NOTE: Let’s be mindful of all the new viewers participating in this conversation and try not to spoil plot points taking place deep into the run of the comic series. Mild speculation is fine and encouraged, as well as talking about things that have happened in the comic up until the point they are at in the show, but don’t get too explicit with regard to future surprises. They will be deleted. Thanks!
“Killer Within”
Or
“I’m Glad I Watch This Show After Dinner”
Last week, we took our leave of Rick and the gang to get acquainted with Andrea, Michonne, The Governor and the good people of Woodbury, a town whose name sounds straight out of the The Twilight Zone. Oh yeah, and Merle is back.
This week, we return to the prison where an anonymous figure cuts open a bunch of the chains that are holding some of the prison gates closed and is luring zombies to the prison with a trail of freshly killed deer meat. That’s… fucked up. And the prison is also where Rick and the gang are starting to settle into their new home rather nicely. The main yard area is getting cleared of bodies, vehicles are being inventoried, and Glen and Maggie are having a lot of sex in the guard tower. It’s like paradise! Ah, but it cannot last. The two convicts that Rick let live two weeks ago have left their section of the prison and have shown up asking if they can, you know, move in with Rick and his people. It seems that living with their dead friends in a cellblock with porous fences is really just no fun. They make their case quite convincingly but Rick and Darryl are having none of it. T-Dogg, though, thinks it might not be so bad to bring some new able-bodied people into the group. The rest of the group is wary. They’re strangers. They’re criminals. T-Dogg points out that he and Rick and the rest of their group have probably killed more people than the convicts. But it’s no matter: Rick is resolute in his decision.
In Woodbury, Michonne investigates the vehicles of the dead soldiers that The Governor and his people brought back to camp last week. We know that he murdered them in cold-blood and it seems as if Michonne is starting to suspect it as well, what with the bullet holes and fresh blood. The Governor interrupts her snooping and tries to use flattery and peons to heroism and survival to placate her. Michonne’s not having any of it. Not even flattery from Foghorn Leghorn Liam Neeson can shake her feeling that shit is not right in Woodbury.
T-Dogg is not letting this convict thing go. He seems to be the only one who sees the potential for humanity in other humans. Like a sycophantic Joey Bishop, one of the convicts offers to tune up Darryl’s bike because it’s, well, super loud but Darryl blows him off. The convicts are locked back up in their section of the prison. Meanwhile, Herschel is sick and tired of looking at the ceiling of his cell—he never would have lasted in prison!—and decides it’s time to stretch his legs.
Michonne’s got a plan for her and Andrea to travel via the coast. At least that’s one direction they wouldn’t have to worry about zombies. Clearly, Michonne has not considered the possibility of Mer-Zombies. Andrea doesn’t want to leave Woodbury. She likes the security of the community and she and The Governor have a kind of low level flirty thing going on. She thinks that Michonne is just paranoid about their being something off about everything despite the fact that it’s been Michonne’s paranoia and caution that has kept them alive for 8 months.
While Glen makes a food drop and gives the convicts enough to eat for a week, Rick, Glen, Maggie, T-Dogg, Darryl, and Carol continue to work on securing the perimeter of the prison. Rick, Glen, and Daryl are out on the perimeter in their own fenced off section of the yard gathering firewood and Glen doesn’t want to risk going beyond the fences to dispose of and burn the zombie corpses but Rick doesn’t want to plant corn in zombie-infused soil. Which, I totally get. Suddenly, Hershel makes his triumphant appearance on the prison yard, along with his helpers Lori, Carl, and his young daughter whose name I keep forgetting. Everyone is all smiles and happy to see Hershel up on his feet which means that some shit is going to go down any sec—and there it is! A horde of zombies has made its way into the prison! Chaos! Gunplay! Carl, Maggie, Carol, Lori, and T-Dogg start shooting at the zombies as Rick, Glen, and Darryl run desperately through the maze of fences and locked doors to come help. Most of the group escapes into the prison while T-Dogg and Carol hang back to hold off the zombies and try to lock the gates. And then it happens. Oh, poor T-Dogg. We did not know you well but we liked you. In the act of locking up one of the gates he is descended upon from behind and bitten on the shoulder by a zombie. He doesn’t give up though, and with a gaping wound finishes locking the gate, shoots the zombie who bit him, and escapes with Carol into the prison.
Back at Woodbury, Andrea gives Merle a map with the location of Hershel’s farm marked on it. Merle thanks her by acting crude in that charming way that only Merle can. When it becomes clear that his advances are not going to lead to sex, Merle tries to relate to Andrea: they were both abandoned by Rick and the gang, so shouldn’t she stay in Woodbury and shouldn’t they be buddies? Andrea is still clearly conflicted about leaving and asks Merle, who is certainly the best person to ask this question, if The Governor is a good person. Merle confirms that yes, yes he is.
Rick, Glen, and Darryl finally make it to the main yard and go about killing as many zombies as they can. Hershel and his daughter, safe behind a locked gate, inform Rick that everyone else appears to have made it out safely, save for T-Dogg and his bite. Glen checks the fences and informs Rick that the gates were not merely left open, the chains were cut. Rick immediately suspects the two convicts who have popped up to see that all the commotion is about. Rick doesn’t have a chance to interrogate them, however, because suddenly the prison siren begins to sound which is like ringing the sound dinner bell for area zombies who immediately being flocking towards the sound. Rick and Glen start to shoot out as many of the sirens as they can but they can’t get them all. Despite the fact that they are standing right there with them and clearly not sounding the sirens, Rick wants to know how the convicts are doing this. The convicts offer to help stop the noise as one of them briefly worked in the control room where the sounds would originate.
T-Dogg stumbles through the darkened (and now loud with sirens) prison corridors with Carol tearfully at his side. She wants desperately to save him but he knows his fate and is not having it. Further ahead, Lori, Maggie, and Carl have to stop because Lori is having pregnancy-related pain. They don’ have time to figure out what is wrong with Lori (a lot) because suddenly zombie pour into the corridor! With Carl leading the way, they beat a retreat through a door that leads down to the bowls of the prison and then Chris Hardwick pops up on screen and tells us that Lori’s baby is coming! Spoilers, Hardwick!
It seems that in addition to murder and collecting heads , The Governor likes to blow off steam by hitting golf balls at zombies. Which, I have to admit, is kind of funny. Merle asks The Governor’s permission to take a small team to look for Hershel’s farm and, by extension, his brother Darryl. The Governor vetoes the proposal as being too risky and because Merle is too important to Woodbury to lose. Merle makes a pouty face so The Governor tells Merle that if he can gather more intelligence on the farm then he’ll lead a team there himself.
Rick is pissed! He can’t find Lori, that siren is really starting to get on his nerves, and someone is fucking with them.
Down in the maintenance area, Lori announces that the baby is coming. (Haaardwick!) Maggie jumps right into action because she lived on a farm because I assume that people who live on farms deliver babies every week. Maggie tells Carl that he’s going to have to help deliver his brother or sister and Carl doesn’t look too into it. I’m right there with you, kid. I’ve seen The Miracle of Life. Plus, that’s your mom. Curses! Maggie says that this is her first time delivering a baby and now I have to reevaluate everything I thought I knew about farms. While I do this, Lori starts pushing and the baby starts coming. Suddenly, Maggie yells for Lori to stop pushing and we see that there is a lot of blood on Maggie’s hands.
Not only are the sirens still blaring, but the corridor that T-Dogg and Carol find themselves in features flickering lights. Oh, and zombies. Carol raises her gun to shoot but is out of ammo. In a final act of heroism, T-Dogg shoves Carol aside and runs into the pack of zombies to buy time for Carol to escape.
The Governor and Andrea sit down for a drink and a chat. He says he’s sorry to see her leave Woodbury but he also subtly probes her for information while they chat about lost families. Andrea is still clearly not sold on leaving with Michonne, and is just looking for an excuse to stay, but The Governor doesn’t give her one so she gets up to leave. Before she does, The Governor tells her that she’s always welcome back in the town and that his real name is Phillip, which is information that he promised that he would never reveal earlier in the episode.
Still being chased by zombies, Rick, Darryl and one of the convicts make it to the control room. While Darryl desperately tries to hold the door at bay, Rick and the convict start shutting down the various sirens. Just as they do, Rick is attacked by another convict, the one who Rick locked out of the prison and left for dead with a pack of zombies in the second episode. A fight breaks out, and Rick loses his gun. It’s picked up by the helpful convict (okay, so, I need to learn these guys’ names) and he holds the gun on Rick and the bad convict. Who will he shoot? He shoots the bad convict and hands the gun back to Rick who gives him the grim alpha male nod which means, “I respect you now.”
The birth is not going well. It seems that Hershel’s prediction that Lori was going to need a c-section delivery is coming true. Maggie is not so comfortable with cutting open Lori’s abdomen with Carl’s knife in the middle of this dark and dingy basement but what can she do? Lori could die but if Lori doesn’t deliver the baby she will die anyway. (Hey, at least the sirens stopped!)
It would seem that The Governor’s creepy southern fried charm has worked as Andrea now informs Michonne that she will in fact not be leaving Woodbury right now. Michonne is, understandably, not okay with this development. Andrea tells Michonne that she wants to hang around for just a few more days.
Back in the worst operating theater ever, Lori points Maggie to her old c-section scar. It’s a handy-dandy guide to follow! Sensing that she is probably not going to survive, Lori tells Carl that he’s going to have to take care of Rick and that he should always try to do what’s right. She doesn’t want the world to spoil him. (Newsflash: We’re waaaay past that, Lori.) Lori then tells Maggie (without telling her) not to forget that she’ll have to kill her after she goes zombie. And then… and then it just gets awful and bloody and suffice to say the baby gets delivered. Shirking her zombie duties, Maggie tries to get Carl to leave with her and the baby. Carl, who is well on his way to being a sociopath, informs Maggie that he has to put a bullet in his mom first. He thinks back to the inspirational talk that he had with his dad back at the farm and shoots his mom in the head.
Rick, Darryl, Glen, and the two convicts are reunited in the hallway only to discover a couple of zombies feeding on a corpse. They find Carol’s headscarf next to the corpse which leads them to believe that it’s her body (when it could be T-Dogg’s). They make their way back out to the yard and inform Hershel that T-Dogg and Carol are both dead. Rick starts to rally the troops to find the others but he is silenced by the cries of his new baby who Maggie carries out into the yard with Carl at her side. Rick takes in the scene—the baby, Carl and Maggie bloodied, Carl and Maggie crying—and as he realizes that his wife Lori is dead he collapses in a heap of tears and anguished screams.
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When T-Dog got bit, I thought to myself “Well, I guess that makes sense. We haven’t lost a main in some time and he hasn’t had much characterization recently, so I guess his ticket is punched.” And I liked that he went out saving Carol (?). But losing Lori…I didn’t realize that she was dead until Carl said he had to shoot her. And then I got real sad, especially at Rick’s reaction.
Big, sad episode. Reminds me (and the survivors) to never get complacent. Looking forward to the next time.
Also, I too liked seeing the Gov hit walkers with golf balls. Even in the zombie apocalypse, you’ve gotta work on your drive.
We didn’t see Carl shoot her… She’ll be back and all about eating the flesh.
The reaction from Rick was some powerful acting. When he looked at Carl while he was crying, and Carl didn’t respond,,Made me tear up-Another amazing episode this season.
Carl did have tears streaming down his face even if his expression was frozen. Maybe Rick didn’t see. And he was crying in the room when ‘it’ was happening.
Andrew Lincoln was fantastic in this episode. Honestly, I was waiting/hoping for Lori to die and the death wasn’t making me sad until Lincoln’s heart ripping reaction. The dude is good.
Rick’s reaction was intense. When he looked at Carl and just said “awww no…” you could tell that he knew Carl had shot Lori and probably made him even more sad, not just about Lori, but how Carl is going to be so screwed up from all of this. Really intense and powerful stuff. Props to Andrew Lincoln for that heart wrenching performance.
Well, looks like I won’t be sleeping tonight. Or for a month.
Holy cow that was intense! Tis show isn’t dawdling over things this season at all. I think I stared at the ceiling last night in bed for at least an hour. The show has finally hit with the emotional power of the book. Can not wait to see next weeks show….
T-DOGGGG!!!!!!! NOOOOOO
He was on Talking Dead last night and was holding back tears the whole time. Cool guy, too bad the writers didn’t give him a little more character development on the show…….
Haha, as soon as T-Dogg spoke up and gave his opinion about something in the group I turn to my girlfriend and was like “Dammit! T-Doggs gonna die”.
This episode was intense. Really sad about T-Dog…..but i guess since they gave him more than 3 lines this ep they were setting it all up! So we don’t really know what happened to Carol do we? We saw her go out that door but that was it?
After the Baby sequence my wife was like “oook i’m not watching this show anymore” and she was serious. Definitely made me queasy as well, but they lost a viewer in my household.
The Governor stuff is just OK so far, but i’m sure that storyline will pick up more.
That was pretty much my thought, too. T-Dog is talking too much…they’re gonna kill him, aren’t they?
I never liked Lori in the show, probably down to Sarah Wayne Callies acting or lack there of. I couldn’t stand her in Prison Break either. But the performances of the rest of the cast were so powerful, it was very emotional.
This season has been spectacular. I stopped recommending the show sometime during season two, but I have begun enthusiastically recommending it again.
This was a fucking rollercoaster! Excellent episode.
It took 2+ seasons, but the show finally drew a genuine reponse from me. I have a soft spot for good mother/son scenes (what loving son doesn’t?), and I don’t mind saying that there was a lump in my throat during the quick embrace between Carl and Lori. It’s ironic and rather sad that the only time I’ve given a shit about TV Lori was in her last few moments, but I thought Callies did a wonderful job. Side note: whoever does the sound work for this show deserves a goddamn Emmy for that pelvic crunch during the attempt at standing birth. Me and two of my friends cringed, shouted, and looked away when we heard that. Also, Pelvic Crunch would be an terrific band name.
The pacing of the action was 150mph for the majority of the episode, and it was as close to edge-of-your-seat as this show has ever been. My buddy and I were yelling “GO!” at the TV when Rick and Glen were scrambling to catch up to the others. Can’t say I’ll miss T-Dogg. I think he shot more walkers than he spoke words this season, and he was never much more than a watered-down version of the character he should’ve been, but he went out like a champ. I’m sure Chemo Carol is still alive and shaving her head somewhere, and I hope they don’t pull another Sofia and have her gurgle out of the shadows down the line.
The Woodbury stuff was the weakest part of this ep, but it served as a nice respite from the madness. Still not sure how I feel about Suave Gov in place of Greasey Gov, but it has serious potential. I am, however, sure sure about my feelings towards TV Andrea, and they are as follows: I hate her. I’ve had a crush on Laurie Holden since her days as Maria Greeknameopolous on The X-Files, I think she’s a decent actress and it’s not her performance that bothers me. Again, it’s my inability to seperate this from the source material. I’ve tried, failed, and accepted that it will never change when it comes to some of the characterizations. I’m really liking the show this season, and I certainly enjoy some of the curve balls, but Andrea is one of my favorite characters from the book, and this isn’t even in the same ballpark. The choice to pair Andrea up with Michonne for the Woodbury ordeal still strikes me as odd, and it’s difficult watching her flirt and fall for this clearly shady illusion. The only thing I can think of is that she (in place of someone else) will be the brunt of the Governor’s sick rage, and that will serve to mold her into a more hardened soldier. Even then, I’m not sure how I feel about it. But I’m looking forward to finding out.
Really dug this episode. This season decapitates the previous two with a samurai sword, and I’m eagerly awaiting next week’s episode. Between this and Boardwalk Empire, it was an intense night of television for me. Good stuff.
I’m gonna wrap up this longwinded amateur review with two quick thoughts:
– Every time Chris Hardwick pops up on the screen and ruins the suspense of the commercial cliffhanger moment with some comment that only he thinks is funny or entertaining, I wish I had that boxing glove mechanism that Nicholson’s Joker uses to destroy his television. I don’t know him personally, but that guy really rubs me the wrong way.
– It took a week, but we got a “Ya follow me?”!! It’s really sad how happy that made me.
I agree with a ton of what you said in your mini-review.
As far as Hardwick/Talking Dead promos are concerned, they mentioned that on Talking Dead this week and he kind of apologized but he has no control over any of that. I do agree that they’re badly timed but I’d prefer them there than TBS style overlays.
I’m glad someone else mentioned “Ya follow me?” I concur, I was thrilled when I heard it, though I thought they were going to make ol’ handlebars the other convict from the comics. Still, very happy someone finally said it!
Is no one else bothered by the lack of logic and consistency in these characters? Maybe I just overthink things like this.
I see where you’re coming from, but I don’t think it’s as detrimental as it has been in the previous two seasons.
The occasional lack of logic doesn’t bother me because it’s a horror/survival show. There has to be a certain learning curve in this genre because without it, there would be fewer obstacles and sticky situations to watch the characters work around. I’m willing to forgive certain nitpicks (Such as bashing a walker’s head with your eyes and mouth wide open. Cover your mouth!) because the genre allows it.
When it comes to characterizations, the only thing that drives me nuts is some of the female behavior. With the exception of Michonne, I think many of the women are portrayed as incredibly weak bordering on stupid. I don’t want to jump to conclusions and assume that most of the writing team are males, but it wouldn’t surprise me. In the comic, Kirkman displays a decent understanding of the female psyche (as much as any modern man can posses anyway 🙂 ), and I think the show lacks that realistic punch at times. If we’re using the book as a (loose) framework, most of the women should have stopped crying and started kicking ass by now. By the time they hit the prison, Lori’s typcial domestic whining has turned into rational complaints/concerns, and Andrea is more courageous and competent with firearms than most of the men. Granted, Andrea hasn’t even seen the prison in the show, but the flirting and naivete she’s showing at Woodbury is almost insulting. I appreciate the fact that the ladies in the show serve to bring some much needed tenderness and domesticity to the group, but that shouldn’t be their only purpose. I’d like to see the gals slap the guys around once in a while, is what I’m saying.
This is just my opinion as a 29 single dude. Any and all iFangirl viewers are more than welcome to step up and put me in my place.
Some of the things I was referring to were cover by you there, but the whole delivery of the baby bordered on absurd. Lori goes from walking around to “OMG the baby’s coming now! And this delivery must be done by you at this second right where we are, and just assume I’m dead as soon as it’s done. Forget that we chopped Herschel’s leg off, and now he’s fine.” Also, who does the Governor kill and let live? What’s his criteria? I guess you can say he keeps the vulnerable and kills anyone with supplies or anyone that may pose a threat to his authority, but it just seems like he’d want trained military protecting his town.
“I guess you can say he keeps the vulnerable and kills anyone with supplies or anyone that may pose a threat to his authority”
I’d say that covers it. At least, it’s about as logical a reason we can expect to rationalize the actions of a fictional psychopath. The only other answer that I can offer is that it was a ham-fisted way to show viewers that he was a bad dude. In my opinion, those first victims should’ve been a small group of civilian survivors (much like Rick’s group) with a decent stash of weaopons and supplies. Would’ve made it a tad more believable.
He kills those who he thinks will be a threat to his control over the populace. The Governor doesn’t like anyone who might question his authority. Young national guardsmen might be a little cocky or they might have a sergeant with them for all he knows. He’s not one to take chances.
I can take that, but man, the delivery bothered me to no end. Any thoughts? Maybe she had just given up and took it as a chance to die?
Hollywood never gets delivery right, because watching people wait around for a baby in a hospital for 15 or 20 hours is boring, even when you’re the one waiting. I would just chalk this one up to standard issue dramatizing.
re: delivery.
Hershel had warned Lori that another C-section may be neccessary, so when she cracked her pelvis and started bleeding out the hooha, I think she knew what had to be done. They were cornered in a room by walkers, and the baby was coming whether they got out or not. I interpretted as the classic (if not overdone) mother-choosing-the-baby’s-life-over-her-own situation. I was actually surprised at how little it bothered me.
@Roi: I’m with ya, but the guardsmen still should’ve put up more of a fight, if not triumphed completely. But that was last week, so who really cares at this point. 🙂
I think Lori took a look around. C-Section is an actual surgery. They didn’t even have a drop of clean water around let alone a clean environment. (they cut her open with a zombie killing knife!) and had nothing to actually sew her back up with afterwards. People die from infections after surgery in sterile environments and that prison was a literal cesspool. She knew the score, and had probably mentally prepared herself for this.
You can’t spend TOO much time harping on realism…cause if you did everyone on this show would have died from Dysentery or a Staph Infection a few episodes into season 1. =p
I’m not sure how old Hershel’s younger daughter is, but she’s clearly too old for Carl and it’s a little weird every time she checks him out. Though I guess in an apocalypse it’s any port in a storm.
Great episode. We should have known T-Dogg was going to eat it when he started suggesting that maybe they shouldn’t be such assholes to somebody – Dale went out the same way!
ThE only way they can make “TV Carl” any cooler would be to have him scoring some tail…
It’s a little like Amidala and Anakin… (sorry to bring up the prequels!)
Dammit, r3v!! 🙂
I agree with flakbait, though. The potential romance between the two seems really forced, and every time I’m reminded of it it makes me uncomfortable. If you wanted Carl to hold hands with someone, ya shouldn’t have killed off Sophia. Ya can’t have your cake and eat it too.
They did address this at the NYCC panel. According to the producers and actors, Carl is supposed to be 13 in this season, and maggies sister just turned 17. He’s hitting on the senior girl!! Go Carl!
I think I’m reading the Carl/Beth dynamic a little differently. He’s definitely got a crush on her, but I’m not so sure she’s reciprocating in a romantic way. It’s hard to tell because it’s all been pretty subtle so far, but sometimes people just smile at other people.
In other words, I can definitely see this playing out as Beth being nice to Carl because she’s a nice person, and Carl getting the wrong idea. Which is a situation I bet about 95% of the target demo for this show can relate to. 😉
They basically killed off all the lamest characters this episode. I daresay I love this show again.
TV Governor is Lame.
Maybe they’re saving the psycho for “Negan” later. Those closeups of his face when he’s trying to face Michonne’s insinuations were the dealbreaker for me. He had that fluttery under-eye muscle twitch that made him seem Weak.
Governor should not be making excuses for nothin’ to Michonne or nobody. Governor should be kicking ass from word go, NOT stopping, with your 200 hundred dollars already in his pocket.
“Governor should be kicking ass from word go”
Whose side are you on, man?
I love the slow progression of revealing how screwed up The Governor. It works great on a week-to-week build-up.
I tend to agree on the slow build up. He’s not a crazed tribal warlord, He’s a calculated psychopath and manipulator. His whole MO is to lead by having people believe in what he is selling. He’s made himself THE LEADER who cannot be replaced and is infallible. When you’re only asset is fear and violence, it doesn’t take long till someone grows a pair and shoots you in the back.
SPOILER BUMP
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OK, hope that worked. I was totally surprised by what happened to who, but it seemed a little contrived. Why else have this happen to Lori other than to try and redeem her in the viewers’ eyes? I mean, she was one of the most hated characters on TV. Having her give her life for her child is an easy way to win people over to her (and also a trope!). Also, as another poster wrote, it seemed like they could have waited a little longer to do the C-section.
RIP T-Dog. I’ll pour one out for you.
Where’s Carol? All they found was her turban…
Contrived?? It was shocking, at least for me. I thought she was the second lead on the series, and that we’d following her, Rick, and Carl throughout all the seasons. My wife and I were like, “wait a minute, did she just die??” and than BLAM, Carl’s gun goes off too and we were honestly stunned and amazed. Contrived would have been her surviving and being the hero for birthing a baby and saving the old man. Nope.
This show is so great, no one’s safe, and I can’t believe the rate at which popular and interesting characters that seemed to have ongoing plot use suddenly are done.
Kirkman is a genius.
Kenny, I miss turtle boy.
Urthona, did you read the books? Just wondered, because I did and sometimes I have a hard time when the show deviates so wildly from the books. Of course, Lori wasn’t a manipulating bitch in the comics either!
What was shocking to me was that Carl was the one who pulled the trigger. That kid is gonna be messed up.
@Conor: You often tack on a little paragraph of your opinions on the episode with your recaps. Out of curiosity, what were your thoughts on this one?
Yeah, I meant to do that this time but i was so emotionally drained that I forgot. I’m crushed with work at the moment so I’ll have to elaborate later but for now I’ll just say: I loved it.
Awesome.
Anyone else make a connection between T-Dog’s and Dale’s deaths? Last season Dale’s death came after he made an impassioned plea for morality regarding that kid they took hostage that everyone else wanted to kill. This time T-Dog dies after making an argument (far less passionate than Dale’s) that they should think about trusting the inmates or at least treat them more humanely.
oh that’s interesting. As if the world is killing off their humanity piece by piece.
Yeah, it was the first thing that came to mind when he died. @wallythegreenmonster, I would agree with that idea with the exception of Dale’s death the writing always dismisses the ensemble cast through the episodes for any real impact. T- dog had become a red shirt through the majority of the episodes since season 2. It seemed like they were going in a good direction with Lori and Rick, in terms of some character development, but they killed her off, just as it was starting to get interesting.
They really have to do a lot of good character building with rest of the cast to make it interesting in terms of the world killing off the humanity.
Talking Dead interview really got to me with IronE getting emotional. Really felt like the actors feel passionately about the show and how they’re all part of a family. ;_;
I have to ask: How do you all separate yourselves from the comic books?
I can’t do it, I can’t help it. Now hear me out: I’m not talking about I want to see a literal translation of comic panel to TV screen. Too many people mistake my sentiments that way (my own friends even when I explain it) and that just annoys me more. I don’t care that events are different, characters are different, etc. I get it, and I accept those changes and sometimes they are for the better (Hershel is a great example… Andrea too).
But, take this last episode for example. When Maggie shows off a bloody hand and says “Something’s wrong”, I just nodded and thought “yep… this where Lori dies”. And when the whole thing plays out, I can’t help but think the whole time, “This is no where as f**** up and how she dies in the comics”.
So while I recognize the emotional impact of the episode, its lost on me a little because I find it a bit more melodramatic and not as emotional as to what happened in the comics. Yeah, Carl having to shoot Lori is pretty messed up… that’s still no where close to a mother and baby getting shot by some megalomaniac evil mother f******n’ madman. And I’m not saying I expected it or wanted it to go down the same way, but I still can’t help but not ‘feel it’ the same way.
I think my enjoyment of the books really ruined my chances of fully enjoying the TV show, even though I have zero expectations that the show is going to be anything like the comics.
I find the TV show to be much more emotional than the comic book because here I’m watching people as opposed to drawings of people.
@JesseCuster
I think you and I are in similar places with the TV series. Already knowing the general plot arcs from the comics gives me a good idea of story beats that the TV series is going to hit. I also can’t help comparing both versions and like you think the TV show is not quite as good. I liked the first two seasons, but somehow #3 is letting me down. Maybe it’s because the show’s original head producer, Frank Darabont, was fired.
I think it’s inevitable that a story like this is going to be watered down for commercial tv. I don’t think AMC is brave enough to show their audience the kind of psychological cruelty and sadism that’s in the comic. And I don’t think most viewers would accept it or tolerate it if they did. Such a show would have to have a different rating that would mean it couldn’t be shown on a basic cable network anyway.
I’m trying to accept & enjoy the tv series for what it is and I am entertained. Just not blown away. But, I’m still watching.
@jessecuster I don’t know man, I’ve seen a lot of movies and seen a lot of psychos kill women and children but I’ve never seen a little kid forced to shoot his mom in the head literally minutes after she gives birth to his baby sister.
Maybe our opinions of what’s F’ed up differ but family killing family is always worse than bad guys killing good guys
I kind of thought this out some more and if finally dawned on me:
Its missing the anger. Its missing the rage. The book has a lot of ‘angry’ moments mixed in with the despair and depression.
Again, maybe I used a wrong choice of words, but you misunderstand. I never said Carl shooting Lori was NOT messed up. I said its NOT THE SAME. Ultimately, Carl didn’t kill her either. Her pregnancy killed her, Carl was making sure she wouldn’t rise up again. As hard as it is for Carl, as emotional that is overall, you can nod your head and think, “That was the right thing to do, as f’d up as it was”. Lori and baby getting gunned down by a madman for no really good reason other than humanity has gone right out the window, carries an entirely different load of baggage. One that brings in anger and the need for revenge.
Also, relegating Lori’s death in the books as ‘bad guys killing good guys’ is a facetious way of tipping the argument. This isn’t Lex Luthor punching a hole through Superman… this is Lex Luthor murdering innocent and helpless Lois Lane.
Its the same for the Governor (so far). Killing to steal out of some messed up sense of survival is very different than killing just to kill.
The show so far lacks that angry tension where people did bad things for senseless reasons. Even if it sounds or seems messed, most everything in the show can be viewed as justified in the characters’ own right.
@jesse Now that i get. This show is nowhere near as angry as the comic, but I think this season has the potential to get close to that level toward the end
If I remember it right, it was a woman that was a Governor follower that did Lori in, then she blasted the Gov. Either way, it was his fault, but I felt a tad cheated that he didn’t actually do it himself in the book.
I personally love the slow build with the TV show Gov, and that eye twitch he gave Merle was chilling. Watching him revealed is going to be horrifying.
So T-Dogg was right, and Rick’s actions and inhumanity let to the deaths of T-Dogg and Lori.
Maybe I’m expecting it to be too much like the comics, but this has got to be the most overrated series I can remember. I don’t understand the hype.
It’s alright, but certainly nothing spectacular.
Ricks reaction reminded me of the “whats in the booooox” scene from the movie Seven.
Its really Walking Dead: The Soap Opera.
A GOOD soap opera…. but a soap opera none the less.
It may sound like I’m hating, but that’s far from the truth. I eagerly watch the show week to week.
“He thinks back to the inspirational talk that he had with his dad back at the farm and shots his mom in the head.”
Does he? It happened off camera, so something tells me that he didn’t do it, and it will be a shock value scene later, when Rick has to deal with it.
This. This i like.
I hope that isnt true. I hope the producers were just not comfortable showing a 13yo blowing the brains out of his mother 30 seconds after she gave birth. Otherwise, Carl is kind of lame again.
While I won’t completely discount the possibility of Carl not shooting Lori, it’s very very likely that he did. They most likely chose not to show the scene because its more f’ed up to the viewer to use their imagination and interpret in their own manner. With a scene so heavy as it was, I felt that Carl walking away stone faced did much more for the impact of her death. It’s not always what you see, it’s sometimes what you don’t see.
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I wondered about that too – what if he didn’t? What if we see her again?!