t seem to be his style of medium ya know? He’s don’t soild work for comics and TV but his film record isn’t soild.
I think if he was asked to do a Spider-Man film then I’m all for it. I can see that working. But a major Avengers film, and the first of it’s kind?…..Nah I don’t see it.
WANT
Nothing, absolutely nothing would make me happier. I just started re-reading my Astonishing X-men Omnibus AND started watching Buffy for the first time.
The star are alligning…FOR ME.
I’m not exactly psyched, but I think the movie’s in good hands.
Also, *INSERT JOKE ABOUT MOVIE GETTING CANCELLED HALFWAY THROUGH*
@TNC Have you checked out Serenity? If you like Sci-Fi its great, even without watching Firefly.
I’d take Whedon over 90% of directors for this project any day, and he has shown he can do ensemble shos and movies too. I just hope he gets to do some re-writes on Zack Penn’s script, as to me, that is the weakest link in all of this, seeing as it is the guy who wrote X-Men 3 and Incredible Hulk.
@TNC He’s only done one movie and it was awesome, so I’m not sure why his film work wouldn’t be solid. Plus like @RoiVampire said he does great ensemble.
Although who knows if he’s writing it, if he’s just directing it it might be even better.
Chris Hemsworth always makes me feel like I’d want to punch him in the face. His eyes are so beady. And he looks like he would get really worked up about things like Nascar and Football, both entirely foreign concepts to me.
As a self professed Whedon fangirl, part of me wants to SQUEE. But another part of me thinks the Avengers are much too precious to be left in the hands of a TV director.
This rumor has been floating around for a couple of weeks, I wouldn’t get too excited until we see something official.
There are fewer things that would make me happier than for this news to be true.
@TheNextChampion – His film record is Serenity. It was a critical, if not commercial, success. He’s a good director with at least some knowledge and affection for the material. They could make a lot worse choices. Superhero action movies weren’t exactly Favreau’s established style, either, but talent is talent.
@MollyMcIsaac He directed the OG Buffy in the 80’s and the Firefly movie.
I can’t imagine how many people’s heads would explode from nerdgasms.
Sweet. Made my day.
@Alanrob/@gobo: Gonna kill me for this but not a fan of either show or film. Artistically he had a great eye but just not a fan if the characters. You are right though, he is good at ensemble casts….again I just don’t see it with him working on this.
@Tiocore, I know what he has directed. Please see: "Whedon Fangirl"
@TNC If he has a great asthetic eye and is good at ensembles then playing with established characters that we already care about would be perfect 🙂
Especially if he’s not writing.
@Tiocore He didn’t direct the Buffy movie. Just wrote it.
Whedon understands story. that’s important. For me, there are roughly two types of director — those who understand the importance of story, and those who are simply visual stylists. A visual stylist with a bad script makes a great looking flick, but it never rises above the script. Ridley Scott is a great example of that — his movies always look good, but if it’s a bad script, it ends up being a great-looking bad movie. But you take someone who understands story, and even if they don’t write the script, they work to ensure that the script is solid (think Christopher Nolan). They wouldn’t shoot it if the story wasn’t up to par. That’s how I feel about Whedon. Even if he doesn’t write the script, he’d certainly make sure it’s a story he feels is worth telling. And even if he’s not as flashy as more stylized director, it won’t matter as long as he’s able to engage the audience with the story.
Variety is reporting that Whedon will also be reworking Zak Penn’s existing screenplay.
And….directed Alien Resurrection….let’s not forget that, haha. I think he’s evolved since then, though, for sure. I could see him and Jon Favreau clicking, if Jon is still producing. I’d like to see where this is heading, for sure.
Also, to keep it in perspective: JJ Abrams was a TV director who only directed one film before Star Trek. And everyone seemed to be okay with that little endeavor. 😉 Just sayin’.
So this means either Summer Glau or Eliza Dushku as The Wasp right?
@mcbaker – He didn’t direct Alien Resurrection. He wrote a draft that was re-written drastically, as I recall. He was just one of several hired pens on that one.
@Paul – Nice. I figured he wouldn’t direct something unless he rolled up his sleeves and performed a little surgery on the script first. But I didn’t want to assume. 😉
@mcbaker – He didn’t direct Alien Resurrection, he wrote it. It was apparently a situation very similar to the Buffy movie.
If we’re talking Whedon regulars, Charisma Carpenter would’ve made a great Wasp back in the day.
Alien: Resurrection was directed by the great Jean-Pierre Jeunet!
Jon Favreau had done NOTHING like Iron Man and look how that turned out.
Branagh isn’t exactly known for his action blockbusters either.
Now let’s get Enver Gjokaj as Hawkeye!
Then again the idea of Robert Downey Jr playing off of Whedon is a wonderful idea…
Sorry, I meant wrote….was distracted by a puppy, sorry. Anway, stil think he’s evolved, and everything else I’ve said holds true to what I meant to say. Glad everyone corrected my mistake before I did, haha. Why I like it here.
I’m pretty sure this is good news
Good direction for the movie. Now assemble a great cast.
@gobo – Jean-Pierre Jeunet is indeed awesome. Sadly, that movie was not. Ah, well.
Nathan Fillion for Wasp!
I thought it was announced years ago that Favreau was going to direct after he was done with IM2?
This pretty much cements Nathan Fillion as all of the members of the Avengers that have not been cast yet. SIMULTANEOUSLY.
@conor, fuuuuuuuuuuuu-
@daccampo The director’s cut of Resurrection is the Alien movie I enjoyed the most.
@THX7168: It was raised as a possibility but they’ve talked about Favreau not being able to direct AVENGERS for a while now.
@daccampo Abrams directed the pilot to Lost, which had waaaaay bigger scope, cast and action than anything Whedon’s done. That alone proved him as a director.
I think that hiring him for his sense of story is a good choice, as having a good action-savvy 2nd Unit & DP can make up for a lot of that(James McTeague might need the work). My biggest fear is that we’ll have Whedonisms leaking out the mouths of Marvel icons once again. It almost killed Astonishing X-Men for me, and it would hurt this.
Also, Nathan Fillion as Dum Dum Duggan!
Here’s my rule when it comes to things which may be considered ‘NERDY’
One thing is quirky, ironic, cute and cool. When you conbine two or more nerdy things that’s when you become blind to just how insular and silly they are
Knitting – cool. Knitting a Dr Who scarf – Uncool
Monopoly – cool. Star Wars Monopoly – Uncool
I feel like this cross-fertilisation of Whedon and a comic movie won’t work. Outsiders seem to make the best comic movies. people like Nolan. Outsiders seem to have a distance to know what works with superheroes. what doesn’t work. What campy elements to highlight, what campy elements to do without.
Plus, ultimately, Whedon isn’t a brilliant director. He’s a good director of things which comic fans like.
But what do i know, hey?
@daccampo — You’re right about Whedon understanding story, though I’m a little wary just because there are common threads in the stories he tells that don’t seem to fit an Avengers movie. Though that doesn’t have to be bad; a little tension b/t different interpretations can get you an interesting story.
Also, it’s easy to make jokes about Whedon’s history, but I think this is an interesting choice, and it feels like it’s in line with Favreau and Branagh doing the earlier Marvel movies. They were both somewhat out-of-the-box choices. (No one’s allowed to make any ‘Avengers Musical’ cracks unless you’ve seen the ‘Love’s Labour’s Lost’ where people randomly burst into song, or the ‘As You Like It’ that had ninjas.).
He’s going to kill Pepper!
THIS IS QUITE POSSIBLY THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN EVER! …*breathes*…*dies*
Favreau has said he wont direct the movie, but will likely executive produce. I love Whedon as a writer and as TV director. I really didnt care much for Serenity. i thought it felt too much like a TV show on a big screen and never quite had the scale of a movie. That could have been budget restraints or even a desire to keep it feeling closer to Firefly. Still the best name ive heard for the job.
Wow…just….wow.
I’m completely on the fence about this. That said, they could’ve picked a much worse guy and I loved Serenity, so I’ll wait for the trailer before I get worried.
I really hope this happens.
I just looked over Whedon’s IMDB entry. He directed four episodes of Roseanne….huh….learn something new everyday.
@jonnyflash – Seems like you’re splitting hairs at that point. I’m not sure I agree that it’s bigger in cast or scope than anything Whedon’s ever done. And even if it is, it’s by degrees. It certainly doesn’t reflect on directing film at all. I mean, by comparison, Christopher Nolan had only done several films that were quite small in scope. Favreau’s films were also rather small in scope.
My only point is that an understanding of story trumps all. You can give someone a hot FX team and some big name actors, but it’s only squandered if you can’t wrap your arms around the story. Which is why I tend to have more trust in directors who have shown me they are STORYTELLERS first and foremost.
@Caroline – Sure, I understand that there are certain Whedon trademarks that tend to be more obvious in his work, but… I guess it doesn’t bother me because I LIKE to see it when storytellers can get their fingerprints on something. Sure, he’s not an "obvious" choice for Avengers, but… who would be? I’ve seen so many iterations of the Avengers, that I think I’d have a lot of fun with a some Whedon touches added to the franchise.
That said, I’m not too worried. With at least 4 films preceding this one, I think Whedon kind of has to respect the tone set by the other films. I suspect he’ll be working closely with Marvel and with other guys like Favreau — not too mention the actors that have already been playing their parts– in a very collaborative way.
"As You Like It" with ninjas?
Sounds like the greatest Shakespeare ever!
A horrible rumor… would be awesome if it came true.
I think what I like most about this is Whedon’s ability to manage an ensemble cast. It’s like the difference between a hero book and team book.
Just out of curiosity, is there an obvious choice when it comes to who will direct this movie? Sure there’s Favreau, but we already knew he was out of the running.
@daccampo — What I’m thinking, specifically, is that Whedon stories are always (or always have been, so far) essentially outsider stories — anti-institutional stories — and I’m not sure that’s the approach I want to see with an Avengers movie. But that just means it’s not the Avengers movie I would want to make, not that it would be bad.
@blulew23 — That ‘handling an ensemble’ point is a good one. I really think the biggest challenge of an Avengers movie might be in keeping Tony/Downey from completely dominating the rest of the cast. And maybe experience in TV is the best preparation for that.
If this actually becomes a real thing I think we could have something really special. Whedon’s Serinity was a great ensemble movie with lots of cool action. Also, this is kind of the perfect mix of nerd cred for most and worst case scenario people will think "A Movie with Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America! I’m In!!!"
Interesting. I enjoyed Serenity and Astonishing, but haven’t seen any of his other work.
BTW, this may all be assuming that Iron Man 2 + the Thor & Cap movies do good box office.
nerdgasm
This is all kinds of awesome!
Dear lord…. this news post has made my day.
Nice to see i’m not alone about Whedon
It’s proabably boing to bomb at the box office after the first weekend despite Whedon’s fans calling ti a masterpiece
@MastaP: exactly.
Outstanding! This definitely ups my excitement for this flick a 1000 fold. Too cool.
there maybe hope yet
@edward: I just read your earlier post about cross fertilization of nerdy things and I agree with you to a point. I disagree with you however about your refrences to things that are cool/uncool. "Uncool" in my opinion is a social trap as to try and shame people for liking something that they enjoy something outside of the norm. And lets face it most things that are considered "cool" are pretty "uncool" if you break it down
Some things people have told me are cool that actually arn’t: Nickelback, Charlie Sheens charecter on "Two and a half men", The final scene in X3, ect.
But even my point is moot because it still adheres to the Cool/uncool methodology. So I say if someone wants to play star wars monopoly let them, they want to make a doctor who scarf: super, and if they want to give Joss Whedon the Avengers well thats just awesome! We should stop being concerned whether something is "cool" and just be concerned on whether something is good.
@Patman2: let’s define "uncool" In this context, i meant to it to apply to entertainment that becomes insular, myopic and lacking self-awareness.
It’s demonstrated in this thread by people being over-excited by the chance that the guy that wrote Astonishing X-men could direct an Avengers movie. My point was whedon is a competent film maker. There are dozens of more talented directors. This to me seems like settling, not exspecting greatness from the Avengers movie, but fan service – And that is uncool.
BUT! this is all just speculation at the moment and just my thoughts on the issue.
Also, whoever told you nickleback, charlie sheen and X3 wasn’t cool sounds like a very wise man
@edward: I dont disagree with any of your points on Whedon himself. I’ll admit to liking the guy and being pleased with this news but I am not going to be jumping for joy if this becomes a reality(unless somehow this brings back firefly, which would F***ing rock)
Completely on the fence about this one. I really liked Serenity and Firefly, but that is it. Episodes of Buffy (especially the later seasons and the comic book season) are pretty much unbearable for me. That Dr. Horrible thing was also barely watchable.
I was introduced to Whedon via Firefly and then went back and checked out his other stuff. The only stuff I think I haven’t checked out is his X-Men run. I am now of the opinion that Firefly getting cancelled and doing the single movie afterward was the best way for that series to end.
I think he is capable of pulling off a good Avengers movie, but I also worry that he is going to turn it into a really expensive soap-opera.
I don’t think this is going to happen. I could be surprised though. I didn’t think Favreau would get to do Iron Man, or do a great job on it, and he knocked it out of the park. As far as Serenity went, it was kind of the least interesting episode of Firefly, but it could be much worse.
I called all my friends when I read this. It’s like Jesus winking at me.
I think this could be good. Even though i liked x-men i wonder how his script for that might have gone and he could bring the wacky, though perhaps not too much. Maybe Nicholas Brendon will be cast as Clint "Ronin" Barton, with Charisma Carpenter as Scarlet Witch.
Clint Barton: Sometimes I think about two women doing a spell… then I do a spell by myself.
Excellent news. The writer of the last decades best superhero comic (Astonishing X-Men) takes the reigns of the most important Marvel movie since Spider-Man.
@Edward- What do you know, indeed?
Whedon’s no chirs nolan. I know that much
This would be amazing
@Caroline — Yeah, I realized after I posted that that’s probably what you were talking about, but I think it kinda plays to my point: if the blueprint is already in place with the Avengers as an institution, I kinda WANT an anti-authority writer to smudge it up a little bit, suggesting that maybe add a little bit of the outsider or the anti-establishment crusader, y’know? Maybe suggest that it’s not cool to just follow orders, etc. The Avengers have definitely had classic storylines where they’re skirting those issues, after all. Maybe Whedon will make sure there’s a Henry Gyrich character he can punk. 😉 I mean, if Cap and Tony and Thor are all in place, maybe Whedon can make a Hawkeye or a Wasp shine.
@edward – I get your point about the Outsider perspective, but I will say this: Whedon demonstrated that "angle" with Astonishing X-men. He came in and he built on continuity, but he didn’t become a slave to it. He made stories that were accessible, while stripping it back to the good bits and relevant styles from both Claremont’s and Morrison’s runs while keeping it modern. So, I’d argue that Whedon brought the "outsider" take to comics, already.
@daccampo – Ron Moore to direct Avengers…or at least write?
@Daccampo: Honestly, and i’m not saying this to piss peopel off, i can only say the first six issues of Whedon’s X-men run really deverses praise. The following issues devolved into a campy tongue in cheek tone that does not suit the X-men.
An evil female robot, space aliens with no motivation and a giant space bullet. These things didn’t make me a fan
i remember visiting a friend of a friend who works as a writer in Melbourne. I was surprised to see he had, maybe, 3 or 4 of whedon’s first issues of x-men. Years later, i asked that same guy if he liked the whole run and he shot me a look like i was a idiot for reading that rubbish… and i agreed.
Now, Morrison’s run brought a fesh take to the x-men. it actually told a story about adolescence, relationships and some other universal truths while having superheroes punch people.
and i don’t know why you placed angle in quotation marks. This so-called "angle", if it can be called that!
Actually, now that i think about it. This is exactly the same as that fanboy reaction to possible casting news involving Nathan Fillion and a comic movie. Reguardless of the roll, Fillion is prefect for it. that guys could play Superman, Lex Luther and Lois Lane
I really like him working over the script, if he gets a top notch DP I could see this really working.
I think he might get the job because he can make the most of every penny. Serenity looks like a movie with twice its budget. Also, if we are going by previous record, he did final rewrites on Toy Story, so he’s already better than 90% of film-makers in holywood.
@josh
If we are judging by the degree of enjoyment, I might agree, but at no point did the movie looked like a TV episode.
Amazing news.
So who will play the strong female role? The Wasp?
And Thor must be played by Alexander Skargsg
@Joppe – I think thor’s gonna be kirk’s dad from star trek.
Does this mean that Captain America will be recast as Nathan Fillion?
Don’t offer this then take it away. I love most Whedon projects, and won’t be impressed if this goes the way of WonderWoman
That just great news!
I think this is going to be great! Whedon is a fanboy himself and will keep with the original story without much yield. He walked away from Wonder Woman because he wanted to stick with the mythos and not bastardize her story (which we all know Hollywood will do in a second). I know Astonishing was not the most popular run, but I love Joss’ storytelling.
@Matrix, Apparantly… well thats dumb.
I heart Firefly as much as the next poster.. and maybe it’s the fact that Dollhouse left a bad taste but i really don’t want Joss on The Avengers.
just getting a live action Avengers movie made with the leads from the other four movies (Downey Jr., Norton, et al) will be accomplishment enough.
@edward – I’ll just agree to disagree, then. I thought Morrison had a fresh take, yes, but I also felt his run fell apart, and he ALSO realized that the audience wants you to hit all the classic tropes in fresh ways. I felt Whedon built on that. I felt like he took the relationships and personalities that made Claremont’s run what it was back in the day, and he gave them a modern spin. To me, that’s similar to the outsider perspective you mentioned for movies.
But really, it’s all just part of me trying to demonstrate why the most important thing for a director is to have the storytelling chops. If you don’t like Whedon’s content — okay, well, you may still like his Avengers (if it comes to be), as it’s not solely *his* story. If you don’t like the way Whedon constructs stories (and that’s a different beast), then yeah, I’d be nervous because he’ll likely make sure that any film he directs is at least structured in a way that makes sense to him.
—
So, this is the internet, and my opinion holds no more weight than anyone else, but as a guy who has made some (short) films, I can tell you that in my experience, the key elements to being a good director are:
– Get a good DP
– Work with good actors.
– Have a strong command of the story you’re telling.
Everything else is gravy.
With an Avengers movie, most people are not going to be looking at how each shot is constructed. Much like Iron Man, the audience will respond to a big spectacle and a well-told story. The Avengers will have a big budget with big FX team. It’s already got a few actors who know their chops. I think it’ll look good no matter WHO directs it. So, IMHO, the best thing Marvel can look for in a director is someone who is passionate about what they do (and willing to stand up for it) and who understands how to construct a story.
Is Whedon the right guy? I dunno. But, in my mind, he fits the qualities I described above, so I think it’s a pretty decent choice if it happens.
Some user from this site mentioned how Enver Gjokaj should play the Winter Soldier, on twitter a few months ago, and I second that motion.
@muddi I doubt we’d have Winter Soldier in an Avengers movie, so that probably won’t happen here, but hellz yeah, Enver is the perfect grownup Bucky to me. And really, I’d watch the guy do anything at this point. Having seen him in "Dollhouse," I almost feel like I have watched him do anything.
@ohcaroline Why you gotta bring a brotha down? What kind of a world is it where a nerd can’t fantasy cast upcoming tentpole summer blockbusters! 😀
Also, Tony Head as Kang. Amy Acker as Wasp. Alan Tudyk as Jarvis. Gina Tores is Scarlett Witch. James Marsden as The punkified Wrecking Crew(all of them).
This is great news. Yeah, Whedon’s no Chris Nolan. But, Iron Man was no Dark Night either. He’ll fit into the huge over the top, popcorn movie, superheroie universe started in Iron Man quite well. Dark Night was a Action/Crime drama done in the tradition of William Friedkin/Michael Mann. Whereas Iron Man was a fast pasted summer action movie. I’m not expecting this movie to be on the same level as DK. Nor should anyone else. The only thing anybody should expect from the Avengers movie is a fun over the top summer action movie. And everything I’ve seen for Mr Whedon tells me he can handle fun, over the top and action.
I expect my Nathan Fillion Hawkeye.
Whedon is no Chris Nolan? More like Nolan is no Whedon.
We are aware that Nolan wrote the script for Dark Knight, plot holes and all? And brilliant dialogue as "WHY YOU WANT TO KILL ME?!" and "DON’T SWEAR TO GOD, SWEAR TO ME!" and Two Faces epic "What was my old nickname…say it…SAY IT!!!" Gordon: "Two Face." Are we sure this wasn’t written by a college student?
And the directing on the fight scenes? Including Batman’s fights? Where he was represented as nearly an embarassment on screen? The film was saved on Heath Ledger’s extraordinary acting talents alone, and nothing more, not Nolan. That and overly enthusiastic Batman fans.
Yah, Whedon doesn’t have those problems. With superior film and comics credits to his name, this movie is presumably in the best hands, if he gets the job. He can tell a better story than Nolan any day, that’s for sure.
@kickass
I am a gigantic whedonite, but Serenity, which is his only theatrical feature, isn’t half as good as Memento. or Prestige. or Dark Knight.
I am glad to see they may get someone who is at least a comics geek. His Astonishing X-Men comics were never too Whedon-ish, IMO. Similar to Phantom menace, but maybe not on the same scale, this movie has a license to print money. The only question is "Will it deliver?"
The last time I remember a comic geek directing a comic film we got DAREDEVIL, and we all now how that turned out.
(Badly)
@conor: First of all, I liked the Daredevil movie. Secondly, what about Iron Man? Doesn’t Favreau count as a geek?
Zack Snyder is kind of a comic book geek and 300 wasnt too bad…or maybe he has just a fan
I can see it now
THOR: "Do you know what happens to a Hulk when it’s struck by lightning? The same thing that happens to everything else."
No, I don’t think he was. He was a Hollywood player first.
No, Mark Steven Johnson gave us Daredevil, Elektra and Ghost Rider, or "the low points".
@RapidEyeMovement: If you liked DAREDEVIL, more power to you. Favraeu was defiitely not a comic geek.
regardless of if this film is made up to iron man or dark knight quality standards, i think whedon will help to keep the dexterity/quality of these characters that we know and love wholely intact, and to me that is the most important part.
Favreau’s called himself a comics fan before, but I think it’s that kinda "lite" comics fan, y’know, the kind we all grew up with, who occasionally borrowed your comics and thought the X-men were cool, but never went so far as to start picking up comics on a Wednesday at the shop? I did hear him name-check GROO THE WANDERER once, so that’s at least a little cred.
Not that I think any of this matters. I think Whedon’s not such a geek that he’d lose sight of telling a clean story (but, admittedly, it COULD happen, yes). It’s also a lot to assume that Mark Steven Johnson made bad movies because he’s a geek. IMDb.com suggests to me that he just makes bad/mediocre movies. 😉
Conor’s point about Mark Steven Johnson echoes my point. Comic fans don’t make good comic movies – Good film-makers do.
I think it comes down to this. If you want cotton candy pop-corn entertainment from your comics than Whedon is prefect for you. He writes cute dialogue, uses soft lighting and has attractive people kissing each other.
If you want comics to use the poetic device of the superhero to says something deeper about humanity and society than you should be expecting more form the avengers movie.
Uses the example of action films. Action movie are basically about superheroes without costumes on. It’s obvious when one of these films reaches for something more. Personally, i would love it if every superhero movie had the same intelligent and entertaining tone of films like Terminator 2 or the first Matrix
What was my point again? Oh, yeah, Whedon. Meh
@edward – You don’t like Whedon. We get it. No one is arguing that one can be a good filmmakers SOLELY by being a fan." I’m certainly not. I agree with you: "good filmmakers make good films." I just disagree with what makes a good director and whether or not Whedon IS one. There are plenty of folks who get something deeper from the man’s work than the "cotton candy fluff" that you suggest.
But we get it — you don’t like Whedon. I thought Final Crisis was deeply flawed and Blackest Night was mediocre. We all have our fanboy crosses to bear.
i thought we agreed to disagree?
This is like the Fred Wertham thing. He said juveniles committed crimes because they read comic books. Not every kid who read comic books at that or any time knocks over mailboxes or sets stray cats on fire. Not every filmmaker who likes comics makes bad movies. Can there be an advantage to non-fans coming in and making the film? Sure. Perspective and distance can be good. But it’s not an absolute pre req.
I’m kind of basing this on Whedon’s other stuff. Comics, TV and Movies. None of this stuff really applied to the no-fan auidence. hence, the story about my friend mortified by whedon’s x-men run
@edward – we did. Then you went on a lark about T2 and the Matrix for some damn reason. ;p
@Paul – exactly. That’s why, for me, I’ve not put it in terms of Fan/Non-fan, but tried to stick with: what’s he bring to the table as a storyteller? "Fanboy insight"* is, to me, just a tool. He can use it skilfully, or drop it on his foot.
*Not to be confused with "iFanboy Insight" which is clearly Paul’s ability to post topics that make me add tons of comments even after no one else cares.
I’ll be straight with you. I don’t think anyone wants the Avengers movie to try and wax philosophical or even venture towards the kind of social commentary that’s found in The Dark Knight. At least beyond what Whedon is capable of, and he’s a smart cookie with a lot to say. The Avengers ought to be a fun action movie. Whedon can be cutesy, but at least I know the dialogue will probably be smart and the characters well established. The template for the world is there with Iron Man. I’m happy with this choice and see no reason to expect something disproportionately shallow.
@Daccampo: i like the why someone can say Let’s agree to disagree.. but here’s a series of points that you shouldn’t respond to because i just said you shouldn’t.
To be clear, i was responding to comments Conor and some other people made. I.e., it’s not all about you
I think that about sums it up, Paul. Well-stated.
@edward – just having a little fun, man. 😉 I was satisfied to agree to disagree re: Whedon on Astonishing. But you went on to say that "comics fans don’t make good films" — which is a different argument. I was responding to that. Y’see? You can feel free to respond to whatever you want to. It’s all good.
@Daccampo: didn’t i just say it’s not all about you?
@paul: i agree the Avengers shouldn’t have the same tone as the Dark Knight however i think about how awesome it would be if it was approached with the same deadly serious and adult tone of Aliens. A full-on violent action film which made you concerned about the actaul hereoes in the instead of a live-action cartoon. It’s like what i said about what you expect from a film. I don’t want to see a medicore film even if it’s about the avengers
That doesn’t really jive with the world they’re establishing with these movies. Iron Man is a really well-crafted popcorn flick. There’s nothing wrong with that. To change the tone to deadly serious would be a major departure, and I don’t see them messing with a formula that totally work$.
…. nah
We really need a psychiatrist (or a team of them, if available) to analyze this thread. What went wrong??
@Stuclach: what are you talking about? is was pretty much totally about the merits of Whedon directing an Avengers movie.
@edward – Then it *might* be a good time to stop address things to me. I tend to respond to sentences that start with "@daccampo."
@edward – I apologize. I jumped into something that I wasn’t involved in. Every post in this thread is completely sane and relevant to the topic at hand (except for my last one and this one). My bad.
@ Daccampo: um, that’s not true. Just look at this thread.
Now, let’s end this nerd/mexican stand off. what’s your final rebuttal?
@Stuclach: See where it says ‘Joss Whedon to Direct the Avengers Movie?’ that’s what we’re talking about.
@edward – no, my statement is true. If someone has written "@daccampo," I have responded. 😉
….Okay, okay, Gobo actually directed a comment at me that he liked the director’s cut of Alien Resurrection, and I didn’t respond to that. Y’got me. 😉
Actually, I think I’ve said all I have to say. And actually Paul summed it up better than I could. So, me? I’m good.
Edward is wrong. Buffy is the deepest depiction of teenage mores on TV, ever! So no, not cotton candy fluff.
I’ll say this again, if we are to judge his competence only on his directing credits, then he’s already a better film maker than Mark Steven Johnson.