Remember that video we talked about earlier from Goon creator, Eric Powell. He took it down. If you didn't see it, it was a call for creators and fans to support and produce more creator owned work, outside of Marvel and DC and superheroes. It satirized the effect of corporate comics on talented creators in a pretty unique way. He posted on his Facebook page the reasons why.
The video I released last week in an attempt to draw attention to the lopsided tendencies of our industry has clearly become a divisive force instead of the unifying positive one I intended it to be. For that reason I've taken it down.
I work in satire and humor. Apparently those aspects of the video were lost on some people. If anyone misconstrued the meaning, my exact quote at the end of the video was, "We have to make original creator owned content just as vital to sustaining this industry as the Marvel and DC super hero books." And that's exactly what I meant and feel. At no point did I say or even allude that no one should buy Super Hero comics. I believe diversification is the only way to keep this industry vital and strong. Our country just went through a major "TOO BIG TO FAIL" scenario. Marvel and DC control 70% of the market and there are plenty of reasons that the corporations that own them could find to stop producing comics and use those super hero properties in more profitable ventures. I still believe that to be a legitimate fear. I need no more confirmation of my beliefs than that Shelton Drum, one of the best retailers in the business and the person who runs Heroes Con, agrees with me that we need diversification.
The video came from noble aspirations and the most genuine part of my heart. I love the art form of comics. And my wishes were only to make this industry stronger and create a better atmosphere for it's creators. For that I have no apologies.
"Be the Change you want to see in the world." -Gandhi
"But I tried, didn't I? Goddamnit, at least I did that." -R.P. McMurphy
Thanks,
Eric Powell
And there it is. While I didn't necessarily agree with the method, I am glad that a conversation was spurred. What I didn't like at all was that it turned off some people from his work. Then again, if that was gonna do it, those folks probably never would have gotten into Powell's work in the first place. I'm a little surprised that it's gone, but the conversations are going on. People are thinking about it. At the end of the day, that's about the most impact you can have. Just like thinking about whether your food comes from an organic farm, or your furniture a renewable forest, it's good to think about whether the comics you buy are creator owned. Maybe that doesn't matter to you, or inform your purchases, but if you thought about it, that's something.
This conversation isn't even close to over, and in the coming months, we might still see a lot of change in the industry in front of us.
And as a little PS, here's artist Tony Harris' response on Eric's post.
Fuck anybody who had a problem with this video. Thin skinned, shit-Faces. Get a life. have any of you nay-Sayers EVER read a Powell Comic??!?!? Did I even have to ask that question?!!?!? It was truthiness, wrapped in Satire. And you can ALL quote me on that.
So that happened.
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As an indie publisher/writer myself I really appreciated his video. Its nice to feel like you aren’t completely alone, and at least someone else in the world is fighting for what you do. The satire was funny, the point was blunt, but he was doing it for a good reason. And he’s right.
Like I said in the article about the video. DO NOT PISS OFF THE SUPERHERO FANS. You do not want to have to deal with their wrath.
It’s really sad that he had to take it down. Mainly for what it says about us as a society, and the internet in general. Nobody anymore knows how to deal with opinions that they themselves might not happen to share. We have turned into a nation of “You’re an idiot if you don’t see things my way!”
So many people read something they don’t exactly agree with, and their response is to ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK. Flame and make the person they don’t see eye to eye with’s life a living hell. Just like extremism in politics, the internet and fandom has caused people to act like hate mongering zealots.
Powell made the mistake of ranting against something that a certain sub-section really holds dear to their heart. Sucks that such a mis-step in today’s internet world means he has to back off of his stance in fear of angry lynch mobs.
On the bright side. It’s not like he offended Joss Whedon fans or anything. If that was the case, I’d be a bit more concerned for his sanity/safety.
Anyone can make a video saying that creators should do more of their owned projects. We’ve seen a few of them. They make me shrug and go, “Yeah. I think we know.” Yeah, it’s nice and comforting for an established creator to come out and say this but… Kirkman went on to start an imprint at Image to bring new creators in. Not everyone can (whether it’s a lack of business savvy or resources or whatever) start up something like that but hasnt this conversation been around for a while by now? D:
While I think he makes an interesting point, I did find it to be slightly disingenuous coming from a guy whose work is published through a company that specializes in Licensed Property comics.
Interesting turn of events. Positive campaigns tend to win out in the long run. In politics as in advertising.
I could not agree more with Tony Harris at the end. Sadly, most Americans lack the “satire-understanding” gene.
I agree with Tony Harris. Those “comic book guy” fans who invest so much of their lives in the big two and allow themselves to ged pissed off over a satire, would probably never read the Goon. I love comic books, as a MEDIUM, including superheroes. I think that the video was more focused on doing creator owned comics (Invincible, eh?) that are outside of Disney or WB’s reach, than attacking their precious X-men’s and Batman’s. This superhero thing is like a damn addiction with some of those fellas. I mean, was 52 or Final Crisis really that good? It should be about diversity, yo!
I guess the question I have is, is a satire the best way to get this message out?
@WeaklyRoll I think its one of the ways. It needs to be a number of different approaches, but no matter the approach taken there will be angry/upset people.
Well I’m sorry, Eric Powell, but when your “satire” belittles rape, I’m not apt to follow you any further than that. Satire is not an excuse for contributions to a reprehensible cultural discourse. I’m pretty sure Gandhi would agree.
But flounce away, sir. Take your toys and go home. I’ll remain in the sandbox quite happily without them, listening to others who choose to make your legitimate points without your so-called “satire.”
satire is a valid delivery system to cut through the static and generate debate.
kudos to mr. Powell and good charge by mr. Harris.
ass-raping vs. ass-kissing
i know what side i stand on.
i guess it musta been an “indie” friendly video….
Oh my fellow Americans: listening to the words, but not understanding the sentences.
At any rate, having a diverse marketplace does nothing but make sure it can thrive. Havent we been fighting the “comic books are MORE than just blokes in spandex” stereotype for the better part of twenty years now? Why do we have to have this argument with other people who like comics?
Well…I guess the main reason why I support Powell AND his message is because he was BULLIED into taking it down. It’s kinda ridiculous when so many people get upset over the big two, it’s not like the video posed any threat to them. Whatever happened to standing up for the underdog? 70 % of the market ain’t no joke folks. At the risk of sounding like a jerk, this kinda reminded me of Mubarak supporters riding into the square on horseback, attacking the protesters. I wanna see more Powell-like voices of protest.
I know what is satire and what is humor. I know that this is what Powell was attempting. Thing is, this was not a good example of either. I just do not find forcible rape to be funny, ever.
I was planning on picking up Godzilla, but if this is the quality of content that I will be supporting, I have to change my mind. So thanks for saving me my $3!!
Guys! No one is thinking of how much money that video can make now that was just a limited run. Polybag that shit and through it on eBay!
“Throw” not “Through”
Nothing ruins a good joke like a typo.
If anyone is wondering, the Goon is better than any Marvel or DC Universe book on the stands.
Just the truth.
I love how the rape comment has turned into the conenient way for the ultra-spandex crowd to act offended. As if they aren’t simply just mad because he railed on their beloved. Seriously guys. You’re not as sneaky as you think, acting all morally indignant over a word while you just so happen to have a Thor avatar and pajamas. Coming off a tad transparent. Just admit that you love your superhero books and are mad at someone who spoke out against them. It’s alright. You can do that. It’s allowed.
It’s humorous to look at the internet in 2011 and where we are as a people. You’d think such an avenue for free speech would allow alternative and differing ideas a place to be heard. You’d think that interacting with and coming across all sorts of people with differing view points and backgrounds would cause us to become more open minded and tollerant. NO. WRONG. All it has become is a really easy way for people to scream at one onother and yell their bias and opinion as loud as they can at people who don’t think as they do. So sad. So disappointing. And we wonder why it is that we live in a world where Teen Mom is a hit tv show.
@j206 I like superhero books and didn’t mind the video.
@NawidA Werd. If only he would make more…
Damn, wish I had seen the video.
@j206
I love superhero comics. I’m not hiding that at all. I also think there is a wealth of great material out there on the indie scene, and I want creators to have the opportunity to publish their work. I’m sympathetic to Powell’s argument, even if I don’t like his methods and don’t entirely agree with all of his points.
The rape reference, however, is insupportable. The only thing “convenient” about it is the ease with which Powell was able to use that comparison in a culture that demeans the seriousness of sexual assault. As a white American man, Eric Powell has boundless amounts of privilege. No one FORCED him to take down his video. He did so in a huff, and because he knew his method of presentation was indefensible. But he could just as easily have left it up. The people in danger of actually being FORCED into anything are the millions of sexual assault survivors who will face a world where their rapes don’t “count” if Congress passes some current legislation. You tell me who is a bigger victim of intolerance.
Too bad the video spurned another us vs. them debate with both sides lacking moderation.
@Paul – Who said there’s anything wrong with superheroes? I have Spider-Man & She-Hulks on my pull list.
I’m not talking in blanket generalities. What you like doesn’t make you rational or not. I’m talking about the sub-section of the superhero fans that really took offense and obviously lost their shit in attacking Powell. You could read people in the last thread over-reacting. They felt that something loved was being attacked. When in reality it wasn’t. It was just somebody who shared an opinion that they didn’t understand.
I’m not talking to all superhero readers by any means AT ALL. Otherwise I’d be talking to myself. I’m talking to the portion of comic book readers who give us all a bad name and fit the “comic book guy” stereotype to a tee. They exist. And they are the reason Powell took his video down. What happened was no different than if somebody attacked Harry Potter or Twilight books. You’re going to get one hell of a reaction from a rather rabid section of the fan base. Those people exist in comics. Those are who I was talking about. I do want to point out that the sub-section makes up a very small % of the members of this site. And for that I am very proud.
Also, Paul. I posted a link to an article in the Superman casting thread that I’m interested to get your opinion on.
This world does not view rape as one of the worst crimes on the planet?
Is that what you are really saying?
And your evidence of this is because people throw the act and word around as a way to disrespect others?
Wow . . .
The need to categorize people be it “superhero reader,” “Non-superhero reader” up to “privlieged white American male” is far more damaging than anything Eric Powell can ever right.
*Very intense melodramatic and semi-condescending statement!*
@ScorpionMasada Go to any news site right now, look at what Congress is doing, and tell me the world takes rape seriously. No, actually, look up information on rape laws worldwide, and tell me that it’s unversally considered “one fot he worst crimes on the planet.”
Words have impact. If we didn’t believe that, we wouldn’t be on this site arguing.
@throughthebrush i think he’s wrong about the Gandhi quote, wasn’t that Mother Teresa?
@throughthebrush sorry, didn’t mean to reply to you personally just now–pressed the wrong button
But dark humor, satire and adolescent insults do not control government law.
If that were the case, you should be up in arms about the use of murder and killing in the same context.
Or beating someone senseless like they do in super hero comics all the time, which would lead to death or permanent mental and physical damage.
I have yet to encounter anyone in this world who thinks that rape is a “lesser” crime.
Oh yeah, as for world rape laws, you have two issues.
1) The religious/patriarchal influence on government
2) The lack of power/resources to enforce laws even on genocidal serial rapists/murders
As for my personal view, I think rape is personality murder and should be punished by life in prison in many situations.
The Medium is the Message. intentions and execution are two separate things. Most of us understand that Powell is the kind of writer that relies on being offensive in order to by funny. Thats his thing, we get it, we love it. But with that is a fine line, because when the jokes work, its great. When they fail,its a disaster.
Maybe he was trying to be funny or “positive and unifying” or whatever, but he came off as the self appointed arbiter of taste, talking down to people who like comics outside of the kinds he makes (aka mainstream) That preachy elitism is what people took offense to.
The response/apology or whatever letter is more positive and unifying than the original video. It makes the ideas come off with more intelligence and frankly its easier to take seriously and discuss.
I think this may be getting out of hand.
Thank you.
well i was wrong again how humiliating–yes ok Gandhi did say that, i was confused because it was so trite and one forgets that great as he was he could be a bit like that too! Mother Teresa said “be a blessing”, or some such sappy sentiments. maintain balance always, enjoy the rest of this drama!
@Wally err… That’s not quite what the medium is the message means. but other than that I agree with your take.
@PraxJarvin –well your prob right. I have the book where they “spelled it wrong” =).
i kinda stretched it to make the point that the delivery medium influences how the message is understood and that you can’t back peddle out of it citing good intentions.
Capes, spandex, and tights are apparently adequate descriptions of every Marvel & DC character, which apparently makes them lame. Independent publishers, who draw characters with such overexaggerated proportions that they look like Saturday morning cartoons are supposedly far more intellectually superior creators, because they are drawing cartoons that look more like ordinary people, rather than drawing cartoons that look like super heroes? I didn’t get a chance to see the video before it was taken down, but this seems like a rather stupid discussion.
Comments like the one from Tony Harris is why I will buy anything he is associated with, and not just because I have an art crush. His passion rings through and thats why I love him as a creator.
If only he had said what he said above instead of that obnoxious video…..
People tried really hard to miss the point. And some still do.
This whole “I can’t argue with your message, so I argue with the way you delivered it” debating is so frustrating.
@Bendrix Perhaps, but for me, the message was delivered SO obnoxiously, in such an annoying fashion that it turned me off. People need to be aware that how they deliver their message is almost or as important as the message itself. If I tell you you should read The Goon…. which works better?
“you should read The Goon because it’s a good story and has great art.”
“hey dumbass, you should read The Goon because it’s great and if you don’t give it a chance, your killing comics.”
His passion and his message do ring true to me on some level, but if he had just done it in a more adult (and I know how funny that sounds since we are talking about comics) he could have had that coming together effect he was evidently looking for.
@jashcraft1014 – Like I said in the original thread with the video: If he said “Buy more non-superhero books like mine, they are great, too. Not hating on capes, just saying”, ther wouldn’t be a arcticle about it on iFanboy or anywhere else. It’s what indie creators do all the time, and nobody is listening. He had to stirr things up a bit, rattle the cage, break a few eggs.
Without the message delivered like it was, there woudn’t have been a discussion at all.
So, the video turned you off. I can understand that. It’s a special kind of humor. It’s rude. IT’s obnoxious. But that put aside (beacause ultimately, it doesn’t matter), don’t you agree with his statement? Can’t people be smart enough to say “Not my cup of tea, but that guy has a point”? Seems like an lost art.
Anybody who quotes R.P. McMurphy is all right in my book.
I thought it was hilarious, then again I think The Goon is hilarious.
The complaints about it “belittling rape” and so on are almost as misplaced as the ones complaining that he (supposedly) dissed superheroes, and say more about the complainer than they do about the video. As a gay man, I think that anal sex gets a really bad rap, and 99.9% of the people who use it as a metaphor for abuse evidently haven’t tried it. 🙂 But with that said: it’s just a fvcking metaphor (so to speak)! The cartoonist in the video who agrees to let some guy bugger him represents every person who consents to do something he really doesn’t enjoy in exchange for money. The video was about creators prostituting themselves, and having also done that in my misspent youth, I think it’s a valid metaphor.
I admit that I haven’t read Powell’s work, but seeing him mentioned on this site and, yes, even the video, make me think that I would probably enjoy his stuff. The video won’t deter me from seeking out his work in the future.
However:
“The video I released last week … has clearly become a divisive force instead of the unifying positive one I intended it to be.”
Sorry, the video was a rant. An amusing rant, but a rant, none-the-less. I found nothing in it that attempted to be “unifying,” and instead found it to be a lot of misplaced anger in which Powell holds DC and Marvel responsible for poor sales of his work and for not supporting him in general. I wish there was more success to be found in creator-owned work, and I wish that the comic industry had better balance in the types of stories they tell. I think Powell and I agree on that. I don’t think that was the focus of the video he published. It was, through-and-through a “divisive” video, and it’s no wonder that it was seen as such. I don’t know that it was something he should have to apologize for as it seemed to do a good job of expressing his feelings, but I also don’t know that it’s fair to say people who reacted badly to the video did so unjustly or simply didn’t understand it.
@JasonAQuest Look, I agree with nearly all of the content that was in the video. I think that the ‘big two’ act in a manner similar to Wal-Mart with how they use their influence with creators.
None of that means that I will ever find rape funny.
I just do not believe that it is funny. And if that is anyone else’s taste, that is fine, I am sure that there is quite a bit of humor that I find funny that others would find abhorrent. And you know what, they can say that ‘that type’ of humor does not appeal to them, and they can decide (just as I did) that the person who made that joke does not make jokes that they would ever want to hear.
For the record, if he had gone with a Wal-Mart analogy, I would have found it hilarious.
@MisterJ – None of that means that I will ever find rape funny.
And you are very right so.
Good thing then that it wasn’t rape, but just implied rape carried out by two actors (I use the term loosely).
@Bendrix – Great last post. Agree with everything you said. Well put.
@Bendrix Seriously? By your defininition nobody should ever find any joke offensive as long as at least one party knew that it was a joke. That is just absurd.
Worse than that, you missed the joke (and I use that term loosely). The ‘joke’ actually was about rape. It was not about implied rape. The ‘joke’ was eeing somebody getting taken advantage of in one of the worst possible ways and forced to commit a sex act against their will and was supposed to be held equivalent to voluntarily working a major corporation.
Everybody has a line around certain things were the joke stops being funny. Mine is with rape. But feel free to continue to find rape jokes funny. That’s your perogative, just don’t get the joke wrong.
I love Tony Harris. Says it like it is.
Thanks to the iFanhosts for letting this heated discussion got to it’s natural end. They could have intervened but I personally prefer when they let this sort of thing happen.
Yeah, rape as satire. I guess I can see that.
Both Powell and Harris are doing a great job making themselves less interesting to me. I have some of Powell’s books, and plan to read Godzilla (not because of Powell but because I’m a fan of Godzilla) but I don’t agree with him blaming me for reading Amazing Spider-Man for the fact some ‘indie’ comic doesn’t sell. Not my fault. Give me an indie comic that interests me and I’ll read it.
My collection is full of indies that I like from Nightmares & Fairy Tales to Strangers in Paradise.
Don’t put your failures on me. Give me something worth reading and I’ll support it. Otherwise stop trying to push me away by, well, by being a jerk about it.
@Zarathos81 – If your collection is full of indies, even some of Powell, I doubt he puts his “failures” on you. I don’t even get why you feel this is adressed towards you.
I think Warren Ellis said it best on his message board:
“Arserape: not a unifying and positive force.”
I wasn’t offended at all by Powell’s video, I thought it was pretty well done but it does come across that if you support Marvel or DC you are some kind of douchebag. He can claim that it wasn’t his intention but that was the impression I got. I’ve never read Goon but I did pick up Chimichange and I wasn’t that impressed. I’m not saying I would never buy a book by Powell but he should concentrate more on the quality of his own work and less on belittling his possible future customers.
Will I get in trouble if I admit I didn’t watch the video?
very sad that the video was taken down… however, this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYta6YZS_U8 is still up. 🙂
Can’t wait for The Goon movie.
they need comics with sports theme in it like mangas (slam dunk, touch, h2, and eye shield 21.) lol