Heroes – S03E08 – Villains

Volume Three: Villains

Tonight’s episode – Villains

Wait, tonight’s episode is named the same as the volume? What does that mean? Does that mean this is the end of the volume? This season is split into two parts… oh, well. Maybe they just got lazy with the names.

Oh, hey did you hear that Heroes producers Jeph Loeb and Jesse Alexander were thrown on the sacrificial pyre? Yes, apparently last week’s Entertainment Weekly cover story was the last straw for NBC and they demanded that some heads roll among the creative staff of the once heralded show, and since NBC spent a lot of money touting show creator Tim Kring as a Creative Visionary, Loeb and Alexander took the fall. I’m sure there will be no weeping in comicsville as Loeb is the whipping boy du jour (yet, paradoxically, his books still out-sell most comics), but at this point whatever it takes to get this show back on track is fine with me. Although, I would argue that the show this season hasn’t been that bad and that the last episode in particular addressed many of the problems I’ve had with Heroes.

People should also keep in mind, amidst their jumping for joy, that Loeb and Alexander have already overseen 17 scripts for this season which means that we won’t be seeing the “new direction” for another nine episodes. Will it be too late by then?

As always, I look forward to your thoughts, opinions, gripes, live-blogging, etc.


  1. Here we go.

  2. Haha – floppy haired Peter!


  4. That’s a fun way to make Jiffy Pop.

  5. The logo was neat.

  6. Sympathy for the villians

  7. so… Geoff Johns musta wrote this.  All kindsa retconnery seems to be afoot tonight.  Maybe I’m wrong.

  8. mmm. Pie.

  9. You think eric roberts just hang around the set till they need him 

  10. Argh, my laptop went wonky and I had to reboot.  Thoughts so far:

    – Robert Forester is TAN. Like George Hamilton tan.

    – Eric Roberts makes this show better.

    – Aren’t Sylar and Electronica Mars married in the future?  It’s quite a way to meet. "How did you and mom meet?" "Weeeell…"

  11. Also, the VILLAINS logo was cool.  Reminds me of when X-FILES would change their opening to fit important episodes.

    And I think they pulled that dude out of bed to do the TWILIGHT promo.

  12. Robert Forester  is the most evil person on this show

  13. idk how most of your first dates start connor… but that one seemed… uh, romantic.  yeah sure, romantic.

  14. This is like a clip show!

  15. I will always see Robert Forester as Max Cherry from Jackie Brown.

  16. The twilight dud looked stoned

  17. It’s the retcon clip show.  Awesome.  15 minutes in and I’m already loving this one.

  18. A recuring theme is to make everyone on this show related to claire. Now she has another evil uncle

  19. The Petrellis have a good dynamic, I’d like to see more father vs. sons.

  20. Ugh for some reason i find making everyone on this show less badass so…..badass. Meredith finally isnt just a lighter!

  21. @ Conor.  Really enjoyed the shakespeare reference to father vs. son.  Also made me think of Oedipus cycle though.

  22. Is it me or is Mama Petrell kind of weaki

  23. Colosus!

  24. so who’s hoping they bring invisible claude back?

  25. I’m pretty sure that a metal fist to the head would cause some brain damage.

  26. @ Xebix HOMELESS Colosus!

  27. haha, "Hi! Do you like pie???"  that killed me.

  28. so umm… most awkward flirting ever?

  29. Invisible man!

  30. Eric Roberts looked at Flint through the glass like a scientist looks at a lab rat.

  31. Hello, my name is Gabriel, and I am an adict.

  32. @ Conor he’s eric roberts he took worst hits from critics

  33. "I was afraid you were about to burst into song."  – That’s why I love HRG.

  34. I miss bitchy Elle!

  35. The next time a pretty blonde brings a pie over I’m just going to assume that I am under surveillance.  You can’t fool me anymore pretty blondes with pie!

  36. That’s some kind of psychotic entrapment.

    "Hey, Sylar… here are some delicious braaaaaaaaains!"

  37. Why are they nudering Linderman

  38. Santiago… are awesome bicycle kicks his ability?

  39. What does it say about this show that even the iFanboy site only has FOUR people talking about it. I’m sure more than that watch, but I’d really be curious to know how many. I jumped ship after it went unwatched on my DVR the first four weeks.

  40. @ Conor, I think he’s a speedster… cept those effects are totally different than how they do Daphne.

  41. @docsamson some of us are watching and lurking

  42. @DocSamson – Your loss.

  43. holy shit they caused the wreck from episode 1

  44. You probably want to taze the angry and dumb firestarter first…

  45. i was just about to say that this whole merideth/flint thing was superfulous but if that’s actually what this train scene is leading to, that’s a fancy bit of retcon.

  46. and eric roberts with the pimp slap

  47. Linderman is becoming a badass again

  48. @Conor, not from my point of view. And chances of it being around to actually "finish" seem to get worse all the time. I find it pretty hard to watch any new "serial" type shows when they’ll probably just get canceled anyway.

  49. Lots of slapping in this episode.

    (Okay, not a lot)

  50. i just realized this weekend that the guy who plays linderman is the guy who plays alex in A Clockwork Orange.  Yeah i’m a bit slow but it blows my mind.

  51. @DocSamson – If you don’t care then why crash the party to complain?

  52. no real wall throwing yet though.

  53. What a twist with Er makes me almost regret HRG killed him

  54. @DocSamson – Also, TV shows don’t "finish", not even serial ones.  They aren’t designed that way.  They are designed to go on forever (like comics).  Some are lucky enough to get to plot their own endings, but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

  55. @Conor: ugh, don’t be defensive, I’m not even complaining, just finding it curious that there weren’t more of the iFanbase posting now, that’s all. I keep reading how the show’s in trouble, so I figured that I’d check out what the site is saying about it.

  56. @DocSamson – I’m not being defensive, just calling it as I see it.

  57. If the villians show is a high rating show you think they got with tim krings original plan and start killing old characters and bringing in new ones

  58. so, gabriel is probably creepier than sylar. 

  59. Bennet created Sylar. Good Twist

  60. EMO with ability!! Super Eyeliner Attack!!

  61. sylar’s gonna eat a goth kid

  62. Emo boy.

  63. i nix that, the creepy emo dude is way creepier.  he’s just buggin me out.. um force blasts?  Why give the emo/goth guy shooting powers?  Someone’s gonna be offended by that one.

  64. Is it just me, or are there actual retcons occuring?  Like, the scene in the hospital didn’t play out that way did it?  If so, then why the need to go and revisit it?  Will we actually be touching on that storyline again?  Or, maybe due to the constant time travelling, we’ll be seeing the timeline of season 1 and 2 change? 

  65. That scene was homoerotic.

  66. Hes back

  67. @Crippler – They are definitely retconning stuff to add in Papa Petrelli.

  68. Hmmm, I’m having a real hard time getting into this episode. Just like the last four or five. I mean, I’m still watching, but I’m also web surfing, running some PC utilities, and sorting DVDs at the same time.


    Oh, and now some kid with eyeliner has shown up. To get killed. By Skylar. Set up by Veronica Mars and that dude from Falcon Crest or Dynasty or whatever.  And the Jackie Brown guy is being creepy now. When does the Boston Public chick show up with Pretty Woman’s brother? That part’s been pretty cool. Or not.

  69. angela petrelli is the best character on this show.

  70. i don’t recall seeing sylar with this power.  oh well.  retcon away!!!

  71. i’ll I keep thinking is how much that kid reminds me of "Sandman Ron"

  72. This is a nice reminder that HRG was, at one point on this show, a motherfucking bastard.

  73. ha ha its not your mother recipe

  74. again, angela petrelli is awesome!

  75. I dont rember Sylar using emo kids power

  76. Oh yeah, Hellboy: The Golden Army on Blu-Ray tomorrow!

  77. @cyberauron – I’m betting there are a lot of powers that Sylar has that we haven’t seen him use.

  78. Just did an honest to god spit take on the The Office preview.

  79. Oh the irony!!

  80. This is fantastic.  I love finding out how all of these things started.

  81. @ Conor – I think HRG still IS a motherfucking bastard. His motivations are still more selfish then altruistic.   

  82. @Crippler – I dunno.  He was mean before and then something changed.  I don’t think he’s the same guy he once was.  The new HRG would never unleash Sylar onto the world.

  83. this epsisode is definitely reminding me as to why i love some of these characters.  Maybe i should rewatch my first season dvd’s.

  84. wow… the cremation thing was intense.  Can’t wait to find out something about papa petrelli’s plans.  oh shit, beheaded african isaac???

  85. Oh shit!!

  86. what the fuvk

  87. Not Hiro!

  88. Dang.

  89. omg!!!


  90. whoah! that was quite the ending

  91. Great ending/cliffhanger.

  92. That was THE SHIT!

  93. Yes goodbye hiro

  94. what i would like to know is how he cut off his head?

  95. Wow.

    Poor black Isaac.

     And at least Petrelli will WANT to use his time travel powers.


  96. No! No more time travel!

  97. ok now to destiny

  98. @Conor – I’m still hoping for a big villainous reveal at some point this season.  Remember him killing the Russian guy who was holding the art in season 2?  That was post conversion and clearly evil.  He’s still the same person, he just chose to love his daughter more then his line of work… although, maybe that’s all part of the plan.  Claire seems to want to be just like dad. 

  99. Well, it picked up at the end.

    And for the record, I got over my "Loeb is fired" euphoria early last week. Was listening to part 2 of his WordBalloon Q&A this morning and I still contend that he Just.Doesn’t.Get.It.  But the man lost a job so I’m not gonna pile on. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

    Now, off to MNF!


  100. They seemd to be leading up to the power being taken away.Hiro

  101. misusing it and it being a problem

  102. Did Hiro not have his power in the future? Didn’t all future glimpses show him without it?

  103. Wow I missed an episode that was essentially a clip show and had a ton of retconning? Which is weird cause we’re only on season 3 and we’re already changing some of the back story of the series.

    Sounds like a great episode! (heavy sarcasm)

  104. Well he did get whacked pretty easy by Ando

  105. @ champion.  Well, most of us liked it.  So, yeah maybe try giving it a watch or just don’t post.

  106. @TheNextChampion – They didn’t really change anything.  They just showed how the events form the beginning os season one came to be and how they were connected.  It was a classic retcon.  The only thing that was really different was adding Pappa Petrelli to one scene he wasn’t in before.

  107. @auron.  You forget.  Ando had kamehameha powers.  He might as well have been invincible.

  108. destiny was ok for  afive minute episode

  109. @Anson: I’ve been giving this whole series a shot (just missed this one cause of work)….and it sucks….end of story.

  110. Judging by the comments it looks like it was a good episode.  I turned off the TV after Chuck was over because Heroes doesn’t excite me enough to wait through commercials.  Now I’m very excited to watch it.

  111. @ Champion.  It just seemed kinda stupid to come bash the episode that you hadn’t seen based off the comments.  Especially because most of the comments were fairly positive.

  112. @Anson: I’m sorry, maybe I was more bashing the season then the episode. Although a semi-clip show does not sound intriguing to me.

    I’ll pick it up on my verizon on-demand and see how it was.

  113. Best episode since Company Man?  I say … YES!

  114. @Superyan – That is a definite possibility.

  115. Just finished watching it. Renewing my faith in this series.

  116. Wow, they’re just killing people left and right this season.

    This week– Usutu

    2 weeks ago– Maury

    3 weeks ago– Adam

    4 weeks ago– Vortex Guy

    5 weeks ago– Future Peter and Future Others

    6 weeks ago– Jesse and the German

    7 weeks ago– Bob

    I mean, that’s just crazy right there.

    Oh, and doesn’t Arthur already have time travel powers from Peter?  Matter of fact, does Arthur now even need to "take" people’s powers?  Can’t he just copy them now from Peter’s ability?  I know he’s taking Hiro’s to be a douche but still… And I think he decapitated Usutu with telekinesis.  Good episode.

  117. meh, it was an ok episode for me.  It was a fun retcon romp, but some of it didn’t exactly work for me.  I did love how Claire’s mom was right there during the fire in season 1.  Fun scenes like that just made me giddy.  But the same other problems I have with the show popped up often.

    P.S. I love what they did with Angela Petrelli.  I tip my hat to them for that

  118. To me it’s like when this first time this series was introduced people were like:

    Original show! Great ideas and a serious look at super heroes!

    Now with the recent season we’re all stoked on a Clip Show….Something seems wrong about that picture.

  119. It wasn’t a clip show.  That was a joke we were making because there were some scenes that were reshot from different perspectives giving you more information than you had previously about what was going on.

  120. Somewhat off topic, I always HATED clip shows!!  At least when the Simpsons did it they tried to weave it onto some type of story.  But even then, I didn’t like them.  I am sure there are other examples of good clip shows that would make me change my tune, but I can’t think of them right now

  121. I’m really enjoying this season. It’s already better than S2 and i have faith it’s gonna be better than S1. liked tonight’s episode. i think to see how all this things started. like that they are finally starting to kill of some people but damn beheading african issac? pretty messed up.


    btw, has anyone seen actor’s name of african issac? i know it’s his culture but a first glance it looks like gibberish

  122. I had to watch the show on DVR this morning. I really liked this episode. I’m a sucker for more back story. I’ve really like this season and wish that I could have watched this episode while it aired so I could join in the posting. One thing I dont understand is why certain people, you know who you are, feel such a strong urge to come in here for the sole purpose of shitting all over the show. People are in here enjoying it, there just isnt any need to try to start shit just to start shit.

  123. I thought this was a great episode.  They kept the number of storylines down and really fleshed out Pappa.  It felt solid and extra meaty.

  124. You bastards are gonna make me want to watch it again now. Just when I thought I was out…

  125. Wait, so when did this take place? 3 years ago?

    Solid episode. Didn’t Sylar try to buzzsaw El? They didn’t seem to know each other whatsoever when this happend. If this is who Sylar is married to in the future I would be flabergasted.

    "Oh ya my husband tried to rip of my head before we started going out, but I don’t know, making babies with someone who tried to kill you is just so exhillirating."

    I love seeing the Petrelli family in action and this was by far the best episode this season. It was nice seeing the annoying characters (Parkman, Ms. Freeze, Ando) take a back seat in this episode to the truly intriguing characters (Petrellis, Noah, El, Sylar). Also, am I the only one who misses the Haitian being in a larger role?

  126. Also responding to the comments about a limited about of iFanboys posting on this board, this can be partially attributed to us all not living on the East coast.

  127. it really reminded me of the secret origin arc in green lantern

  128. Just watched the episode and two words: Plot Holes.

    Many many many many plot holes. The worst being the Slyar/Elle/Noah debacle I saw. So apparently Elle was always a goody two shoes? Even though when we first met her she was a cold hard bitch who had no problems killing anyone. Plus Noah has no problem releasing Sylar when he damn knows for sure he will try and get revenge on him. I know writers cant go back in time (in RL) to change aspects of season one. But Noah didnt seem to remember Sylar and nor did he seem to be pissed off he went after his daughter season one.

    Plus the idea that Sylar is now a misunderstood person is just laughable. When we first met Sylar in Season 1, he’s killed several people with no real emotions. Now we’re suddenly to believe that he did (still) has a heart and doesnt want to kill? Flim Flam I say!  Plus now Linderman is suddenly a good natured baddy who healed Angela? Totally contradicts the man we saw in Season 1 who had no problem blowing up NYC. Plus it makes Angela look pretty retarted as well. If she is such a smart woman and knows everything. Why did she act like a blumbling fool for most of season one?

    Plus and not even the last but still; Mohinder. I thought he came to NYC and picked up Noah before Sylar was introduced. But here, Monhinder is in NYC right when Sylar starts to kill people. So when in the hell did he come to NYC? Too many inconsistances here, and that’s not even half of it! I really tried enjoying this episode but the plot holes we’re just too many to count here. It’s like the writers were like: Hey our season isnt matching the previous seasons! Let’s go rewrite some aspects of Season one to make our season work!

    Lazy, that’s all this is, even with Loeb and the other guy gone this hasnt got better. You guys can have your little discussions when the episode comes out, but it’s clear that this series has lost all momentum and I will not even touch this anymore. If this series isnt cancelled by mid-season break I will be astonished.

  129. Wow.  I just figured out what the problem with Heroes – that Alexander dude is wearing a Lucasfilm hat!  He was infected with Phantom Menace!  Get out of my mind George! 

  130. Solid Episode, i enjoyed it.  Like how EVERYONE seems to be related to claire, and i def think the how Sylar bit was to make him out to be more the victim.  Oh and i Miss the old HRG, back when we didnt even know his name

  131. "Sigh".  I just watched it, so I missed all the fun w/you guys, but it was a great episode, not matter what any 18 year-olds think.

  132. @SteveM: Sorry that I actually hated the episode. It’s like this is some weird other dimension where negative reviews or critics arent allowed.

    I watched Smallville tonight, and I think that is a bad show too. But what the difference is between that show and Heroes is that Smallville has actually risen from an awful show to a pretty watchable show (but still with a ton of flaws). Heroes went from being one of the best and most innovative shows to now one of the most laughable.

    I cant be the only one that says this stuff. This show gets terrible ratings, it gets terrible reviews (at least from the sources I go to), plus overall the writing and acting has gone considerably down since season one. Hell the show is kicking people out and is begging to get one writer off one show (Pushing Daises) to come back to them. That’s just sad. I’ll say it again: If this goes for another season, I will be gob-smacked.

  133. I really like it, as I have pretty much most of the 3rd season. Season 1 I loved. Season 2 I hated, and was pretty vocal about, untl the second half. This season has been great. It’s not the same show as the Heroes we all loved from season 1 anymore, but at least it’s fun again.

    @Champ – You think Smallville is a bad show, but you think it differs from Heroes because it’s now watchable. Yet it has a ton of flaws… You wanna pick an opinion there, buddy?

    Your sources say which show gets terrible ratings? Be specific. Not having a go, just can’t follow your Da Vinci Code clues.

    Which places give which show terrible reviews? Again, less cryptic please.

    Heroes is not begging Bryan Fuller back, he would rather Pushing Daisies keep going. I would rather Pushing Daisies keep going too. I daren’t ask where you heard Heroes was "begging" him back, as no doubt  it was these "sources".

    If Pushing Daisies doesn’t get picked up for a full season, it will be sad to see the end for one of the most original shows in recent memory. If Fuller goes back to Heroes, that will be doing them a favour as he wrote some of the best episodes of season 1, including ‘Company Man’. Although, how he’d fit in with how warped the searies is from season 1 now is anyone’s guess.

    I say keep Daisies going.

  134. @Eyun: Conor was telling us the ratings have gone down: There’s that source.

    Entertainment Weekly, IGN, Newsarama, CBR.com, and many many other comic related sites that that the time to talk about Heroes say it’s been either medicore or just plain bad. There’s source #2.

    For the Bryan Fuller comment, okay begging might have been a bit much, but that came from IGN as well. But I admit to your comment on how Fuller can honestly come back to this series. Obviously he must’ve been good if the Producers of Heroes really want him back. But if he’s trying to do his own work; why on earth would he go to such a boiling pot that is ready to explode like Heroes?

    The Smallville and Heroes relationship: Well basically I think both are bad, but in two categories. Smallville is so bad it’s good to watch. Sorta like watching a bad Van Damme film; it sucks but there is some redeming qualities to go on. While Heroes is so bad that is just plain sucks. No redeeming qualities (at least in MY eyes) and nothing that really pulls me to want to keep watching. You know what’s really shocking about all this? Is that originally Season 2 and Season 3 was suppose to be one full season. If it wasnt for the WGA strike then we wouldn’t have had a shorten season. With such a piss poor attempt at season 2, I cant imagine how bad this would’ve been if Generations and Villains was one big season.

  135. RATINGS:

    Yep, they’re down and way down.  They continue to drop every week.  This show was the lowest rated HEROES ever.


    He has said that if PUSHING DAISIES gets the axe (it just wrapped episode 13 and word is ABC won’t be ordering any more) that he’d love to come back to HEROES because he loved working on it.