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ohcaroline05/16/08YesRead Review
Jazzlawyer05/16/08NoRead Review
Avg Rating: 3.4
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  1. Mike Carey loves me.

    That is all.

  2. I have to admit this appeals to me too.  Black Queens?  White Queens?  Hellfire-y goodness.

  3. I love Carey’s use and knowledge of X-men history. This book would be right in my wheelhouse….if it wasn’t about Xavier.  But I’ll stick with it, because Carey has still managed to make it really interesting each month. 

     If Brian Xavier is being brought up, I wonder if Carey will do something with Hazard(Carter Ryking).

  4. ^I kind of agree in that if this wasn’t SO focused on Xavier specifically then I’d like it more… but I’m still looking forward to this because of how Carey’s been able to reference X-Men history.

  5. Why all the Xavier hate???

  6. I hear ya, Xavier’s a great character. 

  7. Xavier’s just dull. His past has been explored so much that it’s just not necessary anymore. Atleast not right now.  Even the stuff Carey’s done so far has been stuff we’ve already seen with little to no further insight. 

  8. shoot.  my shop didn’t have this, I was looking forward to it.

  9.  @shogunt   It’s one thing to say that a character is dull to you — fine, there’s no way to argue with that — but since I’ve read a lot of Xmen comics and seen maybe 3 issues dealing with Xavier’s past, I think it’s a little puzzling to say it’s ‘unnecessary’.   What do comics ever do but look for new angles on old stories? 

  10. Its impossible to argue an opinion, and we beat a dead horse every time this book comes out.  My real problem with this is that carey was really building something from issue 188 all the way through the crossover, and all that momentum is gone.  I just hope it picks up when Gambit and Rogue show up, it would be nice to actually see some X-Men in an X-Men flagship title

  11. the book was good, sometimes you need a reminder of what the history is.  it also gives them a chance to reinvent the char.  reflect on his life and make the needed changes.

  12. @ohcaroline: No Xavier hate from me. In fact I’d say he’s my favorite X-Men character.

    The thing is, I just don’t trust Mike Carey (or almost any other writer) to really use him effectively, especially not in solo stories.

    This was a good issue, though. Everything from the art to the dialogue to Xavier’s use of his powers–everything was great.

    But the overall idea, that Sinister played a role in the past like that… I really don’t like it. Sinister has always underperformed as a villain, imo. No writer has ever gotten him to live up to the promise that Claremont gave him during Inferno; in fact, that first storyline of his remains his best use. And just inserting his influence further into the past like this doesn’t make him seem more impressive to me, because it seems so obviously tacked on. It just breaks my suspension of disbelief. Sinister just isn’t worthy being given this much influence. For example, if Fantomex was somehow being revealed to have been the father of Apocalypse… it’d hardly make me more appreciative of either character.

    I can get over that quibble, though. This series is definitely enjoyable to me. I can just say to myself that the rewriting of Sinister’s influence in the past "Never happened!"

  13. @cutty  it may be impossible to argue likes and dislikes, but it’s certainly possible to argue the basis for opinions.  If somebody’s primary response to the book is ‘Xavier sucks and is boring’ I want to know what that’s based on; and if someone says ‘because this has been done before’, I want to know where and when — not because I doubt it’s true but because I haven’t read all 700+ issues of various X-men comics to know what’s being referred to.   Also, I thought that everything Carey built from his start on the series was resolved, so I don’t mind a new direction for the book.  And Xavier’s not an X-man?  Really?

    @flapjaxx  I’m not sure how I feel about the Sinister story — he’s definitely underperformed, but I think there might be potential.  I’m not sure you’re going to be able to ignore this retcon though, b/c I have a feeling the current crop of writers aren’t done with Sinister.  I was mostly annoyed that the Jean Grey flashback gets two freaking pages — including one panel where Brandon Peterson apparently traced three different-sized pictures of different women and slapped them together in an anatomically dubious pose. 

  14. I don’t hate Xavier, but I find this story really boring

  15. @flapjaxx and @ohcaroline.  as to underperformed villians, i think that a lot of current writers have trouble writing old villians.  Now most of the time when i see an old villian come back they feel under played.  a good example of this is any of spider-man villians, that used to be major villians are now only filler space for new stories.  Even most X- Villians dont seem to eminate the feeling of danger anymore, or that big of a threat.  writers need to figure out how to get villians to grow as well as heroes.  But untel then it is more  "i already beat him once, i’ll just do the same thing agian and the fight is over."

  16. @ohcaroline – I’m 100% fine with Xavier, but i’ve always thought he works best as a part of the group.  I don’t need his dialogue being the basis for an entire drawn-out storyarc, especially not on a book that was probably my favorite out there.  Yes, I thought this issue picked up a little bit and I’m now more willing to give it the benefit of the doubt, I just miss having a cast of characters.  To me, why I love reading X-Men comics is the group dynamics between all these characters that have so much history together.  I just wish they would have confined this to a 3 or 4 issue storyarc or made it a seperate mini-series

  17. @cutty- I think that we are going to see a group dynamic grow as this book progresses.  They needed to take a few issues to transition from MC to the new status quo.  Now that they have done so, (I hope) they will slowly introduce a supporting cast for the ‘new’ Xavier to interact with. 

    As for this issue, I enjoyed the story very much.  The art still doesn’t do it for me.  I think its the colors, more than the pencils, but it just doesn’t work for me.  My nitpick for the week is the interpretation of Xavier with his shirt off.  It drives me nuts when everyone in comics is jacked beyond belief.  Last time I checked this guy was what… 60? 

    @ohcaroline- I hope you’re correct in thinking that more is in store for sinister.  His downplayed ‘death’ in MC really bothered me.  I thought it was one of the weaker points of the storyline.

  18. @cutty  Totally valid point about the ensemble.  I liked the first arc but now I’m a little impatient to see what form this book is ultimately going to take.  I did like this issue okay but i’ll have to read it again before i can form a more coherent opinion.

  19. @ohcaroline–I think you and I are approaching this from two different angles. I might have been reading longer than you, so I’ve seen Xavier’s past rehashed ad nauseum. It wasn’t that they were just exploring his past, but that they weren’t providing anything new in regards to it. That was my beef.  This issue was different, though.  Revisiting Brian Xavier’s role in Almagordo is a great move and long overdue.  This stuff hasn’t been touched since X-men 11-12 I think. I still don’t enjoy stories simply about Xavier, because I also feel that he’s only useful in a mentoring role. But I do enjoy Carey’s writing and obvious knowledge of X-history.

  20. @shogunt: I really don’t like Xavier as Mentor because he sucks at teaching to be honest. And in my opinion the logical way to make Xavier important again is to make him appealing. And I hope they don’t mess it up and try to make him the same person as he was.

  21. Xavier should only be a mentor to the youngsters, because it makes little sense to be a teacher to the adult X-men.  Perfect scenario: Charles gets his mind put back together and is a changed person, and decides to lead the Young X-men rather than that skrully Cyclops they got right now.

  22. Xavier already past his "teaching-mutants-to-control-there-powers"-years. I mean he trained great leader in his past, that is why he should start to allow them to lead the next generation. What would then the whole point of training and punch his beliefs into their heads, when he would rule the X-Men Universe by his own hands? Xavier should not be leading in any way, because he must gain the trust from his first pupil. All they do now is to pity him and pushing them as far they can from his leader role.

    First he needs to live up to his title and gain respect by his students again as teacher.


  23. @shogunt   I think this same issue came up re: the current ‘Green Lantern’ arc — I think there’s value to revisiting old stories through the lens of a new writer.  I find it worthwhile as it shows what is interesting to the new creator and gives ideas of where they will focus.  No two people ever tell the same story the same way and in the case of a character like Xavier, you’re looking at a synthesis of different stories told over the years.

    Also it’s worth remembering that not everybody has read every issue of a comic and has all the details at the tip of their brain.  Personally, I’d rather get a refresher course the way that Carey is giving it rather than melt my brain with wikipedia.  It’s a matter of preference, I guess.

  24. @ohcaroline – that’s a great point.  while i’m bored with this issue because I feel like I’ve seen it before, I am loving the Green Lantern current origin story because I only started reading GL during the Sinestro Corps  (don’t let my avatar fool you).  And I’m sure some longtime GL readers are pretty bored by it, but its all fresh to me.

  25. @ohcaroline: When I said that my response would just be to treat it like it never happened, I just meant that it wouldn’t really influence how I felt about what I consider to be the "real" Charles Xavier. (I think in a recent iFanboy podcast Conor said something about how in his mind he has his own version of DC continuity that ignores certain retcons that he doesn’t enjoy or can’t believe in, and I feel much the same way about X-Men history. It’s just a personal choice. If more and more gets made of this Sinister/Xavier retcon, then I might still buy the books (if they’re well-produced), but as I say, that aspect of the story going to have zero impact on me.

    @CaptainJack: I think a lot of the problems with underperforming X-villains have to do with their original creators leaving before they could really establish the characters. Don’t get me wrong, I think guys like Apocalypse, Sinister, and Stryfe (for example) are really neat concepts, but no one’s really known what to do with them. Their creators only used them for an arc or two and then bolted. Precedence wasn’t set about how these guys could function as anything other than supreme masterminds who we’re all supposed to shudder at the idea of, but once they step out of the shadows…what happens? All writers certainly know how to make Apocalypse and Sinister seem foreboding, but that’s it. It’s like the villains are STILL in the initial shadows that the original writers gave them, and in subsequent stories we just replay the same story. Sinister and Apocalypse their sort are by no means bad villains, but they almost reak of TOO much forebodingness for their own good.

    Not that we should all expect it to be easy to tell great masterpiece stories with them, with so much continuity, though. In my opinion the core x-books are doing fine now.

  26. @flapjaxx  Ah, yes, I understand and sympathize with that approach.  I might recently have had a yelling argument that involved me saying "CHUCK AUSTEN’S CYCLOPS DOES NOT COUNT!!"  You really have to pick and choose canon to give credit to, if you want to stay sane.

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