The iFanboy Letter Column – 02.18.2011

Friday means many things to many people. For some, Friday means it’s wing night. For others, Friday means cake. For yet more, Friday is just another day when you stumble out into the world, desperately groping around in the darkness for just a little human compassion.

At iFanboy, Friday means it’s letter column time.

You write. We answer. Very simple.

As always, if you want to have your e-mail read on the any of our shows or answered here, keep them coming — contact@ifanboy.com


With Con Season starting up, I was thinking about starting a sketch book. Turns out there are so many different kinds (page counts, binding, paper weights, etc) I just couldn’t decide, so I just left. Just wondering if you guys could point me in the right direction. I just want to get whatever would make the artist most comfortable. So my question is what kind of sketchbook is the best to start with?

Sean

This is actually a good question that I don’t believe can be definitively answered though. It’s very considerate of you to be thinking of the artist and getting a sketchbook that would make them the most comfortable, but honestly, as long as there’s paper to draw on, I don’t think it really matters. I’ve seen comic artists draw on everything from fancy, expensive sketchbooks, to the back of cardboard boxes to tablecloths to a comic book backing board. As long as it’s a relatively flat surface, they can draw on it. I’ve also never seen an artist at a con reject a particular type of sketchbook over another. So while it’s nice of you to consider them, don’t get too caught up in what they want.

With that said, it really falls to you and the type of book you want. I’ve seen some people with smaller sketchbooks, because they’re easier to pack and carry to the cons. Me? I prefer a full size, 8.5″ x 11″ sketchbook because I want to have big/full pieces in my sketchbook. So it really does vary. If you go to any art supply store, you’ll see sketchbooks ranging in size and format, from hardcover bound to spiral bound etc. Again it’s your preference, but those hardcover bound books sure do look classy, while spiral bound is way easier to rip out of the book for later framing. One thing you do want to make sure is that you’re getting a book with blank paper (no lines or rules or anything) and that the paper stock is fairly thick, since some artists at cons will be sketching with Sharpies and that ink can bleed through thin paper. From a brand standpoint, Strathmore and Moleskine are two companies that make great sketchbooks and if you can’t find them at a local art supply store, then you should be able to order one online easily.

Ultimately, find a sketchbook that you like, one that you’d be proud to carry around at the cons. If you do that, then I’m sure you’ll be set to fill it with sketches and have a great con season. Good luck!

Ron Richards


 

Like one of your recent voice-mail callers I took a long hiatus from reading comics, getting back in about a decade ago. At that time a friend of mine who lured me back into fold got me up to speed on what I had missed in the DCU.

It went something like this,

“Batman?” I asked. “His back was broken — but he got better,” he replied.
“Robin” “One quit, one died, and so now there is another one.”
“Batgirl?” “Paralyzed.”
“Green Lantern?” “He’s dead.”
“Green Arrow?” “Dead.”
“Flash?” “Also dead.”
“Aquaman?” “Lost his family, his kingdom and his hand.”
“Superman?” “Dead, but he got better.”
“Supergirl” “Dead, but there is sort of a new one.”
“Wonder Woman?” “Dead, but it looks like she is coming back.”
“Hawkman?” “I can’t even explain Hawkman. I don’t think anybody can.”

It has been a decade so most of these answers are moot. Except of course Hawkman.

My question, yes there is one here. With the resurrection cycle of Blackest Night/Brightest Day more or less played out who has been revived that should have been left dead, and who if anyone, is still DOA that should have been given another shot.

Trip

Your friend is correct. No one can explain Hawkman.

I’m going to take your first question to mean who was resurrected in Blackest Night, specifically, that should not have. It’s quicker than looking up everyone who has been resurrected recently and I’m a busy man. In Blackest Night, the following characters were brought back to life: Maxwell Lord, Professor Zoom, Jade, Hawk, Captain Boomerang, Firestorm, the Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Deadman, and Osiris.

Okay, right away I see a problem. That’s a really good list of resurrections.

Maxwell Lord? He’s a badass villain in Justice League: Generation Lost. Professor Zoom and Captain Boomerang? Doing the same in The Flash. Aquaman? He’s one of my favorite characters so of course he should have been resurrected. Hawkman and Hawkgirl? Sure, they are problematic, continuity-wise, but they are pillars of the DCU. Deadman? A cult classic. Martian Manhunter? One of the great all-time DC characters who has been totally squandered post-resurrection. Jade and Hawk and Firestorm and Osiris… uh… um… okay. Well, this would be the second tier of the list, wouldn’t it? I like Jade and Firestorm, as apathetic as I am towards him, is a seminal Justice League member. That leaves Hawk and Osiris. Hawk? I have absolutely no feelings for, and have actively disliked, Hawk at times. Osiris? He was interesting for a while during 52. So… Hawk. No! Osiris. No… okay, I’ll flip a coin. Heads: Hawk, Tails: Osiris.

*flips coin*

It’s heads! Hawk it is. He shouldn’t have been resurrected.

I was about to throw that nickel back into the bowl of loose change I keep by my front door but then I remembered you had a second question. Which currently dead character deserves a resurrection? First, I was tempted to say Jean-Paul Valley solely so that, immediately upon resurrection, someone could stab him in the heart and send him right back down to Hell. Then I was tempted to say Ted Kord or Ralph Dibney but as much as I like those characters I think that their deaths still have value and poignancy in the current DCU. Their time will come soon enough. So I’m going to say The New Gods. All of them. New Genesians and Apoklaypsians alike. High Father. Darkseid. Orin. Desaad. Everyone. I think the DCU is a far poorer place without them. You almost always knew that when The New Gods arrived in a story that some serious shit was about to go down. I also miss that Kirby influence in the DCU. Less Kirby is always worse than more Kirby.

I guess I didn’t need that nickel after all.

Conor Kilpatrick


I came to a realization today. Why are they still putting a small preview in the back of comics? After all the “Holding the Line” and trimming books down on story pages, why are they still wasting paper in the back? The 5 page Batman & Robin preview that showed up in the back of The Flash #9 was also made available online and is easy to find on almost any comic news website.

Don’t you think their money would be better spent putting those previews in other periodicals outside of comics? I feel that the big two should focus on getting new readers, and not just trying to get their current readers to buy every book.

Also, with the vast amounts of money and resources that Disney and Warner Bros has at their hands why haven’t they been actively involved in advertising to gather up new readers? Maybe putting a 5 page preview in Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue (both owned by Time Warner) or the summer blockbuster issue of Entertainment Weekly (both owned by Time Warner)? My first thought would be to advertise using the same medium as the product itself. As a non-print comic ad would probably do little to entice new readers to monthly issues.

Obviously getting people to see comic based movies is not an issue or buy comic based video games, but yet each year sales of issues are dropping month after month?

I can only hope that the majority of new comic readers are jumping on digitally because I haven’t seen any new faces at my LCS.

Bryan

Oh Bryan, I am going to burst the hell out of your bubble here. This is a question that we see a lot, in various forms. I don’t have any inside knowledge in terms of figures, but anecdotally, I have a pretty good understanding of costs and how media work, and to be honest, what you’re suggesting makes almost no financial sense at all.

The cost of producing a comic book page is considerable. Most of that cost is above the line, not necessarily printing. You’re paying an artist, inker, colorist, letterer, and writer a page rate. The more popular the artist, the higher the page rate. So five pages of comic production is going to cost thousands of dollars. You’re also paying staff overhead at a company like DC. There’s an editor, an assistant editor, publicity team, production staff, and all the management folks. They all have offices and office supplies, and health insurance. Reprinting five pages of something that was already commissioned for another book, especially in hopes of further promoting and trying to recoup the costs spent is far more cost effective than coming up with brand new original material, and other than the cost of making those comics a few pages longer, doesn’t cost them a dime.

Putting that same preview in Sports Illustrated, the swimsuit issue no less, would cost more money than most comics make in profit in the first place. People never seem to get that. From my conversations with people in the industry, other than a few breakout hits, the profit margins are incredibly thin. A mid-list book that sells 30,000 copies is barely making its money back. A five figure ad buy in a major media outlet is going to net them neither jack nor squat. Yes, Time Warner owns those magazines, but by eating up five pages on a comic very few would actually go and buy, they’re losing precious and crucial revenue from actual paying sponsors, not to mention that the magazine world is clawing and scraping to get by in general. It doesn’t make any business sense at all.

This is not the same as a book from, say Image Comics. They have a staff of 11. The creators are not paid before the fact, but based on the sales of the book. For the most part, those creators are doing the work pro bono, and the scary thing is, most of them aren’t making much money at all. Still, if you were to sell 30,000 copies of a book at Image, you’d be Robert Kirkman, and you’d be living the high-life out in Kentucky. But they’re different business models entirely.

We often hear complaints that these major corporations don’t spend their big money promoting comics. And the fact is, they don’t. It’s not worth it to them. Look back at the best selling comics in the last few years, and very few of them pushed over 100,000 copies. The profits simply aren’t worth the time, money, and effort of said corporation. Disney would be better suited spending 50K on promoting their DVD’s of Iron Man 2 than pushing comics that no one is going to buy. Iron Man and The Dark Knight are two of the most ubiquitous films of the last decade, and due to the nature of the direct market, the cost of comics, and the public’s perception of what a comic book is all about, the movies effectively pushed almost zero people into reading comics on a regular basis. You could not buy a better ad for an Iron Man comic book than those two Iron Man movies. Just a slight amount of trickle down should have pushed Iron Man comics to the top of the sales list. And maybe it moved some trades, but at best, the needle jumped, and settled back down, only slightly higher than before, and has returned to middling when all was said and done. Disney didn’t buy Marvel to make comic books. They bought the movie studio that came along with a mildly profitable comic book publisher. Those advertising dollars are going to be used to promote the movies.

I love comic books. They are literally my life. If I were in charge of Disney or Time Warner, I wouldn’t waste my money either. Comics advertise to themselves, because that’s who they can afford to advertise to.

There are big problems. The industry is shedding readers left and right. Why? Lots of reasons, but I think it’s primarily because they keep producing product for their existing and shrinking audience. That means that in order to churn out new readers, they’re going to have to change who they’re targeting. But their existing audience loathes change, and they’re scared to lose them, because very few of the experiments to get different audiences have succeeded. So the circle continues. It’s a big challenge for the folks at the top. In the meantime, all we can do is keep pointing you at the good stuff.

Josh Flanagan

Comments

  1. “You could not buy a better ad for an Iron Man comic book than those two Iron Man movies. Just a slight amount of trickle down should have pushed Iron Man comics to the top of the sales list.”

    That is true so far and sad. But it wouldn’t have hurt for Marvel to try something. Like give away a comic book with the sale of a ticket or something. They tried pretty much nothing. That’s a problem there in my opinion. They never tried.

  2. Nice response Josh.

  3. @Josh – That was done as gently and honestly as possible.  Well done.

  4. One of the bigger reasons that they are using all the space at the back for previews is that comic pages have to be laid out and printed in multpiples of eight pages at a time. So the reduction in stories from 22 to 20 pages didn’t actually shrink the physical book. They’d need to remove another six pages of ads to actually use less paper.

  5. @JNewcomb  You ever watch the extras on any of the Marvel DVD’s? They are festooned with comic book artwork and talent. Joe Casey, Joe Quesada, Stan Lee, more and more, all accompanied by tons of artwork, and talking about the comics. It’s there. It didn’t work.

  6. Here’s the thing about wasting space with previews…its not. Printing is complicated but its actually possible to save money and waste less paper by printing more pages which is what comic publishers are doing.

     

    Without getting TOO technical and using industry jargon, Comics are printed on big commercial printing presses that use giant sheets of paper or rolls. View each comic page as a “panel”. A  pre press machine figures out the order, mixes it all up and the entire issue is laid out seemingly out of order, panel by panel side by side front and back on the giant sheet of paper. One sheet of paper = one issue, unless its a roll (web press) and then its just a section of that roll. Its then printed, folded up, trimmed down on 3 sides, and somehow almost by magic you have a fully paginated and assembled comic book that just needs staples….and the entire process is practically automated. 

     

    Even if they cut back on comic content pages you still need to fill those panels on the form (large sheet of paper) or else you have blank pages in your comic and are truly wasting paper.  In printing the biggest cost is paper,  so the previews are just filling in the space that is lost with cutting content pages. Its irresponsible to have a lot of trim waste paper, so you want to fill up those forms with as much stuff as you can so its really better to print more and throw out less.

  7. I for one say that the comic industry needs to embrace and somehow use sites like Ifanboy to their benifit. I read comics back in 1995 and stopped. Just this year I got back in (I have roughly 7-8 books a week at my local comic shop) and 90 percent of it was finding Ifanboy from Revision3 (totaly rad show mentioned you guys). I watched a few of the shows and was like “man I really want to get back in and these guys are telling me exactly what to buy andd what to avoid…..AND THEIR FUNNY”. So props to you guys and shame for the comic industry not using it to their advantage.

  8. @josh  I’m not sure it is entirely fair to say it didn’t work, because we don’t have a true counterfactual.  It is possible that what little advertising they have done has actually help.  In other words, the drop in readership might have been even worse without it.  I’d probably say it didn’t work as well as we would’ve liked.

    Regardless, your point stands.

  9. Batman Begins and especially The Dark Knight is what made me get back into comics for the first time since the early 1990s, and I’ve been buying four or five issues a week since.  I also know a few heads who are picking up Walking Dead Weekly with their pull lists now after viewing the first season of the television series, so it does happen.

  10. There is no way to get more comic book readers (paper not digital) without getting comic books out of book stores and LCSs, you need them in Libraries, Grocery Stores and places kids sit and wait.

    They need to move on from paper and they are starting but they need to do more, put codes in videogames, movie tickets, tv shows, action figures, toys and anything that has the word MARVEL or DC on it that give free comics, make farmville like games (puked a lil in my mouth there) and with purchase of loot and time commitment offer more comics and offer more loot in game for buying comics. Finally make sure when you’re giving away comics aim for as many cliffhangers and grabby number 1s as possible.

    They need to put all their streams of revenue feeding into each other in a circular pattern. Toys feed to games and comics, comics feed to games, games feed back to comics and movies feed back to comics and games so and so forth. Marvel in particular has the diversity and control to do this exceedingly well.

  11. there is the other factor here that maybe the comics medium is flawed and slowly dying a natural death. When my dad was a kid it was very very common to built model kits, toy soldiers etc. Now that whole hobby is extremely niche. Its just the wave of pop culture moved that way. Its possible, that comics as we know them might be on their way out. 

  12. Someone explain to me how Comicon can be so big, getting main stream media coverage and hit shows like Big Bang Theory yet comics are still suffering?

  13. @wallythegreenmonster  

    Isn’t Warhammer a natural evolution of that? Shops that sell things like Warhammer and similar seem to do pretty well.

    Perhaps Comics will evolve into something else, too. What it will, be, I can’t say.

  14. @stuclach  I mean to say, there well could have, and probably was, some sort of positive effect on sales numbers somewhere, but it doesn’t seem to have been lasting, and it didn’t seem to fan out to help other comics on the stands.

  15. @josh  Agreed.

  16. @robbydzwonar  coming “back” to comics isn’t the same thing as creating new readers. It’s good that it happened one way or another.

  17. @TheGoddamnDeadpool  –thats a good point..it basically is the same thing but even from what i understand that business is a fraction of what it was 10-30 years ago. I guess my point is that hobbies have their pinacles…maybe comics already had theirs?

    @spaceghost15  –not everyone who goes to comicon is there for comics. Plus i mean there are a few hundred thousand comic readers which is a lot in and of itself…but compared to the whole population and/or scope of publishing its very small. Sometimes its not about strategy and marketing. Sometimes its just about the product having a very small niche audience that can’t really be changed. 

  18. @spaceghost15  People like to dabble in the culture, but that’s not the same as going out and getting books. The reasons they don’t do buy and read comics are myriad and decades in the making.

  19. @wallythegreenmonster  @josh  I see what your saying. It’s jsut really tough to wrap my head around comic culture and IP’s being main stream but comics failing. (comicon, big bang theory, every single big name comic getting a movie, walking dead, etc etc etc) I like digital comics as a supliment to my comic reading but there is just something awesome about going weekly and getting floppies (and I still get there every week and I have a wife, kid and two jobs)

  20. I brought a brand new sketchbook to NYCC. when I handed it to the first creator I had a chance to hand it to, Rick Remender, I just happened to give him the right furthest page, if that makes sense. basically, in a western book, the last page, so my sketchbook goes from the back to the front. it was kinda amusing seeing several guys struggle with getting the right next page. one artist, Clay Mann, I think actually asked me where I was from, assuming I would say a country that reads right to left. imagine his surprise when I said New Hampshire.

    the point of this anecdote is, Sean, it really makes no difference to them. 

  21. @spaceghost15- the properties are mainstream because of TV and film, never because of comics. I have heard numerous people consider “the original Batman” to be the Adam West TV show. you may then ask, how the properties ended up on TV and in film in the first place. well, the people who make those decisions know, at least objectively, what we all already know. and that is that comics have birthed many wonderful ideas.

  22. good stuff josh.  that was a nice concise version of whats up with the comic industry. 

  23. Seriously I keep saying this but I really think the only way to reach new readers is buy putting comics where people will see them. I mean did I buy my first comics at a comic shop? No! My mom bought them for me at a GROCERY STORE, and then I started buying more at 7-11’s until I finally discovered a LCS not too far from my house. Im sure theres are all sorts of factors that go into this and its more complicated than Im making it sound, but DC and Marvel really need to push in this direction

  24. @DarkKnightDetective  It’s not DC and Marvel’s decision to NOT be in grocery stores and 7-11s and news stands. Those places dropped comics; comics didn’t drop them.

  25. @ Josh and @JNewcomb  There were stacks of Iron Man comics, made specifically to be handed out, at the two theatres where I saw the first movie.  Didnt work.

  26. Everything Josh said is totally true. He hit the nail on the head as to all of the industry issues. Very well summed up. And as he’s pointed out in comments. This isn’t anything new. It’s decades in the making. We’re simply at point X of a long, long cycle of pop culture. It’s not just comic books. All things in societal culture change over time. When I was a kid, collecting sports cards was popular. Today, not even in the slightest. You think the number of comic book shops has dropped over the past decade? Ha. I’m not even sure sports cards shop exist any longer. Most had to start selling Pokemon cards to stay afloat. And that was 10 years ago.

    Things change. Society changes. Getting upset over that is silly.

    You can say that the publishers are too afraid to try anything new that would alienate their current shrinking readership. But that’s exactly the thing. They can’t do that. Because there isn’t a big enough potential new audience to replace what they already have. However small it may be. Pretty much your only option in today’s societal culture is if you stop everything you’re doing and do nothing but Justin Bieber comics.

    We live in a culture where not only are most adults too cool to bother with a nerdy comic book. But also where most people flat out don’t read. Where 95% of kids today have ADD and couldn’t sit down and focus on any one thing for 15 minutes to save their life. You think it’s just comic books? Just wait another generation. BOOKS themselves will be a dying artform. At that point, will book readers be doing what comic book fans are now? Trying to fight a losing battle? Or will they simply understand the societal shift and realize that they are now a niche and sit back and enjoy the things they love?

    I get why this is constantly a topic of discussion. People who run these sites, and who’s careers rely on the industry are bothered about it. As are the fans who are afraid of the thing they love going away or being damaged. But at a certain point, there is nothing more to say about it than to constantly complain and worry. IMHO, at some point, we as a readership/blogosphere/media need to learn to just let it all be. Let what happens, happen. Comics are a niche market. This is what they are in today’s society. And I highly doubt anything is going to change in the near future.

    We can all constantly worry, gripe, and argue about why comics aren’t taken more seriously. But the exact same could be said for any other niche market that gets ignored by the mindless masses of consumption. Be it foreign/independent films or bands that aren’t able to find a big audience. Or a tv show that is great and gets poor ratings and is destined for a quick cancelation. There are MANY things in our current culture that are of superior entertainment and artistic quality that get ignored by the crowds that eat up things like Vampires Suck, Justin Bieber, Tyler Perry movies, Larry the Cable Guy, and Teen Mom. 

    Just like comics, there are less indie films being funded and made due to the fact that they don’t sell like a Transformers movie. There are less scripted dramas on tv being made because reality shows get better rating and are cheaper to make. It totally sucks that it’s the way the world we live in is. But it’s the way it is.

    Comics are no different than Friday Night Lights. Both great things generally ignored by the public. And it’s just a fact of life. We like something that few people do. As was the case with Friday Night Lights. You can complain about why things are the way they are, or you can sit back and enjoy the good things when you get them. So much of all of this is entirely out of all of our control. Hell, it’s almost even out of the people in charge’s control. I wish as a readership we could all take a page from Tom Katers’ manifesto, and simply enjoy the comics we get.

  27. Regarding sketchbooks: One thing I’ve learned being an art major is you can be a nerd about anything. We’re intense about our tools and I’ve talked shop about sketchbooks on multiple occasions. Color, weight, tooth… different brands are like talking about types of cars or guitars. People love them like a baby and can be fiercely loyal. But… those are OUR sketchbooks. The things we’ll be caring around day in and day out, filling with our thoughts, storing and someday showing to our progeny.  When you’re getting sketches… that’s YOUR sketchbook for art that YOU will be keeping, so consider the size and weight under that lens. As Ron mentioned, artists can sketch on anything, no big.

    Otherwise, it’s purely practical so consider the following: There are perfect (glued spine) bound books, but anything with a spine may have a problem opening flat without breaking said spine. Broken spine means lost pages, so if you want something more substantial try that out at the store. On the other hand, spiral bound books are more prone to pages ripping out with continual use. If you want to be able to remove artwork though, that may be a plus. I know I said it’s up to you, but don’t get a weird page color. They’re going to primarily be using black pens and markers. Get a page count to fit your use. If you’re buying a quality book to keep across multiple cons, larger count. If it will only hold up for (or if you only want it for) one event, then don’t waste your money on something overly large. I would try to buy one in person so that you weigh these options and actually feel and flip through the book yourself. If you do that there won’t be any surprises and you’ll be good to go.

  28. My gut tells me j206 is right – but do we know that for sure?  Has there ever been an honest, large-scale attempt to understand the underlying reasons for the decline of comics?  I have lots of hunches and theories, but no research to point to.  Does it exist?  If it didn’t, would it not be a worthwhile undertaking?  

  29. @stuclach Are you playing a Keynsian today?

  30. The hard truth is both sides of the coin, readers and non readers alike, are hurting the industry.

    The obvious point first.  Comics are still considered nerdy.  The thing is, besides your former soriety girl bartender and your obnoxious former captain of the football team boss, (is it obvious i have contempt for the popular kids from high school), most people have atleast a minimal interst in comic characters (or atleast the ones that are on Tv and Film). 
    The problem is the interst does not extend any further than A) Asking a comic reader about a character or B) Wiki-ing the character.
    From here where do we go? I can lead a horse to water by loaning out issues and trades, but does it make it drink?   In my opinion, the only solution is to just continue reading, and not keeping it a secret.

    Next up – Us, The readers.
    Josh, what you said above is true, readers are scared of change.  We like what works, and as silly as it is to do this, im going to quote the dark knight.  “You either Die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.”  What i mean to say is, some writers/artists fit their characters like a glove.  But eventually, no matter how much itd pain us to see them go, those writers/artists have to move on.  Because if they run out of good story, we’ll drop the book.  
    The same can be said about the other option, the writer/artist leaves and many of their readers go with them. 

    If we want to see the comic industry grow, it is up to us!  We need to have faith and try new things.  We need to try those issues by new comers.  Try new characters, new teams, new brands.  I’m not saying read an entire series just to support the industry, read what you like, but KNOW if you like it or not. 
    I might sound like a broken record by now, but thats how i feel. 
    …but that’s just me.

  31. @josh
    Hey thanks for responding to my question. I seem to have sparked some dialog.
    Publishing is one thing I know very little about (and grammar). I guess I never thought of them trimming two pages, that the creative teams behind them would possibly be getting a tenth less pay per issue. I don’t seem to remember that coming up in any of the press releases.

    I guess the smartest thing Marvel ever did was to include issues with each figure from the Marvel Legends toy line. I guess thats the best way to get floppies into new readers hands. 

    @devinclancy I guess I never did the math to figure out that losing those two pages would actually really mean droping six additonal pages. So they are basically filling them in with extra ads.

    I just wish they would take a more active intrest in getting new readers. 

  32. @itsbecca  great advise. very good points.

  33. Comic book movies don’t boost sales of comic books. They boost sales of licensed merchandise based on that movie. Kids who went to see Spider-Man in the theater didn’t leave and go buy spidey comics. they bought Spide-Man action figures, Spider-Man halloween costumes, and Spider-Man bed sheets. comics are now a very niche commodity appealing to a very small segment of the population. Most comics aren’t appropriate for kids, but they have a stigma of being an entertainment that is FOR kids. Not a good combination.

  34. Interesting points about societal changes. It makes me think of Japan and Europe where comic books are more deeply ingrained in the culture, do not have stigma attached to them and sell better.

    Thanks a lot Wertham. You murdered comic books you dick!

  35. @zombox  That sounded almost Krugman-esk, didn’t it.

    (I’ve heard the counterfactual argument used to support and refute Keynes many, many times.  We need more and better data [As always.])

  36. @JohnVFerrigno  agree.comics are in a very weird spot in entertainment.

  37. @everybody

    Is it possible that the broad decline in comic book sales is a good thing?

    You hear (or say) all the time how there’s a lot of cruff to sift through to find the good stuff. I think it would be more of a problem if all the good stuff died out and only the crap remained. But that hasn’t happened. Instead there seems to be an ebb and flow. Some good years, some bad, Some good again, some bad again.

    Look, maybe the industry just can’t string out the fantasy of being bigger and more mainstream any longer. Maybe it’s best as a niche. Maybe it has to be. And you all know bookstores of all kinds are dying around the country. Not just LCSs. Borders is closing hundreds of locations. Barnes & Noble is headed there too. And, I’m sorry, but if comic creators started to do direct distribution themselves and say screw you to Diamond and adopt an indie music mindset (a la radiohead or no idea records or suburban home or third man records, etc.), I think that would refreshing. If digital has done one good thing above any, it has shone how little middlemen matter in disseminating information to the masses.

    (At least Amazon is doing a pretty good job of stocking lots of reading. I wouldn’t be surprised if somewhere on their whiteboard someone wrote comic monthlies as a prospective addition to their magazine subscription division. They already have a basic backend for managing subscriptions. Who knows, we might see something from them. Probably starting with Kindle. (From which they may hear a “surprising” number of people demanding the paper option.)

    That being said, we dabbled in the dream of having practically anyone who reads anything to be seen publicly reading and discussing comics. But that’s just not happening. Comics have always had a kind of underground, deprecated quality. That’s kind of what made them so great. Spotlighting the outcasts. The freaks. Creating a “refuge” or whatever. For decades comics have been a pretty amazing distillation of sociological material. Fringe form or otherwise. But apart from Hollywood doing its thing with bringing the bizarre to widespread international attention, I don’t know if comics will ever have or have ever had a real shot at becoming what some have believed they could be (if they only had the serious money that the movies keep stealing (because they’ve taken their ideas and they’re not sharing the spoils.)

    I don’t think they will ever go away. I think there will be another so-called renaissance where sales rocket 20-30-40% year on year. Either because of digital or some title(s) went viral because Justin Bieber or Gaga Monsters or whoever is gung-ho on something. But, realistically, we may be a vocal minority, in which we may feel less stupid asking non-comically-inclined ladyfriends if they like The Walking Dead, but we’re still a minority in the basement of another minority’s house – that minority being James Patterson and Danielle Steele fans. Or just long-form book readers in general, who are also spending small change in comparison to monthly cable TV 😉

  38. ^^ *shone? shown.

  39. @JohnVFerrigno  – Most comics aren’t appropriate for kids, but they have a stigma of being an entertainment that is FOR kids. Not a good combination.

    Excellent point. This is one of the major reasons for the dwindling readership of comics, IMO (though certainly not the only one).

  40. re: comic book sales… is it related to the fact that people don’t read ANYTHING so much nowadays? please, nobody mention Harry Potter///or God forbid those vampire books, yes, i know about all that but it doesn’t count even though they are surprisingly well written (Harry Potter), i’m talking about literature? …and it shows in the comics too, i was reading an old Secret Defenders comic yesterday and there was a reference to The Expedition of Humphry Clinker by Tobias Smollett [not that i’ve read that, but i am aware of it.]–nowadays we get references to internet trends and the latest gadgets. basically, i’m saying we are all doomed but probably we comicbook fans are less doomed than everyone else so we should stop complaining. and anyway, why haven’t there been any good string quartets written recently??? ok, ok there is Philip Glass but he is the exception. you see what i’m getting at–we are doomed.