Gordon the Intern tipped us off to the background info and trailer about the crossover between the soap opera Guiding Light and Marvel Comics. Very rarely am I rendered speechless.
I actually read the backup story by Marvel in this week’s Civil War: Choosing Sides, forgetting/not knowing it was a story related to Guiding Light, and it left me quite confused. Now I’m not so confused, but I’m not sure if I’m better off…
UPDATE! Well, not really, but here are some pictures from the New York Times. That does not look good.
This is just too weird to even comment on. Does, like, someone’s spouse at Marvel work on Guiding Light or something?
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Finally – a superhero worth reading about. Plus I can keep up with such a fantastic character during my daily routine of CBS daytime in the iFanboy storage room/my office.
I am definitely excited for this!!! Make sure to check you local listings and set the DVR for next Wednesday!!!
Haha, hilarious.
This was an interesting concept….but it’s so…”out of the box”…I guess no one would expect it.
I wonder if “Guiding Light” will get some super-powered cast members? Or any residual aspects from this crossover?
save the soap opera
save the world
It really isn’t any different from Transformers comics, The Shield comics, or CIS comics. Yeah, those series can fall into sci-fi or crime genres, which are popular in comic books. However, there are a lot of coming of age and first love comics that people who watch soap operas might enjoy. It seems like Marvel wants to bring some of those soap opera viewers into comics. Why Marvel is handing those new readers something like New Avengers is beyond me. Maybe they plan on transitioning these people towards non-superhero comics that Marvel is planning. Either that or they plan on transitioning some superhero comics towards soap opera-like plots. It is quite strange.
This was so stupid I couldn’t believe it. My mother has watched the Guiding Light for about the last 25 years. Marvel has become a total whore.
You’re just mad because, if this works, it is possible you and your mother could be reading the same comics. You might be having a conversation about Ultimate Spider-man, with your mom, in the future.
I found out that Smallville is on my parent’s Tivo. I paused, then thought, for that show that makes sense. Apparently, my mother isn’t a big fan of Green Arrow, but she does like Clark. That was about as far as I wanted to conversation to go.
This was so stupid I couldn’t believe it. My mother has watched the Guiding Light for about the last 25 years. Marvel has become a total whore.
They’re just a business trying to make money. Marvel making these comic books isn’t going to change the books you already like from them. It’s an attempt to grow their business. That’s what all businesses do.
A TV studio produces all sorts of different programming, so why shouldn’t a comics company?
More money for the company only gives them more capital to experiment on projects and hire better talent.
I have watched Guiding Light fairly routinely for about 8 years – give or take. Over that time I have noticed a lot of changes – specifically in the writing. It used to be the case that the writers would dedicate the summers to try and attract a “younger” crowd with the stories and characters, but there seems to be a new batch, and they are trying to keep the teens interested all year now (probably with the help of DVR and TiVo).
So, what is the point of me saying this? I am not sure – but what I do know is – the show is marketing to many generations and men and women. This crossover – as Josh said – is a business attempt to make money, and anybody with a job knows how important that can be. On that same note – “selling out” or “whoring out” really can change depending on the situation. The story may be super cheesy and ridiculous, but if they get $$$, it was worth it.
And – I think that mixing media is clearly the way of the future. It started as a radio show, full produced by P&G to help sell their products – this is just another step.
I will probably read the first one – just because I have been a loyal watcher – but I cannot commit at this time to the whole series – or even the show anymore. I’ll have to see what happens on Wednesday.
What I have a problem with is the Trojan Horse aspect of this – slipping in the crossover tease under the pretense of a Civil War tie-in book. This had nothing to do with CW as far I could tell – heck, wasn’t that Cap in the one panel with all the Avengers, who he’s supposed to be AT WAR with?
I have no qualms with Marvel trying to grow their business, I don’t have to watch the show or buy the comic if I don’t want to. But don’t sell me a $4 book that’s supposed to be about Civil War, and then shove this crap in front of me. I find that dishonest and crass.
I’m trying to figure out what a comic book publisher would have to do to “sell out.” That’s actually a pretty funny premise to think about. Superman and Spider-Man’s faces are printed on every conceivable manufactured good (google “itsy-bitsy spider-man” and laugh like you’ve never laughed before) and as for the comics themselves… my mind keeps coming back to NFL Superpro. This barrel was really designed to have no bottom.
I have no words
I can live with all of the stupid stuff marketed to kids, but mixing some of my favorite characters in with “Guiding Light” characters just hurts me. I’m not putting that genre down, I just felt stupid reading it–it is also at the back of Spider-man Loves Mary Jane.
I emailed my 67 year-old mom, and this is what she had to say, “Yes, I still watch “guiding light”. They have begun advertising a guiding light comic at the end of every show. On Wednesdays they have begun featuring one of the casts with the story line revolving around that person, I guess to show off their talents.
Haven’t looked at the comic book yet, keep meaning to, then forgetting.”
I wish we would end up talking about comics together,, but I doubt very seriously we will. She is a big fan of “Lost” though, so you never know.
Still think Marvel whored out on this one, but Quesada is a whore, so what are you going to do?
What they really need to do is stop putting out “Guiding Light” comics and finish things like Ult. Wolverine/Hulk and Civil War.
Mmm…quesadillas…
Still think Marvel whored out on this one, but Quesada is a whore, so what are you going to do?
I’m curious why you say Quesada is a whore.
I’d also like to know your answer to this question:
Marvel Entertainment, Inc. exists to
A. Make comic books.
B. Make money.
I still don’t understand what people have against Quesada. I’ve seen nothing from him other than a guy who loves comics, and is using his position to sell as many comics as possible to as many people as possible to keep the company healthy. What is wrong with that? You may not like all the editorial decisions he’s made, but you can not deny the fact that he is in very large part responsible for the healthy state of the industry in general, all the way down to the little indies who feel the benefits from more people reading. Being a comic book fan has been made infinitely better because of Joe Quesada. I don’t see how you can deny that.
There is no selling out for a coporation. They’re there to increase shareholder value.
Try as they may, this will never surpass the genius of the Marvel Team Up issue where Spider-Man meets the cast of SNL.
Its just marketing. Really, is it any more ridiculous than Captain America rescuing a shipment of Hostess Fruit Pies from Doctor Doom?
Wasn’t there as issue of the Avengers somewhere in the 230s where they meet David Letterman?
Spider-Man hangs with Johnny Carson in Amazing #99, probably the oldest comic I own. I think they did a Spidey/Leno back-up story a couple years ago, about which I heard no kvetching at the time but which had to be at least as stupid as the Guiding Light thing.
(I have to confess that part of my non-ire might be due to the fact that I just didn’t read the GL back-up; I got to it, said, “Oh, this is the soap opera thing,” and calmly set the book down.)
That SNL “Marvel Team-Up” is a treasure. I used to have a framed copy of it in my office when I was a bigger SNL fan. It was like chocolate in my peanut butter.
http://www.x-raycomics.com/scans/avengers_1963_239.jpg
http://www.samruby.com/MtuB/Large/MarvelTeam-Up074.jpg
Belushi look badass!
OK, the folks at Marvel have not done anything explicitly immoral or illegal, and I am sure that the stockholders will be very happy if there is a huge boom in sales. No children or puppies have been harmed in the making of this comic. Of course, Wal-mart doesn’t do anything but the same when they come into a town.
But they don’t exist just to make money–they are hopefully making something that is or is approaching art, as well. Do bands exist to make music or to make money? I guess both, but if U2 starts to sing songs about “Guiding Light” then I’m gone as a fan.
This is funny, the same group of guys that raved about the opening scene of ‘Studio 60’ (which railed against this kind of corporate whoring), and the same group of guys who regularly complained about “Don’t Touch My Boxers, Bub” are now trying to tell me that I shouldn’t be a little miffed if Tony Stark is having it out with Alan Spaulding.
I’ll close (and this is my last comment on the subject) with this from Studio 60:
…and there’s always been a struggle between art and commerce, but now I’m telling you art is getting is ass kicked, and it’s making us mean, and it’s making us bitchy, and it’s making us cheap punks and that’s not who we are.
I just think you’re about 50 years too late getting upset about this particular thing.
… and the same group of guys who regularly complained about “Don’t Touch My Boxers, Bub” are now trying to tell me that I shouldn’t be a little miffed if Tony Stark is having it out with Alan Spaulding.
We were saying those Wolverine ads were stupid because they were poorly executed for a dumb product. Not that they existed at all.
Honestly, how is this Guiding Light thing going to impact your life in a negative way? If you don’t like it or are not interested, then don’t read it. If not for this news story I wouldn’t have even known of its existence. No one will be forcing you to read those stories.
Marvel Entertainment, Inc. exists to make as much money as they possibly can. That’s the bottom line. Now, I’m not saying I love the reality of the situation, but that’s what it is. Thankfully, they are not destroying any lives while they make their money – unlike Wal Mart – but you wouldn’t know it from some of the internet vitriol thrown their way (not here, other places).
It just irks me when people call Quesada a sell out because IT’S HIS JOB TO MAKE MONEY FOR MARVEL. And guess what? In doing so he has also made some REALLY GOOD COMICS. If anything, the man doesn’t get enough credit for merging art and commerce.
I like Joe Quesada and hope Marvel finds as many ways to make as much money as possible so it can continue publishing comics until I lose my eyesight. But there’s a difference between cross-promotion marketing and false advertising.
Simply: If I buy a book about Civil War, I should not get a story about Guiding Light.
My issue is not with the marketing, but how it is was executed. Frankly, I feel duped out of part of my $4.
Does anyone see my point? Or am I just muttering to myself in the corner of this virtual room?
In the spirit of a good debate, which I love, I’d like to retort.
A band exists to make music, and sometimes money. Except shitty bands who exist in the reverse order, and are soon forgotten. The record company exists to make money. Company and artist are not the same.
Same with a movie studio and a director. The director wants to make art. In the service of that, he has to also make money. The studio could usually care less, as long as money is made.
Comic artists, and writers love comic books. I have no doubt that Joe Q is one of those guys, but now he’s also in charge of Marvel, and his job is to make money. In that service, he’s also trying to make good comics. I can tell that because, across the board, comics are really really good right now.
I didn’t read the Guiding Light comic, because I didn’t care. I also don’t care that it exists. If they want to print Aranna and have someone who will buy it, good for them. It doesn’t make a difference to me as long as I can still get good comics I like.
I don’t care that Marvel or DC license their properties to boxer shorts or whatever, but like Conor said, it was just a poorly executed ad aimed at the wrong audience. Bad bad art too. But really, if it wasn’t for licensing products, no way Marvel would even still exist.
Man, I’m going to miss Studio 60. It’s a wonder it hasn’t been cancelled already. But Judd Hirsch was being a little black and white, and just a little outdated. For one thing, if this was 5-10 years ago, he would have had a point. Right now, TV is in the best shape it’s been in a long time. Much like comics, there are more good shows on right now than there have ever been. There is quality stuff being put out. From Earl and the Office to BSG and the Wire, and Lost, and a dozen others I don’t have time to watch: has TV ever been so good? Likewise with comics. Comics are great right now. Marketing to a larger audience doesn’t cost us a thing.
Do you think Marvel comics is in worse shape now than before Quesada’s reign? Do you miss guys like Roger Stern? I don’t.
Sometimes, when I get a little ‘nit-picky’ I’ll think of ‘Heroes Reborn’ and it makes it all better. Quesada is doing just fine.
Simply: If I buy a book about Civil War, I should not get a story about Guiding Light.
My issue is not with the marketing, but how it is was executed. Frankly, I feel duped out of part of my $4.
This is a fair and just point, but I read the description of that book, and thought, this is no kind of story I care about. Besides, it was like an anthology wasn’t it? I mean, it wasn’t like it had Spider-Man on the cover and you opened it up and it was all about Howard the Duck, was it? I thought the GL part was just a few pages.
In case I was not clear in my ramble earlier…
I do NOT think it is a sell out. That was the point I was trying to make.
I make my living as an artist, a college professor, and an intern. Ideally, I would just be the artist (and the intern), but I also have a family to take care of. So, I sold out in order to have income. At least that is what some of my “purist” friends tell me.
I think Josh and Conor are making the point I wanted to make. You do what you have to in order to survive. In the case of J Tortilla, he is helping to make Marvel better – attract new people. Get a bigger and mroe diverse audience.
My mother in law probably will go get the comic – even though her knowledge of comics is limited to the San Diego videos produced by iFanboy. She loves GL – and she loves to read. It is a perfect union.
Comics are at a new level right now – just like TV as Josh stated. Although they are still a niche thing, the niche is getting bigger. It is cool to like comics again – not just “a kid” thing. If it takes marketing through movies, TV and god knows what else – it is worth it.
I am sure that people within Marvel gave JQ a lot of flack for this – but in the end it will only benefit the art.
“Honestly, how is this Guiding Light thing going to impact your life in a negative way? If you don’t like it or are not interested, then don’t read it.”
“I didn’t read the Guiding Light comic, because I didn’t care. I also don’t care that it exists.”
Guys, I couldn’t agree more – but I DIDN’T have a chance to exercise choice this time because they stuck it in a comic that said Civil War on the cover. I couldn’t choose not to read it ’cause I didn’t know what it was for the first couple pages.
Don’t you think that’s intentionally deceptive? The kind of thing that erodes a little trust? If you recorded a Pick of the Week Podcast, and then pursposely launched into a rant midway through to espouse some political belief, wouldn’t that be taking advantage of an audience in the same way? An audience there under different pretense? Have I jumped the shark with this argument yet?
Gordon, go get my dry cleaning. The place closes in ten minutes.
I’m beat, I guess. Or at least in the minority. I won’t lose sleep about it.
But what is this abotu Studio 60 getting cancelled? That show is awesome. That would be very upsetting.
Guys, I couldn’t agree more – but I DIDN’T have a chance to exercise choice this time because they stuck it in a comic that said Civil War on the cover. I couldn’t choose not to read it ’cause I didn’t know what it was for the first couple pages.
Don’t you think that’s intentionally deceptive? The kind of thing that erodes a little trust?
Break it down for me, because I didn’t read the book – was the entire thing about the GL character? Wsa it an anthology? Who appeared in the book and what was it about?
If you recorded a Pick of the Week Podcast, and then pursposely launched into a rant midway through to espouse some political belief, wouldn’t that be taking advantage of an audience in the same way?
That actually has happened at least once.
Break it down for me, because I didn’t read the book – was the entire thing about the GL character? Wsa it an anthology? Who appeared in the book and what was it about?
Civil War: Choosing Sides left me feeling a little hungry before I got to the soap opera thing, but that part of it was pretty negligible.
Basically, it was an anthology that broke down like this: a short story in which the Thunderbolts broke down Venom’s door (??) and invited him to join, he accepted, and right as something was about to happen it said, “the story set up here for sale in Thunderbolts #110!” Then Iron Fist decides to be Iron Fist again; “actual story set up here available in Iron Fist #1!” Omega Flight, Ant-Man, same deal, then a standalone Howard the Duck story that justified the purchase singlehandedly, then whatever the GL thing was. It was like the last 5 pages of a big, thick comic, just like it’s going to be when they print it in the end of half a dozen other comics you buy this month. I thought it was a bonus that just happened to be a bonus I did not personally want. This can’t be the first time any of us has encountered an irrelevant back-up story, can it? Am I the oldest person left reading comics? I’m only 31. (Did I mention the Spidey/Jay Leno crossover from ’02?)
I’m 35, myself. So anyway, what about Studio 60?
“But what is this abotu Studio 60 getting cancelled? That show is awesome. That would be very upsetting.”
It hasn’t been cancelled…yet. The ratings have taken a hit every week though (except I think they may have risen a bit last week) and it is getting beat by pretty much everything else in its timeslot. Basically the outlook doesn’t look good but nothing has been decided yet. By the way it is being preempted next week for Friday Night Lights (another quality show that is failing in the ratings) but that is supposed to be a one week deal. We’ll see…
I just read the comments to this thread, thinking GL meant Green Lantern and not Guiding Light.
Makes the conversation seem WAY different.
I promise I will let it go after this, but here’s my final thoughts. The GL story was given the same number of pages as the other stories in the book. It had nothing to do with Civil War – it showed Cap still with the Avengers – and there was no indication from the cover that this would be included. In other words, under false pretense, some of the page real estate I paid for was used for something I would never have paid for. I understand cross promotion and marketing, but to me this crossed the line. I don’t like to feel I’ve been tricked as a consumer. Marvel abused my trust. I don’t like it. If I’m making too much of it, so be it. But I didn’t like it.
Anyway, on to more important things, I would be upset if they cancelled Studio 60 or Friday Night Lights, especially the latter as it would just make sense to see the football season the show is about to its conclusion. From what I could tell paging ahead on my cable menu, Studio 60 will be back at it’s regular time the week after next. Ratings were actually up a tick this week, so there’s hope.
Unless they replace Heroes with Guiding Light as the lead-in.
PV, I get what you’re saying, and I agree with that point.
But, c’mon. You’re not gonna stop reading Marvel.
I felt the same way about everything Ron Zimmerman and Chuck Austen wrote at Marvel. Now THAT was betrayal.
Now, those “extra” pages we paid for in Ultimate Spider-Man #100 were some bull****. It was just an 8-page backup story, included as a bonus, not forced human cloning. It’s going to be in all these other books:
SPIDER-MAN LOVES MARY JANE 11
MARVEL SELECT FLIP MAGAZINE 18
MARVEL TALES FLIP MAGAZINE 17
MARVEL ADVENTURES SPIDER-MAN 21
SPIDER-MAN AND POWER PACK 1
MARVEL ADVENTURES FLIP MAGAZINE 18
MARVEL HEROES FLIP MAGAZINE 18
AMAZING SPIDER-GIRL 2
FRANKLIN RICHARDS: HAPPY FRANKSGIVING!
MARVEL ADVENTURES FANTASTIC FOUR 18
ULTIMATE MARVEL FLIP MAGAZINE 19
ULTIMATE TALES FLIP MAGAZINE 19
There. Now no one can accidentally buy these books and have their trust violated by the whores.
Oh I never said I was going to stop reading Marvel, and didn’t mean to imply that, but I will be less likely to trust in buying these kind of books. Which is ultimately a happy ending probably. Thanks for listening. I’m off the ledge now.
You did get a shoutout on the show this week. That’s gotta be worth something.
Oh yeah – I appreciated it (!)
After reading this whole thread, I know it’s been beaten to death, but I just wanted to say something about what Josh was saying. The whole point about Marvel being a corporation whose sole purpose is to make money is an easy excuse for CEOs and proponents to fall back on, but it doesn’t say anything. A corporation is not some soulless entity that consumes money in any possible form that it can find, regardless of its legal status. It’s an organization of people, and it owes its continued existence to another group of people who choose to support it. The whole social Darwinist theory of corporations went out the window with Enron, and there is such a thing as accountability to your public as well as your stockholders.
That being said, 1) Ads like this are common to books since as long as I’ve been collecting. Hell, JLA came with a chapter of a book entirely unrelated. So long as it doesn’t affect the quality of the book its inserted in, what’s the problem? You still got 5 stories and a significant amount of pages for one book. Just consider it a bonus that you decided you can do without.
2) As far as I’ve seen, Quesada has done significantly more than previous editors-in-chief to increase Marvel’s accountability to its readers by increasing the quality as well as the variety of comic books available. I love reading his New Joe Fridays because he convinces me that he genuinely cares about the Marvel readers. He’s tipped the scales from the 90s when making profits was the bottom line much further on the side of the comic book public, and that’s largely why I’ve started reading again.
The whole social Darwinist theory of corporations went out the window with Enron, and there is such a thing as accountability to your public as well as your stockholders.
Exactly. There is no possible way that a Guiding Light crossover hurts anybody.
After reading this whole thread, I know it’s been beaten to death, but I just wanted to say something about what Josh was saying. The whole point about Marvel being a corporation whose sole purpose is to make money is an easy excuse for CEOs and proponents to fall back on, but it doesn’t say anything. A corporation is not some soulless entity that consumes money in any possible form that it can find, regardless of its legal status. It’s an organization of people, and it owes its continued existence to another group of people who choose to support it. The whole social Darwinist theory of corporations went out the window with Enron, and there is such a thing as accountability to your public as well as your stockholders.
Believe me, I know what you’re saying here, but I think we can all agree that we’re not talking about the moral obligations of a corporation, such as in the case of Enron, or a polluting energy corporation, or anything to do with ethics. That’s a valid point, but in this particular case, it doesn’t enter into the discussion. When I say that Marvel can do whatever they want to make money, I mean that within ethical standards. But Marvel’s hardly the kind of company where that comes into the discussion.
Completely agree, it’s not at all comparable, and I don’t think Marvel does anything morally deplorable. I just did’t want the answer to an argument like this to be simply “Because their whole purpose is to make money.” Small point in the discussion, but important to keep in mind, to me at least.