Comic Books

NEW AVENGERS #3

Who is the true master of the mystic arts? Well, it ain’t Doctor Strange and it ain’t Doctor Voodoo. The bad news is he’s here and he is in charge. And he is gleefully ripping this dimension apart, piece by piece, in his search for relics of power. How are the legacies of Iron Fist, Doctor Strange and Wolverine connected? Find out here in this brand new eye-popper from Bendis and Immonen! Backup feature: Another brand new oral history of the Avengers chapter by Bendis!

WRITER: BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS
PENCILS: STUART IMMONEN
INKS: WADE VON GRAWBADGER
COLORED BY: LAURA JEAN MARTIN
LETTERED BY: NEUROTIC CARTOONIST, INC
COVER BY: STUART IMMONEN

Price: $3.99
iFanboy Community Pick of the Week Percentage: 7.7%

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  1. I love the art here, but not sure I’m up for hanging on long term.  I do love the magic in the Marvel U, so hopefully that will continue here since I don’t know where else to go to get that.

  2. My favorite Avengers book on the stands nowadays. All of my all time favorite characters, all of my favorite aspects of the previous Bendis run, and one of my favorite artists working nowadays. It’s a real slam dunk in terms of quality.

  3. @comicbookchris:  agreed, probably looking forward to this one more than Secret Avengers this week.

    I am ready for the "oral history" back-up to end, though.  If they’re going to charge $4 regardless, I’d still appreciate another fun back-up, something relevant and worth reading unlike that Nomad crap at the end of Captain America.

  4. Wow… This, Secret Avengers, Avengers Academy AND Thunderbolts all on the same day!? I hate when Marvel does this (by accident I know, but still!), especially in light of the small stacks I had the past two weeks. This happened all the time with X-Men last year, no X-books for two weeks then suddenly everyone of them but X-Factor all in the same week. It looks really irresponsible. 

  5. I do love the art, but so far the story hasn’t grabbed me as much as the Secret Avengers.

     

  6. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Wolverine and Spiderman don’t belong on the Avengers.  Wish Bendis would stop perpetuating Wolvie’s over-exposure in the Marvel U.  Guess I’m a purist in saying Wolverine is an XMan, which is where his heart is, and is where he can do what he does best, not on the Avengers where they have less edgy characters who are not killers like Wolvie is.  Spiderman is best as a solo character in my opinion and not on a team.  He just doesn’t matchup well with the kind of world-conquerer type of villains the Avengers face on a daily basis anyways.  It just seems forced to me to have these two on this team, my humble opinion.

  7. @fanktiger

    You’re not wrong. I’ve always liked Spider-man and Wolverine as a solo artists.

  8. @fanktiger:  I agree, although I do think that they add to the team dynamic and I don’t mind too much having Spiderman on the team.  I feel like he’s always wanted to fit in and be liked and being an Avenger would make him feel good about himself as a superhero.  I think that Wolverine needs to be scaled back a little bit.  He can’t be on every team.  Eventually the market will get over-saturated and people will get sick of the character (and I’m a huge Wolvie/X-Men fan).

  9. I think spidey and wolvie work well in the avenger. They add some levity and also an "in" for newer readers to some villains, as they dont always know who they are fighting.

    However I do agree they should not be in the avengers. There is such a wealth of brilliant characters, previous avengers and potential new characters, that could occupy their roles within the group. But as long as they remain the 2 most famous and popular characters in the MU I cant see them going anywhere.

  10. @colossusofrhodeisland

    I think Spider-man/Wolverine has a good team dynamic with each other (especially in Astonishing Spider-man and Wolverine)`and Bendis played up to that last issue.

  11. Here’s the thing, I love the way Bendis writes Spider-Man & Wolverine, but I agree I don’t want them on the avengers! Much less every team! If your going to have them as avengers, pick a team and stick with it! Having them both in fifteen million books is grating! I am not a continuity nerd but when the heck do they find the time?! Give me two diverse teams, and go!

  12. I never understood the argument that Wolverine and Spider-Man SHOULDN’T and CAN’T be Averngers. That is the type of  "let’s keep them in a box" mentality that Bendis was going against when he started writing the title. If you keep looking to the past and expect the Avengers to always be this classical style team that has rigid regulations on who can be on the team or what type of adventures they go on, what fun is that in the long term? The fact of the matter is that they are interesting characters, they are superheroes, and they bring a certain interesting dynamic to the team.

     

    Personally, I would like to hear less of fans murmuring about who shouldn’t be on the Avengers, and more of how creators can make interesting team dynamics with other characters.

  13. @comicbookchris: Here Here! I never understood the mentality that tried to limit who can and can’t be an Avenger. Bendis reinvigorated what was a failing franchise when he took over Avengers and he did it by saying "why can’t anyone be an Avenger?" 

  14. It makes sense to have them on an Avengers team. A large section of the reading public likes them and their dynamic together is pretty nice. It also makes sense to not put them in an  Avengers team book. The noble Avengers who always show up to save the day goes against a lot of what the Spider-man and Wolverine characters are about (nothing can ever go right for Spidey long term and Wolvie’s a killer). Their banter and presence often just hits the wrong tone. If only Marvel had TWO Avengers books, so they could satisfy both segments of their reading public. Hmmm.

  15. How does Wolverine and Spiderman add to the dynamic of that team?  Answer that…Powerman, Cap, Ms. Marvel, Thing, Hawkeye or Mockingbird, are any of them killers:  NO.  Fans who clamor for Wolverine to be on every Marvel U team just don’t understand the character or his history or what makes that guy click, and are the very fans Bendis targets to sell books when he adds characters to a team like its a popularity contest, ignoring the fact that for the most hardcore of fans, some of these characters just don’t fit.  Bendis also ignores the fact that having Wolverine on every Marvel U team dilutes the character and ruins the effect his appearance has on the story or to fans of continuity.

  16. NO! they need to get back to the heart of Wolverine! he’s a Hulk villain and he absolutely has to be working for the Canadian government.

    and while we’re at it, Spider-Man should be bugging the Fantastic Four to join them.  that’s what he always wanted anyway.  it’s right there in the first issue.

    …is my point clear? 

  17. @ABirdseyeview  Sorta. The concern is not a continuity one (although it is annoying to have characters physically incapable of doing all the things the different writers have them doing at the same time… but whatever). Feel free to ignore any large piece of Avengers or Spider-man or Wolverine history. 

    But the core characters are pretty damn well established, going back over decades and hundreds (if not thousands) of comics. Spider-man somehow always loses, even when he wins. Wolverine has a killer inside him that he is constantly struggling to contain. The Avengers are the ultimate heroes of the Marvel universe, celebrities and icons rolled into one. Those things don’t match well, especially when the contrasts are often blatantly ignored (I can imagine a good story where the Avengers deal with this dissonance). Can I ignore it and just have fun with characters? Hell, yes. But it is a bit more fundamental a problem than simple continuity. 

  18. @JimBilly4  thank you, it is a fundamental problem when you ignore the history of these characters and just throw them in on a team where they don’t fit simply because they’re the most popular characters and they would somehow ‘add to the dynamic’ of those teams.  I think they ruin the dynamic of those teams actually, because, as you so eloquently pointed out, they ‘don’t match well.’  The Avergers have always been the frontrunners of the Marvel U, the XMen the darkhorses, and Spiderman the underdog, they just don’t fit fundamentally.  But if Marvel is trying to sell more books by adding them in, becaue they want to appeal to the general, unthinking masses of the average fan, well it has the opposite affect on me, even though…hehheh…I’m gonna check this book out to see what happens:)

  19. As a longtime Spider-Man fan I love Peter being on the Avengers. It makes perfect sense that he would join based on what Cap said to him during the very first arc of NA way back when.

    Spidey: I don’t know about joining a team. I’ve always been a solo guy.

    Cap: How’s that working out for you?

    Spidey: …..

    God forbid the characters we love grow as people. After years of being crapped on by lifeit makes perfect sense that he would join a team where he’s well liked and can lend a hand on the science front as well as the fighting front. At the end of the day Peter isjust trying to do the responsible thing. What’s more responsible thansaying yes when Steve Rogers asks you to help save the world?

     

  20. Spider-Man and Wolverine on the Avengers is one of the best things ever to happen to the Avengers books.

    You’re all crazy.

  21. @Conor  YES! This is correct, everyone else in this room has lost it.

    Now that that’s settled, what’s next Mrs. Landingham?

  22. @RoiVampire- you’ve got it exactly right.

    who’s to say that the characters can’t decide to something drastically different?  have you never made a decision in your own life that might seem different from everything else you’ve done?  if you and I can make those kind of decisions because we want to see what happens, why can’t Spider-Man and Wolverine.

    furthermore, Spider-Man and Wolverine have been Avengers for over five years now.  sorry, but that means it’s an established part of the continuity.  so at this point, they aren’t acting out of character at all.

  23. But on every team? Why can’t adjectiveless avengers have one team, and new avengers have their own different team? That’s what I want.

  24. @RahUniQue: As awesome as it would be if they were, they’re not on every team. Just two.

  25. "on the team". this phrase gets thrown around quite a bit.  both Avengers books in question have only covered less than a day’s time.  these characters are in the story, but is that necessarily the same as "on the team".  Luke Cage invited Spidey and Wolverine over with all the others and then they’re just sitting there drinking tea and bam! new sorcerer supreme shows up. neither character said, "okay, I’ve just decided that I am officially on the team."  these are just stories.  and the writer of these stories wanted to include these characters in this story.  who knows what the next arcs will bring.  maybe both characters will decide that both teams are too much for them.  that kind of thing has happened before.  just enjoy the damn books.

  26. @Conor : that’s too much! Lol

  27. For me I don’t think it is a matter of continuitity, although that is annoying, or whether or not the characters "fit". There is a very real disconnect between what we read as a whole Marvel universe and the plethora of books Wolverine and spider-man are in.

    How can you have Wolverine in San Francisco, New York and whereever he might be with X-Force? Not to mention his solo book(s). If the stories are good then I can generally forgive what is happening, but it has the power to take you out of the stories when you read 2 or 3 books in just a week with the same characters talking a staring role in all of them.

    I would hope it is only sales that dictates it, but does wolverine really need to be on 2 avengers teams, is it 3 x-men books? and his own title? As said above, I think it dilutes the power of the character to make an impact in any given story.

  28. @har13quin: At a certain point, in order to enjoy these things, you have to let those kind of worries go.

  29. Why is it when Superman and Batman are on 3 different teams with 4 books of their own I never here these complaints? As for the Continuity angle most of the 5 or 6 issue story arcs take place over a day or two So you can very easily have these people be on different teams on different coasts. Hell time is never accurately represented in comics if they were Spidey would be in his late 60’s….let it go.  Just because you read every title doesn’t mean everyone else does so the over saturation angle is lost on people who read one X-title and one Avengers title.   Why is having a team book with the most popular characters a bad thing? Isn’t that how all team books started? JSA, JLA, and early Avengers all started with the universes top characters put into one book.

  30. @BirdseysView@conor  Spiderman and Wolverine on the Avengers is the worst thing that has happened to the Avengers book. 

    Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy comics as far as my $3.99 goes, but sometimes you feel like you’re not getting your money’s worth, and because comic books cost money, sometimes there’s potential to be disappointed or dissatisfied.  You guys make it sound like we’re just disgruntled, discontented haters who can’t see anything good in the books, they’re just there for us to enjoy right?  Well to enjoy these things sometimes you wish they could be better, which means what we get out of the books is the opportunity to form opinions, not to just blindly and thoughtlessly enjoy; this just an old-school point of view.  When books are on point to the tee, it’s a joy and pleasure, a gratification that has us coming back for more; but as opinions go, comic books allow for a lot.

  31. @DamonS23: Well not the Avengers — it’s not like Wasp and Ant-Man were the top characters at Marvel at the time — but your other points are good ones.

  32. Its a shame though, that to enjoy the modern comic book story you have to ” let those kind of worries go” part of the joy – for me – as a lil’ kiddo reading comics was seeing how it all fit. Reading Spider-man and seeing Thor zoom someplace and the little post script telling you ” if you want to know where Thor is racing off to read this issue of Thor. ” With the dawn of the trade and stories being written to fit in a six issue arc we’ve lost that. And been told let it go. Just enjoy this for what it is. I want to do both. But sadly, have to do only one.

  33. Everyone who has a beef with Wolverine and Spider-Man being on the team are complaining for the exact reasons why they work so well. The dynamic works because they bring a different flavor to the team, and to say otherwise is extreme nitpicking. So quit bitching.

  34. @Franktiger: I’m not sure I understand your point.

    No one is advocating you blindly and thoughtlessly enjoy the books. I would imagine that since you’re here you are familiar with iFanboy and how we approach comics and then you’d know that’s a silly statement to make.

    Are we not allowed to disagree and then discuss the disagreement on this comic book discussion website? 

  35. @RahUnique: The idea that continuity ever matched up is a fallacy. That’s why Marvel invented the No-Prize. And that was back when one guy was writing all the books.

  36. Don’t like Superman and Batman appearing on every DCU title either, it’s oversaturation, but that’s a good point, not everyone reads every title, but that’s because they realize the same characters are on every title!

    That’s the rationale that goes on in my head as well, when I see Wolverine on the XMen, and then on the Avengers the next book, I think to myself this must’ve happened before or after what just happened in the other book and he like took a plane and went over to the next team.  Pththth.  I think my point is what does Wolverine care what happens with the Avengers?  He’s always had a contentious relationship with most of them anyways, they objecting to his killing ways, and he’s so invested in what’s happening with the XMen, it just doesn’t seem feasible to me he could have his heart in so many different places, he’s like some sort of superhero mercenary.  I think I’m more ok with Spiderman being an Avenger, but come on, he should’ve easily been killed against those horsemen of Apocalypse in that other Avengers series, I dropped that book fast.

  37. @conor   you pretentiously say "you have to let those kind of worries go" "in order to enjoy these things."  Sounds absolutely like advocating of thoughtlessness to me.  That is my point, that we are allowed to disagree and discuss, so you got my point without even knowing it.

  38. @Franktiger: And there was no pretentiousness involved. That’s genuine advice. And it’s got nothing to do with thoughtless reading. It’s got to do with dealing with the reality of Marvel and DC comics as they have been for decades.

    We’re all being civil here. If you feel the need to invoke insults then we’re going to have a problem.

     

  39. Here’s the thing: with the comics medium, the writer or reader doesn’t have to worry about such restrictions. We can have many stories going on with popular characters, as long as no major continuity errors occur. Its actually a great strength of this medium.

  40. @comicBookchris  I don’t get your logic, why is it that when something doesn’t fit, it makes it work?  When you introduce a different flavor to something that already tastes good, it ruins it sometimes, like putting soy sauce on chocolate ice-cream or something.  I guess for you, Wolverine on the Avengers is like soy sauce with sushi, but that’s not nitpicking or bitching, it’s having a certain point of view.

    @conor  sounds like you’re invoking insults when you called my statement silly, but we’re just discussing opinions here right?  Saying you HAVE to do something in order to enjoy it doesn’t sound like advice, but I see what you’re saying.  Look, there’s obviously two contingents of fans here, one that likes Spidey and Wolvie as Avengers, and another that thinks it’s superfluous and oversaturation of the Marvel U, I think we can agree on that.  I think both points of view are fine and valid.

  41. @Franktger: You’re walking a very fine line here.

  42. You’re saying this like the Avengers tasted good before Bendis came on. They didn’t. In fact, it was quite the opposite of tasty. This fact is not even an opinion, the book was NO WHERE as big in terms of quality or popularity before Bendis came on. One of the big reasons that the book ranged from mediocre to bad for awhile before Bendis came on was because the book languished in that “Let’s keep them in a box” mentality that you’re asserting should be the norm.

  43. Best ongoing Avengers book on the shelves. The team rocks and Immonen is killing it on the art. 

  44. I’m not a fan of Wolverine and Spider-Man on the team, but it’s a matter of personal taste. I don’t like Wolverine save a few storylines, so his egregious appearances do tend to stick out to me. As well, the guy’s a friggin’ killer and he’s in there curling Spider-Woman’s hair with his blood stained claws! As for Spidey… well, Marvel real soured me on the character with the cock ups of OMD and BND. So as long as they’re not slapping me in the face with his new status quo, I’m fine with him on the team. Personally, I much prefer a team of rag-tag heroes as the Avengers. That’s what the Avengers appealing, they weren’t just a JLA clone. (To be fair, I much prefer a JLA sans-Batman and Superman, so perhaps I just don’t groove to the power players.) 

    But I’m more confused by the "Just let it pass" attitude to the nature of characters appearing all over the place. Sure, it’s not hard to reconcile somethings as happening concurrently or a story being set before or after another that are published together. But at a certain point, shouldn’t more thought be put into the overall stream of books than there is? You get the sense that unless the writers are friends no one has any idea what’s going on. "What do you mean Wolverine’s been exiled to Madripoor for a month? He needs to fight the Wrecking Crew so I can make a witty joke about beer!" Essentially, we’re plunking down a lot of cash to fuel these companies, shouldn’t we expect more care and attention to the books than just being told "ignore it and you’ll enjoy it more?"

  45. Bendis has done a good job with the book, and has turned it around such that the Avengers books are the most popular in the Marvel U, but I don’t think that’s hinged on the fact that Wolverine and Spiderman were added to the roster, do you?  I’m not asserting anything, or that they should be limited in their scope of team members, I just don’t like Spiderman and Wolverine particularly as Avengers is all.  I guess it stems from a bias of growing up on Wolverine as an XMan, even though I know he’s been an Avenger before, I just see it as a sell out in a way.

  46. @PraxJarvin: Not really. It’s not really realistic to expect it all to match up. Not with dozens of titles being written by human beings telling stories piecemeal month over month where one issue takes place over the course of an hour and another takes place over the course of a week. It’s just not possible. It’s never been possible.

  47. I love spidey solo, but I like the way bendis uses spidey in team books, perfect foil for his bendisy quips

  48. @conor Oh, this I know. I’m not asking for perfection. I’m asking for things like Daredevil not showing up in books for throwaway scenes when he was supposed to have been in jail for several months, or such (Later explained away as his being Danny Rand. 😉 ). Again, I’m just asking for "We’ll strive to do our best" where as we’re getting "Too bad, deal with it."

  49. @PraxJarvin: I don’t think it’s "too bad, deal with it" it’s "this is the reality as it has been for over 40 years; this is comics."

  50. I think it’s interesting that people seem to fall into "Spiderman and Wolverine should be on the Avengers" and "Spiderman and Wolverine shouldn’t be on the Avengers" camps.  It think we should be looking at them as separate situations.  I like Spiderman as an Avenger.  I think that, given his personality and the way he interacts with other heroes, that is something he would do.  I just don’t feel that Wolverine’s as good a fit, and I’ll be the first to admit that I’m worried I’ll get sick of one of my favorite characters being all over the Marvel U.  I was really excited when Brubaker started his run on Uncanny and didn’t include Wolverine, because I felt like having him off the flagship book was a fairly courageous move.

  51. Once again not everyone is reading everything and the Publishers not catering to those that do is a smart business move I you don’t want to discourage the casual fan from reading because of continuity overload.  If I like Aquaman and only want to read Aquaman I shouldn’t have to know what is going on in Batman to understand a Aquaman story(Unless there is a crossover).

     

    @Conor Hulk, Iron Man and Thor were pretty big books when the Avengers were created. Though you are right not as many big guns as JLA and JSA.

  52. This thread is making me hate continuity.

  53. Wow. How exhausting.

  54. Whenever an argument about continuity comes up I just say" Wait six months then try to sort it out. It usually works out fine.

  55. Wolverine does have ties to all the Avengers characters!  have you not been reading the books the last five years?  the ties have been made stronger and stronger each issue.  same goes with Spider-Man.  every other Avenger on both teams either had a relationship with both Wolverine and Spider-Man beforehand or has developed one since.  the stories of how they each fit into the dynamic of the Avengers has been told.  if you’ve been reading Bendis’ Avengers then you should see how they fit.

  56. I just hate it when Bendis has Wolverine able to smell lies. It makes me think he’s only there because he can’t have Daredevil.

    Oh yes, and from what I’ve seen you have to completely seperate Avengers Wolverine from X-Men Wolverine. They act nothing alike.  I’m gonna blame Time travel duplicates since I know he’s been jumping around in time in the X-men universe.

    (I’m not trying to fan the flames I swear.)

  57. certain situations require you to act differently.  when with the X-Men, I’d say Wolverine is faced with entirely different situations than he is when with the X-Men.

  58. @Minion Wolverine has always been able to smell lies. Oh yeah and don’t forget X-force Wolverine and Agents of Atlas Wolverine.

  59. First, this thread has entertained me to no end this evening.

    Second, the way Bendis writes Spider-Man is worth the price of admission.

    Third, When I first started reading comics around 1990 everybody but the Punisher and Ghostrider were considered Avengers, though the latter was in "The New Fantastic Four" with Wolverine, Spider-Man, and Hulk. Talk about exploiting the most popular characters of the time! But I digress. In the 80s and 90s most of the Marvel characters were Avengers, if only in the "reserve" capacity. I think Beast set the precedent when he went from the X-Men to the Avengers, then bounced back and forth as the X-Men and Avengers stories demanded. Heck, the very first issue of the Avengers was basically a "Let’s get most of our popular characters on one team" concept. The fact that Wolverine kills sometimes is a character trait, but it’s not the character trait that defines him. He kills when the writer of a given story wants him to and, so far, Bendis hasn’t really hit that note too much (if at all, I don’t recall).

    Fourth, colossuofrhodeisland, your avatar is bully! Dee-lighted! 

  60. Oh, so that’s what it is, Wolverine doppelg

  61. let’s all be honest with ourselves.  the original Avenges lineup was not about getting the most popular characters together.  it was about getting the ONLY characters together.  name a solo superhero being published at the time that was not on the Avengers. …exactly

    ok, so I’ll pre-empt the Spider-Man answer.  no, Spider-Man was not on the team because AT THE TIME, he did not fit the mold.  not one bit.  but since that time, Spidey’s developed a relationship with many if not all of the Avengers past, present, and future.  so, come New Avengers #1, he belonged on the team.  it’s all in the story.

  62. @Franktiger- it’s hard to convey emotion online.  I’m not sure if you are actually claiming that there is a continuity issue here.  I’ll tell you right now, there is not.  there is no continuity errors involved with Wolverine and Spider-Man being in all these books.

  63. Wow, weird to see the conversation go over this territory.

    First, I think blaming Bendis for Wolverine (and Spidey’s) overexposure is silly. Those characters have been in twenty books a month for twenty years.

    That said, yeah, putting them in a team book DOES kinda compromise the characters. Characters can change–those two characters, for example, could join the Avengers–but that change doesn’t seem to reverberate throughout their other appearances. Bendis has written nearly a hundred "Avengers" comics with Wolvie and Spidey in them, yet as of the new "Avengers #1" they were STILL debating why they should be on the time. Like so much of Bendis’s Avengers decisions, it STILL feels like a forced mandate rather than well-grounded progression.

    On the one hand, I have no problem with the Avengers titles. Marvel is going to do whatever sells. Putting Bendis on these titles with this line-up is going to sell.

    So I don’t blame Marvel, or Bendis. I blame SO many fans for supporting it. These aren’t bad comics, but they’re nowhere near good enough to justify the sales they’ve gotten. Avengers today is mid-’90s X-titles redux. Every issue (at least they ones that I’ve read) seems like a rehash. Every issue seems formulaic and I definitely don’t sense the creativity that Bendis was once capable of. The dialogue seems like it’s on autopilot.

    It seems like Bendis just makes this stuff up on the spot and doesn’t even read it back to himself to see if it makes sense. Every scene is fluffed up with annoying, tedious "witty" banter.

    That’s not true!

    Yes. Yes, it is.

    No. No, it’s not.

    We’re doing it now.

    No we’re not.

    We are. This is what every Bendis Avengers scene sounds like.

    I–We–Okay. Okay stop.

    I’m stopping. This is me stopping.

    Then stop.

    I’ve stopped.

    Can I speak?

    This is me letting you speak.

    We’re only talking this way because you made us talk this way.

    I lost track of who is who.

    Can we start over?

    Start over on what?

    On being Avengers.

    "On being Avengers." We ARE Avengers. This is what Avengers do.

    This is not what Avengers do.

    This is what Brian Michael Bendis’s Avengers do. And it sells, because people don’t get sick of it, even after reading 22 pages of it twice a month for almost ten years.

  64. @froggulper: That’s because the books have been great, among the best super hero comics out there, since 2005.

  65. @franktiger, i agree with @conor to me you do “have” to agree to take comic continuity with a grain of salt, it’s just the nature of the beast, sort of like you “have” to agree with a (usually) monthly episodic publishing format, or “have” to accept the three act structure in films, it’s a trapping of the genre of a shared universe. It is impossible to expect a company that publishes as much as the big two do to expect seamless continuity. That would be like asking that all prime time tv fit seamlessly together, there are just too many cooks in the kitchen to allow for flawless continuity

  66. froggulper, that was kinda awesome . . .

    Dialogue should be on autopilot. That is how most dialogue is and I tend to like my dialogue to be realistic.

    Maybe not in super hero comics, but I think Bendis makes some of the best super hero comics among Marvel/DC.

  67. There’s a lot of subjective opinion being bandied about as fact going on here. I expect better from you lot!

    @froggulper That’s some hysterically accurate Bendis dialogue.

  68. the thing is, if you just try to match up the continuity, it actually matches up quite well.  you have to use your imagination and a reader can really find something beneficial when looking for things to match up.  that’s assuming you really do care about that sort of thing.  I myself am quite entertained by it and often look for where things match up.  I try to sort it all out in my head, and I’m usually rewarded.  there are many ways to look at these things and be entertained.

    then again some people would rather complain that this isn’t the 70’s or 80’s.  takes all kinds to make the world go around. 

  69. I agree with all this being a forced mandate, because Bendis seems to me to be a market driven kind of writer. As far as I’ve seen, in my opinion Wolverine has added nada to the dynamic of the book other than being awkwardly out-of-place, and as for the argument that yea, this has been going on with the Avengers throughout the book’s history, then this is nothing original and goes against the notion that Bendis ‘went outside the box’ by doing something different in order to have saved the book in the first place.
    @BirdseysView no issue, haven’t you heard? My Wolverine doppelgangers are in place throughout our entire Marvel U! Jk (gotta add that in just in case)

  70. "You have to make your own continuity" – Conor Kilpatrick, 2007

  71. @Conor I can’t believe you just quoted yourself. :-p You’re right though. That’s part of why comics are the great "do-it-yourself medium" (Marshall McLuhan, Understanding Media).

  72. Conor is fucking you up with his own iFanboy continuity from the vaults.

     2007 bitches!

    Bow down.

  73. Conor, you’re acting out of character.  you don’t fit on a New Avengers thread because you’ve always been a DC guy.

  74. That was some mighty fine troll slaying, Conor.

  75. @comicBOOKchris- Conor is to linking himself in a vodcast as Thor is to Mjolnir.  that’s what you are saying, yes?

  76. @ABirdsEyeView I am neither referring to those nasty frost giants nor you, good sir.

  77. Oh wow, smitten by a self-quote taken from a message board continuity, how ironic. But like I said before, I understand continuity can’t be perfect, but that wasn’t even my issue in the first place, all I said was that some fans don’t like Wolvie in all the books because it might mess up continuity in the minds of some, but that doesn’t mean I’m not buying or enjoying the books, believe me, I’ve got my own system of reconciling continuity in my own head so that it all makes sense to me. I maintain, Spidey and Wolvie suk as Avengers, sorry, but I’m still gonna check it out!

  78. So you are arguing just to make me hate continuity . . .

  79. don’t hate continuity.  continuity is great!

    @Franktiger- I think the problem is you’re making a statement that is very tired, a statement that has been made over and over again for the last five years.  it’s plainly obvious that many of us see your statement as being false if only on the merit of the stories of these last five years.  

  80. Keep arguing! We might break 100 comments!

  81. Okay, I’ll hate comic fans instead.

  82. lol

  83. @ Minion – No we won’t. (84)

  84. oh how am I supposed to ignore that? (85)

  85. @ABridseysView  what are you talking about?  That Wolverine being in 5 books at the same time messes up continuity is a false and tired statement?  You don’t sound too tired after commenting how many times on this issue.  Again, yes there needs to be some suspension of disbelief as far as continuity is concerned, but to say the statement is false makes you lose credibility in the argument, because clearly, many fans think it is a valid argument…but again I DON’T CARE, I HAVE MY DOPPELGANGERS, I just think Spidey and Wolverine are sellouts for being on the Avengers. 

     I think Marvel writers do care and are cognizant of continuity, I think Quesada does care about it, but like someone said earlier, some writiers just want certain characters in their stories regardless of continuity or because that’s what they think the fans want to see to sell books; but some are just saying they shouldn’t be so reckless about it, because some fans do care about that kind of thing.

  86. actually, Franktiger brought up an interesting point.  hasn’t it been established that the "not killer" thing just doesn’t apply to Hawkeye and Mockingbird.  what about Ms. Marvel?  hasn’t she killed someone at some point? am I just confusing here with Wonder Woman? (86, yes this is a thing now)

  87. @Franktiger- well I was referring to your original statement that Wolverine and Spider-Man do not belong on the Avengers.

  88. Wait, I thought these were fictional characters.

  89. Looks like from your post at 10:11 that you do care about continuity, or you arrange it and match it up in your own head because its rewarding and more entertaining like that, and I agree, that’s what I do as well.

    It’s like the Lebron argument, some basketball fans would’ve liked it better if he stayed in Cleveland, some people understand his decision, just not the way he went about it.  Those who wanted him to stay like the idea of him being in his own gang…Kobe has his own gang, Carmelo has his, Tim Duncan and Kevin Durant the same thing, but that matter wasn’t up to us, it was his own decision based on what was best for him, but if you’re going to do something controversial, do it with class and in a way that hurts the least amount of people, and that’s what this continuity argument is like, sometimes the way they spread Wolverine all over the Marvel U puts off some people who so dearly love the badass of a character he is, but he shouldn’t be on Power Pack so that he can be popping balloons with his claws, it makes him less badass!

  90. 90 comments?! Did I read that right? Holy cow.

    For the record, I thumb through most of the Avengers books in-shop and this is the only one I’d care to own the trade for. Immonem rules and I finding this storyline more interesting then Bendis’ other Avengers book. 

  91. I don’t know about popping balloons with Power Pack, but I do know that we’ve had years of stories proving why Wolverine belongs on the Avengers and I think many people here would agree with me.  it’s only oversaturation if it brings down the character and story.

  92. Oh, sorry, but my Lebron analogy still applies, some think its funner if Wolive was in his own gang, but hey, my personal rationale for why Wolverine is on the Avengers is if they really needed to kill someone, they would have him to get the job done.

  93. not only is that your personal rationale, it was Tony Stark’s too.

  94. Since everyone is throwing their 2cents, how about I do so as well! (93)

    To me, it does bug me a little bit on Wolverine being on the team. But that’s just because:

    A) He’s on every single fucking book now a days. (or at least it feels like it)

    B) There is no justification for him being on either Avengers teams other then for sales.

    I love that story by Jason Aaron where he tries to explain just how Logan can go from team to team. But even in that story he seemed to give up towards the end cause there was just way to much for him to put in.

    For Spider-Man, I never mind him joining the teams. Spider-Man should have always been an Avenger and Bendis does a pretty good job mixing it up with the character. My only problem is for most Avengers teams, Bendis seem to have done really nothing to justify either teams to exist. Or at least explain why each person was chosen for each team. Why did Wolverine and Spidey decide to join THE and New? Who gave in the good word for Spider-Woman? Do we really need to have Jessica Jones be back in costume? These are the things, that I feel, are very important to making a team. I mean if you read the old comics you see them going through a wealth of pages explaining why each person joined what.

    If you want to ignore continuity and just have fun, then so be it. I can’t say I’m plagued by continuity all that much. I try to enjoy my comics equally without worrying the specifics of each comic. But you know what guys? Marvel, DC, and others have editors for a reason. They hire people specifically hire people to keep track as to what is going on in the universe they decided to plan out. It doesn’t help that it’s plain obvious no one at either company wants to talk to each other about continuity. 

  95. I’m surprised that no one has brought up the fact that the arcs that are taking up 6 issues used to take up a whole 1 issue back in the day. So each character has six times more time than they used to.

  96. @TheNextChampion- in this book, Wolverine and Spidey haven’t decided anything.  Luke Cage invited them.  in this story that is taking place, they just happen to be there.  there is plenty of in-story justification as far as I can tell.

  97. @TNC well said:)

  98. @TNC: Continuity not an editor’s main job. They are not hired specifically to keep track of it. They are hired specifically to edit their books and handle the talent.

  99. I mean think about it. Avengers has only taken what three days so far? New Avengers has taken one morning. He’s not that busy.

  100. …and all of that happens before Second Coming so what he’s up to in X-Men is way far ahead.

  101. @ABirdseysView Congrats on getting Comment 100

  102. @conor I did not know that.

  103. oh hell yeah

  104. yay!?  can I take credit for starting this discussion thread?  No?  damn…

  105. @conor: Oh there has to be someone (or at least from before) keeping track of all of this. I mean Marvel seemed to do it seamlessly in the past when every issue had a reference to another series.

  106. I was genuinely surprised when I saw Spiderman had more monthly books out then Wolverine.

    Isn’t the whole over-saturation debate a matter of personal taste anyway?  

  107. @TNC: There is no one specifically tasked with keeping track of continuity.Everyone tries to coordinate to the best of their abilities to make sure these stories seem like they’re in the same universe, but as we’ve said before, these are stories told by human beings not robots. These are stories that take place in monthly pieces with each piece lasting a different amount of time (i.e. the current NEW AVENGERS arc is, so far, taking place over the course of one day). It won’t ever match up, but despite appearances, they do their best to make it match up as best they can without completely stifling the stories.

    And continuity was never seamless. This has been discussed way up in the comments.

  108. @conor: Well it seems like they don’t seem to care about trying a little to make it all work. Cause there are times, I swear; where Bendis, Fraction, and a few others just do whatever they feel like without considering what is going on.

    It’s why Avengers Prime is confusing a lot of people, cause it doesn’t match up at all with what Bendis is doing in THE team.  

  109. @TNC: Why is AVENGERS: PRIME confusing?

  110. @conor: Because it contradicts some things about what’s happening in Thor right now and Bendis even admits he has to clear things up before the final issue.

  111. @TNC: I’m not reading THOR so there are no contradictions in my continuity.

    If Bendis doesn’t clear things up before the series ends then people can complain, but he’s not nearly finished yet and he has plenty of time to try to make it work.

  112. The reason continuity in comics seemed so flawless years ago was probably because you weren’t reading as many books the less you read the more flawless it becomes.

  113. wow. can we agree to disagree? i don’t think any clear resolution will be had. i think the final answer is do and feel what makes you happy? the continuity issue doesn’t bother me so much as my need to have two distinct teams. with or without Logan & Spidey. also i would like more concise story telling. 3 to 4 issues to to cover one morning?! come on! get to the point!

  114. I love comics!

  115. @conor and TNC i am reading Thor, and there is a discrepancy, yet bendis has stated that it will be explained, the "confusion is because prime happened before the current stuff, so that isn’t really a continuity problem, just a pacing thing (was going to say issue but i don’t consider it an issue)

  116. I’m so sick of this thread. It’s saturated with FrankTiger, Conor, Abirdseyeview and all these other posters I can’t stand.  Since when did TNC get added??? That makes no sense, ifanboy probably just put him in to get the comments up past 200, and I think everyone here knows that graphicly pays ifanboy 1million dollars for every one hundred comments a singles issue’s thread receives.  I remember when iFanboy wasn’t about the money and people commented on threads just for fun.

    Id try to read the secret avengers thread, but TNC and Conor are all over that thing too…must be some sort of doppelgangers! Ridiculous! 

    Looks like its Ex Machina 50 thread for me

  117. Brilliant.

    Thread over.

  118. @ludusmaximus Ummm… Its all in good fun. Conversations like this come up all the time when you are into comics and they are fun. Don’t take them too seriously.

  119. God, i’ve missed THIS

  120. @Edward Are you fucking kidding me!?! lol. YES!!!

  121. As great as this thread has been for introducing the iFanboy community to 2 of the new biggest trolls, I’d like to start talking about the book again.

    Like I mentioned before, NA is probably my favorite Avengers book on the stands. While the previous volume certainly wasn’t perfect, it’s strong points were certainly enjoyable. I like this series because it’s seeming to trim the fat of the previous NA book and not only focuses on the strengths, but also features work by the best artist from the previous book (given the roll call of artists, that’s saying a lot.) Also, this book has Luke Cage and Iron Fist…can’t get much better than that!

  122. Alright, considering its only tuesday and this is still going (which is brilliant by the way) I’m just gonna say that from my perspective it is an on going struggle to reconsile my reading of the Marvel Universe, which is fairly extensive, with the volume of appearances some characters make there.

    I know that continuity is not an exact science and getting hung up about it is entirely down to me and my attitude to comics. However I do feel that, over and above my partially resolved issues with multiple appearances of wolverine and spider-man, from a writing pov it seems a little lazy to me. I know wolverine and spider-man are great characters, but there are a lot of great character in the marvel pantheon. I would rather see wolverine appear in say, new avengers and x-men/x-force where I think his character is best served, and use some of the great unused characters that populate the MU futher. The same goes for Spider-man. I think that the source reason for these over usages, i see them, is sales and not a creative impetus, which for me is, despite the realities of business, creatively weak.

    So, in a nutshell more interesting, different characters in more high profile books.

  123. Wow. Something like 133 comments in less than twelve hours. You people really care. 😀

  124. Another argument against Wolverine being on the Avengers is where’s his sense of team loyalty?  As far as I know him, Logan is a loyal man, whatever he does he puts his heart and soul into.  If anyone has ever been on a sports team or even with just a circle of friends that you form a bond or camaraderie with, you don’t just go switching teams on a whim for no good apparent reason.  One, that could offend people on your previous team, two, it shows a lack of loyalty and commitment, devotion, dedication, what have you.  That’s why there’s been so much outrage over Lebron moving to Miami, he looks like a punk, even though it was probably the best move for him personally, he still came off as a disloyal SOB, and as far as I can tell, Wolverine has no personal vested interest in being on the Avengers.  Even if he’s there so that he can kill people if need be, he would never agree to that as a reason to join the team.  Wolverine is fundamentally a moral person with the capacity to kill, he would never agree to join a team to be the designated killer, he would never glorify or take pride in being a killer like that.

  125. I enjoy Bendis’s Avengers, I really do. I just wish he didn’t get two Avengers books. I wish someone else(coff Dan Slott cough) could have gotten one. Anyway, I have been enjoying this though and the art is awesome.

  126. I think ludusmaximus was going for satire.

    Conor = Wolverine

    TNC= Spider-Man

    Birdseyeview = Hawkeye

    Franktiger = Victoria Hand

  127. Holy F, I leave for the night and this thread goes nuts

  128. Having Spidey and Wolvie on these teams allows them to use more obscure characters like Iron Fist and Brother Voodoo.  The average person (not the average comic reader) knows who Spider-man and Wolverine are.  This is a way to grow readership and introduce new people to the OTHER Avengers cuz believe it or not to the outside world most of the Avengers are just a names with no faces attached.

  129. Well, I tried to get this thread back on track, but this guy is like some freakish super troll, the likes of which I’ve never seen before.

  130. I going to assume a message board troll is a compliment of sorts?  Because otherwise, conor wouldn’t like it if you were invoking insults;)

  131. I’m gonna go ahead and say no, that it is not a compliment.

  132. yeah, I think we have all said enough about the relative merits of character over exposure, or lack there of. Despite my complaints the avengers line (minus secret avengers) is one of my most consistently entertaining pulls. I hope immonen stays on for good long while, he is wicked.

  133. So…that Immonen guy sure can draw.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Fuck continuity! 

  134. Why are some people are so obsessed with making everything fit? The beauty of a fictional reality to me is that is does’t have to play by any rules except create a satisfying read. In my angrier moments i have to wonder if people who obsess over such things lead such empty, unsatsified lives that that have to make their fiction seem as real as possible so they can replace their reality with it. Whenever something comes along to shatter that delusion and remind them of their true reality, they freak out rather than just take a cold hard look at their lives. Its lke the religious fanatics that still say the world is 5000 years old, and if it isn’t then Jesus doesnt love them and their misery isn’t some divine plan to mkae them better than all those people who actually participate in that book learnin’.

    back on topic, this book is awesome, Immonen keeps getting better and WOLVERINE RULES!

  135. Who’s the troll now?  Me?  Oh.

    Let’s not make it anything more than it is but a discussion about comic books that we all love and enjoy, otherwise we wouldn’t be discussing them on a message board that wouldn’t even exist in the first the place if it were otherwise.  This isn’t some profound existenstial question that reflects the very lives of those who ask it, it’s do you like Wolverine and Spiderman as Avengers or not.  That’s it.

  136. @Damon, your point about those characters allowing more obscure character to appear and matter is a great one that I hadn’t thought of.  Thanks for that.

    @drakedangerz, that’s the funniest thing I’ve read all day 

    @Andrew-Thanks, I have to compliment your avatar too ("Marriage is a fine institution, but then, who wants to live in an institution.")

  137. "I can’t understand how the guys fighting demons with super powers and unbreakable claws and magic are able to pull off their time management budget. It just takes away from the realism for me."

  138. Am I the only one who misses Iron Fists big collar? And bare chest with the dragon? Im fine without the booties, but i miss the collar.

  139. Nah, I think the collar and bare chest are best consigned to history.

  140. @Abstractgeek There was a guy in my high school who wore this yellow button up shirt with this huge 70s looking collar probably three times a month. We called him Iron Fist for years.

  141. Wow, 140 comments!? Way to go guys!

  142. the new costume makes him look more like the adventure hero that Fraction and Brubaker were looking for.  I think it’s far superior.

    and that’s not trolling. oh, and @ScorpionMasada- thanks, at least I’m the one that gets the hottest chicks!

  143. man, just remebering that fraction/brubaker run on iron fist. Sweirczynski was good but those first 2 arcs were phenomenal. One of my fave comic runs of the last 10 years maybe? I loved orson randall and the whole pulpy noirish mythos they developed in what was quite a short time. Would love to see an orson randall mini series.

  144. 144 comments? You’d think that this was Final Crisis #7 or something.

    I will say this: I can see why so many people like it, but…

    I hate Bendis’s 616 Spider-Man.

    The innane dialogue is beyond annoying.

    IT’S LIKE HAVING JAR-JAR BINKS IN EVERY SCENE.

    I’ve tried like ten times to get into Bendis’s Avengers. Everytime, the chatty banter repulses me. My latest attempt was Avengers #3. I stuck with it until Bendis had Hawkeye quip "You mean like go to the movies?" after someone said the Avengers should "Go somewhere". It seems like half the dialogue exchanges are full of nonsense crap that I guess is supposed to be amusing, but it reads like automatic writing or something. Zero craft, attention to detail or characterization. Everyone talks like dingy hipsters from late ’90s sitcoms. Bendis’s Wolverine might as well be Joey from "Friends", except Bendis throws in a few "damn"s into Wolvie’s dialogue, as if that’s all the uniqueness required..

  145. I am tickled by the notion that a fictional character being on multiple teams that have a long history of teaming up together to accomplish the same goal is the same scenario as a cornerstone NBA player leaving one team to be paid to play against them for the same goal. Makes me me laugh as I type.

  146. Welcome. Hawkeye is cool.

    I thought my Victoria Hand joke was brilliant: FrankTiger = Victoria Hand cuz no one wants him around.

    A lot better then calling some dude a troll.

    And he ain’t a troll he is just argumentative and myopic.

  147. froggulper=Luke Cage

    Tellin’ it like it is.

  148. Edward = Captain America

    Back from the dead.

  149. I’m sure we haven’t come close to any kind of # of comments record, but what’s the record for number of deletions in one thread? are we coming close to that at least?

  150. ScorpionMasada = Sharon Carter, cus he’s brainwashed and weak-minded, killing the greatest representative of an ideal, which is something that’s clearly over his head, so he doesn’t know how to deal with it except to say like some sort of highschool elitist they don’t want around what they don’t understand.

    Was I the only one that expressed his dislike of Wolverine or Spiderman on the Avengers?  Did I not admit that yes, there does need to be a degree of suspension of disbelief as far as continuity goes in order to better enjoy the books?  I don’t know where your getting myopic, you lose credibility with that, but this is a discussion board, your allowed to argue points of view, hence the like 150 posts on this thread?  

  151. and now one, and possibly two, closer to that record!

  152. I feel bad for any users who want to come here to speculate on the new true master of the mystic arts, or comment on Wolverine, Strange, and Iron Fists legacies, or sing the praises of Wade Von Grawbadger’s inks (and name). 

    btw, such users = the Young Avengers 

  153. comicBOOKchris=Jarvis

  154. Can we just ban the annoying guys? Please?

  155. @kndoubleu- don’t be annoyed.  you’re perfectly welcome to sing the praises of Wade Von Grawbadger amongst all this nonsense.

  156. kndoubleu = Norman Osborne

  157. You know after reviewing NA #2 again, Wolverine stabbing Doc Strange and that other guy like he did and where he did would’ve caused some major damage realistically.  Lots of nerves and muscles go through that pectoral, axillary area, probably would’ve transected some of the brachial plexus on those sides, a small critique, just saying.

    And to remind some of you, it isn’t trolling if you’re talking about the actual topic of the discussion board, that is the New Avengers?

    Immonen’s beautiful art is by itself a reason to follow this book.

  158. I love you all equally.

  159. I can’t Stand Wolverine and Spider-man being on the Avengers

  160. lets leave Franktiger alone, the guy is one against too many…

  161. I also seem to remember Bendis saying somewhere, or being quoted somewhere, that after the first arcs of the Avenger books that the teams would be more solidified.  One thing I find funny though:  Wolverine and Spidey are "on" both teams right now, but so is Hawkeye, does everyone just love Hawkeye so much they don’t complain about him, or does Josh go through and delete any posts that reflect negatively on Roni….erm…Hawkeye?

  162. Just saying that there are days when these threads don’t make me embarrassed to be a comic fan, and today isn’t one of those days.

  163. I’m just happy I’m considered the Spider-Man of this site. 🙂

  164. hahaha, your welcome, TheNextChampion.

    You are everywhere on here running your mouth annoying folks but in the end we have to love you.

    I think it is an apt comparison.

  165. @ludusmaximus- not too mention his book with Mockingbird.  I noticed this too.  I think he’s still not used as much as Wolverine and Spider-Man so I can kinda see the difference.

  166. seriously, i disappear for a couple of months than this?

  167. I think we’re going to finally settle this argument this time.

  168. PymSlap (@alaska_nebraska) says:

    Is Iron Fist’s costume in continuity?

  169. i go to work, come back home…and this is still going on?!?!?!? epic.

  170. @ludusmaximus  I think with Hawkeye, he’s more traditionally an Avenger than Wolvie or Spidey, and there really isn’t a risk of overexposing Hawkeye in the Marvel U, he’s not on like 4 or 5 other different teams like Wolvie.  Part of the argument with Wolvie and Spidey being on the Avengers has to do with using those characters simply as marketing tools to attract new readers, regardless of continuity.

    Anyways, I’m sick of this topic, but thanks for the support by the way.  It wasn’t like I was the only one who objects to Wolvie and Spidey being on the Avengers.  I think it was pretty much down the middle actually.

  171. yeah i guess I was thinking more from a continuity example its just similar…Goodnight everyone, goodnight New Avengers #3!

  172. oh my.

    I went to bed, slept for 6ish hours, woke up, got dressed, had breakfast, came to work, had a meeting, did some personal admin, checked transfer rumours on the bbc website and this is STILL going!

    Bravo chaps, bravo.

    @Franktiger: You aren’t the only one but you are the most strident and acusatory. Thats not a problem, but you have got to accept the heat that comes with that.

    I’m not even going to be reading this book until next week!

  173. I’ve never understood the complaints about Wolvie being in too many books. I can’t think of *that* much I read with him in. Then again, I am only really a casual "mainstream comic" reader, which makes nitpicking less of a priority.

  174. Has any comic had this many comments before?

    This is why I love these characters, everyone has strong (not neccessarily wrong) feelings about what they think a chacter is like.

    It’s a bit of a shame the plot is so secondary. This is the magic on, yes?

     

  175. I posted this on the Secret Avengers thread in error – d’oh

    "I think a lot of people have taken this "team" situation the wrong way. I don’t think that anyone is saying Character X isn’t heroic or deserving to be on Team Y, just that the way Character X is protrayed (i.e as a loner) seems to go against being part of a team. I liked the idea of Wolverine being the "in case of emergency break glass" character, but the idea of him sitting at the dinner table having coffee is kind of funny".

    This is my opinion though, and those who think this book wouldn’t be write without Spider-man and Wolverine aren’t wrong, it’s opinons.

  176. @Zeppo- Avengers #1 had 186 back on May 19, so we’re close.

    I just think that arguing against Wolverine being on the Avengers made sense five years ago, but at this point, Bendis has written enough stories with Wolverine fighting alongside these characters.  We talk about his loyalty, well it’s right there.  If Logan thinks there is somewhere he belongs, that’s where he’ll be.  Plus, as Luke Cage has said, and it seems they all operate under this theory, Captain America said these characters are Avengers, and that is all they need to know.

    at any rate, there is no need for us to state that we are only stating our opinions.  the little "Posted by _____" after each post implies that.  I remember being taught there is no need to say "I think.." when writing a position. 

  177. @har13quin  so you’re accusing me of being accusatory, I just have strong opinions cus, as we all are I’m sure, am passionate about comics. 

    You’re saying I have to accept it when I guy talks about my mother, just cus he don’t like me on a message board?  I mean, you’re right, cus it’s cowardly and juvenile, but it’s also uncalled for.  Anyways, I hope I have another opinion that sparks another 150+ posting.  I am new to this website, and to message boards like this, and I certainly didn’t know that there was going to be such strong reactions and personalities like this on here, but it’s awesome and interesting to see the different perspectives and points of view, I’m amazed really.

    Can’t wait to to get to the store today, see ya on da flip side!

  178. If you’re new, let me give you some advice: if you have a differing opinion, that’s totally cool. Realize, however, that some will disagree with you. You can’t get extremely defensive and up-in-arms when someone presents such a disagreement. For instance, I wroteon the Secret Avengers thread how I thought that that was the weakest Avengers book on the stands, to which some people (including Conor) gave the opposite opinion. Did I start ranting and raving trying to get others to accept my opinion?

    NO!

    Live and let live. People are going to disagree with you and I. Discussion is one thing, but over zealous defending of your opinion when someone presents the opposite view can sometimes be irritating. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t mak your opinion any less valid to you, so there’s no reason to go on a crusade to make everyone believe what you do after you made your point.

  179. On a different note, this issue was really good.  Immonen is fantastic still and the coloring is great.  People who do not like Bendis’ trademark dialogue will hate a lot of this issue, but I love it. 

    Also, I have had that very same Ghostbusters conversation with people before.  And I still cannot fathom how people have not seen it.

  180. @MisterJ The effect! I’ll tell you what the effect is! It’s pissing me off"

    lol, such a great movie, favorite of all time

  181. @comicBOOKchris  funny that’s exactly the point I’ve made throughout this whole thing, peeps gotta calm down and not refer to my mother if I think Wolverine and Spidey shouldn’t be on the Avengers.  Not sure where you’re getting the ranting and raving, I just don’t want my mother to be included in the topic of discussion, but guess you condone that kind of thing just cus I wouldn’t change my stance and it irritated a lot of you.  To me, this was a spirited, strongly opinionated discussion, but when someone’s gotta refer to my mother?  That’s wack, I’m not blaming myself for that.

  182. @Franktiger: Those comments were deleted.

  183. Just so you know, what you describe isn’t at all how you’re being perceived. We’ve had many great discussions on this site without resorting to the tactics that you are (flaming the thread). That’s what makes this site so great: a lack of obnoxious flaming posters like on most other comic sites. I’m just trying to let you know how your flame war is being percieved. Its not spirited discussion. Its obnoxious. Learn from the other posters and discussions from this site.

  184. Why not? Try for 300! Oh yeah this issue was great. I loved the Spidey Thing banter.

  185. Man, I bet the people that don’t like Bendis HATED this issue.  I however, liked it quite a bit.  This and Secret Avengers are neck and neck…

  186. @Roi-Likely the best comedy ever made for my money

    "Is this true??"

    "Yes sir, it is correct, that man has no penis"

    I do not know if that is my favorite line or, "The walls of the 53rd precinct were bleeding."

  187. Why does this thread have so many comments?  WHY?   

  188. @comicBOOKchris your ranting and raving is obnoxious. What you accuse me of is exactly what you’re doing, so chill out and stop assuming your perception represents a general one, stop lecturing and just enjoy the discussion, and if you don’t like what I have to say, which has been completely reasonable and on topic, that’s fine.
    Finally got to the store, got $20 off my books too, beautiful.

  189. Not sure how I feel about the antagonist reveal at the end, but all in all a cool issue. This issue read real quick too. I liked the bit with Iron Fist in the alternate dimension. Any ideas who is the other talking?

    My least favorite of the three issues so far but not by much 4/5.

  190. And there’s the old “I know you are, but what am I?”argument. Terrific. The cycle is now truly complete.

    Very fun issue, I especially love Thing’s pressence on the team. I also find it funny that, no matter if the characters are regular superheroes or supreme high beings, everyone does that Bendis speak style of dialog.

    I’m certainly enjoying this arc more than the one it’s supposed to be a sequel to (from the previous volume), but I think that’s because I’m digging the Immonen art so much, as it really works well. I’m certainly hooked for the next issue.

  191. Its called projection, you even did it in your last post!

    Pretty enjoyable issue, and even though still bothers me to see Wolvie and Spidey here, Immonen’s art is just amazing, and Bendis writiing is enough to stay on (particularly liked the concept of how Iron Fist was protected).  I’m vaguely familiar with who that was at the end, but was unable to put a name to him. And where was Hawkeye in this one?

    Victoria Hand was pretty sweet in this though, you gotta admit.

  192. I like Wolverine… and I like Conor

  193. Bendis hit his threshold on this issue for me.  A homage to Ferris Bueller then immediatley a few page discussion of Ghostbusters.  I love Bendis and what he does but that was a bit much.

  194. Goodness me, nearly 200 posts.

    Still not read the book, but I will weigh into the argument and just say: I’m with comicBOOKchris. You are in the wrong Franktiger. It’s just my opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of any other ifanboy user, nor would I suggest it does. However, when you’ve had friction with not only Conor, but other users I think it’s time to look to yourself as the cause.

    I promise, no more from me on the subject now.

    I’m sure the book is great, as it always is. Immonen is worth the price alone anyway, so the foibles of Bendis’ writing can be forgiven. Whether he includes spidey and wolverine or not.

  195. @MisterJ That line about the walls is delivered with such dry seriousness that it’s amazing. the line I quote the most by virtue of living in a college town is "You’ve never been out of college. I’ve worked in the private sector… they expect results."

  196. @Roi-That line has far more truth than the writers’ ever expected.  It should be drilled into kids starting at age 15. 🙂

  197. @MisterJ  Teachers should wear shirts every other thursday with that line in huge black letters on the front. It’s more true than anyone will ever know. Ever.

  198. Problem is teachers don’t have to get results to keep teaching for thirty+ years. The teacher unions ensure it.

  199. @Scorpion Don’t forget teacher tenure as well. I know teachers who have worked in the university system for so long that know one can do anything about how F’ing crazy they are. Ridiculous.

  200. Exactly.

    Lunatics teach America’s kids.

  201. There is a guy at my cities university who won’t let you tape record his lectures because "they" might listen. He also won’t drive to work if it’s pouring rain but he willa ccept a ride from a student, so if there’s a test that day and you don’t want it postponed till the next week when you have all this other crap to do, you have to call him in the morning, see if it’s raining too hard for him to drive and then ask if you could give him a ride. He also keeps his arm in a sling whenever he’s walking too and from his car or anywhere outside his classroom/office on campus. Benn doing it for years

  202. @har13quin  please, in the wrong about what?  Getting my mother called out for not liking Wolverine and Spidey on the Avengers is my fault?  That’s pretty funny.  All I did was express my opinion reasonably and consistently, not my fault the lot of you will get bent out of shape over that.

    I know I have learned that sometimes there are misunderstandings when you write something on a message board, like with conor, I misunderstood what he was saying but eventually agreed with him, so quit trying to blame me for ‘friction.’  This is a MESSAGE BOARD, not some high school playground. 

    No more about this from me, thanks.

  203. And the university is powerless to get rid of him . . .

  204. Pretty much. He’s got a shitload of awards from the 80s and early 90s, all kinds of tenure. I’m pretty sure the president of the university is actually scared of him.

    Best story about him, his name is Dr. Roth by the way, I was walking across the faculty parking lot on the way to the university press where i worked at the time. Dr. Roth stops me and asks if I have a cell phone and if he can use it. So i say sure and he dials a number and walks a few feet away talking very lowly. He hands the phone back to me and says thank you. I go up and tell my editor what just happened and we dial the number he called to find out it’s the desk for what is essentially the bomb squad at the nearest police precinct. We both head back to the parking lot. Within 20 minutes a van pulled up and two officers got out and unloaded a robot which then rolled under Dr. Roths car and removed a paper sack which was full of…. mexican takeout. Someone had thrown it out of their car and it landed behind his wheel. Crazy bastard thought it was a bomb and had the number for the bomb squad in his address book. True story

  205. Aaaaaand let’s get back to comics, please.

  206. LOL, this thread is so far off-topic…

  207. hahahaha, awesomely funny and crazy. I think you got a comic about a university professor in these stories.

    Look how I brought it all back, Conor.

    RoiVampire is distracting me from getting another post deleted.

  208. Back on topic I love love love the way Bendis writes Danny Rand

  209. Between this issue and Shadowland: Power Man, I love the extra Iron Fist dosage that we got this week.

  210. Between Avengers, New Avengers, and Secret Avengers, I think this is my favorite thus far.  I’m loving the art and this story has been solid.  I also think the characters on this team go together well, especially Spider-man and the Thing; awesome to have them together in my opininion.  Plus this is where I come to get my Ms. Marvel fix since she’s one of my favorite characters.

  211. @cubman I always love spidey mixing it up with the members of the FF

  212. My real problem with the book is that it isn’t on the west coast!

  213. You know the oral history of the Avengers isnt really thirilling me. Now if it was the anal history of the Avengers…

    too much? 

    … Um The Thing in 2 books, that’s crazy talk!

  214. well they just keep trying to insert the Thing into too many places.

    ..sorry it was too easy. 

  215. this thread has been one hell of a party, I must say.  I know I’ve built up a bit of a reputation around here for stirring the chaos pot as much as make legitimate discussion of the books.  however I am confident that there is an appreciation for the chaos at this site.

    this issue was great, as expected.  I liked the Victoria Hand/Jessica Jones scene a lot.  I believe the old guy at the end was the Ancient One, that would seem to fit.

  216. Yeah, it was the Ancient One.

    I got too many wonderful posts deleted in this thread . . .

  217. i hate Iron Fist’s " costume ". what was wrong with his old one?! it was classic!

    seNoj1 : THIS IS WHAT I AM SAYING!  ( where is Paul Reiser, anyway?! )

    the art was beautiful. LOVED IT! cinco stars!

    love the way Bendis writes Spider-man. too funny.

     

  218. Spider-man’s interactions with The Thing are great. So good to have them on a team together.

  219. 218 comments, I can’t believe there’s only one review of this.

  220. I was just thinking the same thing

  221. Am I the only one who’s getting tired of Bendis’ shtick?

  222. @AquaPimp82 – Then find someone else’s shtick to play with!

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