J. Michael Stracynski (hereafter known as JMS) has just released a new series from Marvel, known as The Twelve. The art is by the amazing Chris Weston, and it’s the intriguing story of forgotten Golden Age Marvel heroes. People seem to be really enjoying this book, and it’s supposed to be a return to form for a writer who has struggled with critical appreciation from the reading public. It looks like it will be a fantastic series.
And I’m not going to read it.
If you’ve been listening to our show or reading this site with any regularity, you’ll know that I’ve developed an aversion of the writing of JMS. It started long ago, with a little tale known as Rising Stars, which was 8 issues of sweet, golden joy. The problem is that it was a 24 issue series, and took several extra years to finish up. Then there was his very long run on Amazing Spider-Man. Peter Parker was aimless and without structure for years, and along comes JMS to fix things up; a solution requiring an entire reboot of the Spider-Man continuity. I heard similar reports of his recent mini-series, Bullet Points.
Patrick Henry once said (although referring to an unjust British Parliament), “I know of no way of judging the future but by the past.” Or, in the words of the sage Pete Townshend, “We won’t get fooled again.”
This is how I feel about JMS’s work. He is my comic book writer version of Ike Turner. He starts something that sounds good, and very often has a great and promising first issue, and without fail, it meanders and morphs into something I am no longer interested in, or even like. I know this, because it’s happened every time I’ve tried to read his work. The themes become big, and the scale epic, which is, I suppose, what some think comic books should be. But when they hit that philosophical crescendo, I just never quite buy it. The ideas are big, but without enough substance behind it. It’s almost something I can’t put my finger on, but it seems to be a recurring theme of JMS’s work. It’s as if all of his work builds up to some big cinematic moment, which ultimately feels false for me.
So yes, it did indeed pain me that a new Thor book was being helmed by none other than our Mr. Straczynski. I love Thor. At one point, I had an actual subscription where Thor comics were sent directly to my house as a young boy. But I had my principles to stick to. I’ve even heard from a great many people that the series is “pretty good.” But I’m not falling for it. I know what will happen. If I’m wrong, I’ll just have to live with the consequences.
Such is the case with The Twelve, a series but for those three initials, I would almost certainly want to investigate.
I would also stress that I’m not even saying the guy is a bad writer. There are plenty of informed and intelligent readers who enjoy his work. Apparently, Midnight Nation was fantastic, but I wouldn’t know, because I got bored a few issues in, and stopped reading it.
The Twelve is out there, but I can’t, in view of the past, get involved with it, so in fairness, I’d like to invite those of you out there who did read it to share your opinions here. Plus, since none of the three of us read Thor, let us know how that’s going for you. Are we going to be sorry? This is your chance to fill in the gaps iFanboy have left.
Find us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
Subscribe to our RSS Feed
Some rights reserved.
As i said before: Thor good, Silver Surfer Requiem amazing, amazing, amazing…
My entire opinion of JMS will forever be shaped by his 6 year reign of terror on Amazing Spider-Man. My opinion is that he’s a good writer with really bad ideas.
I stuck around for at least 1 or 2 issues of every story arc because Amazing Spider-Man has been one of my favorite titles since I was a kid. Also, JMS wrote really good dialog in my opinion (when not hammy), so I guess I always figured his next arc would be fantastic (I had no idea I would have to wait until Civil War).
Amazing Spider-Man was in bad shape before JMS, and his run initially breathed new life into the title. He revitalized Aunt May and restored Peter’s personality. But then, JMS’ bad ideas got in the way. There were moments of greatness in his run, but they were always overshadowed by his bad ideas.
Positive highlights from the JMS run:
Aunt May discovers Peter is Spider-Man
Peter is reunited with MJ.
Amazing Spider-Man: Civil War (all of it)
Crimes against Spider-Man in the JMS run:
Ezekiel, the Peter Parker doppleganger
Morlun, the rip-off of Morbious
Doom, Magneto, and Juggernaut crying at ground zero
Totem powers
Spider-claws (or were they spikes?)
Gwen & Norman’s homicidal, hyper-aged love-children
Peter losing an eye and dying
Peter as a teacher, abandoning his usual timeless supporting cast
That damn deal with the devil
And yeah, I blame JMS entirely for One More Day, despite all of his unprofessional posts on message boards about disowning the story. JMS tried to infuse as much magic into Spider-Man as possible, why would he stop at the last minute? I think he was just pissed because One More Day also removed all of the attrocities he committed against Spider-Man during his 6 years of disrespectful writing and lame-ass, ill-fitting ideas.
It’s JMS’ ideas that kill his books. He tries to impose concepts on characters where they do not fit. His writing is the equivalent of trying to force a square peg through a round hole.
That said, I’ve enjoyed what I’ve read of his run on Squadron Supreme and Ultimate Power. It’s entirely possible that he has plenty of great stories in his future. Bud damn, his run on Spider-Man was terrible. And it was due to his ideas, not the writing itself.
if there was a scalped-esque money back guarantee on his recent trash, i’d be ten bucks richer.
“And yeah, I blame JMS entirely for One More Day, despite all of his unprofessional posts on message boards about disowning the story. JMS tried to infuse as much magic into Spider-Man as possible, why would he stop at the last minute? I think he was just pissed because One More Day also removed all of the attrocities he committed against Spider-Man during his 6 years of disrespectful writing and lame-ass, ill-fitting ideas.”
You need to read the 5 part interview with QUESADA on CBR. I still don’t agree with Joe Q’s re-write of JMS’s story, but I have to say it makes sense. With what was planned and already written for “BND”, OMD HAD to end a curtain way and JMS’s story didn’t do that. Also, JMS wanted the kids to be Peter and Gwen’s, having Norman as the father was QUESADA’s idea…
http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12664
Also, Thor great, Silver Surfer Requiem fantastic.
“You need to read the 5 part interview with QUESADA on CBR. I still don’t agree with Joe Q’s re-write of JMS’s story, but I have to say it makes sense. With what was planned and already written for “BND”, OMD HAD to end a curtain way and JMS’s story didn’t do that. Also, JMS wanted the kids to be Peter and Gwen’s, having Norman as the father was QUESADA’s idea…”
I’ve already read the interview, and it only made JMS look worse, while further reinforcing why Quesada is one of the best and most important people in the industry. After Quesada, JMS, and the Brand New Day writers agreed on a new direction for the future of Spider-Man, JMS later protested and vaguely disowned parts of the story. Quesada only rewrote the effects of Peter’s deal, not the idea for the deal itself. I’m pretty sure that was mostly JMS, as it fits his MO.
Also, for me at least, I prefer the children to be from Gwen and Norman (Gwen is not that sacred to me, and having Peter as the father is another poor idea from the mind of JMS). My problem with them is that they were hyper-aged assassins. That to me is a stupid story and typical bad JMS idea.
If anything, JMS needs editorial oversight like most of us need oxygen- constantly.
Well I think I’m going to pick up the tweleve. Tom Katers gave it a good review on AC yesterday, and I wanted to see what other people thought before I jumped into a 12 part maxi, and reviews seem to be quite positive
“I’ve already read the interview, and it only made JMS look worse, while further reinforcing why Quesada is one of the best and most important people in the industry. After Quesada, JMS, and the Brand New Day writers agreed on a new direction for the future of Spider-Man, JMS later protested and vaguely disowned parts of the story. Quesada only rewrote the effects of Peter’s deal, not the idea for the deal itself. I’m pretty sure that was mostly JMS, as it fits his MO.”
Ok, you need to re-read the interview because that’s not what I got from it at all. Besides, if OMD was JMS’s idea in the first place, then why would he be “pissed because One More Day also removed all of the attrocities he committed against Spider-Man during his 6 years of disrespectful writing and lame-ass, ill-fitting ideas.” ?
Because, having read the interview correctly the first time, Quesada made it clear that JMS only wanted One More Day to remove the marriage and not make any other changes. JMS did not feel the changes could be explained by the story as it was.
I never said One More Day was JMS’s idea, I said I was pretty sure the deal with the devil was his idea. I don’t know for sure because that’s not revealed in the interview. I just know JMS filled his run with magic, so why would he stop at the end.
It’s pretty obvious Quesada was the driving force behind the result of the series, and also the motivating factor for the series to take place in the first place.
In actuality, it’s not even worth debating because even if, contrary to the interview, Quesada was responsible for every detail of the One More Day story, it would be a minor blemish on Quesada’s excellent record, compared to 6 years of bad stories from JMS.
Quesada changed Spider-Man for the better. JMS just wrote another bad story arc.
I don’t feel all six years of ASM with JMS was bad, that’s my opinion of course, I rather enjoyed some of it, even LOVED a good portion of it, some sucked yes, some sucked really bad, but for me it was real hit and miss with more hits then misses, but that is me.
THIS is what Quesada said in the interview:
“Also, the science that Joe was going to apply to the retcon of the marriage would have made over 30 years of Spider-Man books worthless, because they never would have had happened. We would have also had a “Crisis” in the Marvel Universe because it would have reset way too many things outside of the Spider-Man titles. We just couldn’t go there and in the end we weren’t expecting that kind of story.”
“I also think fans are misreading what Joe meant by disagreeing with the story. When we came up with the idea and methodology behind “One More Day,” Joe was a part of the group that came up with the story. When we were done and felt we had it nailed, Joe told me that he was going to cycle off of “Amazing Spider-Man” and that he wanted to move on to other stuff. I told Joe that it was his call: He could close out his “Amazing Spider-Man” run however he wanted, or he could end it with the story we all created for “One More Day.” He said he really wanted to write “One More Day.” So Joe never said anything that indicated he disagreed with Peter and MJ’s marriage being dissolved.”
So when you said things like “Quesada made it clear that JMS only wanted One More Day to remove the marriage and not make any other changes.” or “I think he was just pissed because One More Day also removed all of the attrocities he committed against Spider-Man during his 6 years of disrespectful writing and lame-ass, ill-fitting ideas.” it made me think you didn’t read it very closely.
The truth in this is that JMS wanted his name off the last 2 issues of the story because in the end, he didn
I’m not getting into an argument of quotes and semantics.
I used qualifiers to identify that I was speculating in some of my comments. My posts were opinions from a fan, not the inside story from a journalist.
In the JMS message board post and in the JQ interview, there was a lot said. There was also a lot that was not said. You can take from that what you want, I’ll take from it what I have.
Before the database was rolled back, my original post was actually a lot fairer towards JMS. I wasn’t as harsh on his Spider-Man run and even complimented his Squadron Supreme run.
However, the more I thought about his Spider-Man run, the more I remembered just how awful it was to read some of his story arcs at the time. So there was definetly a negative bias in my comments. I thought his overall run was sucked. What can I say, I don’t work at CNN.
Fair enough. It was never my intention to offend you dude, sorry if I did.
Nah, it’s cool guy. No need to apologize, I didn’t mean to come off that defensive. I’m just used to quotes leading to heated arguments so I was trying to put the on the brakes in my own way (old habits die hard I guess).
Looking back at my posts, I was way too hard on JMS, and even a bit mean-spirited in parts, which is no way to be. The guy is a good writer and tries his best. I was a little too hard on him just because of his run on Spider-Man.
Like I said in my original post before the database was rolled back, I really enjoyed Squadron Supreme and Amazing Spider-Man: Civil War. I even picked up the first issue of Thor, which I thought was good, but stopped reading just because I’m not too into Thor as a character.
So I may actually pick up more of his work in the future, it depends on the book. But damn, there are huge chunks of his Spider-Man run that, for whatever reason, make me think the worst of him as a writer. But that’s not an entirely fair or accurate assessment.
Anyway, no hard feelings. See you around.
Cool. Glad to hear it dude. See ya around.
Is there any doubt why we’re as proud of this community as we are? Well played, gents.
Granted, that’s no reason to go easy on Straczynski’s work.
lol There’s Josh, sticking to his guns!
I can totally understand yours, and everyone else’s, dislike for his run on ASM…hell, I admit to not being thrilled ether, but that is not to say that JMS doesn’t have some damn good stories under his belt.
The Twelve is off to a strong start, and I really enjoyed Supreme Power.
I think Six Gun (if I remember right) said on here before it got deleted that he ordered the Thor trade for you guys, so here’s what I’ll do. I just checked Amazon and Silver Surfer Requiem is under $15 in hardcover. When I get paid (or when my dead-beat room mate gets around to giving me his half of the cash for the bills) I will Paypal you $15. You will not spend it on beer, but instead on Silver Surfer Requiem, and then report back to us on your thoughts. Deal?
Thor is awesome. It makes me giddy like a young teenage girl at a boy band concert every time a new issue comes out. Sometimes I actually squeal with glee at the checkout counter.
I enjoyed most of JMS’ Amazing run. I didn’t like his Fantastic Four work, and Bullet Points was nothing to write home about. And Babylon 5 bores me. So I’m not a JMS fanboy.
But, you should read Thor. It’s good.
Listen, I’m not saying that Thor and the Twelve are bad. If it’s anything like the JMS os the past, it’s probably an excellent and intriguing start.
You WILL be let down.
But aren’t the good times in a relationship sometimes worth the inevitable breakup?
Read the title of the article, Shaw!
I’ll read Silver Surfer requiem if you really want me to, but you should know, the other thing I’m currently annoyed with is the retelling of origins from a modern perspective.
If I have to read the Fantastic Four origin again, I’m gonna just die.
“you should know, the other thing I’m currently annoyed with is the retelling of origins from a modern perspective.
If I have to read the Fantastic Four origin again, I’m gonna just die.”
This merits further discussion! For somebody who is not Superman’s biggest fan by a long shot, I feel like I’ve seen that rocket leave Krypton about fifteen times. The FF do seem to be particularly egregious about this for some reason; I guess it’s because their origin is so very tied to the era when it happened…?
To expound on that would in fact waste the opus (read: 3 to 5 paragraphs) I have recently planned.
I’ll agree with you on the origin thing. What exactly is the point of the Mythos books they’ve been doing? Is anyone who is not already reading comics picking those up? Is anyone who is reading comics feeling the need? Or the need for yet another rehash about how Peter Parker got Uncle Ben killed? (That Spider-Man: Great Reponsibility–or whatever it’s called, I don’t remember if that’s right–mini that’s coming out later this year.)
But I guess I understand where you’re coming from. I don’t read Grant Morrison books for the same reason. He burned me on X-Men, he burned me Batman, and he blinded me with his horribly, horribly colored website. (Bright red background? WTF!)
I don’t mind reading updated origins every 5-10 years, as long as they’re true to the core essence of what makes the character.
What I do hate is when a creator tries to drastically redefine a character’s origin to be something completely different, a la Straczynski’s attempt to redefine Spider-Man’s origin using totem mysticism. When I first read the issue, I remember saying to myself “what a dumb idea”.
And then JMS forced the idea on the reader over and over again. You show me a reader who was OK with the totemic powers and the “Other” storyline, and I’ll show you someone who is not a true Spider-Man fan.
I completely agree with you. This new series looks really interesting. That being said, I’ve had a subscription to amazing spider man for a while because it was only an extra 10 bucks or so on top of my mighty avengers subscription. I quickly realized that it wasn’t worth the ten bucks to receive Amazing. The JMS spider man books are without question the worst comics I own. I then purchased the first couple Thor books, not realizing at first that they were JMS. Like most everyone else, I was pretty much blindly caught up in the hype of a new Thor book. Apparently tons of people like this Thor book. I don’t get it. It’s boring, it sucks, JMS…never again.
I forgot to mention that I cracked up when I read the Ike Turner comparison in the article, because it’s so true.
I have a couple of Ike & Tina compilation CD’s and after listing to them, one thing becomes glaringly apparent: Tina’s got it, Ike doesn’t.
And what makes it interesting is that Ike is actually a highly skilled musician. His music does in fact sound good. But for whatever reason, he never had that “it” factor that separates the stars from the rest. Tina’s got it her first recorded note.
Ike’s music usually showed promise, but always seemed to drift into the realm of being forgettable. Tina would take hold of you and not let go.
In many of ways, the same can be said of JMS. The talent is there, but the stories just don’t seem to deliver. As for the artists he’s usually paired with…
So anyway Josh, that was a great comparison across genres if I’ve ever read one.
However if he meant the “What’s Love Got to Do With It” domestic abuse analogy…
Oops. My bad.
But it can definetly be taken both ways. Both before and after the details of Ike’s domestic abuse against Tina and substance abuse problems were made public, a common criticism of his music was that it always invariably ended up bland, despite his talent.
But if you’ve never listened to old Ike and Tina records or looked into the history of their career together, I guess one could only see the “abused wife” analogy. But it does work both ways, the abuse comparison is just way more obvious than the other.
I took this quote from the article to be a part of the comparison: “He starts something that sounds good, and very often has a great and promising first issue, and without fail, it meanders and morphs into something I am no longer interested in, or even like.”
The same can be said for Ike’s music. Of course, being continuously exposed to either Joe’s writing or Ike’s music can both be qualified as a abuse, depending on who you ask 😉
Of course, the title of the article is “You will never hurt me again, Joe.”
Ajax tells self: “Make sure you read the article’s title before posting…” and then gives up and goes to sleep.
Don’t worry dude, the FF origin IS NOT in Silver Surfer Requiem. It’s out of continuity which is were you find some of JMS’ best work.
Well, I’m about 6 months late, (I clicked the link from the Thor Report) so I guess no one will read this … but for what it’s worth — I completly disagree with all of Josh’s opinions of JMS’ writing.
But I guess this comment will fall into the unkown abyss of the internet & no one will read it, so …
*fart*
i hear you wade, i hear you
I smell you Wade, I smell you.
LOL I honestly thought that comment would fall through the cracks (not ass cracks) but 2 people read it! Rock on.