Spoilers ahead! If you have somehow accidentally ended up on this page and you don't want to know the big reveal in Brightest Day #24 then close your browser now! Begone! Run! This is your last warning!
Swamp Thing. Death. And now the great mage himself and tobacco lover, John Constantine, have all returned to the DC Universe proper. Maybe they never left, but either way, they didn't talk about him, sort of like an embarrassing uncle, which is appropriate if you're reading Hellblazer these days.
I am the resident long time Hellblazer fan around these parts, and even I've only been reading since about 1999. Prior to that, John Constantine's ongoing series, Hellblazer, has been running since 1988. Not bad, right? He first appeared in Alan Moore's Saga of the Swamp Thing #37 in 1985, and was surprisingly consistent with what he is today. This is no surprise, as we know Alan Moore to be a genius with ideas that continue to give and give. At the time, John was very much involved with the DCU, having run ins with Batman, Etrigan, the Phantom Stranger, Zatanna, and others. Since that time, John Constantine's title moved over to the Vertigo line, and had nothing to do with the goings on in the world of Superman and Batman, but apparently, that's done with.
DC does state that while John will appear in Brightest Day Aftermath: The Search for the Swamp Thing #1, Hellblazer will continue to be published by Vertigo, and them what love it will be happy.
But Josh, is this a good thing or a bad thing?
I… don't know. I don't know if we'll be living with 2 versions of the character, sort of like Punisher and Punisher MAX, or if they'll be combined. I, like any other comic book reader, don't want one of my favorite titles to change, but at the same time, this is sort of the way things go. Sales on Hellblazer don't appear to be going gangbusters, despite it being incredibly good for such a long time. Maybe this is what was seen as needed to juice readers. Maybe it's just that Geoff Johns and Pete Tomasi liked him and wanted to use him more. Is this another knick in the armor for Vertigo? It's too soon to tell. The title has long been a proving ground for writers who would later go on to become huge names, like Garth Ennis, Pete Milligan, Andy Diggle, Mike Carey, Brian Azzarello, Sean Phillips, Paul Jenkins, Warren Ellis, and many more. I hope it continues to be that.
Then, on the other hand, it's always a little fun to think of John, a scouser who really just doesn't give a toss what the cape wearers think of him, not to mention the Devil himself, and we might see more of that. He is as anti-hero as it gets.
If the image from Brightest Day #24 is to be believed, at least they're going to let him smoke.
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Yes well if the character is not doing hot in Vertigo then he’ll do wonders in the DCU proper…..Why? Nobody seems to know. I mean sales is sales. Just putting characters in the DCU will not make it go like gangerbusters.
@TheNextChampion more ppl will be exposed to it. He’ll start showing up in Zatanna! Which would be awesome
@TNC I bet he’ll do better in the DCU because then nerds will think it’s in “continuity” so his stories will “matter” because comics can be “stupid” like that.
Didio has confirmed that the vertigo book will remian untouched and that their will be two version of him now.
I personally have never read anything with constantine (I have only ever seen the movie) yet for some reason I am excited for this.
Yeah, CBR has an article with DiDio on Constantine stating there’s the aging in real time Vertigo version (so does that he’ll eventually die or will his demon blood allow him to live a very long time? I would love to read a Hellblazer storyline with an old John in a retirement home causing all kinds of trouble), and that the DCU version is the younger version that was last seen in the DCU years and years ago. Didio even says it’s possible Swamp Thing could eventually turn up in Hellblazer, but not right now. I don’t see why they can’t do two versions of each character that just moved back from Vertigo to the DCU. Hopefully they will, as DCU exposure can only help the Vertigo versions.
@AmirCat: It should be the other way around apparently. Cause Zatanna sells more then Hellblazer at this point looking at the March 2011 sales.
If they start a new ongoing for DCU Hellblazer I’ll give it a shot. I feel like I’m missing way too much information everytime I try to jump in on the Vertigo book. The one-shots and OGN’s for him at Vertigo are great though.
You care! You really do care!
Can’t wait to see what kind of mischief Constantine will cause in DCU proper.
I’d really like to see Constanine and Zatanna reunited. Who know, maybe they will get baked again together.
(spoiler bump)
As a very longtime Hellblazer fan, this new itself doesn’t bother me too much (despite the fact that I groaned “oh no” aloud when I read this spoiler elsewhere). If they were taking the Vertigo series, and putting a DC label on it, and reintegrating that book, I might be a little worried. This HAS been done before, after all. Mike Grell was aging Olliver Queen and making him more “real world” in his mature readers series, and when DC decided to pull him back into a more cohesive DCU, they killed him off and brought in Connor Hawke. And then eventually they resurrected a younger, more DC-friendly version of Ollie after a little time had past.
Constantine and ST both first existed in the DCU, and in THAT version of the DCU, they worked fine. That’s one of the reasons I loved STARMAN, because it–when it began a few years after the Vertigo split–was one of those few DC books who tried to maintain that unique, slightly more mature voice while still being at the edges of the DCU.
So it can be done. I can see John Constantine done in a similar fashion. And I have no doubt that someone like Andy Diggle or even Peter Milligan could easily write a DC-appropriate Hellblazer book. I just don’t want to see him used poorly. But then, I want that of all my favorite characters, and it doesn’t always happen. So, I have learned to live with that. 😉
But as much as I say all of that, I truly love what’s become of John over the past 20 years, as he’s pulled away from edges of the DCU and becoming a character who really lives and breathes and ages. He’s done well away from the super-heroes, and i hope we get to keep THAT version.
Side note: They released the old 80s version of the Wolfman-Colan Nightforce today. I wonder if this is a setup for characters like Baron Winter, Madame Xanadu, Swamp Thing, and John Constantine to all make some kind of resurgence at the corners of the DCU. Some new supernatural-themed book perhaps? Hmmm…
Well that bump didn’t work out right… oops.
I’m excited about this. I can imagine a number of awesome stories coming out of this.
@TheNextChampion “Just putting characters in the DCU will not make it go like gangerbusters.”
“If they start a new ongoing for DCU Hellblazer I’ll give it a shot.”
Seems as good a basic case study as any.
@Cooper: Ah……Gotta go!
Instead of bringing Constantine into the picture, maybe Johns and Tomasi should consider ACTUALLY CREATING A NEW CHARACTER. Imagine that! Writers creating characters! Revolutionary.
@HailScott They could do that but the current comics market is relatively hostile, at worst, or apathtic, at best, to new characters.
@HailScott I haven’t done an official survey, but I bet Geoff Johns has had a fair hand at creating more new characters than anyone working in mainstream comics these days.
Creativity isn’t about making something out of nothing. It’s taking what tools you have and best using them to solve a problem.
I literally laughed out loud when I read this, anticipating this very discussion. Thank you for not disappointing me, iFanbase. A mature, interesting dialogue so far.
@josh Just with the number of new freaking lanterns.
This just made my day. Am I the only one that’s excited to see a Constantine/Batman team-up?!?!
Interesting.
That’s the only thing that comes to mind…that and What next?
As long as they don’t try and tone down Hellblazer, I’m fine with 2 slightly inconsistent versions. Plus his first word returning to the DCU was ‘Bollocks’. To me, that’s a pefect introduction to John Constantine.
@SpiderTitan I’d read that.
Hellblazer/Robin
i had no issue with the reveal, i had a much bigger problem with the issue as a whole. Probably the absolute worst issue of any major event i’ve ever read. What a mess Brightest Day turned out to be. Ultimately it came down to just being a vehicle to reintegrate the vertigo characters into the DCU and the main characters were either ended up back where they started or with no resolution which i assume will be later explored in their own series.
Also, pretty ballsy of DC to retcon out the changes made by Alan Moore, which made Swamp Thing far more interesting of a character than he had ever been before. this was a HUGE leap backwards for the character.
I just hope DC treats constantine like marvel treats the punisher, a mature version for Vertigo and a toned down version for DC. No reason we can’t have both
@ redliberty Theres are the characters created by Geoff Johns: ( – – around a name denotes relation to the Lantern titles)
-Atrocitus-
Black Beetle
Blacksmith
Bombshell
Brother Grimm
Bushido
Cell
Cicada
Commander Steel
Crimson Avenger
Cyclone
Double Down
Elephant Man
Electric Eve
Everyman
Gemini
Geomancer
Girder
Goldilocks
-Isamot Kol-
Johnny Sorrow
Chris Kent
Killer Wasp
-Larfleeze-
Litterbug
Miss Martian
Molecule
Mister America
Muhammad X
Murmur
Nnamdi
Onimar
Synn
Osiris
-Jillian Pearlman-
Peek-a-Boo
Postman
Power Boy
Rainbow Raiders
-Red Lantern Corps-
-Saint Walker-
-Sayd-
-Scar-
Shatter
-Sinestro Corps-
-Soranik Natu-
Lady Styx
Sun Girl
Supernova
Talon
Tar Pit
-Tattooed Man-
Thara Ak-Var
Trader
Turytt
Courtney Whitmore
Young Frankenstein
Zachary Zatara
Zookeeper
Yep, I really wish Johns would go back to creating non lantern characters…
@josh and @jwright: Excellent points. Given the success of these writers (and wow! I had no idea Johns’s list would be that long), I’d say that while they are certainly not responsible for creating new characters all the time, they have the unique opportunity to do so. In this case, I would much rather see them create more new, memorable characters instead of using a character who is already established in his own right.
I like it. If you have these characters and a writer has an idea for them in the DCU why not use them? I just don’t see why there needs to be Vertigo “rules” where certain characters are locked away. I love Vertigo comics as well and see no reason to start bringing Unwritten and Fables characters in to the DCU but I enjoyed how DC lore leaked into Wagner’s Madame Xanadu series.
So let me get this straight though.
This entire story, which has affected other DC books, was only to bring two already owned DC character back into continuity? That seems annoying….but it takes big balls to do it.
@mikegraham6 You said it. The whole story was a waste of time. The ending was rushed and unsatisfying, like a cheap hooker’s last call.
i haven’t decided how i feel about this yet. i don’t know if the ending was what this story was leading me up to. In all honesty, and i might be totally embarrassing myself here, but i had no idea who that was for a few moments. I had to stop and think about it….yeah i don’t read that Vertigo title so its not on the front of my mind.
I think it could be a cool move to help boost sales over at Vertigo…maybe get DCU capes and cowl heads into other stuff. Having him jump back and forth between universes.
If this series is about rebirth, then every character fits, EXCEPT for Constantine. Does he need to be reborn? I see the Green connection…i always felt the environmental evangelism undertones from early on with this book. Yeah i dunno, glad its over, but not sure if i liked the ending.
@josh Even more than Paul Cornell created in Knight and Squire? I am half kidding because so many are just silly! (Man, I loved that book!)
I think Constantine in the DCU is a good thing, as long as it doesn’t mean something bad for Vertigo.
As long as Hellblazer proper remains untouched, I’m fine with this. I was an avid fan of JC years ago, and thanks to a recent pull list overhaul, have been back on HB for the last three months. It’s like I never left. Goddamnit I love that rotten bastard.
Having ST and JC in the DCU has a lot of fun potential. And if this means I can enjoy some version of Constantine running into Zatanna, Batman, Shadowpact, etc., then bring it on. I’ll take two variations of a favorite. Why the hell not!
And to those complaining that it’s “destroyed” or “ignored” years worth of Alan Moore’s work, go read your trades. He doesn’t give a shit, why should you? Do you want the character to evolve and remain relevant, or do you want that version of it to get crusty and die? Think big picture, fellas.
Now, more importantly, who wants to place bets on how soon DC does away with John’s silk cuts?
Anyone?
Spoiler Bump-o-rama.
Swamp Thing’s origins weren’t retconned. In fact, they were explicitly stated. The status quo for the DC character has changed going forward. Huge difference.
@Wally Don’t feel embarassed. I have never read Hellblazer OR Swampthing and I had no clue at all what was going on. All I thought was “This Black Lantern Oooze Monster is attacking and that is the big ending the series has been building towards…?” So yea, I think your enjoyment of the title is tied pretty directly to how well you know those vertigo characters. For me, I didn’t know them, didn’t care, and it all fell hugely flat.
Yeaaaaaaa… My bad. Spoiler bumpity bump bump.
@diebenny –i knew OF them, just weren’t characters that i’ve ever followed in any type of series so their impact really didn’t do much for me. I guess the *HOLY CRAP* moment wasn’t there for me. haha But yeah i agree, your familiarity with them has to affect how big of a deal this is for you.
my big question is whether or not Swamp Thing will have a recurring role in the DCU as Captain Planet meets The Punisher? =)
From what i’ve read a Constantine interacting with Batman, Zatana, Phantom Stranger….that could be good times. Actually on another site they inferred that this constantine is a lot like his earliest incarnations…anyone have any thoughts on that?
I’m properly way too excited for Swamp Thing in the DCU then I should be, but the introduction of Swamp Thing, and Hellblazer are the type of “hell yeah” moments that I read comics for. I can’t wait to see how DC integrates Swamp Thing into DCU. It opens up all new possibilities, especially when you look at Swamp Thing in term of being a big bad SOB like he was portrayed in BD # 23. How can it possible be bad to introduce a character with such potential?
I don’t know much about Hellblazer,aside from the fact that his books are widely considered to be very good. Even so, I’m excited to see how he’s integrated into the DCU. Again, it creates the possibility for new, and exciting stories, which is what I care about.
BD wasn’t a waste of time. It was a lot better then I expected, and I’m glad I stuck it out to the end.
*probably
spoiler bump
@AmirCat zatanna has never really lashed out at constantine from the events in swamp thing,hopefully that will play into the future zatanna/constantine stories. i really dont have a problem with one of my absolute favorite characters running around in the dcu since they mentioned the vertigo version will remain untouched.more hellblazer cant be a bad thing,right guys.
@RocketRacoon ill take that bet and say never! if u take away john’s fags then you might as well take away his trench coat and completely erase the character.
I’d prefer having two versions of Constantine. I love the Vertigo series and it’s good to see that it will not change. Having a Constantine interacting with the DCU will also be a blast. I’m excited to see where this goes.