Superhero chaos at Warner Bros.? Whedon off ‘Wonder Woman’; Goyer off ‘The Flash’

On the heels of the announcement that Joss Whedon is off the Wonder Woman movie, now comes the announcement that David Goyer is no longer involved with The Flash movie.

While the David Goyer news is sure to please Ron, I am saddened. Not only because I like Goyer and feel like he is one comic book fan whose fandom is not a detriment to the work (i.e. Mark Steven Johnson), but also because I feel like the cinematic wave of DC properties that were on the horizon were but a mirage.

Comments

  1. That’s too bad. Most of the news I was hearing made it sound like it was going to be pretty cool, especially with Ryan Reynolds being rumored for the lead. Hopefully, WB isn’t going to mess it up too much. I swear if they have the Flash in some gay, black leather outfit with his powers coming from the sun, we should all e-mail the studio and let them have it!…because I’m just not built for physical violence.

    While it’s sad to hear of Joss Whedon’s movie troubles, I’m glad he’s off of Wonder Woman. To me, the character is a complete snooze, and he could be doing so many other things.

    Hopefully, both him and Goyer will be involved in some other kick ass projects some time soon.

  2. Well, Joss doesn’t feel like that big a deal. I wasn’t particularly excited about a Wonder Woman movie even with him involved. Hopefuly he can get some comic work done and maybe a little Firefly? Please? … please…

    Goyer I’m happy about. Blade Trinity sucked horribly , but I did want to see Ryan Reynolds as The Flash.

  3. Goyer’s dropped some bombs, but he also had a lot to do with Batman Begins, which, for my money, might be my favorite modern superhero movie.

  4. Goyer has had his bomb dropping. But I really wanted to see his Flash, from the things I read from interviews and what not, it sounded like it would kick some serious botay

  5. On IMDB, Goyer’s listed as being attached to 2009 releases of ‘Captain America’ and ‘Thor’.

    I know it’s IMDB, and that most of these pre-production things never happen, but think about it…

  6. I’m glad he’s off of Wonder Woman.
    To me, the character is a complete snooze
    and he could be doing so many other things.

    I was looking foward to the Wonder Woman movie tremendously, when I read the news at comicne.ws I felt like I’d been punched by Donna Troy.

    But I am with you on al of the other things he could be doing, partucularly Captain America, If Goyer could team up with someone like Ed Brubaker or Mark Waid I could see a Cap movie as the greatest thing ever.

  7. That’s just too bad. I was looking forward to that one as well. I stumbled on something way back when about a Green Lantern movie. Is that actually gonna happen? This is the reason why I try not read things like this. They say so and so is doing this and its gonna be out at so and so time and then BAM! nothing happens. I just wait and see a trailer and then I know its actually gonna happen..

  8. I just wait and see a trailer and then I know its actually gonna happen..

    That’s a smarter way to go, but sometimes even that can be deceiving. In 1989 I saw a teaser trailer (and promotional poster in the theater lobby) for Captain America. My little 12 year old brain nearly exploded from excitement.

    Thankfully, that piece of crap never actually made it to the theaters.

  9. Thankfully, that piece of crap never actually made it to the theaters.

    Funny story…My high school Cinema class teacher worked for, god, I don’t remember what company, but some production company. He worked on the Punisher flick with Dolph Lundgren, and showed me the end of the original Fantastic Four movie (so bad, it’s not even listed on IMDB. For Christ’s sake, Mr. Fantastic’s arm was a 20 foot STICK with a foam hand on it!). He had mentioned the Captain America movie once, but I don’t think he worked on it.

    My teacher also worked on Platoon, doing something with international promotion and marketing. Real interesting dude.

  10. My high school english teacher was the guy pushing the broom in Kingpin. Then he went on to do some lighting on Constantine.

  11. I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I heard that the only reason they did that crap Fantastic Four movie in the 90s was to keep the rights. If the studio didn’t do anything with the license, it would revert back to the owner. I haven’t heard a definative answer on it, but it would make sense.

    Oh, and the Captain America movie from the late 90s; The made a few of them, but if it’s the one I’m thinking about it was a B-movie at it’s worst. The only thing they did remotely right was the make-up on the Red Skull.

  12. I meant, late 80s.

  13. I think it was picasso that said: Wait for inspiration to strike you, but let it strike you while you

  14. I don’t know the old Cap and Punisher films were pretty dark for their time. It was pretty gripping seeing Cap duke it out with the Red Skull with buildings blowing up all-around him, and I’ll never forget The Punisher going through the sewers on a motorcycle that was pretty sweet.

    No the films that were really cheesy where the old Justice League and Spidey films. The Martian Manhunter was horrible so was the Green Lantern affects horrible! And the Spidey films were breathtakingly bad, the costume was made out of cloth and if memory serves right I think there were Batman Pow signs as he hit people.

    Compared to those films The Punisher and Cap films weren’t that bad.

    Shame about Wonder Woman though, it didn’t have that much else going for it other than Whedon being on it. I heard that Lizzie McGuire was going to be Wonder Woman Ewwwwwewww!

  15. I didn’t even know there was a Flash movie.

  16. I’m sure this is naive, because every property owned by DC and Marvel is probably in some stage of development (Hypno-Hustler, coming in 2009!) but I had no idea there even was a Flash movie, much less with talent attached.

    Still: I remember reading a magazine I loved called “Comics Scene” in 1988 or ’89 about how they were desperately trying to make a Spider-Man movie with James Cameron, but legal issues kept getting in the way. It would be another 11 or 12 years before that movie would see the light of day. Frustrating, yes, but also sort of worth it. Chin up!

  17. No the films that were really cheesy where the old Justice League and Spidey films. The Martian Manhunter was horrible so was the Green Lantern affects horrible! And the Spidey films were breathtakingly bad, the costume was made out of cloth and if memory serves right I think there were Batman Pow signs as he hit people.

    Those weren’t films, they were TV shows. Some would say that’s semantics, but it’s an important distinction to make in terms of production budgets.

    Make no mistake, the old Captain America film was cheesy. His ears were rubber.

  18. I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I heard that the only reason they did that crap Fantastic Four movie in the 90s was to keep the rights. If the studio didn’t do anything with the license, it would revert back to the owner. I haven’t heard a definative answer on it, but it would make sense
    I think you’re right. When I was reading your post, I had a strong sense that that’s what I was told of the flick.

  19. Those weren’t films, they were TV shows. Some would say that’s semantics, but it’s an important distinction to make in terms of production budgets.
    Make no mistake, the old Captain America film was cheesy. His ears were rubber.
    Ah I didn’t know they were TV shows I used to rent them from an old movie rental store so I thought they were films.

    Well compared to some the other stuff back then I thought the Cap film wasn’t too bad. Like they’re saying here the Fantastic Four film was pretty awful and had no good moments I can remember at all, as opposed to the Cap film which I remember had some pretty dark and more true to the image moments in it.

    Well it doesn’t matter, the quality of comic films starting around Blade and X-Men kicks those old films out of the ballpark! And I’m sure when Captain America comes out 2009 I will probably be thinking

  20. Damn it! Sorry about that I need to take a posting class or something?

  21. Ah I didn’t know they were TV shows I used to rent them from an old movie rental store so I thought they were films.

    I have a bootleg VHS copy of this even though I own no VCRs:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_League_of_America_%281997_film%29

    When I was a kid, I loved catching reruns of this show:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Amazing_Spider-Man_%28TV_series%29

  22. I remember watching that Spidey show on the Sci-Fi channel

  23. That’s them, it’s funny to look back on them now, it’s amazing by leaps and bounds the quality and the interest of comic related TV/movie material has increased. I remember I was like one of the few people to actually rent those shows and films out in a good long while.

    As opposed to now when everybody watch

  24. My god! This looks cool. All I can say is Tarantino/Rodriguez double feature with a chick who has a machine gun for a leg!
    http://www.apple.com/trailers/weinstein/grindhouse/t1_medium.html

  25. that looks really cool

  26. Bah…I want Reynolds as Deadpool, the Merc with a mouth.

  27. That Grindhouse trailer is insane. I know it’s all part of the “camp” of the movie, but how does “machine gun leg” fire her machine gun without her hands? Can’t wait to hear that explanation!

  28. And it gets worse. Way, way worse.

    According to The Hollywood Reporter, Shawn (Night at the Museum) Levy has stepped in as the new director for [The Flash] at Warner Bros. The movie will be his directorial follow-up to Museum.

    More in link.

    http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=100246

  29. Superman Returns is responsible for this. I mean, I loved it, but it didn’t go gangbusters, so clearly the smart thoughtful approach doesn’t work.

    “Let’s do another FF type movie! It didn’t cost shit, and made a ton of cash!”

    “But what about the success of Spider-Man and Batman Begins? What about the failure of Elektra, Catwoman, the Punisher?”

    “I can see it now! We get Owen Wilson and Ben Stiller to play Green Latern and Green Arrow!”

  30. Well, my goodness, Tarantino unleashed is always breathtaking. I’m sure he’s thought through how to fire a machine gun leg with or without hands, and in what proper sexy hot girl pose to an absurd degree, and it will be fabulous. Obviously, Tarantino would rather take a lower budget and make a film free from big studio control, which I think is great for us, the viewers.

    Back to Wonder Woman and DC properties– WB is really dropping the ball. Marvel Entertainment has had the good sense to get talented directors and writers who they were sure loved the original source material, and then just set them free. And the films just keep rolling out while WB is constipated. Even if you hated Blade:Trinity or Daredevil, I bet those movies and others probably made more money than WB has spent on movies “in development” that go nowhere.

    No doubt Whedon is off the project due to studio execs trying to interfere with his creative control. He went to TV to do Buffy to get the creative freedom he didn’t have in the movie business, and even there they told him right from the get-go that the Willow character was way too nerdy and had to be girlie, cute, and dressed in the latest teen fashions. He told them Willow (as he conceived it) was going to be the big break out fan favorite. And who was right? If the investor’s money is so important, why are the bureaucratic idiots the ones handling it?

    What is WB’s problem, and when are they going to deal, so we aren’t all waiting 3+ years for the next Batman or Superman (and Superman was in development for like a decade before Singer came on board, wasn’t it?). Why can’t WB learn more from Marvel Entertainment faster? And the Flash– at this point he may be the world’s fastest man, but this is probably going to be the slowest developing movie… If either it or Wonder Woman came out before 2012 I would be surprised, at this rate.

    sigh. BIG sigh.

  31. Superman Returns is responsible for this. I mean, I loved it, but it didn’t go gangbusters, so clearly the smart thoughtful approach doesn’t work.

    And The Hulk.

    “I can see it now! We get Owen Wilson and Ben Stiller to play Green Latern and Green Arrow!”

    I’m afraid to admit that that movie could be funny.

    And the Flash– at this point he may be the world’s fastest man, but this is probably going to be the slowest developing movie… I

    This latest announcement leads me to believe this movie has been fast tracked. (No pun intended)

  32. I think the problem with the Hulk was getting a good director who knew nothing about effectively using digital effects when digital effects were clearly going to be integral, and that’s where the Hulk landed in comedic territory. And Spiderman 3 will be such a blockbuster it will more than make up for the money the Hulk lost, if it lost any at all. Raised a Maine Yankee, I’d rather place a small bet on many horses than the complete bank on one or two. I think both I as a viewer and Marvel as a company have benefited from that strategy.

    OK, Flash’s been fast tracked — I see on the Revision3 board everyone’s speculating if it will be Barry or Bart or whoever, but do they really think anyone involved with this project has ever come within 100 feet of the source material for the Flash, the comics? The better movies are the ones where they realize the good source material is there, rather than think they come up with their own “keen and ultra new and modern” ideas.

    This will be the true test, not all this “light vs. dark themed” bull crap I see floating around the discussions.

    I have my grave doubts, but I’ll be like you Conor–they’ll still get my money at the theater…damn them all to hell…

  33. “the smart thoughtful approach doesn’t work.”

    More than that, I would say, go to the proven source material, the comics that were loved by the fans (and writer/director), and you can see which movies were successes and which were flops, provided the director/writer was competant outside of just liking comics (like Singer and Raimi).

    Josh, your (ficitional) quotes about how the studio execs discuss these kinds of movies would be funny if it were not really how they probably discuss them… sigh.

  34. I have my grave doubts, but I’ll be like you Conor–they’ll still get my money at the theater…damn them all to hell…

    Not sure what that means…

    Before our show started, if it looked like garbage they didn’t get my money at the theater. I didn’t see Fantastic Four in the theater. I still have not seen Elektra or Catwoman, in any form.

    Even borderline movies I didn’t seen in the theater – movies like Hellboy and The Punisher.

    But now because of the show I feel obligated to see these movies so I can accurately report on them, which is why I’ll go see… *shudder*… Ghost Rider when it comes out.

  35. Elektra, while not good, could’ve been worse

  36. The one example I thought about that made me happy all around was Sin City. Reason one being it stayed 95% of the time true to the comic book. The filming and the actors were spot on, it felt and looked like the book because in the DVD they said that?s how it was intended. Frank Miller was consulted regularly and very involved with it so in that respect it was true to his vision that we like.

    Also scene by scene word by word it was exactly like the book. Direct dialogue was taken from the script so I truly felt that this was a movie adaptation of the comic book I love. Wouldn’t that have been awesome with Dark Phoenix Saga? Or Daredevil? Or the Hulk?

    I think that the answer is if movies of this genre were given the proper treatment in the sense that instead of doing a film about the comic book they should do a comic book that is a film.

    Anyway I am kind of happy that Whedon is not doing the film that way he does more comic books 🙂

  37. Conor, as ever, your iron clad steel dicipline amazes me. The only movies I go to see in the theater are comic book based movies, or movies based on something I have some long standing personal interest in, like Lord of the Rings. That’s about 2-3 movies a year usually, so not a big investment.

    Recently, generous people like iFanboys suffering through the bad ones and then reviewing them online have allowed me to be more choosy. Your efforts are much appreciated; unlike others I totally shared the iFanboys opinion on X-Men 3 and Superman Returns, and loved that particular podcast (which I heard after I saw the movies).

    “Elektra, while not good, could’ve been worse”
    Fred, I agree with that, as in I thought it was an “OK” movie in the most unexcited meaning of the word “OK,” but I never read the Daredevils with Electra by Miller and others who really made that character, so if a fan who did feels ripped off at the box office, they have my sympathies. Daredevil, on the other hand, made me feel more ripped off and had my eyes rolling numerous times. Afleck could have at least TRIED to act blind, was that so hard?

    Still, end of the day, Marvel’s output is probably the reason DC and WB are fast tracking their own properties, not too bad a thing… and if they really screw up these projects, it’ll be the studios who really pay at this point, as expectations of even non comics readers are probably rising with regard to quality of these movies, not true?

    After Hulk, Daredevil and Electra, but then Batman Returns raising the bar up again, studios are probably feeling the pressure more? Not true?

  38. I really agree with wally4media and Conor that too often the studios get away from the source material. It’s one thing for a comics house like Marvel and DC to put a spin on a comic character for those that read them, but it’s a whole other thing when movie studios spin them for the masses.

    While I feel most comic movies are on the decent side of the scale, the turds like Elektra and Catwoman are the kinds of movies that really make us nervous. Couple that with the removal of true comic fans that work in the biz (like Whedon and Goyer) and that just makes it all the worse.

    I’m opptimistic for the future though. I mean, even though Ghost Rider looks like it might suck, we still have 300 and the TMNT movie on the way. For every bad one, there’s bound to be good ones. And other properties that are in developmental turmoil still might finally see the light of day. And there’s always The Dark Knight to look forward to as well.

  39. Frank Miller was consulted regularly and very involved with it

    He was actually the co-director of the movie, not just a consultant.

    Wouldn’t that have been awesome with Dark Phoenix Saga? Or Daredevil? Or the Hulk?

    Honestly? No. Sin City worked because they were self-contained stories with a beginning, a middle and an end. There is too much continuity baggage to do straight up movie adapations of superheroes that the general pubic can understand and enjoy. The Straight-To-DVD animated movies that DC is making sound like they will work because those movies don’t have to make hundreds of millions of dollars to be profitable.

  40. Also scene by scene word by word it was exactly like the book. Direct dialogue was taken from the script so I truly felt that this was a movie adaptation of the comic book I love. Wouldn’t that have been awesome with Dark Phoenix Saga? Or Daredevil? Or the Hulk?

    Sorry, but hearing dialogue from the Dark Phoenix Saga, as much as I loved the comics, would be campy to the extreme and could possibly cause people to be hurt or even killed.

    DC needs to step up,as the tag-team of X-Men and Spider-Man dominated the tandem of Superman and Batman, despite the latter arguably being more popular. Sure, they make a lot of crap, but at least they’re making a go of it and not half-assing it. (The exception being Man-Thing.)

    Goyer is no big loss, since his script for Batman Begins was NOT the strength of the movie and Blade: Trinity was rank. Whedon is the bigger loss, as he’s familiar with female-superheroines and might have been able to find the right tone for the Wonder Woman film, which has the potential to be disasterously corny in the wrong hands. (Wow, long-ass sentence.) I’m afraid Whedon is like Kevin Smith in that he’ll be more famous for his potential than any actual work he’s done. I was hoping that he’d finally get to knock one out of the park!

  41. I’m afraid Whedon is like Kevin Smith in that he’ll be more famous for his potential than any actual work he’s done.

    I’m not even a huge fan of Whedon, but this is fairly dismissive of the work he has done. I think the Firefly and Buffy aren’t considered pre-cursors to a more fruitful career down the road. And you can’t deny the quality of Astonishing X-Men. That work is here and now.

    Other than that, people navel gaze that they’d like to see them on comic-film projects. But if I were them, I’d hate to be pigeonholed as the comic book guy. Whedon had the chance though, and they didn’t like it. You can’t fault him for that. Even Smith, who’s sort of lost me over the years, did do some great work for a short time, on Daredevil and Green Arrow.

  42. Conor-
    First off you are right about Frank Miller, looking at the DVD now I see he was co-director which was probably why it was even better in some aspects compared to the other films.

    I agree with you that Sin Citys small contained stories work well in that respect and is one of the main reasons why people liked it, but one of the other reasons it worked so well, as people here in Europe were saying is that because it has a unique style it is very much close to the books in a way that some of these other films are not.

    I believe that the dialogue from the books and the panels that were direct scenes helpt in many respects to create an atmosphere which I didn’t get in Daredevil or in Hulk, which had their been some level, may have made it a much more enjoyable experience.

    I’m not saying that a straight up movie adaptation with all that continuity would be good because it would be too much, however a little more of it, just a little could go a long way.

  43. Wow, I just looked up the new Flash director’s history. Not good.

    Cheaper By the Dozen is almost a highlight in that crapfest. However, in a move that should make only Ron happy, he did direct 90210 for a time.

  44. “(Wow, long-ass sentence.)”
    I think I’ll always lead the pack on that crime. Few here would disagree.

    “I’m afraid Whedon is like Kevin Smith in that he’ll be more famous for his potential than any actual work he’s done.”

    Hey, if I had produced and written Buffy, Angel and Serenity; or Clerks, Chasing Amy and Dogma, I’d be more than content to rest on my laurels. It’s the constant curse of the good artist to keep exceeding what they’ve done before, as both they and their fans expect that, which is tough, just ask the iFanboys3.

    I think both Whedon and Smith know they’ll never turn out $100 Mil. budget work for the big studios that will satisfy themselves or the really knowing viewers, so they end up happier with smaller budgets but more creative freedom, and they love it, as do we.

    I guess the general consensus is that although a writer/director and even actor doesn’t have to be only a big comics geek, they do have to go to the source material with respect, and the best filmakers crib from the past masterworks of comics. I think X-Men 3 could have been good with either Dark Phoenix, or the cure story, but not both, and half the characters. At that point you need a movie pro like Singer, Raimi, or Nolan to come in and figure out what to keep and what to toss, making tough choice on material they love, and how to put it all together.

    “There is too much continuity baggage to do straight up movie adapations of superheroes that the general pubic can understand and enjoy.”

    I love that you write this so soon after a podcast where you guys were so in awe of Brubaker for dispensing with years and years of continuity baggage in one Daredevil issue, but really you are right Conor–not everyone can write as well as Brubaker.

    I think the general public knows a well written film from a turkey no matter the genre. Even if a turkey is a big blockbuster at first, they fade fast and end up released as DVDs mighty quick, and fade fast from the public memory.

    I can remember watching that old 70s (?) Spiderman TV show (live action) where the webshooter spit out a big rope, and all he did was fight petty crooks acting badly, hack hack hack script. Then I discovered these really wild Japanese live action TV shows, with low budgets but no holds barred, never thinking anything was too bizarre….

    BTW, call me Wally

  45. I love that you write this so soon after a podcast where you guys were so in awe of Brubaker for dispensing with years and years of continuity baggage in one Daredevil issue, but really you are right Conor–not everyone can write as well as Brubaker.

    I am not the general public. No one here is. I’m talking about a movie my brother can enjoy – and that’s a movie not bogged down in comic book history minutiae.

  46. I’m not even a huge fan of Whedon, but this is fairly dismissive of the work he has done.

    Fair enough. I should have specified that I was talking about their film work. I, myself, am a huge fan of Astonishing, Firefly, and Serenity. You have to admit, though, that both Smith’s and Whedon’s popularity with their fanbase and their celebrity beyond that base probably exceeds what they’ve got on their resumes. No disrespect meant toward either.

  47. Ughhh I forgot Catwoman… I downloaded Catwoman (yeah fell of a truck)…and as I was checking it to make sure it was a fine divx copy (and not gay porn)… I was so “disgusted” of what I saw I deleted it inmediately.. Sharon Stone & Hale Berry to the sound of R&B

  48. Fair enough. I should have specified that I was talking about their film work. I, myself, am a huge fan of Astonishing, Firefly, and Serenity. You have to admit, though, that both Smith’s and Whedon’s popularity with their fanbase and their celebrity beyond that base probably exceeds what they’ve got on their resumes. No disrespect meant toward either.

    I think that was a lot of expectations placed on them by the fanbase itself. They had nothing to do with it. Fanboys got all frothy when one of them posted a “what if Kevin Smith directed Captain HeroGuy?” on some random forum, and then when it didn’t happen, they oddly blame Smith.

    To me, the guys living up to the reputations are Sam Raimi and Peter Jackson. They’re just doing the work.

  49. I would love to see a Flash movie. I’ve only read a couple trades (and they were by Johns and with Wally as Flash) and I really liked it. He was light hearted and happy.

    I think that a movie with Ryan Renolds as a happy go lucky character would be fun and very different from most of the brooding that you see in the other comic movies (not that I didn’t like them).

    I think that Spiderman strikes a nice balance of showing a bit of goofiness of the character and the tremendous burden he has with his powers. And Batman was dark. The mood fits the character. And I think that Flash could do that and sucessfully.

  50. F.Y.I…..

    With all this talk of Smith….he and his producer Scott Mosier (the man who’s career I want) just release their own podcast (not to take away from your WONDERFUL show 😉 ) which they call the SModcast. I assume that means Smith + Mosier + Podcast =….you get it. I haven’t listened to it yet, but am looking forward to it, ’cause anytime you put Smith and Mosier in a room together, you get comedy gold.

  51. Ryan Reynolds of five years ago really is the perfect Wally West casting.

  52. But not now? I think he’s still good. I just saw Smokin’ Aces. Apparently he can act a little, in addition to the smartass quips.

  53. He’s probably too old for Wally now.

    Never said he’s not still good. I enjoy his work.

  54. I’d think they’d want someone younger, since they’d try to build a franchise good for 2 or more sequels. Someone in their early twenties. How old is Ryan Gosling? Justin Timberlake?

  55. I’d think they’d want someone younger, since they’d try to build a franchise good for 2 or more sequels.

    Agreed.

    How old is Ryan Gosling? Justin Timberlake?

    Gosling and Timberlake are both 26.

  56. “Fanboys got all frothy when one of them posted a “what if Kevin Smith directed Captain HeroGuy?” on some random forum, and then when it didn’t happen, they oddly blame Smith.”

    100% agree. And I respect both Whedon and Smith for not bending over backwards to stay on the WW and the Green Hornet projects if it means they won’t have full creative control. But I think Smith is now risking becoming just a “personality on display” (but an extremely entertaining one) rather than someone who continues to make good films. Maybe his future as “pop culture commentator” is where he might make his best contribution, and based on your review of Clerks 2, its seems just catering to fanbase expectations is not such a great idea.

    “To me, the guys living up to the reputations are Sam Raimi and Peter Jackson. They’re just doing the work.”

    100% true, but they’re so established in the Big Hollywood industry unlike Whedon and Smith, I bet they can wield their own clout to ensure creative control.

    “I am not the general public. No one here is. I’m talking about a movie my brother can enjoy – and that’s a movie not bogged down in comic book history minutiae.”

    But I think you guys would be the first to give a thumbs down to any movie or book that rates putting comic book history minutiae or keeping to established continuity as mandated by editorial staff more imporant than just creating a compellingly good story. Yes, there are some here that rate continuity as essential, but more so in a “charater protrayal and/or core motivation” sense, which your brother would appreciate emmensely if portrayed well in a movie. We may be not be the general pubic, but I find the contributors here and the iFanboy podcast the reason why I keep coming back, and continually attracts newbies to your podcast.

    Face it Connor, and face it iFanboy contributors, I only blow smoke up the ass of people who deserve it, so take your compliment and suck it up your (OK, I’ll stop there…)

    BTW, now enjoying “The Green Hornet Strikes Again” (1940) and the Phantom 40s serial, far more than the “modern versions” that came later. “The Green Hornet Strikes Again” and the Phantom both have what we’ve discussed here – being faithful to the strenghts of the original radio show/comic strip more important than “adapting” to what supposedly “average” movie goers (if such a thing exists) can supposedly “handle.”

    This was a big component to their success at the time and their continued enjoyablity even today, especially the 1940s Hornet radio and 2nd movie serial — unlike their later TV and film versions which came much later. And Bruce Lee? watch the show and its a classic case of hack writers/directors completely unable to showcase and capture on video what Lee was able to do. They had to draw the camera WAY WAY back because they had no idea of how keep Lee’s amazing fight scenes within the camera frame. Hack hack hack, unlike the original from the 40s, and Key Luke (Kato), for what’s its worth, had a winning smile that could light up and steal a scene… The 60s Hornet had a great car, intro music and gadgets, but without a good scrip, it’s just plain flat and boring.

  57. With Timberlake getting acclaim for his humor on SNL and his dramatic acting in Alpha Dog, in addition to the buzz for his next two serious movies, he’d be a pretty good choice for Flash. His name could bring some recognition for a hero that will be a tough sell for to the public.

  58. 100% true, but they’re so established in the Big Hollywood industry unlike Whedon and Smith, I bet they can wield their own clout to ensure creative control.

    Yeah, but they didn’t start out that way. Whedon and Smith have more clout now than Raimi and Jackson did when they took over these big projects.

  59. Apropo of nothing, both Raimi and Jackson might have clout now, but they both started by making their own cheap-ass movies, and have earned every bit of it. Before LotR or Spider-Man, they were both fringe guys at best.

    And I haven’t seen it, but Alpha Dog is supposed to be fucking horrible, and Timberlake no better.

  60. Actually every review I’ve read says Timberlake was good in Alpha Dog. I think he’s really appealing as an actor.

    Could he be The Flash? Hmmm… I dunno, possibly. I’d certainly let him test for it.

  61. WHOMEVER they cast as the Flash, if the basic production design and costume is shite, if the scrip weak and superficial on character motivation and story, if the supporting cast (which made old Flash comics work well) is not played up, and most importantly, if they spend the bank on clever “super speed SFX” rather than a good compelling story, it will be a major dissappointment.

    My major worry is the studio will think just a major sar and just lots of “Flasy” (forgive the pun) SFX will be enough to make the movie a success — then I will be majorly dissapointed.

  62. Quite honestly, the only person they should think about casting is John Wesley Shipp.

  63. I thought you didn’t read reviews? Or is that only when they suit your purpose?!

    You know what, I think you love Justin Timberlake. There. I’ve said it.

  64. I only read reviews of movies that I don’t intend on seeing any time soon.

  65. Or movies I’ve already seen.

  66. I was bummed by both the announcements. DC’s movies have been pretty awesome (ignoring Constantine) and I’ve been impressed with the thought and care they’ve put into them. With the announcement that the Night at the Museum guy is doing the Flash now and Wonder Woman is dead in the water, sooo that leaves us with what as far as new properties? Watchmen? Anything else out there even being seriously discussed?

  67. Conor and I both love JT. His appeal is hard to deny. God knows I’ve tried.

    What Flash has over Superman and Batman is that there’s a big potential for humor. What kept Superman Returns from blowing the lid off the box office (besides a plot borrowed from Superman 1978) is the dark tone. Same with Batman. If you can make people laugh as well as give them some nice action scenes, they’ll want to go see it. I think this is why FF worked, despite its weaknesses. The film made people laugh, word-of-mouth was good, and it did well. I know technically Batman Returns was a much much better film, but damned if I didn’t have more fun watching FF. I got the same vibe from the people who were in the theater with me; they really seemed to enjoy it. I think DC needs to lighten up a bit. That’s why I was disappointed to see Whedon get the boot.

  68. And I haven’t seen it, but Alpha Dog is supposed to be fucking horrible, and Timberlake no better.

    Like Conor said, the word is that Timberlake was the only good thing in Alpha Dog.

    Hmm, it seems I have a Geoff Johns/Green Lantern type man-crush on Timberlake. He had me at “Dick In a Box”.

  69. He had me at “Dick In a Box”.

    Regardless of this priceless comedy gem, I still think Timberlake would be a terrible choice for a comic movie. I think he would turn off the serious dorks and drag 13 year old girls who would giggle, gaggle, and text message through the entire movie. Let’s not forget: He’s a popular MUSIC artist, and regardless of his good/bad reviews of Alpha Dog, I don’t think he’s got the brevity to pull off The Flash or anyone else.

    It’s like saying Britney Spears should do Wonder Woman because some people thought she was good in Crossroads.

  70. It’s like saying Britney Spears should do Wonder Woman because some people thought she was good in Crossroads.

    It’s actually not like that at all.

  71. Crossroads was easily the worst movie of all time

    no really it was
    never ahve I felt such shame

  72. He’s a popular MUSIC artist, and regardless of his good/bad reviews of Alpha Dog, I don’t think he’s got the brevity to pull off The Flash or anyone else.

    Musicians aren’t allowed to act? No offense to anyone, but you don’t need brevity to be in a comic movie, especially lighter fare like the Flash.

    He got cheers from the crowd at the press conference at Sundance for his performance in his upoming Black Snake Moan.

    What about that guy who played Johnny Storm in FF? He was the best thing about that movie.

  73. Crossroads was a great movie. Ralp Machio playing the geetarr, sellin his soul waaaay before jack black.

  74. I don’t think you guys mean to be using “brevity”, do you?

  75. Well it wouldn’t be my choice for a word to describe what a Flash movie needs. Maybe if he gives a speech in it or something…

  76. What about Whedon on X4?

  77. X4? Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. They still need to do X3!

  78. I wasn’t necessarily referring to Timberlake only being in The Flash…I just meant with acting in general. I guess I’m just one of those people who feel that if you’re famous, you shouldn’t go poking your nose around in other areas. I can’t think of too many people who’ve been successful doing two different things (movie/music, sports/music, etc.) Most of the time it’s just annoying.

    I like the idea of Chris Evans being the Flash. I don’t think the FF movies are popular enough that he would have to live off some kind of stigma or something.

  79. Jeff Bridges joins cast of IronMan
    http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=100409

  80. Pardon, I’m behind the curve, but I just found out who’ll play Stark himself. Yeah, I can see that definitely. And if they are going to play the substance abuse angle, Downey won’t have to “act” like a substance abuser… Stark and Downey, in and out of rehab and in again and still they keep going like the energizer bunny. Bridges is good… but,

    It basically comes down to Favreau, the director. Competant and talented, I think, but has he learned any lessons after being involved in Daredevil?

    What I’m extremely leery of is the constant need to make “the origin story” such a huge part of the first film. I liked that “Batman Begins” made it the pivot of almost the entire movie and developed it into some interesting angles, many of them not exactly canon, but with others its just the obligatory “let’s show why he’s like this as fast as possible first and then move on to the real action.” Whatever. Just jump in, movie viewers know what they’re getting into, just spring out in mask and jump right in from the start. People don’t give a hoot about the original 60s origin, just jump in. Do fans really even give a hoot about the original Iron Man origin?

    What I liked about “The Ultimates” (comic) is that they didn’t waste too much time on this or that origin at the very start, they just jumped right in and saved the mystery reveals for later, parsed out evenly throughout the story. That I like. And Iron Man in “The Ultimates” was just suddenly this rich genius industrialist guy and look–he’s got a suit that’s in prototype stage that he’s fixated on, to make himself a hero. Much better.

    Oh well. Sigh.

  81. The cast on this is getting crazy

    Robert Downey Jr
    Terrence Howard
    Gwyneth Paltrow
    Jeff Bridges

  82. What I’m extremely leery of is the constant need to make “the origin story” such a huge part of the first film. I liked that “Batman Begins” made it the pivot of almost the entire movie and developed it into some interesting angles, many of them not exactly canon, but with others its just the obligatory “let’s show why he’s like this as fast as possible first and then move on to the real action.” Whatever. Just jump in, movie viewers know what they’re getting into, just spring out in mask and jump right in from the start. People don’t give a hoot about the original 60s origin, just jump in. Do fans really even give a hoot about the original Iron Man origin?

    What I liked about “The Ultimates” (comic) is that they didn’t waste too much time on this or that origin at the very start, they just jumped right in and saved the mystery reveals for later, parsed out evenly throughout the story. That I like. And Iron Man in “The Ultimates” was just suddenly this rich genius industrialist guy and look–he’s got a suit that’s in prototype stage that he’s fixated on, to make himself a hero. Much better.

    I agree on all points. The first 45 minutes of Batman Begins dragged and whenever I rewatched the movie I always skipped that part. And I never skip! For me at least, the origin is the least interesting part of a hero’s tale.

    The Cap, Iron Man, and Wasp in the Ultimates universe is why I love the book so much. They’re much more interesting than their 616 counterparts.

  83. Totally, Horatio. This is what I fear about someone like Favreau–I believe they probably are authentic comics fans, but in the sense that they read them as kids, loved them, and haven’t been back much since.

    The Cap “freeze-unfreeze” thing was key to The Ultimates, but it always served throughout the story from start to finish as a point of view to be played off against the uber post modernity of the Ultimates story he woke up in. Someone who loved comics back in the day and hasn’t been back since, I think, is less likely to get that…

    What’s facinating is as I watch the old movie serials, the need to “explain why the guy puts on a mask” is so much more present today. Back in the day, they just jumped into the story and rocked and rolled on to the next cliffhanger. If the concept of the character was cool, that was all you needed, no explanation as to why the mask. And they were generally MUCH more into the idea of people never knowing who it was that wore the mask, back when secret identities had meaning.

    Back when secret identities had meanings — so why do you wear a mask, Batman? “Because I’m an unauthorized vigilante operating outside the law. Duh.”

  84. And I haven’t seen it, but Alpha Dog is supposed to be fucking horrible, and Timberlake no better.

    Alpha Dog was pretty good, not great, but good for a January release that is usually filled with crap. And Timberlake works incredibly well within the context of the movie. I was watching it believing in his character, not saying, “Oh man, it’s Justin Timberlake.”

    As for him handling the Flash? Maybe, I guess, but there’s far more talented and qualified people for the role out there.