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Rustyautoparts11/12/09NoRead Review
Neb11/11/09NoRead Review
TheNextChampion11/11/09NoRead Review
Avg Rating: 3.4
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  1. Blah blah blah Philip Tan sucks blah blah can’t wait for Cameron Stewart blah blah blah. Figured I should get that out of the way for everyone.:~) 

  2. I’m confused with this solict. Morrison revealed who Red Hood was and Dick knew who it was without second guessing. Plus how are Red Hood/Scarlett in any position to do anything? That Flamingo guy took them out with no problem.

    Either way, I hope this is a soild conclusion because the last issue still bugged me. Not because of the art, but because Morrison didn’t seem to bring his A game for that issue. Still, any issue of this series is exciting to wait for.

  3. I think Tan’s art can work in certain books, but he just does not jive with the story Morrison is going for. Their storytelling styles are too different and with a different artist I think this arc gets a much better reaction.

  4. @TNC – I agree that, regardless of Mr. Tan, Mr. Morrison’s writing this arc hasn’t felt special.  I don’t feel excited by the events in the book.  Part of that may be the art, but the writing must shoulder part of the blame.

  5. im gonna agree with TNC and Stuclach, something is missing from the writing. Im not a huge fan of Tan, but art doesnt make or break a book, the writing is to fault for, in my opinion, more than 50% of a story. I hope this wraps up good.

  6. At the end of the day, a medicore story by Grant Morrison is readable. I dont know how they are going to put this series in trade but I would definitely think getting the issues of 1-3 will be wiser then get the first trade. (Assuming if the first trade collects 1-6)

  7. I’m going to go ahead and disagree. The writing on this arc was of the exact same standard as the first. The art killed the excitment plus the title isn’t totally fresh anymore.

  8. Reminder to people that the image above is the variant Tan cover, not the Quitely cover that will be on the shelf for most of us.

    @Win: Hahaha. Thanks for trying to get that stuff out of the way, sir.

    @TNC: Yeah, solicits often lie. They’re written months in advance by people who get the plot information second-hand. Even when the solicit is misleading, though, it can give you some insight into the creative process. It seems like Morrison originally wanted the identity of the Red Hood to be more of a mystery than it was.

    This was the weakest Morrison Batman storyarc in a long time, imo. I still enjoyed it, but the height of my enjoyment has mostly been reduced to grasping for thematic parallels and such. For example, the stuff Morrison put in last issue (and again in this one, according to people who’ve read the preview) about the Red Hood being involved in phone-in polls of what Gothamites think of crime fighting–that harkens back to how readers once killed Jason Todd thru a phone-in poll. It’s nods like that that’ve interested me most so far. But hopefully the last issue of this arc brings more meat and offers some revelations and plot leads. Because the next storyarc (which doesn’t start till late Jan! GRR!) looks promising.

  9. @edward – I don’t think the writing is bad, but it hasn’t kept me as excited as it did in the firt arc.  I think that may be because I simply don’t find Jason/Red Hood to be a very interesting/intimidating villain.  It is Mr. Morrison’s job to make him interesting and he hasn’t (in my opinion).

  10. The writing quality has definitely dipped for this arc.  It inherently happens when Jason Todd is inserted into a story.

  11. @Stuclach: Come on dude, the art has a little something to do with that as well. Look at the covers quitely did for this arc. If the interiors matched that this would be awesome

  12. I have to agree with Edward. I don’t think the writing has taken a dip at all.

  13. I’ve actually enjoyed Tan’s art, but I’ve never been picky about stuff like that.  I buy this book for Morrison’s story, that’s is all.

  14. what a difference a cover makes, huh?

  15. god im gonna get blasted but oh well… quitley is over rated to me he makes everyone look fat


  16. @TNC 

    The Batman and Robin trade collects #1-6. 

  17. Freddie Mercury defeated Batman and Robin? Cover of the week?

    This is bad for Philip Tan, we are welcomed with this fantastic Quitely art only to see Tan’s art inside.

    Morrison’s writing compels me to pull this.

  18. the LAST "Batman and Robin" of 2009  enjoy it.


    (Cant wait till Blackest Knight) 

  19. @Edward – yup

  20. @edward – I’m certain the art colours* my opinion of Mr. Morrison’s writing a bit, but I don’t feel comfortable putting all the blame on Mr. Tan.  Jesus (he was quite the artist) could be drawing the interiors and I wouldn’t be excited to see acne covered Jason Todd complaining about the color of his hair.  

    *that "u" was just for you. 

  21. @Stuclach: thanks for the "u"

    I still disagree. The first arc was elevated to a higher level because of the synergy of art and story. Tan just doesn’t have it. Whether "it" is a working relationship with Morrison, an understanding of the comic medium or his design sense. It’s not there and it’s not good 

  22. That is one of the most ridiculous villains ever, really gave me a chuckle.

  23. Looks like I have a lot of Batman rereading to do tonight.  I hate diving into a new issue barely remembering what the hell happened last month.  Why does DC have to be such a dick about getting trades out on time?

  24. I think that Morrison’s writing has felt weaker this arc and the art has definitly not been to my tastes.  Too many cringe worthy moments with how he draws characters.  Alfred in particular has been really bad in both issues.

  25. Hey everyone, what about Jonathan Glapion? He is good.

  26. Jason Todd looks good in Hot Pink.

  27. @amircat: that’s not jason todd. jason todd is a tool though

  28. @AmirCat: I think thats supposed to be the Flamingo, not Jason Todd.

  29. Just my two cents, but i think the writing has been great this arc. 

  30. The writing has been sloppier this arc than in the past with Morrison, it was that aspect of the book that annoyed me last issue and not the art.

  31. That would be amazing if this were Jason Todds new look. This would be cool not only from an lol standpoint, but also would give writers something new to play with… Jason Todd changing his look with every appearance that he makes.

  32. I just load this on my screen and I see that as a cover now. That is just a ridiculous design for a villain. lol

    My only annoyance with this entire arc (other then the writing) was the hatred on the art. People just didn’t give Tan a chance and he has done a fantastic job with this series so far. Yes it’s subjective and yes there are past experiences to be hesitant on Philip Tan. But I saw nothing but hate on this particular arc before #4 even came out. That’s not fair for a guy who has to make up for Quitely not being able to keep up with a schedule.

  33. @TNC-Tan was not brought on board because Quitely couldn’t stay on schedule.  It was always planned to have 4 artist doing 3-issue arcs each.  And Tan is not a good storyteller.

  34. Love the cover, and the preview had me laughing.

    I don’t love the art, but it’ll do.

  35. @edward – We will just have to agree to disagree (if you are willing to agree to that).  Regardless, I hope this issue is more fun than the last two.

  36. Tan isn’t my problem this arc just isnt as good as Pyg. Pink for the logo is a no no. Still a solid book but Detective, Batgirl and Batman rock more baby!

  37. @Drake: But didn’t they plan to do rotating artists because Quitely couldn’t keep up for the whole series?

  38. Good call on changing the cover image. (Just wanted to point out for posterity that when I made my previous comment, the Tan cover was up.)

    I think the pink perfectly suited a "Flamingo" villain. It’s a new bird-theme villain, more skilled and violent than the Penguin…but on the other hand, it’s ironic because he’s dressed in pink. It’s supposed to be weird and creepy, almost laughable except for the fact that, oh yeah, the guy will bite your face off.

    It’s that sort of irony that can come through in Quitely’s art but probably not Tan’s. Quitely can make things look funny but menacing at the same time. I’ve yet to see Tan pull that off; he’s not good on subtlety or mixed emotions. His art hasn’t ruined the arc for me by any means, but I don’t see how some people think he’s done a "fantastic" job. Look over how he draws Damian’s morphing, hideous face. Look at the convoluted mess of the Penguin falling from the building–you can’t tell what anatomic position his body is in. Look at how, in the action sequences, sometimes you can’t really tell how the fight’s going because the motion lines don’t really match up with any sensible character movement from panel to panel. You like the guy’s style, cool. But there are basic storytelling techniques that are just undeniably flawed.

  39. @flapjaxx: Couldn’t have said it better. His style is good, but I just can’t tell what’s going on half the time.

  40. @Rustyautoparts-All I’ve read has stated that the inital plan was always 4 artist.  Because of their plans to bring back Bruce some time next year, I doubt they would ever consider putting all their faith in Quitely finishing 12 issues on a set schedule like that.  Maybe internally they wanted him to do all 12, but as far as I know they never publicly stated that.

  41. i think the cover is badass. it reminds me of purple rain and i think thats intention due to the fact prince did the 1989 batman movie soundtrack

  42. @drake/rusty: That had to be the whole point of these artists. We’ve seen Quitely on a series before, he can’t keep up with a monthly schedule. So obviously Tan/Irving/Stewart was brought in so Quitely can do the rest of his issues. If we had Quitely on as artist full time, we’d probably just be waiting for issue #5 right now.

    Again I’m fine if people don’t like the guy, trust me his run on GL made me iffy on him. But I just wish people didn’t trash the guy before they saw the art.

  43. @drake: No, I think you’re completely right. I was just saying, I think Grant Morrison, DC, and the world want to see Frank Quitely do the entire book. The only reason he’s not is because he’s too slow to stick to the schedule, hence the rotating artists. In a way, I’m glad we got Tan out of the way, as I’m nothing but excited for Cameron and Irving’s arcs.

    @TNC: I know you’re not talking directly to me, but I understand what you’re saying. I felt like the writing has been consistently awesome. While I think Tan’s a talented artist, he’s just too muddy from a storytelling standpoint. Definitely not as bad as people are complaining about. Dropping the title for 3 issues is just stupid imo *ahem* Ron. Then again, I think Sanders’ Beast design is the shit, so it all evens out in the end, right?

  44. @rusty: Is Tan a bit of a downgrade from Quitely? Yes.

    Does he do exciting panels like Quitely? No.

    But he has his own style that works for me with the book. But I can see why you, and others, dont like his run.

  45. @Stuclach: i could never stay mad with you, baby. TNC on the other hand…

  46. @edward – Glad to hear it. 

  47. @WinTheWonderboy ,  @edward – Oh yeah thanks guys, I forgot about the last issue. Looks like I need to go back and read it. 

    Who is this Flamingo guy? I’ve looked on Google about him and nothing conclusive comes up. Is he new or an old old character?

  48. @AmirCat: He’s new.

  49. @AmirCat: he’s a very flamboyant bad guy. you know, like if conor was a super-villian

  50. @edward. LOL

  51. Thank God I have MW2 to hold me over until tomorrow.

  52. We get new art after this issue right?

  53. @Bryce31: Correct. Cameron Stewart is on the next 3 issues starting in January. The book is skipping next month due to Blackest Night plot points.

  54. @Bryce31 – Yes.  I believe it is Cameron Stewart.

  55. This was a nice way to finish off the arc. Still not the best of Grant Morrison’s story ever, but he ended it strong. Loved more of the second half of the issue with Jason just screaming at Batman. He’s got the voice of Jason down. Philip Tan also ends this comic the same way he started it; on a high note. Sad to see him leave this series actually.

    Soild finish, let’s hope the next arc is a million times better though.

  56. Did anyone else find Robin’s "gay" joke offensive?

  57. Damn, that was some ugly art. 

  58. Terrible art and worse writing – this issue was a major fail all of the way around…. this is a bad enough issue to drop a series over

  59. Man people have very strong, negative reactions to this art. (I’m referring to here and twitter)

    I found it to be a soild entry by Tan once again.

  60. @finbarbat-I found it was in character for him.  I can see why some would find it offensive, but not I.

    This was easily the worst looking book I’ve read all year.

  61. I like Tan’s art, but the writing has bored me for three issues now. I’m out!

  62. The writing was much better but the art just still tweeks me.

  63. Tan delivers once again another solid issue. The writing was a definite dropoff….

  64. I somehow missed this at the shop.  The response is making me wonder if I should bother going back to pick it up.

  65. @stuclach: The writing got better and it was a nice cap off the story. The art was also very soild and actually looked amazing towards the 2nd half of the book. I guess it depends if you been complaining about the art in the first place. Sorry I can’t remember your stance with Tan on this comic.

  66. Terrible art, but I think the writing in this issue might be my favorite in the series. Loved it.

  67. I’ve been defending Tan and still think he is better than most on this site give him credit for.  That being said, this issue was just awful.  Boring, confusing and too many out of character moments.  I’ll check out number 7, but it needs to be WAY better than this for me to get number 8.

  68. I’ve heard from a bunch of people now that this was ‘confusing’ to follow.

    I need to ask: How was this confusing? It was easy to tell from my perspective of what was going on. The layouts couldn’t have been that bad.

  69. I couldn’t tell what was going on… They get out of a van, Jason grabs construction equipment, Batman’s hanging off a ledge and there are skyscrapers below him?  What? Did Flamingo die? I couldn’t tell. And no idea what was with the random ending.

    The writing was suffering a little too. Parts of it felt like it was written by Millar, and I mean that in the meanest way. 

  70. I really liked this issue. "Jason’s fought aliens and been to parallel worlds. He’s died and been brought back to life. Don’t ever underestimate him." That’s awesome. The Flamingo was scary. Doctor Hurt! Zur En Arrh!

  71. I will probably still pick it up.  I feel like I have to complete the arc. 

  72. I was not opposed to the art in the first two issues, but I really did not like it here.  I kinda want to dig the last two issues out and see if it got worse or if it is just in my head.  The darkness and the line work made me harken back to the early issues of Jim Lee’s Deathblow, except without the bonus of having far more interesting designs and me having the perspective of being 13. 

    The obligatory art complaint over with, I was not a fan of most of the writing either.  The only parts I cared for had Damien starring in them.  Although I was surprised that they let the gay comment through editorial. 

    I was bored with Todd screaming like a lunatic.  How did this Flamingo guy rank as some sort of arch-nemesis?  I felt that Flamingo himself was a let down too.  He just wasn’t overwhelming enough to make up for his lack of characterization.  He would have to be just a complete force of nature in his brutality to make up for the lack of characterization. 

    Are we also now presuming that the entirity of the GCPD is aware that Dick isn’t the ‘real’ Batman?

    And sunlight makes the mask fall off of Scarlett?  Really?  (and keep the comments relating to how this is a metaphor, I know it is, and it is a bad one)

  73. 🙁

  74. @MisterJ: In regards to the Scarlett thing; I swear there was a panel within this arc explaining that the masks will come off eventually. They arent permanent, but when the doctors tried to take it off they realized it was ripping off the real faces too.

    Maybe during the struggle with Flamingo, her mask started to get loose or something. I mean he was tugging at it really hard when they were fighting. I also wonder if that means she died….that would be a sad ending if that was the case.

  75. That was… disappointing.

  76. I am not trying to be a smart ass here, but can anyone on the site tell me that they like the artwork on the second page of this issue?  Some of the panels were excellent, but that Flamingo page is simply bad.

    Would anyone care to explain what actually happened on the last two pages of this issue?  Is that Bruce’s corpse in the vault or are we looking at something else?  (I apologize if it is obvious to some of you, but it wasn’t exceptionally clear in my opinion.)  If that is Bruce’s corpse, then what the hell is The Black Hand carrying around and why is it actually spitting out rings if it isn’t Bruce’s skull? 

  77. @stulach – I feel your pain there, I had no idea what was going on in the last few pages.

    And Robin better be laid out for awhile.  I will scream if he’s flying around Gotham with Batman in the next issue.

  78. @stuclach-No idea what we were looking at in those last few pages.  I’m as confused as you are.

  79. I thought it was solid.

  80. @TNC-if they gave a panel to the explanation previously, okay.  But that still does not excuse the bad metaphor of it coming off as the sun is rising.  Now if it came off and she died…  Well, it would be sad, but it would also be much more interesting than the ‘happy ever after’ type of ending that she got.

    @stuclach, darth, and drake-add my name to the petition of the unclear.  🙁

  81. @stuclach: I liked the second page of the issue, showing the Flamingo. The smoke effect looked really good and I love the menacing design for the character. Teeth are kinda like an alligator but that’s okay with me. Tan did a good job with the whip in this too, definitely made Flamingo look more unique.

    The last couple of pages are a bit confusing, only because Morrison is teasing us with something. It’ll probably have something to do with the next arc. I thought it was that in a short amount of time, Grayson is starting to lose his mind from being Batman. He’s using the ‘Zur-En-Arrh’ term that Bruce uses and we all know the insanity linked to that. Plus he goes into the Batcave (mansion) and he sees Bruce right in front of him. Clearly he’s hallucinating from being so tired.

  82. I thought this issue was the best of the 3. Despite a couple panels, the art served it’s porpoise. Also people face’s were being smashed in, so I can’t fault him for ugly faces, when it was a dirty filthy brawl.

    Also no weird Morrisonisms. It was a pretty straight forward issue with plenty of action.

  83. Can someone make an effergy of Tan then burn it. please? (just kidding, don’t do that)

  84. @TNC – I don’t think that was the Batcave.  It looked like some off-site location.  I would be very surprised if Mr. Morrison had Dick going insane this quickly, but I would also be intrigued (and I wouldn’t put anything past Mr. Morrison at this point).

    @TNC, again – No offense here, but I found that second page anatomically offensive.  Flamingo’s right arm looks very strange.  His neck is oddly proportioned.  His shoulders are roughly three times as wide as his waist.  In my opinion that page is almost Liefeldian.  Much of the rest of the book is solid, but that page SHOULD have been the best one in the issue/arc.  Flamingo’s closeup SHOULD have been spectacular, but it wasn’t and that makes him instantly forgettable (to me).  The Flamingo on the cover is infinitely more interesting then one on that page.  Just to be clear: I don’t have a problem with Mr. Tan.  He is infinitely more talented than I could ever dream of being and some of his work has been very nice and some the panels in this book are, as well, but many pages are simply too busy and look sloppy.  No offense intended, but it isn’t a style I generally enjoy.

  85. The art in this arc seriously reduced my enthusiasm for the up coming Didio/Tan run on Outsiders. The art wasn’t just bad, it couldn’t even stay consistent in its style of bad.

  86. Apparently that is Bruce’s body that we see at the end of the issue.  That raises a lot of questions about what is going on and when this story takes place.

  87. The panel with Dick-Batman putting his foot in Flamingo’s face, ..unforgiveable. Stuc could draw better, whether he thinks so or not. And Tan’s action scenes, a complete disaster. 

    There really wasn’t much writing in this, the first half of the book being filled with "EHN?"s, "UNNGH!"s, and GGRRFF!"s.  

    A sad issue on all parts.

  88. It will be interesting to see Grayson go insane this quickly. I mean obviously being a superhero will make you go a little off your rocker. But I would have to assume that, at least for this series, Dick has only been Batman for a couple of months. If he’s hallucinating and spouting ‘Zur-En-Arrh’ just like Bruce…..He’s going off the deep end fast.

  89. @stuclach: Hmm….I didn’t notice that neck issue. Yeah that does look a bit wonky. However, I think his shoulders look so wide because of what he’s wearing. Usually when people wear stuff like that, the shoulders look much bigger. Okay so maybe it’s not perfect, I didn’t give it a 5/5 mind you, but that is still a good looking page in my eyes.

  90. The last panel on the second to last page looks like Bruce.  But if that is his body in that vault, how did he put his mask back on if he is dead?  Why is that blade sticking out?  Doesn’t that Black Hand dude have Bruce’s skull for some reason?  I’m so confused.

  91. I agree with FACE; this issue was a train-wreck.  hard to follow, art just terrible, Robin’s situation played out only for a couple of panels with no one really effected by it, and the ending doesn’t so much qualify as a cliffhanger but rather a disjointed event, unrelated to the story but somehow a prelude to….what? That final question was the only thing that interested me…..and Robin has his own medical team that follows him by GPS? WTF! where did they even come from!?

  92. @TNC – Cool.  I’m glad you enjoyed it.

  93.  I’m a baby being photographed at Sears. DC is the photographer trying to get me to smile. They wave the Jason Todd puppet and I cry.

    "No wait, they say, that’s just Clayface pretending to be Jason Todd. Syke!"

     and I cry

    "Oh…but look Jason Todd IS alive, he’s the Red Hood, like the Joker used to be, that makes sense right?"

    and I cry

    "Oh! Oh! Did we mention he’s got a pleather jacket and he’s having a multiverse adventure? Fun right?"

    I’m purple from crying. A crowd has gathered. ‘Try a different puppet’ they say.

    "No. No. No. Everyone likes Jason Todd…when he’s RED ROBIN!!"


    "When he’s BATMAN!!!"


    "When he’s THE RED HOOD…like the joker used to…"


    "…did I mention he’s a redhead? Have you considered the implications of that?"

    and I cry and I cry and I cry

  94. @ drakedangerz I think that the skull in BN is Turpin’s from Final Crisis. I think Superman switched the bodies to preserve the real Bruce and the skull the Black Hand needed had residual energy from being possessed by Darkseid. I mean, Bruce’s skull is nothing special, right? Yet it’s producing Black Rings. And aftet the ant-montior was caputed and used as the central power battery, getting some of Darkseid’s Anti-Life energy was importatnt to the creation of the black rings. 

  95. @brassai2003 – That is an interesting theory.  I could see that being the actual story.  Well done.

  96. @brassai: That would be an interesting idea…..But Dan Turpin is very much alive after Final Crisis. At least I think he is. Cause when Darkseid’s soul was killed by the Black Rider, Turpin came back to his old self. Where he is at the moment is an entire other question.

    @thevision: When Damian was first introduced, Talia mentioned that she is going to keep a close eye on him. So I think they put a GPS tracker on him just in case…..I think that’s how Ra found him in that awful Resurrection arc from so long ago.

  97. @brassai2003-Interesting indeed.  I don’t know if I agree though.  This revelation really does throw a big monkey wrench into what I thought was happening in Blackest Night and in this book.  Heres to hoping G-Mo drops some knowledge next issue.

  98. The whole "vote to see Batman & Robin naked" scene put a smirk on my face. Obviously, there was nod made to death of Robin phone/vote. Quite funny actually.

  99. @thevision – i was totally going to throw that into my previous post. Morrison turning to his M.O.  – "hey let me confuse everybody and they’ll think i’m genius" bit. Just came off so badly here. I’m curious, mind you, but not enthralled.

  100. i bet if Quitely was drawing this everyone would call it brilliant.

  101. If your pre-adoloscent partner has been paralyzed, do you really say, "He was shot at close range five times Commisioner.  He’s in a bad way.  BUT ROBIN’S A TOUGH KID, RIGHT?"


  102. If Quitely had drawn this it would have brilliant.

  103. Alright. So can someone please clarify the end to this issue? I didnt read any batman before #1 of this series, so I have no idea where Bruce really is, what the significant is of what Jason said as he was arrested, and what the deal was with Dick saying "Zur en arr" and looking at that batman costume.

  104. @JaqueNarqq: I am curious too about the Zur En Arr..

  105. @Jaque: Apparently Bruce’s real body (holding a batarang) was preserved in some vault. "Zur En Arrh" is apparently the password to open this vault. Dick’s apparently retrieving Bruce’s body so they can throw it in a Lazarus Pit (like Jason said) to try to revive it.

    "Zur En Arrh" means other things too in the previous Morrison run, but you don’t really need to know about that stuff right now. It’s probably just a convenient password for Dick to use in the vault.

    As to what the connection with Blackest Night is, I don’t know. There’s no way to tell when this takes place yet or anything. The skull that Black Hand has been holding…maybe that isn’t Bruce’s real skull. Or maybe this all takes place AFTER Bruce’s skull is maybe retrieved in Blackest Night #6 or whatever

  106. If that was Bruce, then Tan did worse than even I thought. It looked like just another Batman costume. The impact of this arc was completely squandered.

  107. Hope the last couple of pages gets explained, but I’m still waiting for RIP to be explained, so I’m not holding my breath. I liked the issue, though. I thought the whole arc was pretty good, not sure why this only has a 3.2 rating (?) … maybe the art (which I don’t hate).

  108. Wait that cant be Bruce’s body at the end! At least not physically….Darkseid burned it to a crisp!

    Plus I can’t believe Morrison would be crapping on Geoff Johns for basically screwing him at an important plot point. Dick, Damien, and others seemed to be really upset when Bruce’s grave was disturbed. Why would they be that upset if they are holding the actually body in a batcave?

  109. I know it’s been said but I’ll say it anyway. The art in this book F’ING SUCKED!!!!!!!!!

  110. The art was great in this issue and the dialogue was fantastic.



  111. I just read this. The art was appalling. truely terrible. I hope DC never puts Tan on another high profile comic. There must dozens of artists at DC that deserved to be place on a title with this much exposure instead of Tan.

    Very very disappointing

  112. @TNC-There was a skeleton left over after Darkseid hit it, that is what was supposed to be shone.  Tan just did a bad job showing that.  And I’m not sure why you think it’s Morrison "crapping" on Geoff Johns.

  113. @TNC-Johns said that he has spoken extensively with Morrison about how Final Crisis, B&R and Blackest Night line up.

  114. @drake: I’m just addressing if people thought that Bruce’s body was fine after Final Crisis. Your right (and I knew it too) that it was just a skeleton. I also dont think Tan did a bad job of showing this hallucination at the end (if it is that). Maybe Dick is seeing Bruce just as Batman and not his skeleton form.

    I also just ment that if Morrison has changed his mind and Bruce isnt a skeleton. Then that kinda craps on what Johns is doing right now on Blackest Night. But @gnanniv is right, Johns and Morrison has talked about this whole set up for DC.

  115. I thought the art in this was shite. Tan’s 1st issue wasn’t so so bad. 2nd was meh, but this was wildly inconcistent on top of just being bad. Furthermore, Tan just outright ignored the Grayson costume changes (at least to the gloves) as I just now noticed since this may have been the 1st clear shot of that part of his costume in 3 issues.

    And this isn’t Tan’s fault (but what the heck, let’s blame him anyway just for kicks), but did anyone else notice what looked to be an unerased coloring note? It’s on the page where Bats looks very photo "referenced" from Christian Bale and has the cowl come up onto his chin, talking to the now skunk line-less Jason Todd and the next panel is a head and shoulders shot of Batman, now looking completely different from the previous panel, or any other panel in the past 3 issues, now missing the chin-covering. It’s on the left side, looks like penciled hand-writing that says, "*Colors (something) Loft (left?) BG" </nitpick>

    Why were Batman & Robin so non-chalant about the Robin’s paralysis? I assume the League of Assassins will fix him up real nice, but A) Barbara’s wondering where they were when she took a shot throught the spine and B) Wouldn’t Dick be more concerned than just going, "Ya okay, pal? Cool. Hey, fuck you Jason. Get him Magi-cops w/ teleportation abilities! Hey, just checking in on ya, paralyzed 10 year old step brother."

  116. @captbastrd- What’s this about a costume change? I don’t follow …

    & I don’t think Damien is actually paralyzed, his cape would be bullet proof, right? Maybe a round just hit some nerves that temporarily disabled his legs? I’m talking in comic-terms of course, not medical terms. lol.

    Why are people talking about the last page like it *IS* Bruce’s body, did someone talk to Grant Morrison? If not — it could be anything. 

  117. @WadeWilson

    I know he’s not, but he says, "I’m paralyzed" and Dick’s like, "*shrugs* Lemme deal w/ this red-headed fuckwit while you bleed profusely from the fucking SPINE!"

    I said to you over Twitter what I meant w/ the costume; 1: Tan partially ignored Quitely’s redesign of the gloves: (2 cuffs w/ adjacent fins, Tan did it like the regular Bruce/skin tight gloves but w/ only 2 fins, unlike Bruce’s usual 3) 2: was that he has a chin guard for one panel. Nitpicky as fuck, but it’s still true, ye who would defend Philip Tan’s art!

  118. Im just assuming his mommy’s great surgeons can fix him.  Or a dip in the Lazarus Pit.  Don’t the pits also heal people? 

  119. I’m caring less and less each issue. Its like every writer is going "Oh Shit time to up our game" and they have! Dini, Miller and Daniels are kicking ass on their books but this is just meh. It’s not the art, I like Tan’s work fine, its just the writing doesn’t grab me and I’m feeling like maybe it might be time to drop this just like I dropped Batman after Batman and Son. Morrison is awesome he just isn’t awesome on Batman. I really should have read this before Batman 693 and Batgirl 4 methinks.

  120. @drakedangerz – how can you just give a free pass on the paralysis thing?!  Call me crazy, but getting shot in the spine and saying you are paralyzed should be SERIOUS, no matter what comic book.  If Morrison wants him disabled for the rest of the battle fine, (he shot me in the leg Batman!) but he’s the one who insists on saying Robin is paralyzed.

    I like Morrison but it amazes me how his supporters will accept ANYTHING (I’m not saying that is you drakedangerz, btw) he puts on the page.  Dick more worried about Bruce and the escaping villains than his paralyzed partner is really off-key for Dick Grayson who has ALWAYS been more humanist and less vigilante than Bruce.  This is not the behavior of an orphan.

  121. Just to show some balance, I was really moved by the page where Scarlet leaves Gotham and the face peels off.  That was really well done, and in fact, the whole Professor Pyg / Scarlet storyline was fantastic.

  122. @Urthona – So what is the correct behavior of an orphan? And just to show some balance, I liked Tan when wasn’t fucking up the best book DC was putting out.

  123. Yeah, Johns and Morrison are on the same page. DC editorial just has a poor habit of letting us know which book occurs when in relation to the other books. Then when they DO try to establish an order–like Didio did at some convention regarding the reading order of FC and RIP–they screw it up.

    The only thing we can tell from the last page is that the batsuit isn’t empty. There’s something inside it. It may be Bruce’s skeleton from the end of Final Crisis–that’s just an educated guess, because the previous time we saw Dick, Jason was asking him why he doesn’t just throw Bruce’s remains in a Lazarus Pit.

    It’s supposed to be a mystery, y’know? Unfortunately, there’s more mystery than was probably intended because of the editorial silence. Like, do we really think the point of this last page would be to provoke readers to call foul?: "Hey, we already saw Bruce’s skull in Blackest Night?! So what’s THIS NOW?!?!" Mysteries like that take readers out of the story and get us angry with editoral. It would be solved with a simple "* This story takes place before/after Blackest Night" would quell all that ire, and we’d still be left with the in-story mysteries of what Dick is actually doing.

  124. @Urthona-Who says I’m giving it a free pass?  We don’t know what his condition is.  Just because Damian says he is paralyzed, doesn’t mean he really is.  It’s impossible to tell how serious his injuries are until we find out in the next issue.

  125. Considering who we see in the cover of the next issue. I have a feeling Damien is gonna be out of the picture for awhile.

  126. @flapjaxx – Johns said that BN was the last thing to take place this year in the DCU. But whether or not that holds true is still anyone’s guess.

  127. Blackest Knight…heh.

  128. Yeah, I’m going with the idea this story takes place BEFORE Blackest Night because at the end of the issue it says, "Coming Up: Blackest Night."  The thing is though, Black Hand took Bruce’s skull out of a grave, not a vault, so IDK.  Maybe Judd Winick’s run where they bury Bruce’s body takes place after this arc as well?

    It’s prolly best to just wait and see what happens in January rather then making a bunch of silly assumptions, but some theories on DCcomics dot com’s message boards are a lil interesting.

  129. It says Blackest Knight not Night.

  130. Too… many… comments.

  131. didn’t do much for me…..perhaps it’s because I started reading at the end of an arc. I’ll give issue #7 a try.

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