Special Edition Podcast

Special Edition – X-Men: The Last Stand! (UPDATE)

Show Notes

The conclusion to the film trilogy that begat the serious superhero film renaissance is finally upon us!

Despite some serious trepidations about the director, Team iFanboy is all over this film. The New York Office will be taking the film in Friday night at 8:45pm. The Los Angeles Office will screen the picture at 8:10pm PST.

Are you going to see it? Of course you are! This is one of the most anticipated geek films of the year – let’s talk about it!

And when you go see it, don’t forget to hang around after the credits!

UPDATE! The release of the third installment of the X-Men movies brings you a special edition of the iFanboy podcast, dedicated completely to the new movie.

Download Directly: ifanboy_podcast31A.mp3 – 25 MB (Right-click and choose “Save As…” and save locally on your computer) or you can get it through iTunes, ODEO or any of the other podcast programs listed at the top of the page.

Running Time: 36:26

Clickthrough to see what Ron thought of the movie… Just fair warning – this thread can and will contain SPOILERS so if you haven’t seen the film yet and want to go in fresh, avoid clicking through until after you’ve seen it.

Ron’s thoughts: No one wanted this movie to be good more than I did. I gave Ratner the benefit of the doubt and held judgement until I saw the movie in its entirety. Unfortunately, just about every one of my worst thoughts or worries about this movie came true. It felt rushed, cheap and lacked the vision of the comics that the previous 2 movies had. I don’t necessarily blame Ratner directly, as there had to been more people involved who should be focused on the quality of the movie (I’m looking directly at you Mr. Arad.), but the entire production as a whole should feel horrible because they went up to the plate and not only struck out, they fell down while swinging at ball 4.

Admittedly there were moments of the movie that I enjoyed:

  • The Beast was way better than I thought he would be.
  • Kitty Pryde finally delivered, after fleeting moments in the previous movies. She’s as important to the X-Men as Wolverine or Cyclops, if you ask me, and they got her right.
  • There were some vague characters that were done well (Arclight, sorta) and other little embedded references like having Trask working for the president etc.
  • Obviously I loved Madrox, he was perfect.


And there were things about the movie that I hated:

  • The way Cyclops was handled was embarrassing, especially for one of the core characters.
  • I’m sorry if you like the flash movie on YouTube, but having the Juggernaut say, “I’m the Juggernaut, bitch” was unnecessary
  • I thorough dislike the cyberpunk/post apocolyptic look of the majority of mutants in this movie. That’s just an obvious and tired cliche’
  • By mixing the Dark Phoenix story and Whedon’s “cure” story from Astonishing was a mistake. You could have easily gotten two good movies from both those stories, as opposed to one story that lacked the depth that made the first 2 movies quality
  • Such a shame to see Angel wasted. Could they have given him more than 3 or 4 lines and actually have his involvement in the story matter?
  • They cannot deny it, they skimped on the special effects
  • As much as I love that they gave us a fastball special, they blew it, it just looked awkward and ridiculous. Just because you have it in the movie, doesn’t make it a good thing.


So the summer starts off on a bad note. I really, really wanted, maybe even needed, this movie to be good. But unfortunately, it wasn’t, which makes me sad. But at the end of the day, it’s just a movie. I still have the comics and the past 2 movies. So as long as you can keep that perspective, then it’s fine. Onto Superman Returns!


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  1. Damn I didn’t know to stay after the credits.

    I thought that the movie was good, but that might be the fanboy in me talking.(I only saw it an hour ago) It wasn’t as good as X-2 but still it was worth seeing and there are plenty of moments in it to geek out on, like the danger room and the fastball special.

    I wasn’t excellent but I’ll probably see it again.

  2. I thought it was a bit of a let down really, it was too silly and whenever a story-line strayed from the comic book story-lines, they simply took a dull and unoriginal take on each aspect. For example SPOILERS: Phoenix was merely an alternate personality of Jean’s.

    There were lots of little but important things that I didn’t like about the film.Why exactly did Jean side with Magneto? At no point did he give a decent enough argument for us to believe Jean would side with him. And it wasn’t just Magneto’s persuasive speeches that lacked impact, his grand scheme was pretty poorly conceived too. And what was the point of Angel even being in the movie? It felt as if they had a sub-plot in there, but decided to cut it out at some point.

    It did however have its moments – the opening scene with a young Xavier and Erik was good, and there were a -few- nice reactions to the news about the cure.

    I dunno. Maybe I just had unrealistic expectations, but I thought it was merely ok.

  3. I’m going to the midnight tonight with my girlfriend, I’m ready and can hardly stand my self, I might just go to sleep to pass time fast, if face…good night everyone!

  4. unless my wife goes into labor, a distinct possibility, i’ll be there this weekend. looking forward to it–love big summer movies on opening weekend. i just wish i could stay awake during midnight shows…after the LOTR midnight shows, I just stopped going. i slept through Two Towers and Return of the King the first time.

  5. Just got back from seeing it, and…well I loved it. Yes it had it’s flaws, but overall, oh I loved it, and this isn’t the last one, it can’t be, it just can’t be

  6. Yeah, didn’t like it very much at all.
    I kept waiting for Jean to turn on Magneto, which would have been predictable, but by not turning on him it became stupid.
    Hey Logan, rather than KILLING HER, inject her with one of those little darts, OK?
    What started off as a great subplot with the little kid trying to cut off his wings ended up not being used at all. Oh well, director’s cut.
    Kittie Pryde RULED. RUUUUULED.
    I had to hold back from vomiting / laughing everytime Juggernaut was on the screen. He looked like a reject from gwar.

  7. Yeah Juggernaut was terrible. Really bad. And Introducing Beast wearing a suit in a room full of solemn looking similarly suited government types just emphasized how stupid he looked too. Don’t get me wrong, Kelsey grammar did a great job playing Beast, it’s just that he looked stupid. And magneto kept his powers despite being injected by 4 of those darts? pfft. PFFT I SAY.

    I’m not sure wether I’m working myself up into disliking this film more than it deserved simply because it didn’t meet my hopes for it, or if it was simply bad.

  8. I think this is a movie where expectations are going to make all the difference. I loved it, I really did. I don’t think it was the best movie ever, or even as good as X2, but I enjoyed it all the way through.

    Phoenix – There is no way they could represent the Phoenix on screen the way they did in the comics. First of all, I’m not sure the comics even make sense and second, it’d take a six-hour each trilogy to even approach the comic rendering of Phoenix. But then again, the movie Phoneix didn’t make sense to me either πŸ™‚

    I guess some of the dialog comes across as clunky, but still, there are some great lines. Soundtrack really didn’t grab me either. “I’m the Juggernaut, bitch!”? Classic.

  9. “I’m the Juggernaut, bitch!?”
    Don’t you get it? It’s a stupid internet youtube reference that snaked it’s way into the movie and wasn’t ever funny to begin with! That was the WORST!

    Watch it:

  10. Yeah, I’ve seen it and I thought it was great! Nice to see the humor in there.

    Couple new thoughts: We hardly got any introduction at all to the “new” members of the team: Kitty and Colossus. We’ve seen them before but in the previous X-Men movies we really knew the team, didn’t feel like that in this one.

    Why didn’t Wolverine hit Jean with mutant cure? Maybe ’cause he knows she’ll resurrect another 30 odd times πŸ˜‰ But maybe it has something to do with the “caged” thing he talked to Prof. X about. Dunno.

  11. I couldn’t agree more about the introduction of the characters. One moment they’re Junior Leagers and the next they’re X-Men. I would have wanted to see them developed a little more, even if Colossus (and Iceman!) looked absolutely ludicrous.

  12. Given the fact that Wolverine’s uniform, skin, and practically every destructable object in the near area was utterly destroyed just by being close to her, I would have thought it pretty darn stupid for a small, glass hyperdermic to survive the journey. There’s a reason Wolverine said he was the only one who could stop her. Without adamantium lacing or a healing factor, nothing or no one would have made it through.

  13. oh.

  14. Clear something up for me:
    Was Jaime Madrox EVER a comic book villain or is that just something Ratner and Co. thought up for the movie?

  15. I was really disappointed. I felt that mixing the idea of a cure and the Pheonix was a waste of a single movie. Either focus on one, or the other. Not both. LESS THAN TWO HOURS! For the supposed final movie in the X-Franchise (other than spinoffs)! Come on!

    The three deaths and the three power losses were pretty . . . I dunno . . . I mean why?



    Okay, does Fox have a total hate-on for Cyclops? Jeez! He went out like a bitch, and HE’S not freaking coming back! Xavier? Why kill Xavier anyway? And he jumped into the dude’s body? Was Xavier supposed to be the villian of this film? I understand the idea that Xavier wasn’t Mr. Wonderful, but geez! Talking abouth the ethics of jumping into that guy’s body, and then doing it? And then the whole Jean.Pheonix suppression thing? If I’m not mistaken, this was a part of the comics, but was it so sinister?

    I mean, sure Jean is going to die. She always dies. She will always come back. Xavier ceated death by stealing another mans body. But Cyclops?! The freaking leader of the X-Men? Goes out like a crying punk baby! Pissed me off.

    Now the three power losses. Mystique suprised me, and I wasn’t to adverse to seeing Ms Romain in the buff. It worked well with the plot, and although I think Mystique is an integral part of X-mythos, I could handle her power loss. The whole Rogue thing? Makes perfect sense. But MAgneto losing his powers? What?!? That made me beleive that the cure was about as permanent as the House of M loss of powers, and sure enough, Old Erik is sitting there playing chess by himself, nudging the metallic pieces with his “lost” powers. So, welcome back Mystique and Rogue.

    My largest gripe was with the inclusion of a lot of different mutants’ names. No visual cues or power similiarites for the most part.

    Multiple Man — brilliant! even down to the costume
    Beast — really enjoyed him, reminds me of the animated series version
    Kitty — probably the best of the new guard
    Angel — pretty cool, but just sort of eye candy, no real story behind him
    Spike — didn’t have a chance against Logan
    Arclight — a nice obscure mutant reference that I liked

    Now, these mutants apparently appeared in the film, but I either didn’t see them, or really felt that they were misapplied.

    Callisto — What? Speed? Arclight looked momre like Callisto than Callisto.
    Kid Omega/Quill — Why is this a mixup? Apparently Quill is credited as Kid Omenga in the credits. Huh?
    Psylocke — Invisibility, huh. Wow. What books were they reading for this movie?
    Syrin — Where?
    Artie — Where?
    Jubilee — Where?

    Two of my other mutant problems with this fim were with Colossus and Juggernaut.

    Why was Colossus even in this movie? To perform one fastball special and one wild pitch? Why was Kitty infatuated with Iceman? C’mon! Kitty and Peter, people! GEEZ!

    Juggernaut. Really. He’s a mutant, huh? Nope! Unless Leech can negate the powers of the apperently invilsible Crimson Ruby of Cyttorak, then they really screwed up another not hard characterization.

    And the Pheonix is an alternate personality of Jean?

    I was really hoping I’d like this movie. I was going into excited. And then, when Xavier got disentegrated, I knew that we were looking at a special effects-fest (10 sfx companies, btw) with apparently no love for the source material.

    Very disappointed, and I think that Marvel, were they wise, should stal the X-Men movie rights away from Fox. Such waste.

  16. I know I’ll probably get hung for this…but I didn’t mind the whole Juggernaut mutant thing, I thought I would, believe me. I’m an avid X-men reader for years now. But I think they they got rid of Crimson Ruby of Cyttorak, for the same reason the Phoenix dosen’t fight the Sh’iar. It’s a bit to mystical and spacey and thigns of that nature. I like to go in feeling that the movie has it’s own cannon, it’s diffrent from the comics, as it should be, if I wanted to see the comic again, I’d just read the comic. I feel they did a fine job with what they were given, sure I have my nit-picks and would have enjoyed more time for more character development. But since we didn’t get that, I’m just going to enjoy the stuff we, as a comic audiance did get, that the casual movie goer would not.

    Plus I can’t help but feel, and this is just my opinion, that the internet community (Not the iFanboy community, but the internet) will dislike this movie because it has the name “Ratner” on it, and that’s it, but again that’s just my opinion. I’m ready for X4

  17. “will dislike this movie because it has the name “Ratner” on it, and that’s it,”

    It’s a valid enough reason to dislike a movie.

  18. “Clear something up for me:
    Was Jaime Madrox EVER a comic book villain or is that just something Ratner and Co. thought up for the movie?”

    I the Ultimate Universe, he debuted as a villain. Even in the 616 Universe, he debuted fighting the Fantastic Four.

  19. Hey I just got back from the movie. I liked it alot. It’s the last X-men movie in probably a long while. I suspect maybe the amount of time between the last superman movie and the new one. They stuffed alot of stuff that they new comic geeks would like in there. A Lot! No, it did not hold up to the continuity or story logic of the comics but instead stuffed a lot of the themes into a two hour movie. I was hoping for a strongman contest between juggernaut and colossus and I don’t agree with the death of some of the characters, but all in all this one was closer to the books than the other two.

    Now, I didn’t know about the scene after the credits and didn’t stay for it. Somebody please tell me what it is.

  20. Even when you consider this movie as a standalone film, completely ignoring how it compares to comic books, it is a bad film.

    I completely understand and welcome that a film adaptation needs to veer heavily from the Comic book’s story-lines and characters, as not all of the ideas and themes translate to the medium of film.

    It is when changes are handled badly that annoys me; I concede that Phoenix was far too complex a character to represent unaltered in the film, but I also think that the choice they made for her was boring, unoriginal and then poorly portrayed. With Juggernaut, I agree that making him a mutant simplifies things for the better, but he did not need to be a ridiculous looking cockney comedic character.

  21. I think we have become so spoiled. We have already seen so much that it is very hard to please movie goers now. I didn’t expect the Godfaher or the Unforgiven. It was a eye candy movie. It was filled with action from start to finish. They portrayed many of the themes that we are all familiar with. It was a good popcorn summer blockbuster. I didn’t feel like I wasted my money when I left. My kids liked it. We had fun. It was better than either of the first two because there was more action and more characters. Although, where the heck was Nightcrawler?

  22. Cyclops was merely assumed dead, unless I missed something. I’m pretty sure they made his fate ambiguous in case a forth movie was made and Marsden wanted back in.

  23. This was a train wreck of epic (Batman Forever) proportions. I need some time to collect my thoughts to properly convey how utterly horrid this movie was.

    I think this might warrant a special podcast.

    I’m off to call Ron to make sure he hasn’t eaten a gun.

  24. Boo to all of you.

    I loved the movie and I thought that there’d be more lvoe for it among the other X-Fanboys. All of the adjustments and edits that they made I thought were in reasonable taste, given that the material was being presented in a tight, 90 minute summer blockbuster package.

    That said, I do agree that some of the characters in the movie were somewhat unnecessary. Angel didn’t do anything, Colossus didn’t do enough (and , sadly, still has no Russian accent), and that Morlock with the spitcurl and the shockwave powers annoyed the hell out of me (I wanted to comb her hair straight the entire flick).

    On the plus side of things, Moira Mactaggert was a hottie, in the sexy scientist sort of way and Kitty Pride made the movie for me. And I enjoyed the Juggernaut internet cartoon reference (yeah, yeah, so what.)

    X3 rooooolz!!!!1111

  25. I thought Beast kicked ass

  26. All the problems with this movies stem for the fact that it was 104 mins long. If you are A) going to tackle two huge plots, the cure and the Phoenix, and, most of all, B) end a high profile trilogy, 2 to 2.5 hrs is a bare minimum. I mean, did X2 seem too long? Or maybe this, focus on one plot line. And way to kill characters for dramatic effect (although I know its done in comics all the time) I was so into the movie until Xavier got torched; then I almost walked out of the theater.

    Did anyone else see a little Gandalf in Magnetos speeches? The way he almost sings “Fury that this world has never witnessed” and others.

    Can they retcon movies? I hope Singer comes back and gives the merry x-men a proper end. And give Psyloke a bigger part, dammit!

    On the good side I was glad to see the hommages to the comics Such as

    The sentinels
    The fastball speacial (but colossus is Russian, Ratner)
    and Dr. Kavita Rao from Whedons story line

  27. I should really proof before I post

  28. Did anyone see Claremont? Real fanboys spot Claremont.

  29. I’m telling ya, I think expectations were a little too high. Especially considering the first two movies. Now spider-man’s movie track record is much different and I expect a much better movie when S3 comes out.

    We got to see Colossus throw Wolverine to a sentinel and chop it’s head off for Christ’s sake. From the movie makers prospective they’re giving us geeks what they think we want. They crammed themes from Claremont, Whedon and others. I was also entertained by the continued Marvel theme of the Stan Lee cameo.

    I didn’t agree with professor X getting the aXe ;-p, among others. I guess I’ve seen enough stupid movies to know that movie makers are gonna change things to suit them. Their egos, or whatever are big enough that they don’t care about the source material that much.

    IMHO it was better than the first two, and not as bad as FF or Daredevil. Now that Marvel is creating it’s own studio and will have total creative control of the future super hero movies made in their name, we should get stuff that doesn’t veer that far from the source.

  30. The iFanboys have talked it over and we’re going to record a special podcast dealing solely with X-Men: The Last Stand, since there is just so much to talk about.

    Look for it soon!

  31. Cool. I’m glad it isn’t just me that thought it was crap.

    I’ve read reviews on this film saying stuff like ‘this film shines in that it gives the fanboys exactly what they want – the fastball special, two new major character’ etc.

    This is crap. i work in a comic book store, and trust me, the fanboys are pissed. Slapping in a fastball special doesn’t erase the fact that it was used in a crap movie. The characters and storylines were messed around with so that any fan will be angry that their favorite characters and stories are incorrectly represented.

  32. Is Ron still with us? I’m surprised he hasn’t posted anything.

    Thats the last straw! Cyclops, Prof. X, Psyloke … and now Ron. Ratner must die!

  33. I saw Claremont in the credits, but that’s all.

  34. He had the lawnmower in the begining. Right before Stan The Man.

  35. Bingo.

  36. I didn’t realize how old Claremont was till I saw him in that scene, I mean I knew the man wasn’t a brisk 30 or even 40 but…man

  37. Well look on the bright side. Its a hell of a lot better than that crapy Captain America flick that came out way back when. Or that Punisher with Dolph Lundgrin. As long as they keep the qulity above those B movie crappers I’m happy

    And the X3 video game is awsome.

  38. I didn’t realize how old Claremont was till I saw him in that scene, I mean I knew the man wasn’t a brisk 30 or even 40 but…man

    He’s 56.

  39. Yea, that bit. Big time. What the heck was going on with that movie? There’s too much to scream about. First of all, Storm = teh sux. Holy hell was the acting, characterization and everything about her bad. She didn’t have a meaningful relationship with ANY of the characters. I loved that Angel was in it. I hated that he had no reason to be in it at all.

    And then they seemed to go around and create random mutants. There was no reason for half of them. Why not use characters that Fanboys would recognize instead of making what seemed to be the Blob and then having him shrink. Oy.

    Beast looked bad, but Kelsey Grammar was great. Much better than I expected. But that was not enough to do this movie right. I mean, for the love of god, they made two great movies before this one, and then they destroy the characterization that they’ve built on it.

    One of the things that I thought was ridiculously stupid was not just the Jugs in general, but specifically, the scene where he’s chasing Kitty through the lab and they get to where the boy is and then he tries to run through a wall and he gets knocked out…

    So… He lost his mutant powers and his helmet loses the power to protect his head? Good god. It stunk. I do hate Cyclops and Jean Grey, so I’m kinda glad they got the axe, and I think Storm shoulda gotten it too, but everyone else? Come on.

    Oh, and Nightcrawler wasn’t in it because Alan Cumming (who played him in X2) didn’t want to do it. He HATED the makeup and ripped the movie a couple times in interviews. I think that probably had something to do with it.

  40. In my opinion, anyone who is seriously complaining about X-Men 3 is complete and total crybaby.

    I mean, come on, it’s a comic book movie for Pete’s sake. I enjoyed the heck out of it — as did my 10-year-old son. (“That was great, Dad, thanks for taking me.”) Sure, there were a few plot holes and some groaner lines, but so what. This thing delivered to the masses, and you know it.

    You had Magneto taking apart the freaking Golden Gate bridge and tossing flaming cars at his enemies. You had carnage left and right, with non-stop action.

    Now I know X-Men is all about the characters, but there’s only so much time in a movie. It could be seven hours long and some of you would still complain about the dynamics of the relationships. Get over yourselves and the precious X-Men canon of stories. This is a different medium trying to grab a vastly larger audience than adult white males.

    As for the screenwriters adhering to the source material, give it up. The written word to the screen is NEVER going to be perfect.

    So quit nitpicking and just try to enjoy something for what it is: a comic book movie.

  41. As someone who doesn’t read many X-Men books and is only a casual fan of the movies, I can be relatively objective about the movie. Or at least try. Here are some thoughts:

    -The action was pretty great and took advantage of the assembly of character powers and abilities. And this is from someone who avoids most action movies because I find nothing more dull, ironically, that explosion after chase scene after gunfight for the sake of it. (As an example, while watching The Island on DVD, I literally fast-forwarded through the big action sequences.) But the action throughout was well done, especially the final stand at the end. I liked the way Beast and Wolverine kicked ass.

    -Kitty Pryde was great. And this has nothing to do with the movie’s merits, but I’ve got a thing for Anna Paquin, so just having Rogue in the movie scores points with me…

    -…even though they completely sell out her character. And though the scene with the young Angel was great, it was a shame the handling of the character was so hamfisted the rest of the way. They clearly had no idea how to use him in the final edit. As soon as they hung his dad out the window, I’d knew he come swooping in. Ho-hum.

    -I really didn’t believe Cyclops had actually died, I kept expecting him to pop up again with some explanation. And then even though Xavier was obliterated, I didn’t really believe that either. But as the movie went on, I finally decided they must be serious, and it all left an odd nagging void in the movie. While I do appreciate the intention to bring real consequences to the characters, it kinda seemed they went too far, and were almost indiscriminate considering they knocked off the two leaders of the team, and this all lessened whatever emotional impact this might have had.

    -Call me old and crabby, but the “I’m Juggernaut bitch” line was embarassingly juvenile and totally pulled me out of the movie. It’s just easy pandering, the kind of by-the-numbers big-summer-movie tagline that moviemakers feel they have to put in to give crowds something to cheer and laugh at. But it’s so obviously contrived, it just breaks me out of whatever suspension of disbelief I might have accumulated up until that point.

    Overall, I’d give the movie 2 stars. For me, it was just something kinda fun to do on a Friday night, and it more or less delivered that. But if this had been about characters I’m more invested in, I might think otherwise. For example, if in Spidey 3 they kill off Aunt May and have the Sandman say, “I’m the Sandman, bitch” to MJ, you’ll probably have to talk me off the same ledge that Ron is probably looking down over. Which is to say, I totally understand if X-fans hated it.

  42. You’re wrong.
    It’s a comic book movie but it’s not ‘just’ a comic book movie. Action/Fantasy film has reached new heights in recent years, look at the LOTR movies or even Spider-Man 2. There’s an emotional depth and (I hate to use the word) gravitas that didn’t necessarily exist in these films before. If you want to train yourself to expect and enjoy the worst in film then be my guest, but as far as I’m concerned, that shit’s for the birds.
    I realize that I sound a little uppity trying to differentiate an X-Men film from something like Doom or whatever, but that’s the way it’s going to be from now on. I’m going to expect the world from creators like Peter Jackson and Brian Singer and from movies like The Fountain and A Scanner Darkly from now on.
    If I want to see a popcorn flick I’ll go see a popcorn flick.

  43. …. and Magneto moving the bridge and lobbing cars was fantastic.

  44. for all of you curious as to what I thought, download the podcast or scroll up for some of my thoughts at the top of the page.

    For now, I’m going to drown my sorrows in some well barbequeued meat.

  45. I mean, come on, it’s a comic book movie for Pete’s sake.

    Does that mean regular standards of film quality go out the window because it features superheroes? X-Men and X2 were good films.

    Now I know X-Men is all about the characters, but there’s only so much time in a movie. It could be seven hours long and some of you would still complain about the dynamics of the relationships.

    And that was one of the biggest problems – it was an hour and forty minutes and they crammed WAY TOO MANY characters in it so that fanboys could go “Oooh! – there’s Psylocke!” There was no time to get to know anyone.

    Get over yourselves and the precious X-Men canon of stories. This is a different medium trying to grab a vastly larger audience than adult white males.

    The first two films made some money, no?

    As for the screenwriters adhering to the source material, give it up. The written word to the screen is NEVER going to be perfect.

    I’ve seen this complaint, but it’s not one that I have about the movie. Adapting comic book films to screen is about adapting the core of characters, not adapting them literally, and this film blew it big time. It was almost unrecognizable from the first two films.

  46. I thought it was BETTER than the first two. They were too slow, they didn’t have enough characters and they didn’t follow the source material either. Do any of you think this film was as bad as FF or Daredevil?

    I’m with St. Paul Doug. My kids liked it too. Yes they could have done it better. Call me shallow. I was satisfied. I was somewhat disappointed with the first two so my expectations for this one were not very high. Maybe that’s the reason I was pleasantly surprised.

  47. I thought it was BETTER than the first two. They were too slow, they didn’t have enough characters and they didn’t follow the source material either. Do any of you think this film was as bad as FF or Daredevil?

    If you wanted mindless action, then great, this was the film for you. Those of us who liked the intelligent drama of the first two films were punched in the gut.

    Yes, this film was on par with Fantastic Four and Daredevil. It’d put it at worse than FF and slightly better than DD.

  48. Yeah I think this was worse than FF and Daredevil. I just saw it for the second time (I thought maybe with a second viewing it might be better – I’d focus more of the actual film rather than the events within, if that makes sense) but this film was simply bad.

    I’m glad that this film managed to entertain your kids, and I think that a big blockbuster movie like this should be able to entertain children, but that should not be the limit of its aspirations.

    The film was simply badly made, the script was weak, the plot too grandiose for the amount of time they had to present it, and the characters badly realized.


    (See, cuz we’re having a civil war.)

    Here’s the thing, this is all about expectations. People who expect a popcorn movie to be popcorny will have no problem with this. But if you believe that the term comic book refers only to the way the work was published, and doesn’t mean that something can’t be mature and intelligent, and interesting, then you will probably have come to expect more of a movie like this, since X1 and X2 were so good.

    Now that’s just an opinion, but cinematically, the majority opinion is that the Singer X men movies were in fact excellent films.

    I have come to expect a movie about the X-Men as a movie that seems like it’s about blowing things up, but underneath is a drama about tolerance and this group of interesting chracters. When you take out the drama part, I’m no longer interested, and I think that’s what you’re hearing from the dissenters.

    But, we all have different expectations for these films, and that’s owing to different tastes. But it’s fair to say that the precedent set for these movies set the bar high for people expecting a good film, not just a quote-unquote “comic book movie,” a term I take exception to, as it suggests that since it’s from a comic book, it has not right to be a quality film. The idea that something comes from a comic book does not mean it’s a crappy, summer, action blockbuster with no soul and using lame racist jokes about asian tourists and their cameras and whose script doesn’t really need to be cohesive, because the beautiful people on screen have amazing abs, tits, and teeth. I reject that notion entirely.

  50. Well I will say that I have still never seen the daredevil movie in it’s entirety because it was so bad that was unable to sit through it. (and no way this was as bad as FF….)

    Here is my ranking of the modern marvel movies. I would like to see others lists.

    1) Spider-man 2
    2) Spider-man 1
    3) Hulk
    4) X3
    5) X2
    6) X1
    7) Electra
    8) Punisher
    9) FF
    10) Daredevil

    If I were to include modern comic movies in general, Sin City would be #1. (Man I wish Frank Miller made the Daredevil movie). Batman begins would be #4 behind Hulk ( I don’t know; I might put it after X3 ). I haven’t seen V. I would put Hellboy after X1 and before Electra. I just recently re-read DD #181, the death of Electra. That one comic was better than a lot of these movies.

  51. Okay, I’ll play. Modern Marvel movie ranking:

    1) X-Men 2
    2) Spider-Man 2
    3) The Hulk
    4) X-Men
    5) Spider-Man
    6) The Punisher
    7) Fantastic Four
    8) X-Men: The Last Stand
    9) Daredevil
    10) Elektra (Haven’t seen it – don’t plan to)

    I count the “modern age of comic book movies” as starting in 2000 with Bryan Singer’s X-Men. I don’t count any of the Blade movies as the series started before then.

  52. I’ll play too! but only with the movies I’ve seen:

    1. X2
    2. Spider-Man 2
    3. X-Men
    4. Spider-Man
    5. Fantastic Four
    6. Hulk
    7. X-Men The Last Stand
    8. Daredevil

    I still have to rent The Punisher and Elektra.

  53. fun!

    1) Spider-man 2
    2) X2
    3) Blade
    4) The Hulk
    5) Spider-man
    6) Blade Trinity
    7) X-men
    8) The Punisher
    9) Blade 2
    10) The Fantastic Four
    11) Daredevil
    12) X-Men: The Last Stand
    13) Elektra

    Elektra was terrible, but the Punisher is definitely worth a watch.

  54. Oh what the heck!

    1) X2
    2) Hulk
    3) X1
    4) Spider-man 2
    5) Punisher
    6) X3
    7) Spider-man
    8) Daredevil (Original version)
    9) Fantastic Four
    10) Elektra (I saw it…and it made me sad)

  55. The movie opened to the 4th highest box office weekend for any movie ever (est $107 million over 3 days). So regardless of how most of us here felt about the movie we are probably going to get more of the same in future installments. I know they said this is the last one, but come on – are they really going to give up on a franchise that is making this much money? And Ratner will be along for the ride I am sure. Damn it.

  56. No way! I do not believe Ratner will do another for. 1. He was just a fill in director 2. He was not a fan of X-men to begine with (this may have changed seeing is it has now made him alot of money), and 3. he stated he is going to go work on Rush Hour 3.

    Personaly I would like to see Joss Whedon do X4 if it gets the green light. But that of couse would have to wait tell after Wonder Woman so thats a long shot. But at liest Joss would do it corectly.

  57. Uh…Little fuzzy on some of the memories, but:

    1) X2
    2) Spider-man 2
    3) X-men
    4) Spider-man
    5) Blade
    6) Blade 2
    7) Blade Trinity
    8) Hulk (really good attempt at something that I don’t think was successful. Admire them for trying.)
    9) X-Men: The Last Stand (Not really bad, as much as just not good)
    10)Daredevil (which I really enjoyed the first time, but on further viewing…rough.)
    11) Punisher (just really awful. Angel was in this too! Spacker. Jane was good casting though!)

  58. I would have loved to see Matthew Vaughn’s take on this. I really liked Layer Cake a lot. It was so much more subtle and intelligent than Guy Richie’s movies. Stupid “family committments!”

  59. A friend of mine saw this movie and suggested I go see it. “Not because you’ll like it,” he added, “but because I will enjoy hearing you rant about it afterwards.” I may just forward this URL to him.

    The thing where this movie was reputed to suck, and America went anyway, and it made $45 million in a day? That’s why Avi Arad doesn’t care. Or have to.

    Now that I’ve said that, this will probably end up being my favorite of the three.

  60. A bad movie making a ton of money is not unusual. Unfortunately, some will mistake quality for profitability.

    I wonder if Claremont and Cockrum, or Byrne will be taking home any money for this? (this is not a debate starter, rather a genuine curiosity.)

  61. I know it seems like because it broke records there’s going to be a forth, it seems obvious. But remember, that Daredevil broke records it opening weekend, and there’s no “Daredevil II: The Return of the Radioactive blinding juice!”

  62. I can’t really add anything to what people have said so far. I didn’t stay for the post end credits bit (damn my foolishness), someone please tell me what it was because I’m not going to the cinema to see it again.
    The film was ok but it lacked the touch of a good director.
    Very bad special effects at the beginning with young Prof and Mags.

  63. The final scene was Moira McTaggert with the guy whose body had no consciousness and all of a sudden it says to her in Preofessor X’s voice “Moira” and she says “Charles?” all freaked out-like.

    Funny, I thought the de-aging effects worked okay.

  64. My feelings on X-Men: The Last Stand are quite curious. I don’t know if it was because I walked into the theatre with such low expectations or if I was too tired for my brain to process it all, but I actually enjoyed the movie. Definitely not on par with the first two, but enjoyable nonetheless. After hitting the ol’ interweb post-viewing and checking out everyone’s reviews/thoughts, I can’t help but understand/agree with the faults that many have found with the film, and now find myself questioning how much I truly liked this movie. There is one that I am sure of, though. All of the issues people have had with the movie boil down the very point that Ron made in the podcast: the movie was rushed.

    There’s a great article on Aint It Cool from about a year ago (read it here: http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=20443) that discusses development (or mis-development, if you will) of X3. To sum it up, Fox took their sweet time in giving the movie a green light and by the time they did, Singer had moved on to Superman so Fox mandated that the film be released before Superman Returns as a nice “F You!” to Singer and, as a result, to the fans of the franchise as well.

    I was re-watching some of the special features from the X2 DVD last week and the one thing that stuck with me was that how much time was spent on the script: 12 hour days working on the script in pre-production and constantly tinkering during production. You can’t help but wonder how good The Last Stand could have been if had been given the same amount of time to develop/produce.

    With The Last Stand, I feel that I could completely explain the movie with bullet-point plot details where as I don’t think I could even come close to doing the same with X2; many of the great moments in X2 (and to a lesser extent, the first X-Men) come from scenes that don’t necessarily push the story forward but offer a little insight into the characters or the world they exist in (the brief scene between Mystique and Nightcrawler in X2 comes to mind as a good example of this). I feel that there were many opportunities in The Last Stand for these moments and really want to believe that given the time and opportunity, they would have found their way into the movie.

    I think writing this out has made me even more confused about my feelings on the film. Maybe I liked the promise of what the film could have been more than the film itself. I might have to see it again to find out.

  65. I thought it worked OK as well, but there was something CREEPY about it.

  66. … many of the great moments in X2 (and to a lesser extent, the first X-Men) come from scenes that don’t necessarily push the story forward but offer a little insight into the characters or the world they exist in (the brief scene between Mystique and Nightcrawler in X2 comes to mind as a good example of this). I feel that there were many opportunities in The Last Stand for these moments and really want to believe that given the time and opportunity, they would have found their way into the movie.

    I couldn’t have said it better myself, Kyle.

  67. Me too.

  68. Honestly, as sad as this is, I gave up all hope once Singer left. Since I expected a terrible piece of trash, I was suprised. The movie was only a slight piece of trash.

    I will agree that Dark Phoenix was too much to go into, as well as the cure. Why was Angel and Collosus even in the movie? They did squat.

    The Brotherhood consisted of Quill, Arclight, and Pyro? Would it be too hard to throw on some interesting characters?

  69. Not Quill…Kid Omega.


  70. What can we expect if Ratner directs a Wolverine movie?
    Thanks for the post credit decription by the way.

  71. What can we expect?

    Chris Tucker…

  72. So sorry that the term “comic book movie” irritated everyone so much. But facts are facts. Movies that Hollywood truly takes seriously as pieces of art are released near the end of the year, for Oscar consideration.

    And even genre movies that are truly great — such as “Beauty and the Beast,” “Shrek” or “Spider-Man 2” — are routinely ignored.

    Sure, the LOTR movies were recently in the mix for three straight years, but each chapter should have won Best Picture — not just Return Of The King. A huge snub.

    But I digress. Movies released on Memorial Day weekend that feature comic book heroes are there primarily to make money. To wish for anything different is a nice wish, but in my humble opinion, not too realistic.

    I’d love it if the movies were as great as some of the comic book scripts, but Hollywood knows it doesn’t need to deliver in every case. Don’t like it? Boycott.

    I’m sorry you’re disappointed in the movie, but some of us geeks thought it was better than the first two. Way better. I can’t wait for it to come out on DVD.

  73. Who said anything about Oscars? All we want is the high level of filmmaking that was established in the first two films.

    Movies don’t have to be dumbed down in order to make money.

  74. I’m sure there is someone in a suit somewhere saying, “If Fantastic Four does as well as X2, isn’t all that hard work and thinking a waste of everyone’s time?” And as much as I wish everyone in America would stay home in droves when expensive dumb stuff comes out, it just never seems to happen. Was that a Fast & Furious 3 trailer I saw?…

    The dialogue was whatever the opposite of “quotable” is; nothing makes me wince like smart characters written by dumb guys. (An antibody that attacks a gene? Are you sure?) There weren’t many character-developing moments, and the ones that were attempted sort of embarrassed me.

    But you know…? It was okay. I thought it would kill me, and it mildly wounded me. I think, looking back, maybe all that Anakin/Padme romantic dialogue a few years ago was like some kind of emotional immunization.

  75. And in my opinion, the third film was at a higher level of filmmaking than the previous two. For me, it delivered. Like it or not, Ratner delivered. I don’t feel it was dumbed down at all. A few groaner lines, sure — but that’s Hollywood.

  76. If you can look at X2 and then look at X-Men: The Last Stand and say that the latter was made with a higher level of craft, then… I guess I can’t say anything to refute that. If that’s what you believe, that’s what you believe.

  77. “I love what you’ve done with your hair”

    that’s more than a groaner

  78. Okay, well, I liked the movie. I did not like it at the same level as I did the first two, but I was still entertained at a “popcorn movie” level.

    There was little depth to the characters. Storm’s lines were forced and had no impact on me other than to make me snicker. Beast wasn’t much more than a blue furry guy in a suit. Colossus (one of my favorite X-Men) had like two lines and the same with Angel (another of my favorite X-Men). Cyclops dead? What’s that about?

    I could go on, but I think most of the bad has already been said above.

    Now personally, I had been nervous about X3 from the moment that the last one ended and I was walking out of the theater. The Phoenix is tied in with all of that cosmic stuff, and I couldn’t see how Singer was going to be able to pull off a story that would stay true to the comic book one and at the same time have the depth of realism that the other two films had. Then when Singer was not going to be involved in the sequel, my expectations lowered. However, creators change all of the time in comics. I don’t believe any one writer or artist’s interpretation of these characters is any more “true” than another’s. I don’t think it is fair to judge Ratner’s X-Men by the standards of Singer’s. He is a different creator with a different vision of who the X-Men are. I doubt anyone has any problem with that and it seems that the problem that many people have is that X3 is a bad film because of its mediocre acting and a convoluted story.

    So why did X3 entertain me? I started reading comics on the 90’s and this was a film that captured X-Men from the 90’s. Granted, the 90’s might not have had many of the X-Men’s greatest moments, but those were the X-Men that I came to know. X3 took me back to being twelve years old and watching mutants clobber mutants and “I’m the Jugernaught, bitch!” line cracked me up, because I took myself to that middle-school level and had fun with it.

    A couple good things with this movie.

    We finally got to see a Danger Room sequence (although, I would rather have seen a classic one with swinging blade and a giant spiked metal ball).
    I thought Kelsey Grammer was pretty good as Beast (although, I thought there was supposed to be a Saint CrispinοΏ½s Day speech???).

    The twenty-five year old with a degree in English wasn’t very impressed by X3, but the twelve year old who had a lot of fun reading Colossus leave the X-Men and Xavier shut down Magneto’s brain, he had fun at X3.

  79. I think showing a trailer for Superman Returns before X-men just makes everyone look and go… “Ohhhhh” Because the shots in Superman just look gorgious, just gorgious, then you get to X3 which is just style, not much beauty. Now I liked X3, but I’m not going to lie to myself and go “beautiful shots.” Nope, just no.

  80. How about this…having seen the change in quality of storytelling when comparing X3 to the previous X-Men movies…I am now very excited for Superman Returns and believe that movie is going to be a great improvement on that film franchise. So X3 has actually made me quite excited for Superman Returns, which was unexpected.

  81. I don’t think any of the ifanboy staff “expected” this movie to be good, and were therefore disappointed. I expected to not like it. But I have very high standards. I’m a bit of a snob when it comes to movies, and took a lot of film classes in school and really appreciate when a film is made with a lot of thoughtfulness and quality. Conversely, I cringe at bad made-for-the-masses films. But not all summer blockbusters are stupid. Some can be quite entertaining and of high quality. (just recently I saw MI3, and it actually didn’t suck!) There are many more examples of this.

    This X movie felt more like the stupid variety (more like XXX), and while I can understand why someone would like it, it’s certainly not what I look for in a movie, but the fact is, if you thought this was a film of higher quality than the 2 movies Bryan Singer directed, this discussion has nowhere to go at all, because we’re working with a different set of standards, and I’m guessing this isn’t the only thing we would disagree on. But regardless, there’s not much point in arguing, because I know that no one is going to convince me it was good, and I have no desire to convince someone who liked a movie that it was in fact, a steaming hunk of awful.

    I think I’m in the camp of people who said they saw it and didn’t mind it at the time, but the more they got thinking about it after walking out, the more clear it was that this was not a good film. Same thing happened with Daredevil, and War of the Worlds, to name a few. And that’s really the test of a good film. It can be enjoyable at first, but when pressed up to greater scrutiny, it’s got to hold up. This isn’t how everybody evaluates their entertainment, but it is how I do it.

  82. Personally I had hoped the movie was going to be good.

    I didn’t have expectations for it to be either, Iw as reserving judgement/expecations until I was sitting there and watching it.

    which actually provided a greater level of disappointment.

  83. I’m totally excited for Superman now. Same thing. I think it’ll be great.

  84. I’m about 25 years removed from a college film class, but I’m pretty sure I know “steaming hunk of awful” when I see it.

    “Steaming hunk of awful” is Batman & Robin. “Steaming hunk of awful” is Howard The Duck. (My wife still hits me in the shoulder every time she remembers that I dragged her to that one.) (And she hits me hard.)

  85. I wouldn’t call X-Men: The Last Stand akin to Batman & Robin, but I’d sure call it akin to Batman Forever.

  86. Better than “Deuce Bigalow: European Gigolo.” I can only assume.

    I don’t know that the hunk was actually producing steam, but it definitely looked like it was made on an entirely different planet than its predecessors, a planet with a different color palette. I think about things like the attack on the school in X2 and compare them to the fight in the Greys’ house, or compare the Magneto prison break to the Mystique prison break, and it seems like one of them was done by a kid who had too many bowls of Lucky Charms. Just a bit too much sugar and ADHD.

  87. I’ll give you that it doesn’t stink on the surface as much as all that, but under the surface, I found nothing of substance to attract me. At least you can watch Batman and Robin and laugh at how bad it is.

    I’m glad you liked it. I didn’t think it was very good at all. I think Ratner is an extremely mediocre director, and sometimes a mediocre film is worse in its way than an outright terrible film.

    Clearly, the audiences of america voted with their dollars, making this the new model for a “successful superhero movie.” So what will happen is that they’ll make more like this (yaaay Deathlok!)

    I’m moving on, and looking forward to Superman, and hoping they manage to get a follow up to Batman Begins with Chris Nolan in charge up on the screen.

    By the way, film classes don’t make me smarter about movies in the way that “I know more than you, so I’m right,” but they did make me more picky, which is probably detrimental to my enjoyment of things I wouldn’t have otherwise thought about. But I wasn’t suggesting that I’m better informed, or that my opinion is more or less valid than anyone else’s. I’m just saying that my background colors my opinion, heavily.

    If any of you had any idea about how heavily the opinions on film vary within the ifanboy staff, you’d be amazed. Some of Conor’s favorite movies make me scream out in anguish, and the films Ron classifies as masterpieces place me in physical pain. I’m only unique in my dislike of sooooo many things. But we did all agree on this movie.

  88. i was alarmed by the degree to which I didn’t hate this movie.

    I have been a pretty vocal detractor of the idea of Brett Ratner making this movie. many things I read about it made me irritable. I was convinced they didn’t “get it.”

    i didn’t think it was great, but as roger ebert often suggests asking, did the movie do what it set out to do? I think so, absolutely. i’d put it on par with the original X-Men in that regard. I think it was CNN that said it was the “return of the jedi” of x-men movies, and that’s spot on to me. lots of potential, some of it realized, and at the end of the day, still a great ride.

    there’s a lot to take apart and pick the shit out of here, so I’ll just say this one controversial statement and leave it there: I think they did NOT mangle the Phoenix storyline. this was my biggest fear going in and I was prepared to be hugely disappointed.

    to me, they fully realized a version of Phoenix that worked within its own universe and packed an emotional punch. the second scene at jean grey’s house was incredibly well done. well written, well acted, well executed in terms of special effects. it gave an emotional payoff to the end of x2, as did the conclusion at alcatraz.

    they bungled plenty. cyclops’ death, rogue, angel, even kitty were totally wasted and unnecessary. but they hit as many balls as they missed, and it made me very happy. i had a great time, and was emotionally invested.

    now, please hack me to shreds. πŸ™‚

  89. i figured it out.

    x-men 3 is like a video game. the way it plays out, the story and everything, and the viewer is the guy sitting next to the guy with the controller going “no, what are you doing? you’re not playing it right”. it definitly had a video game feel to it though: advance a level to some action, fight some lackys, little story in between while the game loads.

  90. also, i didn’t hate the movie, i think of it as an elseworlds movie…or maybe a “what if…nothing from the x-comics mattered”

    other than names, and some powers i don’t see the connection to the comics.

    psylocke can turn invisable?

    juggernaut is a mutant?

    i see some connections with some stories, but they are so far removed.

    it only makes sense in the context of the film if your trying to push as many reconizable names into the movie as you can, so more people go “WOW-neat-o”

    juggernaught should have been the blob. maybe add scarlet witch and quicksilver instead of spike boy and running around girl.

    sure the fact they killed off cyclops sucks, but i’ve always seen the jean/scott romance as the one that breaks all the molds…with their mind link and everything…we didn’t see him die, so he should have had a comeback at the end…FUCK WOLVERINE. jean has a wierd lust thing for the guy but she loves scott…making it a jean/logan thing is all wrong but EVERYONE loves wolverine. so cool with those pointy claws.

  91. Ok, so I haven’t seen it yet but I will. I’m certain will not like it as much since our 3 amigos (That’s you 3 iFanboys) agree that it wasn’t that good. The 1st 2 were great and all due to Singer’s talent for directing writing and whatever else he does. He sure knows drama and does it jus right! Yes, I am a Singer fanboy. Apt Pupil and Usual Suspects were jaw dropping and right up my alley (sure, not all share the same tastes in style, and that’s ok).

    So, I not much of a Superman buff but the movie has me pumped! I’m sure this will not just please fanboys, but will make little giggling girls out of grown women and men alike! Yes, it will be that good! The drama, action and fx’s melded in a great ball of style and substance that are sorely lacking in today’s blockbusters (which are mostly shit, me prefer foreign films BTW). X3 will gross millions, still, it doesn’t make it a good film, just an entertaining one. BIG Macs also sell millions and they are shit so… go figure.

    Oh, and the reason for my posting here? WIRED mag just arrived in the mail and the cover is… Brian Singer!!! Hahahahahaha…!!!!! Haven’t opened it yet, listened to the podcast first and all. Guys, really enjoy your podcast, great to hear mature (well, for the most part, we are all kids at heart anyway!) comic critiques. Super jobs!!!

  92. I’ve been reading X-Men since about 1997, and I didn’t really have a problem with any of the changes, especially the shift of the focus from Cyclops to Wolverine. If you’ve got a 210 million dollar budget, who do you want to be the emotional tentpole of the film, Jackman or Marsden? Yeah, he cried a lot, but at least he didn’t get knocked out every ten minutes like he did in the first film. Sorry, I love The Dark Phoenix Saga as much as anyone, but the more they jetisoned from that story, the better.

    As for Ratner, while I wouldn’t call him a director with great finesse, but I appreciated the economy of X3. Didn’t let the camera meander too long; just gave it to us hard and fast, like a good Saturday night date.

    Oh, and Storm’s been killing people since the first film.

  93. Oops, I meant to say that I have been reading X-Men since 1977!

  94. On the heels of all this…


    Marvel Entertainment, Inc. (NYSE: MVL), a global character-based entertainment and licensing company, today announced that the company has entered into a new arrangement with Avi Arad to independently produce films for Marvel under his own production company banner, Avi Arad Productions. In this new capacity, Mr. Arad will remain actively involved in Marvel’s upcoming film slate, including Iron Man and Hulk, the first two films anticipated to be financed and produced by Marvel under its new film financing slate. Mr. Arad will also remain attached to produce various licensed productions, including the upcoming Spider-Man 3, scheduled for release next year, and subsequent sequels. Consistent with this restructuring, Mr. Arad is resigning from his corporate positions as Chairman and CEO of Marvel Studios, Chief Creative Officer of Marvel and a Marvel director, but will continue to serve as Creative Advisor for Marvel through the remainder of 2006.


  95. This could be a bad thing… “and on the heels of the tremendous success of X-Men: The Last Stand”

    This is going to remove Avi further from Marvel, and I think it might mean that he has looser restrictions over how faithful a movie has to be to the comic that it is based on.

    I hope this isn’t the case.

  96. i’m mixed on arad leaving…on one hand he’s a key player in the marvel film renaissance; on the other hand, I think his overall record has been more miss than hit, or at least about even, in terms of the artistic success of the films, if not the box office. and even though I liked x3, a few of the things he said in the press didn’t really jibe with me (such as his line someplace about the phoenix story not having legs to carry a whole movie–yeah, RIGHT).

    plus, and again I say this as a fan of x3, looking at the two most recent big Marvel movies–FF and x3–it’s clear that either avi’s been losing his touch a bit, or someone else is in the mix making decisions that he can’t override anymore.

  97. My reading might be wrong on this, but here’s what I think.

    This is a power play for Arad, who says, “fuck this Marvel salary, I’ve got a track record as a successful producer now, so I don’t need them to make a truckload more money.”

    As far as Arad protecting the ever precious marvel properties, that’s just wishful thinking. His job is to squeeze as much money out of those properties as humanly possible through TV in film. In doing so, he cares not a bit about doing whatever he thinks is necessary to those characters you love to make more money with them. He’s a businessman, and that’s it. He makes Paul Levitz look like Stan Lee. The only reason you’ve ever seen a Marvel movie that gave the comics fans what they wanted was because he saw it would make more money that way. If he thought the Fantastic Four would have made more money as an lesbian alien love story, that’s what he’d have made.

    It is only about money with this guy. And he’s brilliant at making this property into valuable film franchises. I hate to sound so cynical, but this move only confirms it.

  98. possibly, I was still suprised. I thought now that Arad was in control at Marvel, they would have to pry his cold dead body from that chair…

  99. At Marvel Studios, he’s an employee. At his own company, he doesn’t have to share his piece. I’ve never gotten the sense that he had any particular affinity for these characters. Every time he talked about them, it sounded much more like a marketing pitch than an abiding affection.

    He’s a shark. Cold, deadly.

  100. also: constantly moving, and attracted to the scent of blood in the water. and featured with his own week each year on the discovery channel.

  101. Not to jump the gun or anything, but is anybody else a little nervous about Spider-Man 3? I haven’t read any “buzz” or anything, but I hear about which characters are in it and see the occasional snapshot and just keep thinking, “How the deuce is THAT gonna work?” There’s one character listing in particular in IMDB that makes my brow furrow.

  102. http://www.aintitcool.com/pics/s3news.jpg

    I’m looking forward to it, though I can take or leave one of the new villains.

  103. Heh. Though it’s since been changed, yesterday

    (and now would be the time to avert your eyes if you have a really broad definition of what is a “spoiler”)

    IMDB was listing Rosemary Harris as “Aunt May/Carnage.” Which made me laugh and cry and go “whaaa???” all at once.

  104. I listened to the pod cast today on X3. I agree with most everything you said about the film. The only thing is, I wasn’t upset by most of it. I was upset that wolverine was crying. That was just stupid. Obviously they don’t know who wolverine is. Kind of like Johnny Sack’s underboss seeing him cry at the wedding (what?!). That being said, I also thought it was stupid for him to keep getting knocked out and getting his butt kicked by almost everybody he fought in the first two movies.

    In the podcast you guys made many references to inconsistencies with the comics. The first two were not consistent either.

    For example: Wolverine did not meet Rouge in some bar in Canada. Wolverine didn’t know who Lady Death Strike was?

    The whole story in the first two were completely different from the books. Rouge’s powers in the movies are not exactly the same as in the books. I was pissed off about these things when the first movie came out even though I hadn’t read an X-men comic, up to that time, since Claremont and Byrne were together. I have seen the first and second movie many times now and have them on DVD. I came to accept that the third movie wasn’t going to be like the books. I knew these movies were as close as I could get to seeing the books come to life. I was surprised and satisfied when I saw more familiar characters, disappointed that I didn’t get to see more of colossus or ice man in his full ice form but knew they just couldn’t fit all that in.

    As for the quality of the movie it’s self? I have been so busy with my job and family that I have been to the theater maybe 15 times in the last 5 years. Score? Cinematography? Special effect? I didn’t notice any glaring defects. For me, the two greatest movies of all time are The Godfather and The Unforgiven. I did not expect this movie to be a great cinematic masterpiece. The first two surely were not. I think I can spot a real stinker. I wanted to like Daredevil. The acting by over-rated Ben was so bad that when my wife rented the DVD for me, I had to turn it off about 30 minutes into it. It made me want to barf and I am not picky. I liked Alien vs Predator for God’s sake. (Hmm, maybe that’s why I liked this one.) Don’t worry. I can agree to disagree. i still like hearing you guys. I trust your comic recommendations and will still remain a subscriber to your podcast. In fact, yours is my favorite.

    Now I am one who does want to see the comic come to life on the screen. I do want to see the Wolverine, Colossus, Ice man and others that I have come to know on screen. Yes, I want to see a 5’3″ Wolverine in yellow spandex, thats overly muscled and kicks some real ass. Of course this would look ridiculous if they tried to pull it off with live action. I want comic movies to be made in CGI. Sin City had live action but enhanced it with so much CGI. This is what made it look great and made it feel like a comic come to life. It was visually stunning. This is the way they should all be made. I want to see the ‘real’ X-men, not the “movie” version.

    Now I know there are a lot of nay sayers. “It can’t be done”, “it’s not practical”, “There’s no audience for it.”, “It’s too expensive.” I say Bull S#*t!

    If you people come to this site then you are fans of the books. I think that anybody who likes these books, like I do, would love to see this kind of thing if visually done right.

  105. In the podcast you guys made many references to inconsistencies with the comics. The first two were not consistent either.

    People have brought this up a few times, but from the podcast, at just about the three minute mark Ron says:

    “I will be the first person to tell you that I am not expecting the comic in the movie… I’ve never expected that.”

    We weren’t looking for literal translations. What we were looking for was the spirit of the characters.

    I think that the comics-to-movies inconsistency nitpick rant that Ron went on at the end was more due to his spirit having been broken by the movie and the dam bursting.

    All three of us have said over and over how much we love the first two films – they were true to the characters, but they were not literal translations. It’s an important distinction.

  106. A) He’s right, Unforgiven and Godfather are 2 of the best films ever.

    B) Conor’s right. I don’t want to see a literal translation. For me, personally, I could take or leave comic book movies. A good comic is just that, a good comic. I pray that my favorite books never get turned into movies.

    Now, that doesn’t mean that I can’t have fun with them, or even enjoy them. Only rarely is the film adaptation better than what came before.

    And no part of me wants to see yellow spandex in real life. I can’t believe they’d actually wear that in real life anyway.

    Like Tony Stark said to Spider-Man: “cloth?”



  108. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103923/

    If you want this again, you’re welcome to it.

    Or, god forbid, this:


  109. i love you guys, love the podcast, etc etc, but I literally had to turn off this special x3 episode at about the fifteen-minute mark.

    disagreeing with you on such a visceral level made me angry at the bus stop.

    i think this will be one ifanboy podcast episode I will pretend doesn’t exist–like singer et al are pretending superman 3 and 4 never happened.

  110. I think that the beauty of this place is that you don’t have to always agree with us to have a good time. We’re not always right or are geniuses or anything (well, I am). If you liked the movie, great. We stand by not liking it, though.

  111. fair enough. i think we can all join together in the hope that superman returns kicks x3’s ass, in both quality and box office.

  112. I can get behind that

  113. I can’t imagine that Superman won’t be the biggest movie we’ve seen in a long long time. I also think it might be damn good.

    I’m a genius as well, by the way.

  114. Just to back up a bit, I remember reading a Arad (Gugh) quote just a few days ago, about Spider-Man 3. He said the black suit doesn’t mean Venom is in the movie, but that it represents the inside of Peter…I cried a little, because it reminded me of what he said about the Phoenix. If Venom is not in this, but they have the black suit…oh hurumph!

  115. I don’t care what they do as long as they do it well.

  116. See, to me Venom/Carnage is like the Spider-Man movie’s Shiar Empire: I enjoyed them in the comics, but I think if they tried to shoehorn those concepts into a movie the wheels would come off the wagon. I say this as someone who started reading the comics right after Secret Wars and still thinks of the black 80s Spidey as my favorite era of the character. I can’t imagine how a movie would tell that symbiote story in a non-ludicrous way that also involved Topher Grace. But unlike the iFanboys, I am definitely not a genius, so who knows?

    (Peter’s insides are black?)

    Of course, I don’t know how much of a “true” fan I am; after reading this week’s Amazing Spider-Man, there’s a 50-50 chance that I may be dropping not just the title, but the character.

  117. Topher Grace looks ridiculous.

  118. Just look at this screenshot I found. I can’t believe they’re going through with it like this.


  119. I really liked this issue of ASM. But I suggest you take this conversation to the POW thread.

    I’m with Dude in the movie, I don’t care what they do, as long as it’s a good movie, and I have no reason to believe that Sam Raimi will suddenly drop the ball.

    I’m not even writing off Topher Grace yet. There must be some reason they cast him. I guess I just don’t mind him.

  120. Offered without comment:


    ‘X-Men’: The One-Week Stand

    Box-office analysts were left with a sizable serving of crow on their plates after their predictions that X-Men: The Last Stand was certain to remain the top ticket seller over the weekend were broken up by The Break Up. According to studio estimates, the Jennifer Aniston-Vince Vaughn romantic comedy opened with $38.1 million, well above the $25-30 million that was predicted, while the X-Men movie tumbled 67 percent to $34.35 million, the biggest second-weekend decline ever for a Memorial Day tentpole film.

  121. I like Topher Grace. While he is definitely not what I think of when I think of Eddie Brock, I’m sure his acting will be good.

    I’d imagine they’ll probably adopt the USM origin of Venom. I also think you’ll probably see Black Cat in this film. Arad said there are going to be four villains (Green Goblin, Venom, Sandman and ?) and they’ve already mentioned that Sandman’s wife is a thief.

    I am afraid that they’ll try to stick too much into this movie, but as long as the focus is on Spidey, I don’t think Raimi will do a bad job.

  122. My fiance and I enjoyed the movie and my son too. You guys are just haters.

  123. Haters of bad movies!


    PS – Good to see you back, Darrel – you’ve been missed.

  124. I’m a lover not a hater..which just goes to show how wrong this movie was if it got this level of hate from me…well not hate, rather disappointment

  125. Why’s it Ok for Darrell to be a Bendis hater, and not to not like this abomination on film?


    Darrell, make sure you listen to the podcast this week. We’ve got something special planned for you…

  126. Thanks Connor. I was in Detroit because my fiances mom died of cancer on memorial day weekend. She was fighting the disease for 3 months and shes finally at peace now. To get a break from it all we went to see Xmen 3 and we both had a good time even though we were exhausted.

  127. Why’s it Ok for Darrell to be a Bendis hater, and not to not like this abomination on film?


    Darrell, make sure you listen to the podcast this week. We’ve got something special planned for you…

    when is it going to be on?

  128. Sunday night/Monday morning, as per usual.

    Barring catastrophe.

  129. I completely agree with you on your view of X-Men: The Last Stand. I was one of the few fans actually looking forward to this movie. I thought the previews looked good and I was a huge fan of the first two movies. This movie, however was a huge piece of CRAP! No plot development, no character development and they added and changed characters to fit the need of the scene. I knew as soon as they killed Cyclops, just to give Wolverine a bigger part, that this movie was going to blow. Ratner should be banned from ever making another comic book movie and Singer should be smacked for letting him ruin the franchise.

  130. This is a coment for super hero movies in general. I am watching a movie on SciFi right now called Immortal. 75% of this is CGI. It’s low budget but looks great. Imagine what a CGi movie would look like if they spent $100 million on it. This has got to be the future and I am looking forward to it.

  131. Oh don’t forget

    Do you like any of these movies? I do, and they’re only gonna get better.

    Oh yea you left out


    And don’t forget


  132. Screening my posts. Did I say something to offend?

  133. No no, sorry about that – our comment spam filter is particularly finicky when there are more than 3 links…

  134. I’d say that Hulk and Spider-Man 2 aren’t enough CGI to qualify.

    I didn’t see any of the Final Fantasy movies…

  135. I gotta say, Hulk had a crapload of CGI.

  136. Movie trivia. The first movie to have CGI in every single shot?


  137. This’ll hurt:
    Magneto, the movie.

  138. Rob Hilton has a keen understanding of everything that is wrong with this movie. Read on:


  139. Oh hell, this is going front page. It’s far too funny not to.

  140. I think its weird this Jean thing in the 2nd one she dies and comes back alive, and in the third one she dies! she’s obviously going to come back alive even if she got stabbed it doesn’t matter in the first one mystique got stabbed and she’s fine exept for the part that she got shot by one of those de mutanating darts and in every movie magneto gets new so called “slaves” and they all die exept for pyro sabretooth,toad,spike and that other lad with a metal ring on his head. Any way email me back! thomas!

  141. Oh, god, this thread is back…

  142. Weird.

    I think Thomas works for Fox home video marketing. Just in time for the DVD release….

  143. Well, I just heard the podcast for X Men Days of future past and then went back to hear this one. Pretty fun to hear the different reactions.

    And I also forgot Superman Returns was in the same summer and now I kinda want to hear that podcast too.

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