A Death(s) in the Family!
Reports from Newsarama indicate that whatever happens to Batman at the end of this year’s “R.I.P.”, he’s taking Robin, Nightwing, and Birds of Prey with him. Not the characters, necessarily. But the extended family of Bat books are being canceled in February, 2009. While it’s still unclear just how “R.I.P.” is going to end, it’s obvious that there’s about to be a game of musical (handicap-accessible wheel) chairs in Gotham City. Does the cancellation of these books suggest a handing down of mantles? A shuffling of the status quo?
The best team of comic book commentators on the internet weighs in…
Conor Kilpatrick:
Much like Harvey Dent, I’m of two minds here.
On the one hand, it’s no secret that big changes were coming for the Batworld after “Batman R.I.P.” wrapped up. And it’s no secret that some of those changes were going to involve the books themselves. As an example, it has been rumored for a while that Robin was going to be renamed Batman & Robin. So this isn’t totally unexpected. And I’m not entirely convinced that this is a straight up cancellation of these books. If you look at the sales, I’d be shocked if Nightwing was flat-out canceled as it sells in the 50,000 range, which sadly, is pretty good these days. From a sales stand point I can see Birds of Prey being canceled. But again, I’m not sure that that is what we have going on here. I think they are closing out these books and launching some new ones to kick off this new era for Batman. It’s a reshuffling of the deck (chairs?), as it were.
On the other hand, this news is like a knife to my stomach.
Clearly, everyone who comes here regularly knows that I’m a big Batman fan, but it’s really the family books that have loved the most over these part few years. Robin has been coming out for 14 years, Nightwing for 12, and Birds of Prey (in various volumes) also for 12. These are books that have helped define and flesh out a world. Not only that, but much of the current richness in the Batuniverse is due to Chuck Dixon and the insane workload that he carried for so many years. He started all three of these books and I feel like the last vestiges of that New Golden Age of Batbooks is being cut away.
This also bothers me because I hate when long running books are ended and then (presumably in this case) relaunched. All three of these books numbered in the 100s (Robin was knocking on the door of 200) and that’s a rarity these days.
And then there’s the gnawing feeling in my stomach that I can’t shake. Everyone knows that Dan Didio has been gunning for Dick Grayson since Infinite Crisis, not seeing a need for him in the DC Universe. Josh has called Dick Grayson Didio’s “Spider-Man marriage.” I hate, hate, hate, HATE to be a comic book conspiracy theorist (mostly because comic book conspiracy theories are 99.9% ridiculously overblown), but I really hope that’s not the case here. I hope that Didio isn’t taking “R.I.P.” as an opportunity to finally take out Dick Grayson.
All I can do at this point is wait and see. DC is confirming or denying nothing beyond these cancelations. After “R.I.P.” ends there is supposed to be a month where no regular Batbooks come out (just some wrap up specials) and then after that we should have a better idea of what is really going on here.
Until then, it’s time for me to go fix a strong drink and raise my glass to Robin, Nightwing, Birds of Prey… and Chuck Dixon.
Paul Montgomery:
Mixed feelings on this one. While the cancellation of Nightwing is long, long overdue (as Ben Franklin said, house guests are like old fish or something), I was shocked to hear that Robin and Birds of Prey were on their way out as well.
I really didn’t expect Birds of Prey to be affected by “R.I.P.,” as Barbara Gordon’s association with the Bat Family has grown a little tenuous over the years, if only because she’s settled so firmly into the role of Oracle. I do hope that Babs will continue to flourish as an important character in the DCU, and that this specific cancellation isn’t an indication of any editorial disinterest. It’s clear that Tim and Dick will continue to struggle in the shadow of Bruce Wayne, Tim because he’s the current ward and Dick because he’s clearly unable to sustain a prominent role in the greater DC universe without associating with Batman or a team like the Titans or The Outsiders. Barbara has clearly evolved and Tim’s journey is just beginning, but Dick, it would seem, is fighting a losing battle with celebrity and legacy that we’ve seen destroy former child stars, time and time again. Truly, Dick is the Gary Coleman of the Bat Family.
The problem with Dick, as I see it, is that there are really two Dick Graysons. There’s Batman’s former Robin and then the leader of the Titans. He is almost equally defined as the heir apparent to the Batman legacy as well as the man we know as Nightwing. And those two statures are always going to clash. Because of the nature of the business, we will never see the end of the story. We will never see destiny as it was foretold. Dick may well become Batman next year, but the mantle will only go to him temporarily. Because Bruce Wayne is and always shall be the real, play-for-keeps Batman. Not Tim, nor Dick, nor Jason, nor Terry McGinnis will ever don the cowl for good. Dick, like the timeline of comics storytelling is treading water, gunning for a dangling carrot it will never get to taste. Because the story can’t end. Or else it’s over. Dick’s claiming the title of Batman is a certainty that’s always going to be just out of reach.
Unless, of course, he dies. I think it’s really sort of a “whichever comes first” scenario. Dick gets to move up in the world… or he dies. Whichever comes first. And if you like my logic, and you eliminate the possibility of moving up, that means he’s a goner. Wouldn’t you rather see him go out in a blaze of long overdue glory than languish?
Tim’s still young. Tim’s got a chance to do something with his life. And he will. Jason? Well. There’s no coming back for Jason. So I think we’re looking at a scuffle between Tim and Dick, but only for temporary control of the dynasty. I can’t imagine that this would ever be a permanent change in the roster, though I’m sure it’s going to leave some deep, deep scratches. Then again, who would have believed that Bucky would ever have stepped up the way he did. Of course, we don’t know how that story is going to end either.
There are so many directions in which “R.I.P.” could unfold, so many variables, that it’s impossible to guess how the new Bat Family is going to line up for their next group portrait. But of course, we’re gonna try, right?
Thoughts?
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Thoughts? Yes.
I hate these news.
I feel especially for Nightwing, which has been consistently great with the current team. A big surprise, since the book hasn’t been much interesting for years.
Ugh. 🙁
Stop hating on Dick, Montgomery.
I suspect Conor is right with this just being a shuffling around. Perhaps one, or both, will end up the focus of the Batman book. Any number of things could be going on here that doesn’t involve any deaths.
And although I haven’t been a fan since the Bill Willingham run, Robin #1 was my first DC book ever. I’m very sad to see it go. Makes me feel old in a weird way.
I don’t read these books, but can feel for the fans. Hopefully there will be a restructing and renaming only but they keep the creative teams together. Who knows. Chances are I will probably start reading at least one of the new books when they come out. Thats probably why they are doing it right? Get new readers?
What are the chances that we are seeing the tip of the iceberg? If you name something Final Crisis, you should expect it to have some serious ramifications. Maybe DC is resetting big chunks of it’s universe. (I think that would be really dumb, but….)
I’m excited with this news and can’t wait to see exactly what the changes will be. I feel like it’s time for the bat-family to get refocused and this looks like what they are doing. Until then, I will be drinking some Samuel Adams-Winter Lager.
Exciting and kind of a bummer since I have only gotten into these books for the past year. I am looking forward to going back to all the Chuck Dixon stuff!
this sucks! i knew that there would be changes coming, but it’s never real til you see it in bold print. 2 of the 3 of these are consistently my favorite books. ugh…. does dan didio hate me on a persoanl level? if so, i want to formally apologize to all bat-fans out there for what i’ve done to the characters you hold dear.
if you’ll excuse me i have to go find some cola to mix with this gigantic bottle of rum…
Oh the horror… the horror!!! What the hell are they doing over at DC? Do they intentionally want to piss off their dwindling number of fans? I want Dan Didio’s head on a platter!
I hope it is a temporary cancellation. Tomasi’s Nightwing is one of my fave books.
I’m hoping this is all part of the Battle for the Cowl plan and hopefully this means bringing Oracle back into the Bat fold and not drifiting away in plastic "platinum flats".
The only bummer about this is that all 3 series were in the hundreds in numbering and I love series with big numbers. I hate the money $ focus of a new #1.
I’m just concerned. Without Birds of Prey as a constant, where does that put Oracle? I’d like to see her as a permanent fixture of JLA or something. Or maybe she’ll help fill the void in the wake of R.I.P. and serve as an Alfred to the new Batman. Again, it’s all in the abstract at this point.
@adrian– Yeah, I don’t like the whole idea of constant rebooting. I like a 100+ issue series. It gives the book a little mythos and history for its own. It gets annoying when in ten years time, Captain America goes from his second volume to his fifth for the sake of that new #1.
This blows. But I do think we will see Robin and Nightwing return with a reboot sometime in the near future. I have a bad feeling about Birds of Prey though. I don’t know the exact sales figures, but I imagine it didn’t sell very well. The one thing that kinda pisses me off with this whole thing is that I was enjoying Tomasi on Nightwing.
Well, that’s just great! And yes, I’m being sarcastic (always best to point that out, it doesn’t travel well in text). It was this very site, and Sir Conor of Kilpatrick himself that got me into Nightwing since Tomasi took over, and it’s nigh on excellent every month. By extension of that I jumped on Robin, and have been loving that too… and now they’re…. they’re…
Me no likey!
If they’re selling well enough, and they’re good solid books, which they are, then what the hell? I call shenanigans. Of course it’s a marketing ploy, and the sales on whatever reboot they have in mind will be huge… to begin with. See, that’s the other edge of this sword; DC will get massive publicity on the reboot, and the first couple of issues are bound to sell a tonload. But they better make sure they’re good. If they’re going to cancel 3 big titles that a lot of people read and love, they better make it a REALLY good book.
Eyun not happy. So not happy that I have no problem talking about myself in the third person! Damn you, Paul Montgomery, harbinger of evil tidings!
I hadn’t heard a peep about this!
Hm.
This whole thing smells funny. They’re basically cancelling the Batman line? How likely is that?
@Jimski – Well, not very. There are going to be new books to take their place. What those books will be, we don’t know yet.
I don’t read any of these books, so I’m not really affected, but this does seem a little extreme – especially to the loyal fans. Plus, I suspect that some or all these series will be back at some point in the near future, most likely with new # 1 issues. (I’ll never this idea that a new # 1 will boost sales. Just tell better stories! Wonder Woman shouldn’t be that far behind Bats/Supes in her series numeration, yet somehow she is only up to 25 issues of the current run. Lame, DC. Lame!)
I’m of the opinion that Dick will fill in for Batman post-R.I.P., but we’ll just have to wait and see how that turns out. With Morrison at the helm of all this, anything’s possible!
However, this re-ordering of the Bat-Books does give me hope for something I have wanted for a long time: A Batwoman book written by Greg Rucka. *crosses fingers*
i definitely think that the books will be relauched after the r.i.p. birds of prey is a bit weird to me to be included in this, because it hasn’t been affected by r.i.p. thus far. so maybe after r.i.p, oracle and the birds will be returning to gotham.
Fucking Morrison…$&*%^
I totaly think their going to relaunch all of their new titles. RIP will end with Bruce having to lleave Gotham and the entire Bat-family coming in to pick up the slack. I dont know who would wear the cowl, but someone needs to. The final battle is being held in Arkahm the villian will know Bat,am is done and start running amuk
I say we embrace the change. New might not be bad. Don’t we read these events because they "will change everything?" God forbid they actually do for once. I’m sure there are some people who are getting sick of complaining that nothing changed. Now people can complain that things changed too much. Should be fun.
This effin blows. i found out today and i was livid! i’ve been collecting robin and nightwing since issue #1 and never dropped. those are the only 2 books i can count on to consistently have and hoping to never be relaunched or renumbered. i am still in dismay….
THIS FREAKIN SUCKS!
i still have some hope that this news is false. Newsarama has been wrong before…..
oh god i cant deal with this…
Wow, this totally comes out of left field.
I mean I read these titles in trade mostly. But it sounds like Nightwing and Robin has been getting better and better each issue. Also I’m not a huge fan of Birds of Prey but what conor put out is mind boggling to me every time I think it. These three titles have been around for 12+ years (1994 for Robin and 1996 for the other two) that just amazes me. Considering how the late 90’s and early 00’s were, how these titles survived for so long is just confusing.
Not saying they are bad titles, but considering these are titles about Batman SIDEKICKS, it’s amazing they have lasted longer then most titles out there. There is a possible chance that these are just going to be retitled or launched as #1’s again because of RIP. But if I was someone who read these titles on a regular basis for 12-14 years I would be pissed off right now. This could totally hurt the DC sales in the long run if you think about it.
Wait and see is the only option at this point. I am always deeply saddened when a book is cancelled, if i like it or not.
yes, this habit of cancelling book to relaunch a new #1 to herald a new direction is tired, but unfortunately a sales tactic that works. we fall for it every time. and in some cases like superman (byrne era) and the avengers (busiek/bendis) it works like a charm.
i think nightwing is an interesting character, but none of the recent trades i’ve taken out from the library were enjoyable for me. the same goes for robin. birds of prey was the only title i really enjoyed and that was only simone’s run.
i’m buying the RIP hardcover and i’ll see what else lures me in. he’s batman after all.
I really stray from DC books (with a few exceptions like Simon Dark), but this is still somewhat harsh news to me. I’m really glad I’m not a major Batfan, or else I’d be very upset indeed. DC had better know what they’re doing (in other words, Didio needs to get his s**t straight… or get fired).
I just started collecting both titles. This makes me really sad. ugh. I was really diggin’ nightwing too. Hopefully something cool gets done with Dick Grayson even if his book is cancelled.
@DocSamson
It’s hardly fair to blame Morrison. I’m guessing that this change had more than a little to do with editorial, so if he hadn’t written it, someone else would have had to do it.
Ya I read this I only just started reading Robin because of RIP and dabbled in Nightwing in the past. Hopefully, this is just a fallout of RIP and not because of sales. Seriously though I won’t be surprise when they come back with a new #1
Looks like there will soon be a nice spot for new readers to hop on the bat-wagon.
Pee Ess: I blame G-Mo for everything. Even diarhea.
Batman will survive but everybody around him will die. He will get tougher and kill the Joker, again. Everything will change! The old captain Marvel will lose his powers and become a kid again. He will be the new Robin and that is the Robin that will be in the TV show.
Crud. I’ve really been enjoying those books
…but in these harsh economic times, I’m certainly glad to have two less books to buy. Although, knowing these sorts of things, they’ll lauch 5 different books, all of which I’ll be too weak to ignore.
Batgirl is the only Silver Age character that Geoff Johns hasn’t retconned so I’m guessing that by the end we’re going to see Barbara in the costume again.
I’m not worried about Grayson because, again, Geoff Johns works at DC.
So the only Bat titles around after next year will be: BATMAN, DETECTIVE COMICS, BATMAN CONFIDENTIAL, and ALL STAR BATMAN.
Well it’s not all bad; I mean two are really good, one is okay, while the last is a peice of garbage. I’m sure DC is going to realise more Bat-titles is the way and we will see another Robin series in the future. It’s just a shame, I just wish one day the companies will listen to their fans and keep their long running series going. 50,000 people are going to be disappointed in feburary, that means 50,000 pissed off fans; not a good sign.
No, there will certainly be more Bat titles. We just don’t know the titles yet. They’re reformatting.
I heard there’s going to be a new crossover series running through the titles called Final Crisis: Batman Corps War followed by Rage of Batman RIP. I could just be making that up, though.
I’ve never read Nightwing, but I’d be willing to if they did something exciting with it. Never really dug the costume.
Yes, we’re all very sad that your favorite characters were mistreated or pushes to the side, although not really because the changes made by Johns have been for the better. Of course, none of this has ANYTHING to do with the cancellation of these books.
Took me awhile to warm up to Hal but GL is pretty awesome now and I’m going to give Flash a shot because that costume is just too cool to pass up. Yeah, Johns is solid but he goes to the retcon well too often. Barry, Hal, the Rogues, and now apparently Superboy. I’m sure I’ve missed another one in there.
What I was saying in my own odd way is that is the Bat-titles are looking to revitalize their line in the same way that the Green Lantern line did. We’ll probably see something similar in some way to the GL crossover events: a strong singular voice in the head writer, one superstar artist paired with a couple of up-and-comers, and a can’t-miss event.
They need to let Nightwing out of the Bat-family. He has the Titans again (for the moment) and there should really be a push to make that better. He came into his own a long time ago in the Titans and it was greate but for some reason DC feels he needs to be dragged back into Batworld.
I think it’s bullshit. I like all them books.
The Titans…now there’s a family of books that need help.
I hope R.I.P. paysoff in way that makes this worth it. I am convinced that these books will be relaunched with the return of Bruce Wayne. Does anyone know what happened to Devin Grayson?
Wow. I’m with Conor on the knife in the gut type of reaction here. I read all these books & would hate to see them go, especially Nightwing (which is deinitely NOT "long, long over due to be cancelled"). I really hope this is some marketing ploy & we continue to get a monthly dose of all these characters, no matter what they re-name the books.
I’ll save my fanboy rage for February to see if these books really do stay on the shelf … but if they do, I’ll be genuinely pissed off & confused by this decision by DC.
@TheNextChampion – ALL STAR BATMAN AND ROBIN kicks ass, certainly much more than CONFIDENTIAL and Morrison’s current run on the main title (I haven’t read DETECTIVE). I’m so glad to see that it can’t be affected by the crazy happenings of the mainstream Bativerse… but that’s probably just me, which I’m okay with. 🙂
I look forward to the Rage of the Bat fanboys oneshot that is due in March.
Rage Cat-Woman is going to be epic!
There’s going to be Batman, Catman, Pigman, Horseman, Cowman, Eaglewoman, Deerwoman… This is going to be one epic-ass crossover!
I embrace this change, though I love BoP and rather like Robin. Clearly, change is hard, but necessary. Given the consistently improving quality of super-hero comics in general, and DC in particular, it’s bound to be awesome. (I might have issues with the editorial direction, but the writing is second-to-none.) I think we now know why Chuck Dixon walked out, though, and I can’t say as I blame him. He put in a lot of work on these characters; for editorial to tell him that they’re all being cancelled and at least some of his hard work was being unwritten must have been dfficult for him. I’m not even going to speculate about what’s next, because it’ll either be A) a return to the status quo or B) to far out in left field to even consider. I’m very curious to see sales figures, however, and how well (or poorly) they bear out my theories about change and status quo, over time.
I wish Chuck Dixon would have never left.
@DeanWinchester no doubt! chuck dixon and devin grayson are the only 2 who could save this for me!
@macdad34 You need to have faith in the man they call Geoff Johns……but I agree Chuck and Devin are the only two proven worthy to this point.
Damn, Robin and Nightwing are two of my monthly picks and I always enjoy ’em, especially Robin. I have such a mancrush on Tim Drake. Actually, I probably should say boycrush but that sounds even worse, disturbed even. Eek!
Anyway, just give me a monthly book with Tim going to high school, having girl trouble and bitching with Alfred about Batman and I’ll be happy. Call it whatever you want, but I *need* a Robin book!
I wish Warren Ellis would write an Alfred book.
@macdad34
@Garrrett i agree! i need a monthly robin book to maintain my sanity…
@DeanWinchester that may be the best analogy of this EVER!
all i know, regardless of what happens next year, i’m going to make sure i savor (more than i normally do) every remaining issue…
The only thing else they could do is have Kelly Jones do the art for all 3 books when they relaunch. Who wants 5 foot bat ears? Anyone?
and hundreds upon hundreds of abs….
I got a chance to speak with Peter Tomasi a while back, and you could tell he was pretty pissed about this. He never said it then, but He knew. I really enjoyed his run on the book
Maybe this is one of the reasons why Dixon left DC to begin with. He could’ve known in advanced that his Robin series was going to get cancelled (or renumbered) and he didnt like that. Just a theory, but it makes sense to me.
makes sense… i sort of was wondering that, myself. maybe someone could interview him…
i don’t know – someone who has a comics website that produces a podcast and video show…
😎
the DiDio version of DC and my personal version of DC formed from collecting since 1989 are two very different things.
just restart continuity so that you don’t mess up what I’ve enjoyed and we can see a new vision (one thats based on 1983 from what I can see)
@macdad: So John Siuntres then?
I never read Birds of Prey so I don’t care. Robin is more of a Teenager Book. I’m 27 so I’m not really into 90210 stories anymore, see ya!!
But I do enjoy Nightwing from time to time and Dick Grayson has been a prominent CD character since the Golden Age. I was actually happy to see him grow up to be Nightwing as I grew from a freaky pothead videogame fiend teenager into a dude who is almost 30 but still can’t put the comic books behind him even though the video game systems are long gone and still can’t draw good enough to make his own webcomic. Although, Nightwing or the original Robin, Dick Grayson will always have a home in the DC Universe somewhere. It’s about time to end the era anyway. I have a feeling comic books are going to make a big comeback in the next decade and I think DC has the right idea about getting the headstart with some reboots. Shit, look how good Vertigo is doing now.
I was 14 when I bought my first comic book. I remember the guy at the comic book store asked me if I was lost or if I was buying somthing for my brother. Girls at a comic book store were a rarity back then. But I got my book and it was the first Robin mini. I stuck with that kid since then. Through thick and thin, from the highs of Dixon to the lows of Willingham. I got into the whole Bat family, eventually, and love them all now. So I’m hoping this will only be temporary, that it won’t mess up what Dixon worked so hard to create and that we don’t get a #1 reboot when they come back.
I miss Dixon’s Drake and I hope Damian dies. Seriously.
Birds, though it has been largely decent, jumped the shark when Black Canary left the book (some might go as far as to say when Huntress became a regular). Still, I wouldn’t consider it entirely grim. I doubt this says much about what’s in store for Dick & Tim beyond a potential marketing push/line re-alignment.
I liked Benes’s art on BoP but for whatever reason I dislike it on JLA, even though it’s basically the same style.
No one has mentioned the ending of BATMAN and DETECTIVE with the Neil Gaiman issues. Check out this interview with Gaiman himself from Splashpage.mtv… here’s a quote with some of the more interesting items highlighted:
“It’s one of those things where they phoned me up and said, ‘This is what we’d like you to do,’” Gaiman started to say. “It wasn’t even ‘This is what we’d like you to do,’ it was, ‘This is what’s going to be happening with Batman. Would you like to write the last issue of Batman and the last issue of Detective Comics?’ And when they make an offer like that, you say yes.”
Gaiman also says he expects the books to be out in Febuary which is in line with the cancellation of the rest of the Bat-Family books.
Interesting.
http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/10/15/neil-gaiman-writing-batman-as-we-speak/
Ian
sad to hear robin is ending i enjyoed it the most in its dying days. i also liked nigthwing a lot..
whos gonna be batman??
CBR talked to Tomasi and Nicieza
Fabien Nicieza is of course disappointed to see his run on “Robin” come to an end but said he was aware of the plans from “the moment he was offered the assignment.” “Everything I’ve done was to prepare Tim Drake for the end of his series and the beginning of the next phase in his life,” Nicieza told CBR.
The writer added that he’s not leaving the Batverse come March. “I am confident you’ll see my name in the credits of a Bat-Family title the month after the ‘Robin’ series ends,” confirmed Nicieza.
Peter Tomasi, who is also writing January’s “Batman and the Outsiders Special” #1, revealed he will be taking over ongoing writing duties for “Outsiders” as well, following his last issue of “Nightwing.”
The long-time editor turned writer told CBR he’s not disappointed about the end of “Nightwing,” because, as was the case of Nicieza, he knew this was in the works for some time. “I don’t think the word ‘disappointment’ factors in for me, since everyone here at Bat Central knew that this was in the works,” Tomasi said. “I’ve had a blast writing ‘Nightwing’ and really enjoyed being able to contribute a small part to his 153-issue run. Dick Grayson is a great character and my only real ‘disappointment’ comes from not being able to tell more stories about him.”
“But just remember, from endings come beginnings, so all you Wingnuts take heart.”
More in link.
Nightwing has finally been getting good again with Tomasi on it & they cancel it? I don’t this at all. I really hope Titans isn’t the only place we get to see Nightwing next year. That would suck. If these cancellations are for real, I hope we get some type of Gotham Knights book with monthly stories on Nightwing, Batgirl, Robin etc.
It’s good news that Tomasi will be writing Outsiders, though.