Friday means many things to many people. For some, it means it’s payday. For others, it means it’s two-for-one from 4pm to 6pm at the local alcohol emporium. And for others still, it means it’s time to hop in the car and drive to Topeka and spend the weekend with their secret, second family.
At iFanboy, Friday means it’s letter column time.
You write. We answer. Very simple.
As always if you want to your email read on the show, or answered here, keep them coming – contact@ifanboy.com
With the large amount of criticism surrounding comics these days, it feels like we’ve forgotten what first drew us to comics. So let’s take it back to basics: What is your favorite superhero fight?
For me, it has to be the first time the all new Uncanny X-Men defeated Magneto in his underground volcano lair (Ron knows what I’m talking about). I believe it was in the early 100’s.
Also of note:
Deathstroke vs. the JLA in Identity Crisis, practically taking them all down single handedly.
Superman vs. Batman in The Dark Knight Returns: No explanation needed. Just the best fighting the best.
Phillip B.
Oh, do I know what you’re talking about Philip — that Magneto Volcano fight is indeed a good one! And it’s good of you to remind us all what we like so much about these superhero comics we read. Grown men and women beating on one another.
That said, my favorite fight of all time is an easy one, and it’s one that probably won’t surprise anyone. It was X-Factor #60, Part 3 of the “X-Tinction Agenda” crossover, where Cyclops fought his brother Havok, who was brainwashed to think he was a Genosha soldier. You see, the Summers brothers powers don’t work on each other, so they completely let loose power wise and then fought fisticuffs. As a little X-fan in my early teens, I absolutely loved it. To this day, it’s one of my favorite crossovers.
Thanks for jogging that memory!
Ron Richards
Got a big problem with the direction of Spider-Man these days.
Why the hell can’t Spidey be divorced?? We have heroes who kill, gay superheroes, elderly ones, genocide, they die and come back, all kinds of shit. In the day and age we live in, how can Peter getting divorced be such a big goddamn deal? If anything it would make him MORE interesting. He and MJ try to stay friends, new relationships would be more painful and awkward as he tries regaining his equilibrium.
Weak and cowardly storytelling in my opinion.
Ethan from Minneapolis, MN
Obviously we disagree on this subject, Ethan, as I think the Spider-Man reboot is the best thing to happen to Peter Parker in 20 years. In fact, I don’t think they went far enough — they should have rebooted Peter to late high school or college age, but that’s not the matter at hand.
Why not just have Peter and Mary Jane get divorced?
That’s a question that has been brought up to Marvel Editor-in-Chief Joe Quesada on many occasions, I’ve seen it in person at a few conventions. The simple answer is having Peter and Mary Jane get divorced would be even worse than having them be married. If the point is to make Peter seem more relatable to a younger crowd, then having him get divorced is the exact wrong way to go. “Old people” get divorced.
The more complex answer is that getting divorced leads to a whole mess of adult problems and — while I have not been divorced (or married) myself, I have a few friends who have — it tends to consume your life. Who wants to read three books a month about a distraught Peter Parker? The whole point was to bring the young, fun-loving, single-guy-in-the-city Peter Parker back. The guy who, even when the chips were down, would crack wise while walloping bad guys. That doesn’t really happen when you get divorced from the supermodel-actress love of your life.
When you are trying to erase the idea of a married Peter Parker from the minds of readers (especially anyone new coming into comics) then having your main character worried about alimony and court-ordered counseling, and division of property is not really the way to go. And does anyone think that Peter wouldn’t try to change Mary Jane’s mind and win her back? Now your story is about the marriage without an actual marriage.
Divorce is not a simple solution. Divorce is messy. Really, really messy.
Conor Kilpatrick
I got into comics within the last year or so, and watching you has really opened my eyes for things to look for. My question is, as hardcore as you guys are, do you commonly use digital versions of comic books? ie .cbz and .cbr files?
Salem
Clearly you’ve never been around for one of these arguments, Salem. As it currently seems that the only real way to get those types of files is by pirating comics, I can say that no, I don’t really read them very much.
I will admit freely to downloading the entire Miracleman series, as I was left with no way to buy them legitimately, and sincerely doubt that we’ll ever see the day where it shows up in a gorgeous hardbound book. So, that being said, I did download it, but I haven’t brought myself to actually read it, and I got it about 2 years ago. So we’ve got what might be the greatest story no one can buy anywhere, written by my favorite writer, and the form displeases me so much that I haven’t read it. Maybe if I had a widescreen display that I could rotate on its side, I might think better of it, but there are some pages that need to be seen as a whole, and when you make that fit on my monitor, the lettering becomes too small. Also, I think one thing that’s great about comics is that it actually gets me away from the computer, which is a great thing as I spend all day, and large chunks of the night working at a keyboard.
While I’m trying desperately to avoid the same argument again, I would always recommend that you try to financially support the artists, writers and books you care about, because most of the time, they truly need it.
Josh Flanagan
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My favourite superhero fight:
1) Jack Knight Starman Versus Captain Marvel
2) Superman versus Captain marvel (Kingdom Come) -I guess I like to see Billy get beat up).
3) The second Kyle versus Hal as parallax fight
4) Invincible versus Omni-man
I realize this is a random addition, but I do lurk here from time to time and I listen to the podcast, so I figured I’d chip in.
There’s an old “What if” where the story is about Iron Man selling his armour to the highest bidder. It ends up with most of the superheroes in semi-retirement and iron man in hiding because everyone can do what superheroes do. Until Magneto shows up (since humanity used their “powers” to repress mutants even more). Basically, Magneto blows through everyone until Iron Man comes out of hiding in a new (and gigantic suit). Magneto does his “shield bubble” thing as Iron Man grabs him between his hands. And then the panels show Iron Man slowly pushing against the bubble while Magneto says “No! You can’t!”… Flip the page and you see Iron Man saying “Yes I can”, and then he crushes the bubble and defeats Magneto (and puts him under arrest and reforms the avengers). Just a really fun fight.
Hey, Josh, what is this?! I thought the “rabbit hole” was deep enough, why reopen it?
Favorite fights…hmmm…
Alot of daredevil stuff seems to come to mind
I loved the Bullseye vs Black Widow fight
But easily the best fight ever:
Matt Murdock vs. the Yakuza in the run Bendis did. I have the somewhat over-sized hardcover with that fight in it, pure gold, totally UNBELIEVABLE!
Alex Maleev get back on daredevil!!!!
cbr & cbz are renamed zipped and stuffit files. They are simply a form of compression showing images. You can make a cbz file of anything really and they work great if you need to send multiple images to a person. Just saying, the format isn’t evil, just how people use it.
Best Fight: Ninja Turtles vs Shredder in Return to New York.
Hey, Josh, What happened to not going in any deeper down the proverbial “rabbit hole”? I kid I kid
Anyway Best Fight easily goes to (im my opinion)
1.) Matt Murdock vs Yakuza
This fight was UNBELIEVABLE! Out of the whole bendis/maleev run that fight for me was the peak. Seeing a very angry Murdock, not Daredevil, take out all those Yakuza in the rain was unreal. Maleev was able to draw with a very gritty street vibe and then give it an epic scope, man, that fight was just amazing!
I picked up the slightly oversized hardcover version for this, was so easily worth it.
P.S. Lark is good but enough is enough! Lark’s action scenes lack in comparison!! MALEEV GO BACK TO DD!
I wrote a long reply, but just don’t care anymore.
They pulled a character back 25 years because Joe Q. couldn’t let it go, and they couldn’t find a way to take him forward. I call bullshit, and I’ll lay down $100 that Peter and MJ are back together in some way within 7 years. Spidey is not about youth, he’s about responsibility. Always has been.
Josh: I agree 100%, even though we have had in the past different views, but also have no interest in rehashing the argument on downloading. But I relate to this comment of yours 100% and absolutely feel what you are saying here:
“I did download (an out of print book), but I haven’t brought myself to actually read it, and I got it about 2 years ago. So we’ve got what might be the greatest story no one can buy anywhere, written by my favorite writer, and the form displeases me so much that I haven’t read it…
” Also, I think one thing that’s great about comics is that it actually gets me away from the computer, which is a great thing as I spend all day, and large chunks of the night working at a keyboard.”
Absolutely well stated. This is my situation completely.
Ron:
Incredible Hulk #340 – Hulk Vs Wolverine by Peter David and Todd McFarlane. Easily my favorite superhero fight.
Conor:
Who wants to read three books a month about a distraught Peter Parker? I would argue that the whole reason Marvel undid the marriage was to bring back that downtrodden, down on his luck, never gets it right with the ladies and always worried about his sick and dying aunt Peter Parker. Marvel wanted to bring back the duality of the happy go lucky Spider-Man and the miserable beyond belief Peter Parker.
Josh:
It’s happening slowly but a number of publishers are starting to post comics online in the various .cb formats. Just yesterday I was at the Oni Press site(http://www.onipress.com/downloads.php) and was quite surprised to find a number of comics available for free download in the .cb format(including iFanboy favorite, Scott Pilgram). There is a demand for digital comics and the industry as a whole needs to learn that digital comics aren’t something to be afraid of. If marketed correctly, digital comics can be a whole new way to generate money.
Best-fight: Daredevil taking down Bullseye and scraping the target into his head–I think this was early Bendis–best fight ever.
Spider-man: The divorce would have been SO MUCH more realistic and readable. We have a fun-loving, guilt-ridden, single Spider-man in USM. Between Bendis, the movies, and even the Marvel Age books, if you can’t get new young readers forget it. Quesada made a huge mistake, and I give him 2 years as E-i-C at Marvel before someone decides it is time for him to just be an artist again. Between the Guiding Light crap, this retcon, and several other failed schemes to bring in new readers, and the way he allows such terrible lateness to continue–pissing off the existing fanbase, I don’t think he will last.
I desparately want a Spiderman comic where he is fighting with MJ over who gets to keep the TV. IF it is oversized we can fit in an awkward birthday party for a friend where the both show up. Dandy Divorce Dilemna for our Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman True Believers!
That should be “they both show up”…daman ape hands.
The best fight ever question made me think back to that “Marvel vs. DC” crossover they did in the early 90’s. I recall they had fans vote and then the writers told the story. I remember anticipating some of the fights, only to be completely underwhelmed by them. If I recall, Superman beat Hulk with one punch. BOOORRRIIINNNGGG!
As for my favorite fight, I loved the fight between Elektra and Bullseye in Frank Miller’s early run. The end of that fight is just so powerful. Also, I love the end fight in the first Jack Knight Starman arc. When he fries that dude, it’s just so bad ass.
Jack Knight vs. the Mist’s son? That’s badass indeed.
There was that one Invincible when he just pummels and pummels the other dude until he’s completely bloodied. Awesome.
Best fight, not in comics, Dan vs. that body guard near the end of Deadwood. Wet slaps.
I would argue that the whole reason Marvel undid the marriage was to bring back that downtrodden, down on his luck, never gets it right with the ladies and always worried about his sick and dying aunt Peter Parker. Marvel wanted to bring back the duality of the happy go lucky Spider-Man and the miserable beyond belief Peter Parker.
There’s downtrodden (yet always hopeful) and divorced – and that’s two completely different realms.
The divorce would have been SO MUCH more realistic and readable. We have a fun-loving, guilt-ridden, single Spider-man in USM. Between Bendis, the movies, and even the Marvel Age books, if you can’t get new young readers forget it. Quesada made a huge mistake, and I give him 2 years as E-i-C at Marvel before someone decides it is time for him to just be an artist again. Between the Guiding Light crap, this retcon, and several other failed schemes to bring in new readers, and the way he allows such terrible lateness to continue–pissing off the existing fanbase, I don’t think he will last.
Under Quesada Marvel has flourished like it hasn’t in decades – both financially and creatively. He’s not going anywhere anytime soon unless its his choice.
And despite my raving mad rants, I think Joe Q. is one of the best things to ever happen to Marvel. Marvel Knights, MAX, Ultimate universe, tons of exclusive contracts for great creators… Joe has been a blessing to the whole industry.
But his obsession with Pete’s marriage is fucked up.
I will admit freely to downloading the entire Miracleman series, as I was left with no way to buy them legitimately, and sincerely doubt that we’ll ever see the day where it shows up in a gorgeous hardbound book.
And here I thought I was the eternal pessimist. Keep the dream alive!!
Favorite Fights:
Incredible Hulk #340 – Hulk Vs Wolverine by Peter David and Todd McFarlane.
Amazing stuff.
Flash vs. Anti-monitor in the first Crisis.
Wolverine vs. Captain America – Cap Annual #8 I think.
Kingdom Come was awesome, too.
“Under Quesada Marvel has flourished like it hasn’t in decades – both financially and creatively. He’s not going anywhere anytime soon unless its his choice.”
I give him 2 1/2 years at a maximum to be gone. Just my opinion. Maybe a wrong one.
Top three best fight scenes (in no particular order):
1) Invincible vs. Omni-Man
2) Sinestro vs. Hal and Kyle (alright then, the both of you. AWESOME)
3) Everyone vs. the Center in New Frontier
Josh downloaded a pirated comic but didn’t read it…that’s a Clintonian “I didn’t inhale…”!!
Just kidding…no offense…
How can Marvel executives justify having the “face of Marvel comics,” Spider-man, make a deal with the devil. To have a “heroe” essentially sell his soul to the devil is a “villains” move, and is simply the most ludicrous idea I have ever seen.
Conor, I am shocked that you agree w/ this move!
One More Day was stupid, I agree. Deal with the Devil was stupid. Choosing Aunt May over Mary Jane was kinda creepy, even if she is more his mother than his Aunt.
Doesn’t matter.
The ends justify the means in this case.
One More Day is over, I don’t care what happened in it. I’m moving on and enjoying Spider-Man again.
I clearly need to go find that X-Factor issue immediately. Because I love the Summers brothers, and because Ron used the word “fisticuffs.”
“You can make a cbz file of anything really and they work great if you need to send multiple images to a person. Just saying, the format isn’t evil, just how people use it.”
So true, there’s a bit of a stigma when it comes to those extensions. If a company wanted to offer their library for sale as digital downloads the format would probably be pretty good though. Does anyone know of any legal services that offer comics this way?
In theory, you could use those comic formats legitimately in the same way people could use the bit torrent client legitimately. But 99% of the time, they don’t.
But you’re absolutely right that they could be used in that way. They’re just not yet with any ubiquity.
When the “Sandman”-Episode comes out are you gonna talk about the other works of Neil Gaiman too?
Because the Comics that he did with Dave Mckean are awesome!
It will just be a show about Sandman. Its possible that other books could be done in a creator spotlight or vault show at some point, but not that one.
My favorite comic book fight is between Cerebus and Cirin in the “Reads” collection, where the fight takes places over 5-6 issues. Back and forth duel, with barely if any dialogue and a lot of panels devoted to showing their foot positions and stances. Then it gets weird at the end, but still pretty cool fight.
Heh, “Cromulent.”
I must say, I feel a bit like philistine doing all these shows about comics, and never having read Cerebus all the way through. I will have to rectify that some time.
Posted by: Neb at January 18, 2008 12:30 PM
If I recall, Superman beat Hulk with one punch. BOOORRRIIINNNGGG!
It was a bit more than one punch, but I see your point. THat fight could have gone on for at least 5 more pages.
“If I recall, Superman beat Hulk with one punch. BOOORRRIIINNNGGG!”
To their credit, there was at least an effort to service both characters. You can see a very distinct example of that pictured here.
Doom’s so right though, and off the back of all the Green Lantern hysteria, the various fights in Green Lantern/Silver Surfer were a lot of fun.
I like the canvas those extra pages provide, allowing for some incidental moments, like Rayner fighting Terrax. It’s great!
I think it’s interesting too to note that, for all the emphasis on character and story, there’s a lot of amazing superhero fights coming out.
Anything Mark Millar, World War Hulk, World War III, Countdown: Arena… There’s no shortage of fun fights!
I think even if you compare something like WWH and Arena, it’s amazing how well the fights intergrate into a story, too. There’s probably a bit more credit due there, in general.
“If I recall, Superman beat Hulk with one punch. BOOORRRIIINNNGGG!”
To their credit, there was at least an effort to service both characters. You can see a very distinct example of that pictured here.
Doom’s so right though, and off the back of all the Green Lantern hysteria, the various fights in Green Lantern/Silver Surfer were a lot of fun.
I like the canvas those extra pages provide, allowing for some incidental moments, like Rayner fighting Terrax. It’s great!
I think it’s interesting too to note that, for all the emphasis on character and story, there’s a lot of amazing superhero fights coming out.
Anything Mark Millar, World War Hulk, World War III, Countdown: Arena… There’s no shortage of fun fights!
I think even if you compare something like WWH and Arena, it’s amazing how well the fights intergrate into a story, too. There’s probably a bit more credit due there, in general.
One of the things that I always enjoyed about the Marvel Universe is the great fights between the heroes. Especially the early Kirby battles. Fantastic Four 25 and 26 where the Hulk battles the FF and then the Avengers. Tales to Astonish 79 where the Hulk fights Hercules and Tales to Astonish 100 where the Hulk (again) fights Namor. Journey into Mystery 114, 115, 121, 122 where Thor squares off against Crusher Creel. JintoMy/Thor 124, 125, and 126 Thor vs. Hercules. I read them as a kid and still love them today.
I almost missed my favorite hero vs. hero battle of all time: Daredevil vs. Namor from Daredevil no. 7. The art is great and it shows why he is the man without fear.