Discussion: ‘Superman Returns’

The granddaddy of all superheroes is back — Superman Returns is finally here!

Like X-Men: The Last Stand, Team iFanboy is all over this film. Hopefully, this one will go better. The New York Office will be taking the film in Tuesday night at 10:00pm EST. The Los Angeles Office’s plans to get Tuesday tickets was thwarted. Possibly by a megalomaniacal, bald-headed business man.

Before you hit the movie — here’s 40 Things You Don’t Know About Superman!

UPDATED! Since this is movie is a sequel to Superman: The Movie and Superman II, if you haven’t seen those movies in a while here’s a 30 second refresher of the original, starring bunnies!

Are you going to see it? Of course you are! This is one of the most anticipated geek films of the year — let’s talk about it!

Just a word of advice – once you click through there will be SPOILERS so if you don’t want anything ruined for you, don’t read this thread until you’ve seen the movie.

Never have I been so simultaneously terrified and excited to see a film. I have all the faith in the world in Bryan Singer, though, so that keeps the demons at bay. That and the bourbon.

Comments

  1. Are you guys doing a special IFanboy goes to the Movies podcast?

  2. If you listened to the last podcast, Dude, you’d know that the answer is undoubtedly no.

    I mean, yes. Yes, we are. Sorry about that, I’m just so excited.

    Look for it late Thursday night!

  3. Okay, I literally just got back from seeing it and…

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

    Amazing. Simply amazing.

  4. I don’t know how to express my feelings on this movie. I just got out of it. It was two and a half hours long.
    OK. Here goes.
    Brandon Routh was perfect. His Christopher Reeve imitation is akin to that of Ewan MacGregor’s Obi-Wan. Part homage, part impersonation, but he’s taken it and run with it.
    Nothing really bothered me about this movie except for how ‘super’ he really is. Up until his life was threatened, I didn’t feel like he could be threatened. That’s more a problem with Superman as a character than a problem with the movie. It was kind of like watching Neo in Matrix:Reloaded. He could do anything and nothing can hurt him. That is until they REALLY fucked his ass up. Also, how strong is this guy?
    Did they really have to throw in that Jesus Christ pose in space? As if the whole “only son sent to Earth to show humanity the light” thing wasn’t enough?
    All that being said, I thought it was downright beautiful. It was everything I wanted it to be and more. The comedic levity moments were timed perfectly. The opening credits ruled, and so did every scene with Kevin Spacey in it.

  5. i want to see it again

    and again

  6. Having a “discussion” at work about why SUperman can fly. Anybody has the answer to this? I know he initially leaped and then in the 40s he started flying. Does the yellow sun just give him the power to fly? I need the nerd justification of Superman flying.

  7. I believe that it has to do with the Earth’s gravity being lighter thatn Krypton’s. I think they tried to explain it like that once.

    I don’t think I’ve ever heard a plausable explanation of how Superman (or any other superhero) can fly because, in reality, it defies the laws of physics.

    I obviously need assistance on this.

  8. The way I understand it- and this is after much research: Superman can fly because he RUELZ

  9. OH MY GOD!!! I saw it last night and I was totally a little kid again. My fiancee who doesn’t like comics was thrilled with the movie. DC is totally kicking ass in the movie adaptation department. What did everyone think of the Spiderman 3 trailer. I was surprised to see that the suit was fluid and flowing onto him, I expected they would do it another way for the movie.

  10. Spider-Man 3 trailer discussion:

    http://www.ifanboy.com/archives/000907.html

  11. I’ll check my copy of “The Science of Superheroes” book at home to see what the explanation on how/why he flies…stay tuned for a few hours for the scientific explanation.

  12. I like that the reporter mentions Gotham. And damn if the opening credits didn’t make me feel like a little kid again.

  13. I’m saving thoughts on this until the podcast, but I didn’t walk out the same way as I did for the last one we watched.

    This whole, how does he fly question. This came up a little while ago because a friend of mine was doing a stand up act involving Superheroes, and he calls me for all superhero related queries. I said, I didn’t really know. So I write to my friend who was a regular writer on a Supes book a little while back, and he didn’t really have an answer either. This lead me to the conclusion that there is no real answer. Granted, my friend is NOT Mark Waid, who probably does know the answer.

  14. I LOVED the movie but…is it just me or was Lex’s “big evil” plan kinda really lame? Almost like it wasn’t exactly thought out completly. Movie was still spectacular. Opening credits set the tone of movie as a true event and made it a legit Superman movie.
    Best destruction of Krypton I’ve ever seen! Also, that city floating around made me think of Kandor. Foreshadowing or am I just crazy?

  15. My theory is that Superman’s skin is so atomically dense that neutrinos directly apply large amounts of force to him, and he somehow harnesses this force to fly.

  16. ‘Superman Returns’ With a Bang

    Bryan Singer’s Superman Returns posted a mighty $21,015,000 in ticket sales on its opening day Wednesday, including midnight screenings the previous night, according to unofficial figures posted by the industry website Showbiz Data today (Thursday). Although well ahead of last year’s $15.1-million opening of Batman Begins, the figure paled compared with the $40.5 million taken in during the July 2004 opening day of Spider-Man 2, which holds the record for the biggest box-office take for a Wednesday opener. It also ranks considerably below the Wednesday opening of The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, which debuted with $34.5 million in December 2003.

  17. Has anybody here seen the movie and loved it despite not being a big Superman fan? I can’t really get into the man of steel (I can believe a man can fly, but not that someone immortal and bulletproof is in any danger from Gene Hackman in an ascot) but between Singer, Spacey, and modern movie effects my curiosity is definitely piqued.

    For that matter: anybody see the movie in IMAX/3D? I’m trying to decide whether or not schlepping all the way out to the ‘burbs would be worth it for that extra shot of ‘wow.’

  18. A Superman fan in what sense? A Superman comic book fan? A fan of the original movies? Just a Superman fan in general?

  19. Great Caesar’s ghost, indeed.

    Saw the movie at Grauman’s Chinese Theatre last night. Blown away. Things I loved:

    1 – opening credit sequence done like the 1978 film. The crowd went BONKERS when they realized what was happening. When the “S” came on, they went crazy

    2 – destruction of Krypton – so cool

    3 – plane sequence

    I dunno, I could go on, I am just curious as to what people thought of the acting. I thought Kate was actually the weakest link, and despite what Knowle’s wrote, I thought that Parker Posey was fantastic, a great foil..that one scene where Lex asks “what did my father tell me?” was hilarious.

    I loved the references (Action #1 cover), I loved the winks (when you first see the 777 and shuttle/space plane, it looks fake, but of course, we reveal it as just a video within the plane itself, then pull out to the “real” 777…) and I thought Routh did a great job balancing our memories of Reeve and adding something almost pained, restrained, and gently alien to the performance. He was so comfortable with his flying, with his powers, he had a easy demeanor which I did not expect.

    I won’t go on and on (first of many posts), but massive props to Singer and his crew–this movie went way beyond my expectations…I couldn’t but have some pretty high ones, too…

    great movie, can’t wait to see it again!!
    -mike

  20. A Superman fan in what sense?

    I’m curious to hear whatever fandom anybody brought into the theater with them. For example, Roger Ebert didn’t like the new movie, but it helps to know that he loved the Christopher Reeve original and gave it four stars. As for me, I loved the Reeve movies as a kid but can’t get anywhere near them now without being overpowered by the smell of corn. I’ve tried out a lot of Superman books in my life, but I never manage to stick around for more than a few issues. I liked Birthright; I really liked Secret Identity; I loved Red Son. As you can see, any Superman movie would be a crapshoot for me.

  21. As far as seeing it on 3-D goes, I am sure most would agree that it might make sense when seeing the film for the second time. there are only 20 minutes of 3-D scenes (contiguous, apparently). I guess a little light or some kind of notification comes up telling the audience to scramble to get their glasses on. sounds lame.

    The rest of the movie will be in 2D, just big…and cut off. the last time I saw an IMAX transfer (Episode 2, with my (now) father-in-law), I was disgusted. You lose so much of the movie (remember, it’s a square screen) and I noticed some pixelation and some artifacts.

    I dunno. IMAX seems to work well for documentaries that allow you to just sit and stare at fairly static scenes for awhile, giving you a chance to look around and focus on different parts of the screen. Seeing a regular movie…eh–it’s just not that big a deal, IMHO…I would much rather see it on some fat widescreen via digital projection..

  22. I just saw it in 3D. AMAZING! This is the best superhero movie ever made. My jaw was on the floor almost the entire film . . . and Brandon Routh is AMAZING! He had my favorite acting moment in the film. EVERYONE is superb! Parker Posey rocks and so does Martsen from X-Men. Spacey is always great and I can’t wait for the next film. I hope Routh becomes a super star! He is SUPERMAN!

  23. Seeing Superman in 3D is the best way to go. It looked great. All the best parts in 3D were worth the extra couple bucks.

  24. Here’s a movie nitpick I missed in the podcast.

    Supes lifted the big kryptonite island and threw it into the sun. And it looked like he did this by harnessing his strength and fighting the effects of the kryptonite. Now, I’m not exactly sure how it works, but isn’t it more of a physiological thing? I mean, the kryptonite takes away his powers. And he can concentrate and push and do everything and snort, but all that doesn’t change the fact that he should lose his powers when in the presence of that much kryptonite. Am I wrong?

    Also, this is just for the purposes of discussion, and doesn’t change a thing about how I felt about this movie. But you know that.

  25. I’m not a Superman fan. Rarely read his comics, unless it’s the Justice League. But I do watch the movies when i was little. I’m more into Batman now, but I love DC universe in general.

    Anyway, I absolutely gone bonkers in the cinema. The plane rescue scene, I almost sat up from my seat and applaud to the screen :D. I really, really loves the movie.

    I truly concur with the sentiment that listening to the theme song again takes you back to your childhood all over again. I’m planning on seeing it again sometimes this week.

    Singer, I forgive you for leaving X-Men for this one. Cheers

  26. Josh,
    regarding that, I thought he’s recharging before he went lifting the island. Also, if he lifted it all the way to space, he must’ve got bathed with the sun when he flew above the clouds.

    Just my thought though 🙂

  27. Supes lifted the big kryptonite island and threw it into the sun. And it looked like he did this by harnessing his strength and fighting the effects of the kryptonite. Now, I’m not exactly sure how it works, but isn’t it more of a physiological thing? I mean, the kryptonite takes away his powers. And he can concentrate and push and do everything and snort, but all that doesn’t change the fact that he should lose his powers when in the presence of that much kryptonite. Am I wrong?

    I don’t believe that Kryptonite takes Superman’s powers AWAY, strictly speaking. It’s a toxic substance – it HURTS. It’s poison. I would imagine that as he is dying his powers weaken just as if you or I were dying we’d not be able to run as fast or lift heavy objects.

    Green Kryptonite: The most common form of kryptonite. In superpowered Kryptonians, causes immediate physical pain and debilitation and kills within hours. Has no short-term effects on humans (though strictly in post-Crisis continuity, long-term exposure is apparently lethal to humans) or non-superpowered Kryptonians. In one early Silver Age story, Superboy built up immunity to specific chunks of green kryptonite through repeated non-fatal exposure, as seen in the story “The Great Kryptonite Mystery”, (Superboy (volume 1) #58, July 1957). In most incarnations, lead blocks the effects of kryptonite.

  28. Ipod broke yesterday morning, so no podcast for me until I get an hour alone at home in front of the computer.

  29. Also, this is just for the purposes of discussion, and doesn’t change a thing about how I felt about this movie.

    I think that’s the lynchpin of the Good Movie Test. If the movie works, stuff like that doesn’t matter; if the movie doesn’t work, that stuff is all you can think about as you’re watching. That’s the rule right before “Beware anyone saying, ‘Oh, it’s a fun popcorn movie.'”

    Clearly, I’m going to have to go see this one tomorrow. My only nagging question: why Kate Bosworth? You’ve already got Parker Posey right there; just switch ’em, and you’ve got the perfect cast. (He said, having not even seen the movie yet.)

  30. My only nagging question: why Kate Bosworth? You’ve already got Parker Posey right there; just switch ’em, and you’ve got the perfect cast.

    Eek!

    Also, Posey’s too old for the role.

  31. I saw the Imax version which in my opnion is the only way to see it.

    The 3D scenes are: On the farm, the shuttle rescue, the yacht rescue, and the very end swooping about stuff.

    I’ve now decided that Bryan Singer makes great superhero movies with barely any rewatch value. They capture so much of what makes these characters great but then can’t quite go that extra step to cement the movies as instant classics. Maybe now that the bar has been set so high with great comic movies being made it’s impossible to please everybody, but I know I’ve had this conversation with folks about X1 being very boring the second time around.

    I thought Superman was a perfectly entertaining movie but completely held back by its homages to the original. The action scenes were great, especially in 3D, Brandon Routh does a great job, and kevin Spacey, while underused was pretty good.

    But for every great bit we are forced to watch meaningless minutes with Cyclops and Parker Posey. And a much too long running time. It was great in 1978 when we saw Supes carrying Margot Kidder around but now, it just feels like it’s bogging down the story.

    I was entertained but was hoping for something more memorable.

    I think it was Conor who said that hopefully this is what X1 was to X2.

  32. I didn’t say that – dunno who did.

    I was thinking on the way out of the theater that as much as I loved the film (and I did), I really want the next one to feature some Superman/super villain throwdown action. Dramatic mid-air rescues are fun and exciting, but I think in the next one I really need someone to get punched through a building.

  33. Listening to the podcast’s “did you notice” section.

    I noticed Branson…did you see the “Virgin Galactic” tag in the shuttle as well?

    What else did you guys notice?

  34. Eek!

    Yeah, with a little reflection I’m already reconsidering that one. She’d be apt for the brassy “chief, how do you spell ‘massacre’?” 1940’s newshound screwball comedy stuff, but I don’t really see her as a romantic lead. Which is kind of important now that I think about it.

    As for being too old, the whole cast seems a little young to me. How old are these people supposed to be, with their five-year-old sons and their top jobs in their chosen professions?

  35. I thought that cast was a good age for “just starting out”, but too young for “five years later”.

    Hell, the actors who play Clark and Lois on Smallville are older (and look older), playing younger vesions of the characters.

    But that’s a minor point, I think.

  36. Don’t hurt me…

    I thought it was boring. And I didn’t really like it. At all. I didn’t understand how he could throw the big island when just before that, standing on top of it, a bunch of thugs beat the crap out of him and he didn’t have any powers. And then he’s carrying it into space?

    And Superboy? So… so Superman is a deadbeat dad?

    I’m kinda joking about that one, but… I don’t know. I don’t like Superman (the character) to begin with, but I think I went in with low expectations. I needed more Kevin Spacey. There was no attention paid to the villain at all.

    I think that the problem was mostly with the script for me. Just my .02

  37. What can I say?

    I believe a man can fly.

  38. aw.

  39. All I can say is that they did everything right, just like Batman Begins. Arguably the best superhero movie ever made. Much better than X1 or X2, slightly better than Spidey 1 and 2. The flying was fantastic and the plane sequence was perfect. Thank God for computers. Singer gets a huge pat on the back for this one. The guy knows what he’s doing.

    And hats off to DC for taking a huge risk with the Superman mythos. Done with care, the Superboy sequel could be fantastic. Let’s hope Spacey will sign on for another turn as Lex.

  40. We’ve got Doug. If Darrell agrees with us, it will be unprecedented!

  41. Am I the only one who thought Parker Posey was awesome? I thought she was wiggy but really grounded in realism. I could tell she wasn’t faking it when the breaks went out. Anyway… I really liked her character and just thought she rocked.

    Daydreaming:
    I think Lois will be pregnant in the comics and this is why they killed Superboy in Infinite Crisis. Conner will return as Supernova in 52. Lois will give birth to Jason, the new Superboy. In the comic they just added the fortress of solitude that’s just like the movie one. Why not a superbaby/human.
    Why can’t the comic Superman be anywhere as interesting as the movie Superman?
    Maybe they can add Chloe to the next Superman movie as Clark tries to move on without Lois?

    Also, in the coming movies, I think Jason may go bad. He killed one of Luthor’s goons with the piano. This bothered me. Usually when a character kills they go bad. Just daydreaming. . . Thinking . . .

  42. I always like Parker, so I had no problem with her, I love her – she cracks me up – I do agree with Josh though and wonder why we needed a Ms. Tessmacher clone, but since it was Parker, I’m ok with it.

  43. Yeah, Posey herself wasn’t a problem at all. As an actor, she was great, but I wasn’t sure of the relevance of the character. I mean, why not just call her Tessmacher? It’s not like Hackman’s still playing Luthor?

    When they were showing the maps of Luthor’s landmass, how many people were thinking the word “Otisburg?”

  44. I just returned from the IMAX theater, and I’m glad I saw it that way. As for the movie itself… rarely have I disagreed with so many intelligent, articulate people at once. I’m almost hesitant to say anything more; I know when I’m outnumbered.

    Speaking of saying anything, I wonder if there’ll be room in the budget for the next movie to give Superman lines to say. Or any inner life.

    How ’bout that five-year-old killing the dude in cold blood and not seeming to ever think about it again? That was… somethin’.

    I know now there’s something worse than an invulnerable, omnipotent superbeing beating on a bald man in an ascot: an invulnerable, omnipotent superbeing not beating on a bald man in an ascot. He stabs Superman, attempts to kill billions of people, and in the end he gets away? They never catch him and bring him to justice? Very, very, very unsatisfying.

    One super power of Clark’s rarely discussed is his amazing super-balance. A jet plane? A cruise ship? A continent? Superman will hold it over his head at the most improbable angle you have ever seen, and it will never break or bend or tip or fall. Superman is the best Jenga player who has ever lived.

    He gets stabbed in the gut and, with a giant chunk of poison in his gut, he lifts a continent made out of poison into space? Jimski spotters looking for the point at which the movie lost me forever need look no further. Why not just pick up America and move it over a few feet? Then everyone can be happy.

    I do agree with iFanboy that Superman’s imperfection, especially in the beatdown scene, makes the movie better. The movie had some good moments, and the hospital scene was definitely one of them. Never seen that before.

  45. Are you just being contrary for the sake of it? 😉

    You make valid and justifiable points. I guess for me, it just didn’t matter. Perhaps it was a case of tone and character over the details that don’t quite add up, but I just found myself enjoying it so much, that I didn’t care about that.

    I did consider many of the things you bring up. It’s hard not to. Actually, I think John Byrne wrote some silly extra superpower which explains how Superman could hold up things which shouldn’t be able to stand up under their own strength, but this is one case where suspension of disbelief really served me well. It was exactly that. I DID want to believe a man could fly, or do any of that other stuff.

    As far as Luthor’s retribution…I see your point, but I would argue that the story just wasn’t actually about Luthor all that much. That’s a common complaint, that there wasn’t enough of Lex in it, but again, oddly enough, he wasn’t the crux of the story.

    I did get the feeling that when this movie was over, it was not over. Meaning, there were many unresolved issues. But then, that guy, he deserved to die by piano, so why not? In comics, I never feel like the villains are appropriately dealt with, and it’s ususally because they have to be available for future use. So perhaps I’m used to it.

    You’ve both intelligently and articulately disagreed with us, and we’ve done so back. This should be a model for the future of the world.

    One question: Is this DVD going to end up on your shelf some day? Because if that answer is yes….

  46. The point about tone and character is a good one. The thing that makes the original hard for me to watch now is that the people making the movie seem to keep winking at the audience. One of the things I once loved about the X-Men movies (sigh) and liked about this Superman movie is that, whatever else they may do, they treat the material seriously.

    I can also admit that although I did watch the movie with an increasing amount of “harrumph! humbug!”, when Lois saw Superman back on earth for the first time I was all, “I– it’s nothing! I seem to have something in my eye! Sniff!” And when Supes snuck in and talked to his sleeping, murdering baby boy… well, I’m not made of stone. I was moved in a way that took me by surprise a few times.

    In the grand scheme of things, I guess I just would have rather been moved by Rogue and Wolverine this summer. Que sera, sera.

    It was a movie I didn’t care for with several nice surprising moments that I did like. (I think my favorite moment in the entire movie was when the scary, freaky henchman just sat down at the piano and started playing along with the kid.) But no, unless somebody buys it for me this Christmas (I think we all have this relative: “I remember something about Jim liking comic books; let’s just get him Jennifer Garner’s ‘Elektra'”) this one will not make it to my DVD shelf.

  47. Ron said “Nucular Man.”

  48. They both say nucular.

    Maddening. I blame Bush.

  49. ‘Superman’ Stays Solid on Opening Weekend
    by Brandon Gray
    July 2, 2006

    Dormant for 19 years, Superman relaunched on the big screen at a time when superheroes and super-inflated opening grosses run rampant in theaters, and, while his reception was much softer than newer men in tights like Spider-Man and X-Men, he hovered slightly above the debut of Batman’s reboot last summer.

    Swooping onto about 8,200 screens at 4,065 locations, Warner Bros.’ Superman Returns rocketed to an estimated $84.2 million in five days, selling about as many tickets initially as the first X-Men, which was also directed by Bryan Singer. Included in the tally was $5 million from 76 IMAX theaters, the highest-grossing IMAX opening on record, eclipsing Batman Begins’ $3.1 million.

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=2106&p=.htm

    More in link.

  50. I saw it again on Saturday and loved it just as much the second time. The audience was limp, though. They clapped at the end and there were smatterings of clapping after Superman saved people, but… That’s definitely the kind of movie to go see with a cheer-happy crowd.

    Anyway, something else I noticed the second time around that I did not see the first time was photos of Glenn Ford in the house in Smallville. Which was cool.

  51. Sometimes, Kurtz really gets it right:
    http://www.pvponline.com/archive.php3?archive=20060702

  52. Hurm.

    The good of the movie:

    1. The airplane rescue sequence. Although Lois was abused more than a 13-year old boy’s wankus, that scene was up there with the killer sequences from the Matrix trilogy, the sweet Doc Ock/Spidey battles in Spiderman Deux, and the lovemaking scene from ‘The Tall Guy’. Awesome times infinity – good stuff.

    2. The FX in general. I got a little too much CGI-ness from the one money shot of Supes pushing the island into space as he is looking down at the camera — he had too much of that shiny rubber texture thing going on his face and body. However, the coolness of the airplane sequence (see good point numero uno) and the flying sequences in the city (I got shades of Jedi from these as well; that whole extinguishing-the-flaming-gas bit of flying was almost a quote of the Millenium Falcon reverse penetrating Death Star II down to the red color of the pipes and the whole flame-coming-from -behind thing) along with the nice use of heat vision for problem solving was top notch.

    3. Kevin Spacey rocks the casbah as Luthor although like the boys said in their review podcast, I could have used more pure malicious evil — cue lightning and ominous music.

    4. I dug Routh as Supes and as Kent. It did take me a bit to get over the nasality (is that a word??) in his voice but for the most part, I dug his performance.

    5. All the retro touches to link the film to the work that Donner did. The music — ah, sweet Jesus that march!!!! — and the pics of Glenn Ford and the whole title sequence and Brando and the design of the Fortress . . . . ’twas enough to make my poor geek heart thump in joy.

    The bad:

    1. The second half of the flick was capital-B BORING. Yikes – this is Superman and $200 million in change on the screen here. Can’t we have more action, more plot movement, more excitement?

    John Lasseter told a story in a recent Forbes/Fortune piece — can’t remember which mag, actually — about how at a recent animated film created by his competition, he knew that the movie had lost the attention of his youngest son when the tyke turned to John and asked how many letters were in his name. This sums up the second half of ‘SR’ – we’ve shot a significant portion of our wad showing Supes rescuing an out-of-control passenger jet and being all bad ass.

    I don’t claim to have a solution for the eternal problem of how do you make a worthy opponent for Superman and thus, create compelling interest in his survival/plight within the story but then again, I wasn’t paid a ton of dough to actually come up with a story. I thus feel free to throw stones.

    2. The idea of Superman having a son with Lois. Plot-holes aside – just how does Lois know that the boy is Superman’s when he made her forget that they bumped uglies in ‘Superman II’ or even, since he was supposedly made powerless and a “normal” vulnerable man by the bright red light before they did the horizontal clam and sausage bake, wouldn’t the product of that union be powerless as well?? – it doesn’t make sense story-wise to introduce such a serious weight to the mythos and future sequels. I will buy into Josh/Ron/Conor’s point that taking this “risk” will allow them to tell new stories but come on, we now have to sit through a flick where one or more of the following things will happen:

    A. Jason’s powers will be wonky and unpredictable due to his human heritage and will only come through at the end of the story at ‘just the right time’

    B. Jason will sacrifice himself to save his Dad or Mom and thus, we’ll have a scene that references how he was a true hero because of this

    C. Jason will be corrupted by someone like Luthor and will have to fight his Dad but will have a convenient plot-related change of heart that will allow this to be forgotten

    D. Jason will learn to use his powers and do crazy stuff like burn part of the school down with heat vision

    I could go on but you catch my groove here. We’ve all seen the ‘I have a son?’ story and this yarn only has so many permutations — even if it is Superman’s boy.

    3. Why does Kal Penn never speak? What the frak was up with that?

    4. Kate Bosworth. I think she was dolphin-flogging goodness in that surfer chick movie and I admit to finding her attractive in a I-wish-I-were-her-pants kind of way in other flicks she’s done but here…yikes. I’ve seen Popsicle sticks that were less wooden than her. I’ve seen marble sculptures that had more life.

    5. Lack of judicious editing. It would have been kind to the glacial pace of the flick to have cut a few scenes. As they said on the podcast, what did we get from Superman’s little flashback sequence? How about the excess stuff between Richard and Lois? Since they pussified Luthor’s interaction with the dead rich broad at the beginning of the movie, why even have that whole sequence as Luthor’s intro? Why not make it a bit more short and/or story related? My guess is that due to the high amounts of buckage that were dropped on the flick, Singer felt like he had to have enough to make the film at least feel substantial. I think they went a bit far with this.

    In general, yes – it was better than X3 but then again, so was ‘My Little Pony:The Movie’. I admit to wanting more and feeling as though the movie was a less filling cinematic meal than I would have liked. I look forward to ‘Superman Returns For More’ or whatever they’re going to call it — I just hope we get the bad-assery as a result of our wait.

    — Drew
    http://www.scifiscoundrels.com

  53. Why does Kal Penn never speak? What the frak was up with that?

    He actually did speak! Um, once. I caught it the second time I saw the movie. He’s got one line when the henchmen show up in the buller-ridden van (which was a nice touch). It happened so fast and I was so surprised that I don’t even remember it enough to quote it back to you.

  54. I’m telling you, the director’s cut or the DVD is gonna have a crapload of Lex and his cronies scenes…I bet that’s where the majority of the cutting came from…i have no data to back this up, just my speculation.

  55. I cant believe you guys are giving Singer such a free pass with this movie.How can Lois remember having an affair with superman but not remember that he revealed he was Clark kent to her? This is a sequal to Superman 2 right? The characters were great and so was the special effects and production but some of this film bored me and my fiance and kids to tears. My boy is a fellow superman geek a he is 11 and he just started to lose interest after the shuttle scene. This movie was jammed with too much of the looking off into space being sad scenes. Lex was just too silly to me. I would have loved to have seen a metropolis that was seduced by a smart Lex Luthor who turned out to be just the same evil genius that took advantage of a world without Superman. I like the idea of Supes and Lois having a child but instead of being so vague about his conception why not have a real discussion between Lois and Supes about why she lied to him and why he left without saying goodbye.How was the world affected by not having a protector for 5 years. I know that some people would blame superman because something bad happened that he could have prevented. I dont see the world being that forgiving. You crap on X 3 every chance you get to say how much better this movie is but come on fellows this was far from perfect.

  56. It’s funny that you bring tis up Darrel, the more I talk about Superman, the more I recommend it to people, the more I think about the negative aspects. Not to say that I didn’t enjoy it, I really really did, much more so than X3. But the nagging things to me are more along the lines of the lack of Lex and the overloading on the Supes/Lois storylines and not enough about the threat Lex presented.

    As far as Lois not remembering his identity but remembering sleeping with him etc, that’s a tough road to hoe, and I’m not giving Singer a free pass, rather sympathizing with the difficulty of making a movie that is linked to the previous movie, but not required viewing for the masses That’s a challenge.

    I believe I said in thepodcast, and if i didn’t say it as strongly as I should have, my bad, but I my stance on the movie was that I loved it, 4 stars, but it wasn’t perfect and there were flaws (mainly Lois and the lack of Lex/developing Lex’s storylines)

    Although, I have to admit, I’m a sucker for shots of people staring off into space…that gets me everytime 😉

  57. I know that the overload of Superman/Lois was a major problem for me and my family during the film. I think its important to have it but so is the menace of Lex and the action and power of Superman. I enjoyed X3 and soi did my fiance because it gave us what we came to see and that was the Xmen in a major battle for humanity. Superman returns gave us teasers of what we wanted to see and that was a boackbuster Superman story that is well written and shocking from start to finish.

  58. You crap on X 3 every chance you get to say how much better this movie is but come on fellows this was far from perfect.

    Who said this movie was perfect?

    After seeing it a second time and thinking about it some more, I think that it’s not a hard and fast rule that EVERYTHING happened from the first two films. I think it’s enough to say that before Superman left he and Lois obviosuly had a romance and there was some sex in there somewhere.

  59. How can Lois remember having an affair with superman but not remember that he revealed he was Clark kent to her?

    I don’t know that she did remember an affair. I didn’t see anything in the movie that made me think Lois even suspected her child wasn’t Mr. White’s until he started killing b****es Roger Rabbit-style. Everybody else seemed to suspect it, but Lois was either lying to herself or genuinely unaware.

    Then again, when the pianos started flying, Lois didn’t seem to be bothered by the realization of any forgotten supersex. So who knows?

    Personally, I wouldn’t want to be bound to the continuity of those old Superman movies too much. If you thought Lex was too silly in this one, devote a moment of silent reflection to Mr. Ned Beatty and I think you’ll feel much better about Bryan Singer’s movie.

  60. I know you didn’t just besmirch Otis!

    Personally, I wouldn’t want to be bound to the continuity of those old Superman movies too much.

    This is the point I was trying to make before. Take what works for you, and throw out the rest.

  61. I think it was only marginally connected to the previous films, and the details they didn’t want to keep, they didn’t. We’re all smart enough to follow along and fill in the blurry lines. If that’s not your taste, then you won’t like the flick.

  62. Personally, I wouldn’t want to be bound to the continuity of those old Superman movies too much.
    Well, I’ll grant this to Singer as a result of the good will he generated with what worked in the film. However, I think it is a cheat plot-wise — and I’d sleep better at night seeing it addressed in canon via the next flick.

  63. http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=10

    Steven Grant on Superman:

    I still haven’t seen SUPERMAN RETURNS, probably won’t unless somebody spots me in, but the reviews and box office furor have been fascinating. How do you have a film pull in $52 million in three days and be projected for over a hundred mil in a week, and have industry analysts call it a bomb? When production topped two hundred mil. (In the economy of Hollywood, that translates to roughly half a billion dollars when other costs like printing, shipping and promotion, though some of that gets paid back via merchandising tie-ins, though, I’d assume, a lot of that would get credited to DC Comics. Or should be, if it isn’t.) No doubt they’ll eventually make all their money back on foreign and ancillary (AKA DVD) markets, but Hollywood studios don’t want to just make their money back, they want to make lots and lots of profit, something no studio has been seeing much of lately. Factor in that the July 4th weekend is traditionally among the hottest film weekends of the year, and Hollywood’s general response to the response to SUPERMAN RETURNS is dour. (By comparison, the counter-release THE DEVIL WORE PRADA took in $27 mil over the weekend, and is being touted as a hit, mainly because it well exceeded expectations – it more than survived against SUPERMAN RETURNS, for one thing – and it cost a hell of a lot less to make.)

    The reviews have been ambivalent as well. Virtually everyone noted it was an “homage” to the 1977 Richard Donner SUPERMAN, though whether it was an improvement, a modernization, or a knockoff appears subject to debate. More than a few noted the Christian allegory infused into the material. Others noted something a lot of Superman fans just don’t want to recognize: Superman is no longer enough.

    The Donner film was launched with the tagline “You’ll believe a man can fly.” A friend of mine said the theme of the new film was “You’ll believe a man can lift heavy things.” When SUPERMAN was released, superhero films were a rare thing, and even then watching someone flying on a movie screen wasn’t that big a deal, but we were willing to ignore that, just for the novelty of Superman. What you saw of the character in the media was most the relatively inept SUPERFRIENDS style cartoons; to the general population, the film version did genuinely round out and humanize the character some. But now superhero films are fairly common, and no longer stigmatized; watching a character fly is nothing compared to watching a character fly while on fire! (Hawkman, in the comics, fell victim to a similar trend; when Hawkman began, the idea of someone flying like a bird was still a relative novelty, but by the time Hawkman returned in the ’60s, there were very few characters who didn’t fly and the character never again achieved the popularity it had known in the 1940s. Or Ant-Man, who was never very popular and had, as John Belushi disdainfully put it on a SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE, “the proportional strength of a human!”) The ante has upped. Even strictly on the terms of the character, Superman has had a great run in various SUPERMAN and JUSTICE LEAGUE cartoons; any film version has to live up to perceptions of them as well, and those were far more sophisticated versions of the character than have even appeared in most recent comics.

    The problem with Superman is that the character really doesn’t make any sense. Oh, at the core he does: an orphan using his extraordinary abilities to protect his adoptive home. There’s an emotional tug there that’s simple to grasp. But no one seems to have any faith in that core anymore. What creators in particular fix on is the trappings. And the trappings are what don’t make sense, particularly to the young. Why on earth does Superman need a costume? Answer: he doesn’t. Why does Superman need a secret identity? Answer: he doesn’t. I know a lot of Superman fans out there are now shrieking “Objection! Asked and answered, your honor!” because comics have answered questions like these time and time again, but the problem there is that the answers make no sense. Superman hears a cry for help, and pauses from the rescue to change clothes! He needs a secret identity so he can live “a normal life”? Why would he want to? He’s Superman. So he, as reporter Clark Kent, can stay on top of the news so Superman knows where all the emergencies are? Like Clark Kent covers all that? So he can fairly win Lois Lane’s heart? But he’s really Superman! Why does he insist she fall for his cover story? Why would he even want to take the time off from being Superman? Isn’t Superman supposed to be out there helping people?

    Conversely, Batman makes sense, even now. He wants to avenge his parents’ death. He dresses as Batman because the costume scares criminals and adds to his mystique. Spider-Man makes sense. He’s a neurotic college kid who suddenly gains strange powers and realizes their potential for screwing up his life but feels a responsibility to use them, so he creates a second identity for himself. But Superman doesn’t need any of that. He’s Superman, and the trappings that weigh him down were really little considered Jerry Siegel cribs from his source materials, like dual identity of THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL, if not much later additions by other hands.

    But way too many people, particularly within the comics community, identify Superman with his trappings and consider them immutable, and those trappings are no longer relevant. They’re just confusing, and where they may once have given the character the sense of a more “real” existence, today the effect is the opposite.

    Which is, perhaps, why some fans and creators have spent the past few years beating to death the idea of Superman as Christ allegory, which apparently strongly surfaces in the new film via Superman’s dad, Jor-El, a long dead disembodied voice who now no longer sent his “only son” to Earth because that was the only available planet with humanoid life his telescope could find, but to “save” them – and, of course, ala the 1992 “Death of Superman” arc, which started up a lot of this nonsense, his apparent death seems to cast the world into darkness until he rises to fulfill his mission of earthly salvation. Good god, literally. For Christians, isn’t this new identification of Superman with Christ a bit, um, blasphemous? (Not that he’s the only heavy-handed Christ analog floating around comics in the last couple decades, by a long shot, and the whole bit is more than a little tired.) And why would anyone who’s not a Christian have even the slightest interest in this?

    Anyway, if Jerry Siegel had any Biblical analogies in mind for Superman, it was almost surely Moses, cast incognito down the Nile to adoption as a baby to save his life and let him grow to be a man of greatness, than Jesus. And maybe he just shares Moses’ destiny as well: to deliver his people to the Promised Land, but be unable to enter himself.

  64. However, I think it is a cheat plot-wise — and I’d sleep better at night seeing it addressed in canon via the next flick.

    Does this really bother you? I mean, at the core of this, we’re talking about a movie made in 1981 being joined to a movie made in 2006 about an alien superman. Why is it that all the puzzle pieces have to fit together exactly? Does it really matter? I know to some it does, but I guess it doesn’t to me.

    Most of the complaints I’ve heard about this movie have to do with how it relates to the one’s that came before it. But that was a quarter century ago, and film making has evolved somewhat, so why does it matter?

  65. If Ratner did the same movie would you say it doesnt matter? I really get the feeling that Singer is getting a pass on a flimsy plot because of his previous work.

  66. I won’t speak for Josh, but for myself I’d say that if Ratner had made the film I still wouldn’t have cared about the continuity stuff because as Josh said, it’s a quasi-sequel to a movie made 25 years ago. It’s not going to be perfect in that sense.

    Besides, a Ratner helmed Superman movie would have had a whole other set of problems to focus on.

  67. how hard is it to just have Superman and Lois have a real conversation on what happened. Another part of the movie that seemed off was that you have a strong woman who gave her heart and body to superman and he left for 5 years without a word. She got pregnant and with no way to contact superman she was left alone to raise their child. I would think she would be very angry and hurt by that. But she gets over it after one flying trip and no real explaination for why he left besides the world always needs a savior.

  68. It is as simple as the fact that I didn’t like the way Ratner told that story, as I’ve never liked anything he’s directed. To me, his directing is subpar and uninteresting. However, he seems to sate the masses, so more power to him. I’m one customer he doesn’t have. If I see a trailer and it’s a movie by Brett Ratner, I’ll likely avoid it for that reason.

    Conversely, I like the way Singer makes a movie, and always have. Except Apt Pupil. I never saw that. It has nothing to do with these little details. It has to do with the overall style of filmmaking. When Bryan Singer directs a movie, I think about seeing it, because Bryan Singer directed it.

    But that is subjective. You don’t have to like it. We can only give you our opinions.

  69. how hard is it to just have Superman and Lois have a real conversation on what happened.

    Have you ever run into an ex that you haven’t seen for five years? Someone you deeply loved? I haven’t, she was only someone I kinda thought I could love and even then it was awkward as hell. Plus, I wasn’t all caught up with being the returning savior and Lex Luthor wasn’t trying to kill me.

    Another part of the movie that seemed off was that you have a strong woman who gave her heart and body to superman and he left for 5 years without a word. She got pregnant and with no way to contact superman she was left alone to raise their child. I would think she would be very angry and hurt by that. But she gets over it after one flying trip and no real explaination for why he left besides the world always needs a savior.

    She didn’t know it was Superman’s kid. She thought it was Richard’s. She didn’t raise the kid alone, she raised him with Richard. I thought those two points were fairly clearly spelled out and they were hammered home in the prequel comics.

  70. I didnt read the prequal comics and a better written movie would not not make it necessary. It did not look like she didnt know the child was Supermans. It looked like she hid that fact to protect their child and everyone i spoke too who saw it and on other websites have said the same thing.

  71. As I said, “I thought those two points were fairly clearly spelled out…”, meaning in the movie. I saw the movie on Tuesday night and read the comic on Wednesday and I was certain that Lois thought the kid was Richard’s before I read the comic. It was obvious to me. I can’t speak for anyone else, though.

  72. Maybe half-kryptonian babies have a longer gestation period?

    I didn’t read any of the prequel comics. Well, I read the first, and it was stupid, but I got that she didn’t know it was Supes kid either.

    Either way, I think we can all agree that Lois is a slut.

  73. I think this movie did a really good job of fooling me into thinking it was really good. I really can’t think of anything objective that I can pinpoint as something I didn’t like or at least didn’t enjoy. But I didn’t walk away from the movie feeling like I saw something truly great. I had that from X2 and Spider-Man 2, even to an extent from Batman Begins. This movie, although I found several scenes very emotional, lacked an on the whole emotional resonance. And I think I’ve narrowed down the cause to the last 30 minutes.

    Amazing Spider-Man #32-33 (I think those are the right issues). The one where Spidey is trapped underneath the giant metal thing and Doc Ock’s lair is about to fill up with water and he has to get surfaceside again or else Aunt May is going to die. Everyone has read those two issues and, if you haven’t, you should. That’s what we should have had at the end of SR when he’s lifting up the giant kryptonian crystal structure. Instead what we get is just him burrowing underneath and pushing it into space acting just like it’s maybe really heavy, not the very bane of his existence. Superman lifts stuff all the time, that’s not compelling. The man is pretty much invulnerable, if he’s to be compelling it has to be because he is in a situation that is beyond his control. Just seeing him pushing a rock into space, when it should be killing him doesn’t do it for me.

    Then there’s the whole issue of the kid. Are you going to tell me that a man with X-ray vision misses the fact he impregnates a woman? Are you going to tell me that any really good, moral guy, with or without X-ray vision, is just going to take off for five years right after sleeping with her? One of the aspects of the Superman character I really like is that it’s not the powers that make him Superman, it’s the character of the man that make him a hero. This is the idea that even if he didn’t have his superpowers, he’d still be doing everything he could that’d be right. And I just can’t buy into the fact that he’d sleep with Lois and then just take off, possibly leaving her with a child that isn’t his.

  74. Then there’s the whole issue of the kid. Are you going to tell me that a man with X-ray vision misses the fact he impregnates a woman? Are you going to tell me that any really good, moral guy, with or without X-ray vision, is just going to take off for five years right after sleeping with her? One of the aspects of the Superman character I really like is that it’s not the powers that make him Superman, it’s the character of the man that make him a hero. This is the idea that even if he didn’t have his superpowers, he’d still be doing everything he could that’d be right. And I just can’t buy into the fact that he’d sleep with Lois and then just take off, possibly leaving her with a child that isn’t his.

    Do you think that he checks the womb of every woman he has sex with right afterwards to check on possible impregnation? Don’t you think he would view that as an invasion of privacy? It’s not like checking Lois’s body to make sure she wasn’t dying in the helicopter.

    I do think he would just take off and leave, even if he did just sleep with Lois. That’s the whole point. He was so desperate for a connection to his home world that on the slightest, most miniscule chance that someone else from Krypton might be out there, he took off for five years. That’s the tragedy of the character, and the irony of the child.

  75. Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band, starring Peter Frampton and the Bee Gees, is on cable right now. Now that’s a movie to get infuriated by.

    When I see a conversation like this, I always try to remember that I loved the Phantom Menace for about a month and a half. You have to let these things gestate a little sometimes; occasionally they grow or shrink with time.

    I think maybe Supes just isn’t for me; it’s not like Bryan Singer betrayed my childhood or anything. I see some of these Superman fans kvetching about what a travesty the film was, and I wonder: what would you have liked to see that you didn’t see? I think when people wait more than fifteen years for a movie, they’re gonna hate it no matter what you do; never give the audience a chance to film and refilm the movie in their heads.

  76. Man, did I have a good time at that first showing of the Phantom Menace. It was a great time. Full disclosure time. I saw that movie 10 times in the theater. By about 3-4, I knew it wasn’t very good, but after that, I just kept seeing it to get to ten. By ten, I was openly laughing at it.

    But I have the DVD’s to all 6 star wars movies, even though I can’t forsee a time when I’ll think, “hey, I’ve got 3 hours to blow, maybe I’ll watch Episode I again.”

    I dunno what that has to do with anything. But I will agree that the end of the movie was just him lifting a big heavy thing. That’s true.

    But to all the complaints about Superman not doing “the right thing” because Lois was pregnant…what’s interesting about a character who does the right thing all the time? Like he says, he never lies, and he was surprised about the son, so clearly he didn’t know.

    It all comes back to long term half-kyrptonian gestation periods. What does Kal El know about Kryptonian biology? Maybe he skipped that crystal. Even so, it’s all out the window when you’re mixing species.

    If everyone else can come up with wacky hyoptheticals, I can too.

    What’s interesting is that we’re on the opposite side of this debate than we were a month ago. Fascinating.

  77. Do you think that he checks the womb of every woman he has sex with right afterwards to check on possible impregnation? Don’t you think he would view that as an invasion of privacy? It’s not like checking Lois’s body to make sure she wasn’t dying in the helicopter.

    It’s been a while, but I’m pretty sure he checked her lungs for signs of damage prior to emphysema setting in, albeit in a previous movie. However, maybe I’m injecting far too much “With great power comes great responsibility” into Superman, who I really don’t know too much about.

    I see your point about being desparate for something Kryptonian, but if he just slept with Lois, I would imagine he should be feeling rather connected with her. Hey, even Luke Cage stuck around to find out Jessica was knocked up 😉

  78. Superman was clearly conflicted, and being emotionally naive while being all powerful is an interesting characteristic. I think the point was that he just didn’t understand this woman, even though he was drawn to her.

    How many of us can’t relate to that?

  79. LOL, touche.

    I see what you guys are saying, but it still doesn’t sit right with me.

  80. I wanted to love this movie but I dont hate it. Ill go see it again but I think Batman Begins is a much better film and I enjoyed X3 better than Superman Returns.

  81. Well, if he’s just fumbling around with a relationship because he’s drawn to her, it’s hard to say that he doesn’t have a connection with anyone. I mean, I know he’s an alien and all, but shit, he flops around emotionally and he knows that he loves Lois. And clearly privacy is not a concern for Superman, considering there’s a 5 minute clip in the movie of him spying on Lois and the kid and shit.

    So, when he goes up into space 20 times so we can see how alone he is, it kind of loses it’s affect. I mean, it’s hard to say that you can’t relate to everyone when you’re in love and had a kid with a human. Maybe it was the responsibility that made him sad.

    Again, the directing was good, but I thought that the plot was really weak and the climax didn’t do it for me. But I don’t have a lot invested in the character, I just wanted to see superpowered action. And this wasn’t the movie for that.

  82. “Again, the directing was good, but I thought that the plot was really weak and the climax didn’t do it for me. But I don’t have a lot invested in the character, I just wanted to see superpowered action. And this wasn’t the movie for that.”

    this is the best quote ive read so far.

  83. Matt Wiggins:

    It’s been a while, but I’m pretty sure he checked her lungs for signs of damage prior to emphysema setting in, albeit in a previous movie. However, maybe I’m injecting far too much “With great power comes great responsibility” into Superman, who I really don’t know too much about.

    Again, I think that checking Lois’s health is different than checking to see if he knocked her up after having sex with her. One is immediate and about her life and her well-being. The other is just him being nosey.

    I see your point about being desparate for something Kryptonian, but if he just slept with Lois, I would imagine he should be feeling rather connected with her. Hey, even Luke Cage stuck around to find out Jessica was knocked up 😉

    I just don’t understand this – is he assuming he impregnated Lois? I don’t assume that there’s a pregnancy everytime I have sex. Lacking x-ray vision, I also don’t hand the girl a pregnancy test afterwards. I do believe I’d be having a lot less sex if I did that.

    Jan:

    And clearly privacy is not a concern for Superman, considering there’s a 5 minute clip in the movie of him spying on Lois and the kid and shit.

    As Ron mentioned in the podcast, there was definitely a creepy stalkeer ex-boyfriendish vibe to that scene, but looking into someone’s house without their permission is still different than looking inside their body. I believe that very strongly.

    I mean, it’s hard to say that you can’t relate to everyone when you’re in love and had a kid with a human. Maybe it was the responsibility that made him sad.

    He didn’t know the kid was his when he was up in space brooding. He didn’t know the kid was his until the very end when he was up in space and smiling in the Christopher Reeve homage.

    But I don’t have a lot invested in the character, I just wanted to see superpowered action. And this wasn’t the movie for that.

    That seems to be the reaction from a lot of the comic book reading audience.

  84. Not just the comic book reading audience but the non comic reading audience as well like my fiance.

  85. I’m going on generalities of reviews, not on individual anecdotal evidence.

    The non-comic book reader reviews in magazines, newspapers vs. the reviews by comic people.

  86. Conor: I honestly don’t see the difference between invading someone’s personal privacy and invading their physical privacy. Well, I see the difference, but I don’t make the distinction because they’re both really wrong.

    And I am kinda suprised that there isn’t a bigger sense of being upset at the lack of continuity, because a lot of time in comics, that is a major source of dislike. But we are willing to give the movies a flier?

    I think they should have started fresh, like they had in Batman. I think it would have made for an better experience.

  87. But we are willing to give the movies a flier?

    I am, but I’m likely not typical.

  88. I honestly don’t see the difference between invading someone’s personal privacy and invading their physical privacy. Well, I see the difference, but I don’t make the distinction because they’re both really wrong.

    I think they are certainly both wrong, but I think that looking INSIDE someone’s BODY is worse.

  89. Why is it worse? Especially if you were there previously. At least you’re looking at something that was a part of you…

    And it’s times like these where you step back and realize that this argument is fruitless. And a little weird.

    So, how about them Yankees?

  90. Please, don’t get me started on the Yankees right now…

    (And yes, a little weird.)

  91. boo Yankees boo.

  92. Superman Returns is starting to lose its steam and I think its because alot of people were dissapointed by the movie.

  93. I don’t understand why people are disappointed, I loved this film, I saw it three times in five days. I just ate it up, and will see it again, I thought it was amazing (perfect? no, but damn good)

  94. Superman Returns is starting to lose its steam and I think its because alot of people were dissapointed by the movie.

    Pirates! Arr!

  95. And it should be noted that while enjoying record box office, the new Pirates movie is not getting great reviews from critics.

    Box office is not related to quality.

  96. Heres a good review of Pirates of the Carribean:

    http://media.revver.com/broadcast/34840/video.mov/17192

  97. But it tells you that one movie is entertaining and the other is introspective. Guess which one has people coming to see it more than once?

  98. Times I’ve seen Superman – 2
    Times I’ve seen Pirates – 0

    Box Office does not equal quality.

  99. Conor you like the introspective non fun movies. You like the looking into space for 10 min at a time. You guys are different. Im just a dumb fanboy who wants to enjoy the whole movie and actually see Superman be Super.

  100. No one said you were, dumb, Darrel.

    All I’m saying is don’t use box office as a barometer for wheher a movie is good or not.

    Is Pirates of the Carribean 2 more popular than Superman Returns? Sure seems to be. And it seems to be more popular than Spider-Man 2, too. Judging by the opening weekend, it’s more popular than any movie ever put to celluloid.

    But so what? That has no barring on its quality, or the quality of any other movie.

  101. I dont care about which movie has more quality production. I just want a good movie that entertains me for 2 hours and that the kids like too.

  102. The Pirates box office makes me feel like I have gone insane or awakened in an alternate universe. “The sequel to the theme park movie made more money in a day than anything ever? And water flows up, and dogs walk people?” Does Not Compute!

  103. I’m more frowning at the fact that it seems, at the moment, that X3 beat Superman Returns, after all the shit Fox gave Singer. Which is the better movie? Superman hands down. In the end quality wins out no question. But with X3 breaking records, and being the top grossing film of the year (So far), where as Superman might not even break even. Just pisses me off, because I just wanted to see Singer bash those Fox bastards at the box office after the shit they gave him. I just hope that this won’t stop a Superman Returns II (or would it be IV now?). And I really hope it doesn’t makes WB go reconsider Singer as director. Because in Hollywood money talks now…sadly.

    COME ON WORD OF MOUTH!!!

  104. Im glad X3 did better than Superman returns because maybe next time Singer will make an actual Superman movie that is worth the price of the ticket.

  105. I wouldn’t worry about Superman Returns not breaking even. These days, U.S. box office is just a small part of a film’s revenue stream. It gets all the press here, but it’s only a fraction of the money a film generates. After U.S. box office, worldwide box office, DVD sales, television liscensing, etc… it will still probably lose money because that’s how Hollywood accounting works. It’s crooked. It really should be investigated.

  106. Regardless of what you thought of the movie, this is going to be an interesting panel at San Diego:

    11:00-12:30 Warner Bros. Pictures Presents � In person, stars Hilary Swank and Anna Sophia Robb, director Stephen Hopkins, and producer Joel Silver of The Reaping, a supernatural thriller in which Hilary plays a world-renowned expert in disproving religious phenomena. But when she investigates a small Louisiana town that is suffering from what appear to be the Biblical plagues, she realizes that science cannot explain what is happening. Plus: Bryan Singer Returns! Please welcome long-time friend of Comic-Con director Bryan Singer to answer your questions about Superman Returns and give you an idea of what’s next. Hall H

  107. I want to go so I can ask why he screwed up so bad and now Pirates are running the box office.

  108. That’s what pirates do – they hijack things!

    Arr.

  109. Most of the things I like don’t entertain kids very much. Most of the adults here seemed to like it though.

  110. Has anyone played the new Superman game they keep advertising (in two-page spreads in Marvel books!) to see if that’s any good? When I hear people saying, “Enough navel-gazing in space; I wanna see Superman being super! Biffing and powing and what-have-you!” I think, “This sounds like a job for the Xbox.”

  111. I have not tried that game, but I WILL be buying THIS when it comes out:

    http://justiceleagueheroes.warnerbros.com/

  112. Hrm, just looks like another X-men Legends to me. When will games developers stop churning out hack and slash RPGs? they are so goddamned boring.

  113. I did not buy X-Men: Legends, mostly because it did not feature Superman or Batman. I agree with you, though, it’s not a perfect format. Hell, I’ve read that you can only have two players at a time! Why? Four at a time! I want to rock the house with Justice League action!

    To me, the closest they’ve come to a perfect superhero game is Spider-Man 2. If I had a game like that for Batman (and his family), I would never leave the apartment.

  114. I do love that Spider-Man 2. I hear that the Ultimate Spider-Man game is a different flavor of the same treat, but I still haven’t put it in the dang console. I don’t know where the time goes.

    I have X-Men: Legends, but I can’t get into it; I’m on the slow end of the RPG learning curve. I did love the trivia component (in Xavier’s mansion, you can earn points by answering X-Men-related trivia questions, giving fanboys a slight edge over the usual gamer).

  115. I have Ultimate Spider-Man. I actually enjoy playing it more than Spider-Man 2 because it actually feels like you’re IN the comic.

    Plus, you get to play as Venom and fight Wolverine!

    I haven’t played a video game in like six months.

  116. By the way, in this podcast, I said Singer worked on Return of the Jedi. I was mistaken, but only slightly. I was thinking of David Fincher. I always get Fincher and Singer mixed up in my head. Fincher was an assistant cameraman on miniature units for ROTJ. My bad.

  117. Well I finally saw this movie in an effort to escape the zillion degree heat. In a word: boring. I didn’t hate Superman Returns, but I wasn’t ever thrilled, blown away, or even deeply engaged by it, either.

    First things first, Brian Singer shoots some pretty pictures. This is by far his most impressive film from a visual standpoint. Individual scenes really felt like a comic come to life.

    The script really lets him down, though. There’s some nice action set pieces but then nothing else really happens for long stretches. And the plot is incredibly flimsy. Too often Singer uses the original movie as a crutch, with little new to enrich his new movie.

    A coworker made a really interesting observation about the movie: all the characters seem to exist in a vacuum; nobody affects anybody else in any meaningful way. And I think he’s right. Often I got the feeling that these actors were all filmed alone and then joined together digitally in post. There was no chemistry between anyone. And this sort of aloof acting works for Kent and Superman, but not for the other human characters.

    I could go on, but I knew I wasn’t really into the movie when somewhere in act three, I found myself straining to remember where in the garage I had parked.

    Oh, and depite the issues I had with it, I still liked it about a thousand times more than I liked X3. Now THAT was a really wretched movie.

  118. this has nothing to do with superman. more to do with the trailer that played before it.

    http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/spiderman3/site/downloads/wallpapers/images/sm3_wp2_1024x768.jpg

  119. DUDE! thanks, seriously, i’ve been looking for that! you’re my hero.
    gimme a big ole man-hug.
    or don’t.

    that’s a creepy image..shame about some of the photoshopping..the tendrils near the mouth, actually the whole mouth area isn’t done very well..but it’s still awesome!

  120. No problem, dude.

    This is a movie thread, sort of. I need to say that I just watched Serenity for the third time and goddamn if that isn’t a fucking great movie.