Special Edition Podcast
Show Notes
Conor Kilpatrick, Josh Flanagan and staff writer Paul Montgomery team up to discuss Superman/Batman: Public Enemies, the animated adaptation of the first six issues of Superman/Batman which were written by Jeph Loeb and drawn by Ed McGuinness and featured a cavalcade of characters from the DC Universe. The discussion of the movie itself leads to a wider talk about superhero animation and how it compares with comic book storytelling. Also, Voltron.
Running Time: 00:24:59
Music:
“Cavalry”
Golden City
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Tons of fun. Thanks, guys.
S/B Public Enemies was decent. It was roughly as enjoyable as a slightly above average episode of Justice League Unlimited. The art was mediocre and some of the characterizations were off, but it was still rather fun to watch. It stayed very true to the arc from the S/B book, so (SPOILER) the ridiculous "rocket" at the end was also in the movie.
My kids, wife and I have watched all the Timm-stuff. We enjoyed this one a lot, probably as much as we’ve enjoyed any of the recent ones. It was good for the reason that (as Paul mentioned) JLU was good, for the relationships between the characters. It was also great to hear Conroy again after the debacle (and the whole movie was terrible) that was Gothan Knight.
I’m torn.
I love DCAU films but I hate Jeph Loeb.
Then I remember that I actually like this story he did. So I guess I’m going to go safe and make a rental for this. But knowning that Tim Daly is in this makes me smile.
I think Josh allows his expectations of what an animated film is supposed to be from a stereotypical stand point, that they are supposed to be for children, color his opinions of these films. The DCAU films are PG-13, and as such are not meant for younger audiences, and allowing your expectations of such to color your opinion seems odd to me.
So far these have been great, in my opinion, but then, I don’t tie the animated shows to the comics and expect them to be exactly like the comics, that is just stupid.
Any idea if the special features are worth the second disk?
Usually the documentaries they make for these are good, but I felt a bit burned by the contents of the Green Lantern disk (especially since it seemed to be more of a promo tool for Blackest Night).
I agree with Conor– I thought this was one of the best DCAU films. I would rank them as follows: 1. Wonder Woman, 2. New Frontier, 3. Public Enemies, 4. tie: Superman/Doomsday and Green Lantern.
I am no fan of Jeph Loeb’s work, and even less so of Ed McGuinness’ work– but I did enjoy this movie.
I urge Josh to watch JLU.
So don’t care.
I thought you were a big fan of ‘New Frontier’, josh. At least this site was ga-ga over it when it originally came out. Then again so was I, still my favorite of the DCAU films.
New Frontier is one of my favorite books. Therefore, I had some stake. Even then, it was pretty good, but I could take it or leave it.
I just don’t care about these films that much. Don’t know why,but none of them have delivered anything resembling compelling writing for me.
But I do know it’s not because I think animation is for children. That’s not even a little true.
@josh
I’m surprised you still watch these things. After viewing six of them and not really being into them, I don’t think anyone would question you passing on them from now on.
He’ll be back….
They always come back…
@ Josh
I can see how you feel about these movies because most of them are adaptations of comics and not being as great as them. But if you want to be blown away, please, I beg of you Josh, watch JLU, at least the First season of JLU or 3rd season of the Justice Leauge Series, whichever you want to go by.
The TV show is in no way an Adaptation and is in fact better than some JLA books I’ve read. I honestly had a hard time reading Grant Morrison’s JLA because Bruce Timm Spoiled me.
I am eager to hear what Conor thinks of the JLU episodes. The entire Question arc and the Luthor reveal are some of the best Justice League STORIES, regardless of medium, ever crafted. The Flash coming into his own at the end of that first season gives me chills. If only they had been able to do that final season….
Let’s lay off Josh a bit. Everyone on this thread has something they don’t like that others do. That is our right. We have preferences. Everyone I have ever discussed Proof with has loved it. I was unable to enjoy it because I found the artwork unbearable. That is just my preference. I don’t watch Glee or Mad Men, because every time I try I fall asleep nearly instantly (damn kids draining my energy). It is possible that Josh would love JLU, but it is just as likely that he (as a soon to be father currently looking for a job) has more important things to do.
I understand Josh’s rationale for not being interested in heroes translated into other mediums. I don’t like tv shows or movies translated into comics. No matter how good a Firefly comic is, I will never enjoy it like I would a tv series. Similarly, for Josh, a cartoon, no matter how well made, will give him the joy that a good comic will.
Still, I would like to force him to watch JLU.
@ultimatehoratio – I am envisioning you strapping him into your dental chair (what is proper term for that?) and then taping his eyes open while you make him watch every episode in order. He would thank you later (after he was released from the mental institution they placed him in after he savagely murdered you).
I think I just wrote a comic book.
Dental chair works. I wish someone would do that for me and The Wire.
You bring the dental chair, I’ll bring the tape and some Wire DVD’s. We’ll make a night of it. Perhaps you can wear a nice gaudy Christmas sweater.
@horatio/stuclach: I have some gaudy looking sweaters. Can I join in too?
By the way, The Question on JLU is the best thing ever in cartoons.
@TNC – Do you own a dental chair (or something equally intimidating)?
@stuclach I have a plastic chair with a ton of droppings and mold growing on it. Being disgusting is more fun then intimidating.
This is getting weird.
Hi, I’m stuclach. I occasionally get weird when I’m bored. Have we met?
You started it. "I would like to FORCE him to watch JLU." Weirdo.
I wonder just how far off topic we can get before posts start disappearing? I think we are pretty close, though we are still discussing watching Justice League related cartoons, so maybe we aren’t as far off as I though.
(Pardon me, I am somewhat sick and am medicated.)
@stuclach: I am the master of getting posts deleted. We just need to be a bit more whiny and hate on a person.
Right jos…
Gentlemen…
@Paul – I’m not that Gentle.
I think the movie that I enjoyed the most was probably Wonder Woman or New Frontier, and something tells me I would enjoy this one quite a bit as well. Great to hear differing opinions on it in the same podcast too.
I watched this with my daughter this afternoon and she loved it. I really noticed the quality of the interactions between Supes and Batman that were mentioned on the podcast. I missed those the first time I watched it. It increased my enjoyment considerably. However, this still isn’t up to the standard of the best JLU episodes.
My eight-year old after the scene where Lex Luthor becomes president: "THAT can’t be good."
Like Josh, I find the language in most of these DC films a little jarring at times. Doesn’t seem to fit the general tone, particularly in this film.
@ultimatehoratio – My three-year-old daughter said, upon seeing Lex Luthor on the cover of the newspaper declaring him prez, "Daddy, he doesn’t have any hair." I said, while imagining Conor playing the role of Lex in a film adaptation, "That’s how you know he’s evil."
Why do I imagine myself being upset at this? Only because I’m gonna think to myself:
‘This might be the last time Tim Daly and Clancy Brown do anything in DCAU. Either together or by themselves.’
Clancy will be back.
Andrea and Bruce love him and Kevin too much.
@Caleb: I hope so. Cause Clancy Brown is just as important to the DC animated line as Kevin Conroy and Tim Daly. If he didn’t voice Lex Luthor for all those years then it might not be as enjoyable to watch.
Well, I think he’s more important than Tim Daly… But yeah he’s just as important as Conroy.
He’s even done one off spots on some other Andrea Romano stuff too. That’s how Clancy got his role on Avatar.
As great as these three guys are — and they are indeed great — I just cannot understand the idea that they are the only three people who can voice Batman, Superman and Lex Luthor. There are plenty of great voice actors out there, many of whom have voiced these characters alread in these DC movies.
@conor: I get where your coming from. For the DCAU films, they have gotten great voice actors to play those three characters.
Guess you could say my childhood is getting the better of me. Like how the voice of Garfield died, he is Garfield in the cartoons and you can’t change that. I know that sounds really cheesy but that’s how I see it. I expect to hear those three and when I don’t I get a little sadden by it. Then again they do certainly beat expectations once the film rolls around.
Except for Mark Harmon being Superman, who is the greatest actor who ever lived.
I don’t think they are the only voices, but they were picked from the start for a reason.
To me, they are the dream team.
I think people just don’t like change. If somebody else does Batman or Superman, they will be different, but that doesn’t mean they are "wrong." It’s perfectly fine to not do Batman the same way Kevin Conroy does. I thought Jeremy Sisto was just fine in New Frontier.
Hey, I’m not Luditte. I loved Jeremy Sisto as batman, and Kyle Maclughlan as Superman. They worked for the New Frontier so well, in fact Tim Daly and Kevin Conroy would have sounded odd, bad even, if only because they seem like Modern voices for those heroes.
I don’t think I’d like to see Kevin Conroy in a batsuit anytime soon on screen. I think Bale does a great job as Batman, british or not. Now Tim just might be able to pull of a Superman, but maybe his time is past for something like that. Of course that’s semantics.
In the Comic, Katana was a double agent working for Batman. Powergirl was a double agent working for Superman. And John Stweart was part of that team sent to take down Supes.
@stuclach-hehe, Conor Luthor really would be quite an evil human being.
@drakedangerz – Staggeringly so.
Hey I just rented this at one of those ‘REDBOX’ booths you see. I’ll let you know what I think later guys.
Just finished watching it, and my fresh opinion on it is that:
It’s a good rainy day type of film. Not the best in the DCU animated films but still fun to watch.
Hearing all of those voices from the past; Conroy, Daly, Brown; was just a blast to listen too. Plus other voice actors were good like CCH Pounder (ridiculous name yes), Xander Berkeley (another ridiculous name), and Corey Burton. The animation was also pretty good and it envoked Ed McGuinness pretty damn well. Sure the anatomy is bizarre, like Power Girl who was very strange to look at, but for the most part it felt right.
Only problem was the writing of it. First it doesn’t help that it’s based of a Jeph Loeb story. Yes I do like this in the original comic form, but Loeb’s ideas and dialogue comes out really weird. But there we’re just some weird pacing issues and awkward moments between characters. The banter between Batman and Superman was fun though.
Overall: Not a bad film by any means but not the best for this studio. If you wanna see some superheroes fight a lot, remember the good old days, and see (maybe) your favorite story get adaptated to a DVD…..Well then this is a good film for you. Otherwise, I say rent it.
To state once again: Power Girl looked really freaky in this. Almost to the point where I closed my eyes until she was once again off screen.
@TNC – What did you think of the Gestalt space ship? You know, the one that would have shattered as soon as it hit the slightest bit of turbulence?
Sometimes it would remind me of watching an 80s cartoon show with how cartoony they would move. Especially how Powergirl moved. And To this day I still don’t get why Batman Dressed up as Hawkman and not Capt Marvel. Yeah it gives the option to show how simular Superman and Capt Marvel are, but Superman doesn’t need the space in the costume to hid Gadgets, but Batman does.
@CalebTheTimeTraveler: IF he dressed up s Captain Marvel, Batman would be without a mask.
@stuclach: I’m sorry I’m trying to remember this spaceship. Are you talking about Toyman’s design or something else?
I could watch Batman and Superman bantering about being Batman and Superman for about forever. That’s the number one thing I took away from this movie, as for the rest of it, you guys are pretty much spot on, on everything. I don’t think I have agreed with an entire podcast before, but man, the weird shoulders, the strange flair up of swearing, I mean, it’s all there and it all bothered me.
Personally, I didn’t care for this one as much the other animated films. Not a fan of the Ed McGuinness style. The best parts were definitely the interactions between Superman and Batman, and also Luthor being Luthor. It annoyed me how Superman had a shard of Kryptonite stuck right by his heart for so long and he was still going pretty strong.
I actually prefer George Newbern’s Superman voice from JLU over Tim Daly’s probably because I didn’t watch much of Superman:TAS when I was younger and I couldn’t remember his voice. Newbern’s Superman just felt a lot more "right" to me.
Oookay, I was watching some youtube videos and Superman from TAS sounds very similar to JLU’s Superman, but Public Enemies’ Superman sounds pretty different to me. It’s sounds deeper. I’m not sure about the voices anymore.
Just saw this in the last few days. I was surprised at just how bored I was. The stakes seemed ridiculously low. I mean, Superman got shot with a Kryptonite bullet (!) and the rest of the scene played out as though he’d gotten the wind knocked out of him. Batman got jacked in the head by Hawkman’s mace, which only seemed to daze him slightly. Villains got taken out very quickly and then disappeared from the background. The fight scenes didn’t go anywhere.
By the way, how much destruction did the heroes do to the roof of the Daily Planet? My goodness! Newspapers barely have the cash to pay their employees, let alone fix massive holes to their roof and replace their giant satellite dishes.
In the end, it was like watching someone playing a very pretty video game. I kept hoping that the movie would pass me the controller so that I could have some fun too.