Comic Books

BATMAN AND ROBIN #8

BATMAN AND ROBIN double-ships in February with part 2 and 3 of “Blackest Knight” guest-starring Batwoman, Knight and Squire! Only months into his new role as Batman, Dick Grayson faces perhaps the biggest threat of his life. In hopes of attaining his heart’s desire, has Dick instead unleashed a terror the likes of which the world has never seen?

Meanwhile, back in Gotham City, Alfred and a recuperating Robin are at the mercy of someone both fearsome and familiar…

Written by Grant Morrison
Art and Variant cover by Cameron Stewart
Cover by Frank Quitely

Price: $2.99
iFanboy Community Pick of the Week Percentage: 7.8%

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robbydzwonar02/13/10YesRead Review
flapjaxx02/13/10YesRead Review
TheNextChampion02/11/10YesRead Review
cubman98702/11/10YesRead Review
glwarm7602/10/10YesRead Review
akamuu02/09/10NoRead Review
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Comments

  1. If anyone’s interested in sites that keep insanely detailed annotations on Morrison’s run, documenting the underlying themes and allusions, check out the successive B&R posts on:

    http://rikdad.blogspot.com/

    http://funnybookbabylon.com/

    http://www.4thletter.net/2009/11/batman-robin-the-facets-of-the-joker/

    But on the surface the current arc is a decent straight-forward action-adventure tale too.

  2. Yay!!!!

  3. I loved the first half of the last issue, but the second half (lettering problems aside) rubbed me the wrong way.  Hopefully the explanation of crazy-Bruce has something to do with the fact that Black Hand was messing with his body, and doesn’t go off on some weird tangent.

  4. Glad to see this back so soon.

  5. This is gonna be fun, I can just feel it.

  6. I found the art in the last issue just terrible

  7. The overall art at DC seems superior to Marvel at the moment.  I realize this is a sweeping generalization and many creators play for both teams.  The coloring at Marvel still seems awful (muddy) as well, as Ron as often pointed out.  Not every book is a winner but DC has been much closer to my taste art-wise as a company.

  8. Cameron Stewart is awesome and he’s doing a signing at my local comic shop(Librairie Millenium in Montreal) this saturday. Can’t wait.

  9. I dropped this after FQ left. But seeing as how this book might actually get us somewhere in the return of Bruce Wayne, I’ll jump back on. 

     
    I still say Red Robin and Detective Comics are the best Bat books out right now, with Batgirl a close third. Go back 6 months ago, who would have thought that Batman and Robin wouldn’t be the top Bat book. 
  10. Yup, Cameron Stewart is really good. He has this classic, polished cartooning style like Alex Toth but with an adult sensability. Fantastic stuff!!

    @Supertrackmonkey: I don’t think it’s matter of one book being better than the other. I think they are just telling differient story, yeah? 

  11. @zenman: Kinda agree with you; At the moment DC is a little more polished with story and art. I also feel there is more excitement with DC. I even find my interest in Marvel titles is 3rd to DC & indie titles.

    I notice I have dropped many more Marvel titles in the past year – not because of art – but because the stories weren’t generating enough interest anymore.  Now, I generally stay with writers like Bendis, Brubaker and Millar for Marvel titles. This is the opposite to what I was reading about 3 years ago . . . where I had more Marvel than DC titles.

    Maybe this has something to do with it:  
    Doesn’t Marvel hire out digital companies to do coloring on many of their titles?  (and lettering?)

  12. Detective has been my fav batbook since the relaunch, but I don’t understand the beating this title receives. I really enjoyed last issue, inspite of one or two hitches.

     Plus Cameron Stewarts batwoman is beautiful.

  13. @Zeppo : minus the fact that she is the "New Batman" thanks to the editors.

  14. @NathanNicdao

    Yes, it was a little annoying no one thought to check the flagship Batman series for errors before printing, but I can’t blame Morrison or Stewart for that.

  15. Glad to see this again so soon.  I don’t get enough Cameron Stewart in my life.

  16. Here is the Cam Stewart variant … looks good, but I will get the FQ one this week.,

    http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-23599503122488_2093_626258543

  17. SPOILERS

    I like that there is a "bad" Batman running around.  I also like that Dick’s incredibly stupid decision to put the body in a Lazarus pit blew up in his face. 

  18. This was fantastic.

  19. I guess it’s understandable that there would be a misplaced word baloon here. Pretty good issue overall, well drawn fight scene. Not really sure whats gonna happen with Batwoman dying.

    How is it that King Cole planned for the beast to be summoned if he didnt even know batman was coming to England? What was he planning with Kate? And who were those two villains with the Batman clones?

  20. Captain America: I see your "Not dead, just back in time" and raise you one "evil duplicate."

    Batman: Call. 

  21. @JaqueNargg

    The less visible villain was Darkseid.

  22. @djd  Yeah I noticed that too but then I wasn’t sure and got myself confused so I just moved on.

    This issue was not great by any means but could be setting up a good story.

  23. Batman clone 🙁

    I wonder if we get an explaination as to why Alfred got this body & where he got it from? I won’t hold my breath.

  24. @cubman God I hope so.  The last two issues were awful, imo. 

  25. As much as I like Cameron Stewart’s work, Morrison is starting to lose me.  I am not going to turn into some sort of rabid detractor, but I just can’t get into his writing style.

  26. His style can get a little confusing but his overall vision kinda rules.

  27. Art was bad, editing was bad (again), and let’s kill off the best character in the bat-family?  Really?  What the hell did I just read? ;_;

  28. @Gloomy-Bad art? What didn’t you like? And it’s pretty obvious what her plan is…considering they are close to a Lazarus Pit.

  29. @WadeWilson: We saw how Alfred go tthe body many, many months ago. Superman brought it to him. It was in one of Judd Winick’s BATMAN issues.

    @Gloomy: If you think Batwoman is really dead I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

  30. I really enjoy Morrison’s storytelling methods. I may not like the end result every time, but my enjoyment mostly stems from the fact that this is a writer with an obvious love of the Silver Age and his approach is so unlike most things on my stack. Its quite refeshing to me. I totally see the debate going on here (again). Looking back at Silver Age stories, there are a lot of whacky things happening in terms of pacing and how, from panel to panel, things would appear out of no where. Poor writing? Or writing to the point where readers are challenged to accept something as a given. This is something the comicbook medium always used to get away with back in the Silver Age. Today, comicbook readers (an older readership) practically demands an explaination for everything. Grant is making us (the reader) challenge this. I just love this idea.

  31. This issue was the best since Quitely. If you didn’t read Morrison’s previous Batman work you could be really confused but for me it completely worked. And in the dialogue it is clear Batwoman is faking her death. 

    Also, I feel pity for Damien.

    Great issue. 

  32. The Darkseid reveal was great. 

    Was sad that Batwoman appears and is killed (despite obvious resurrection to come) like she is some kind of second grade hero instead of an equal to Dick, hell, even Squire survived the fight! 

    Liked that Morrison filled us in on how Batwoman got down there, as last issue’s explanation was thin.

    Wish we had seen if Dick actually kills her?  Maybe that will be next issue as a flashback?

    If Batwoman comes out of this with enhanced strength that would be great.  Just a little, something like twice the strength of a normal woman.

     

  33. Speaking of the Darkseid reveal, this is a perfect example of that Silver Age-type of pacing I mentioned. We got one (two?) panel telling us about a switch that happens off camera in a book that is not mentioned specifically to the reader. Straight to the point. The current writing style would of mentioned the issue and may of used a page worth of panels to explain all of this.

  34. @Urthona: It wasn’t that last issue’s explanation was thin, it is the way the story is structured. We were dropped into the middle of the action, and then slowly over the course of the rest of the story we are told how we got there. It’s a tried and true storytelling method.

  35. Okay, I am SO lost!  Where is Darkseid?  And since when is the the body Superman gave Alfred a clone?  So the Bruce Wayne/Batman that was resurrected in Blackest Night is a clone also?  I really need to start tradewaiting this stuff.  Oh wait, nevermind.  This is DC, I’ll be 40 by the time the softcover comes out.

  36. @Robby-Darkseid was a flashback scene. The rest of your questions will be answered later, either in Blackest Night or upcoming issues of this series.

  37. Great issue as always. Stewart did some fantastic pages in this and he just fits right in with this series. I also love the coloring in this too, makes it a very bright and cheery looking book.

    To get to the big elephant in the room: To me, it was obvious that Darkseid left a clone of Bruce to be seen by Superman. So the Omega Sanctions sent Bruce both mind AND body to the past. So the whole time, since Final Crisis #6; we have been looking at the ‘wrong’ Bruce Wayne. Brilliant. Makes all of this arguing for the past year and some months totally irrelevent now.

  38. RE: the whole batman clone thing. Wasn’t Darkseid trying to clone batman during Final Crisis? There were whole rooms full of batman clones

  39. @edward: Yeah that’s where the clone is from. The issue shows two panels of Darkseid deciding to leave a dead clone of Bruce in his lair. So if that’s the case, then we haven’t seen the ‘proper’ corpse of Bruce for quite some time.

  40. @TNC: haven’t had a chance to read the book yet but that’s pretty interesting. So bruce’s body was zapped back in time too. that makes more sense.

  41. @conor – I naturally don’t believe that Batwoman will stay dead, but that’s kind of the problem.  Seeing her treated like a two-bit chump, and then given an "onoes, she’s ded!" moment when we know it won’t come to anything is just… thin.  Right now I can’t even tell why Batwoman’s being used here.  Connecting with Dick and recognizing that he’s Nightwing is important, I guess?  But I’m looking at this story and just seeing zero payoff for that character’s inclusion.  Considering the intricate, amazing things that have been done with that character in Detective the past six months, her use here just seems ham-handed and disappointing.  Like hey, let’s create amazing stuff like the West Point scene and all this incredible backstory, build the character up to be extremely strong, and then let’s make her play second fiddle to Dick.  Like they couldn’t have just had Squire get squished and thrown HER into the pit next issue?

    @drake – Yeah, I can’t stand the art.  Stewart’s work seems strangely unbalanced.  I mean, look at the facial detail on Page 2 – looks fine, right?  And that works for me.  But then look at Page 3 and 4 – it’s like a different artist drew it.  Exaggerated lips, next to no facial definition, awkward character orientation – even the proportions and body dimensions don’t feel right.  The atmospheric coloration seems overused too, and the book just winds up feeling gaudy and imprecise.

    The first part of this arc felt rushed on the story side, and the editing errors and unpolished art just make it feel even worse.  This is a flagship book for DC and in my mind, it’s getting its ass kicked by Batgirl, Red Robin, and Detective Comics.  This just seems like the weakest book of the Bat-brand right now, and I can’t help but wonder why.  Did somebody just figure this was an immediate sale to the average customer on the strength of the title or Grant Morrison’s name on the cover?  What kind of amazing carelessness results in obviously incorrect speech bubble placement two issues in a row?

    I’m glad most people seem to enjoy it, and I don’t mean to detract from that, but I feel as if someone may be slacking because they figure "It’s Batman and Robin, it’ll sell – so, whatever."  And as a reader that concerns me.

  42. @edward: It totally makes sense now. I mean all of these arguments over the internet since Final Crisis #6 (already been said) is now irrelevent. Morrison basically answers what we’ve all been thinking for over a year now….but not really answering it! He makes us think about it and we get that huge revelation in our own understanding of it.

  43. Oh, and what was up with Dick’s electrified bat-knuckles?  I’m going to give the book the benefit of the doubt here and assume I might just be missing something, but it looks like they disappear and then reappear later in the fight.  I’m hoping this is something really basic that I’m misconstruing, or a clever continuity trick like the one in the latest Detective, but I’m not seeing it.  It looks like the knuckles disappear after they fail to make much of an impact on Assumedly-Cloned-Bruce, the fight continues a bit, Dick blocks the pickaxe shot, and then on the next page the knuckles are back?  Please tell me this wasn’t just Stewart forgetting Dick was wearing the knuckles halfway through the fight. 🙁

  44. @Gloomy- He loose them when "evil clone batman" punch him on page 8 panel 1 and 2.

  45. @Gloomy-I really don’t understand how you think she is treated as a two bit chump. And she is included in the arc because part of this story deals with the religion of crime, which has been a huge antagonist for that character for a while now. Also, I disagree 100% about the artwork.

  46. So whats the deal with Kate being there? Seems King Coles plan was for the Bruce clone (aka the beast) to show up, so what was thepurpose of Kate being sacrificed?

  47. I dig Stewart’s art, but could you imagine if Quietly drew this issue…wow. I really liked this issue a lot. Was there a lettering issue when Damian gets off the helo? And i almost forgot the quick way to get around England now was a sith speeder. Silly as hell looking with Bats riding it.

  48. I have really tried to give this every chance but I give up.

    Morrison may be as brilliant as Michael Stipe and Picasso when it comes to his art. Or he may be a huckster writing off-the-wall crap for the sake of it and his clever jaded fans scan every image and word for depth and meaning.

    Either way this book has IMO failed since issue 3 and is degrading fast.

     

  49. Jared K. Fletcher, I deem thee a shitty letterer.

  50. rockingeek – Hmm – I guess those shards in Panel 1 are supposed to be the knuckles breaking?  That doesn’t make sense to me though, as it implies CloneBats punched Dick in the hands or something, and the knuckles magically reappear on Page 13.  I’m still kind of stumped over this.

     

    drake – I’m glad you can enjoy it.  I wish I could.

  51. hmmm… are micheal stipe and picasso really on the same level?

  52. Decent issue. A little bit of a let down, but some cool stuff going down. 4/5 for me. Quite a few 52 references in this issue.
     
    @gloomy I would imagine this like Buffy’s death at the first season of that show. She *dies* for all of a minute to fulfill a prophecy. (Which would seem to be the case.) 
     
    @Conor Well, Alfred was given Bruce’s body by Superman, then they buried it in an unmarked grave next to Bruce’s parents for Blackest Night, then after seeing what happened to it there, they went and locked it up in the basement. 
  53. Judging by the comments, B&R is the new WoNK

  54. @Conor – I totally agree.  That was great the way Morrison wrapped that up properly, and it was no accident, it was a mark of good storytelling and he clearly had it planned that way.  The Darkseid reveal was the same thing on an even bigger scale.

    When I said ‘thin’, I meant that in the context of "if Morrison hadn’t returned to flesh it out".  Sorry my post didn’t read that way.

  55. After last issues clunky return, this was awesome. My POW in a very weak week (including the worst issue of ultimate spider-man I’ve ever read mostly due to art). Morrisons script was alot clearer (except for that one batman/ Englishman panel) and Stewart really seemed to be channeling quietly a few times where I had to double check to make sure it was Stewart. I also loved how the tension kept getting ratcheted up towards the end. This was alot of fun, like the first arc.

  56. This issue felt a little like, just moving the peices around to be ready for next issue.

    Batwoman didn’t seem right to me this week. I assume by the end she’s pulling a Matt Wagner’s Wonder Woman here. I enjoyed her role more last week, and unfortunatly my strong love for her made me see the flaws in this issue.

    Still a fun series though.

  57. I think it was a mistake to use Batwoman here, so close to the Detective Comics run.  Detective is the "gritty crime comic" whereas this is a continuation of Morrison’s "action-Batman" storyline.  I love both dearly, but think there’s a clear difference in style, and I prefer Rucka’s Kate.

    However, I have to throw my two cents in about some other aspects that I loved.  One, the "choppiness" is just part of Morrison’s kinetic, constantly moving vision for this book.  Two, it’s great to see him move on his overall masterplan.  It felt as though the clone was an explanation he had in place during Final Crisis and served to remind me that this is part of a massive opus.  What makes it even sweeter is the fact that it always feels so fresh.

  58. I totally missed the darkseid moment, guess that happens when you read a comic and try to watch opening of the Olympics at same time.  That and the fact I didn’t read or follow final crisis. That’s the benefit of the ifanboy community, they can fill in the cracks.

  59. This was all over the place. Knightfall throwback?

  60. Flapjaxx, that was one awesome review.  I’m blown away.  I wish you had allowed comments.  I still felt the need to say I read and enjoyed it.  Keep it up on future Batman and Robin issues. 

  61. I loved the art in this one more than the last.

  62. Why does this come out so often?

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