The other day, a coworker of mine came by wearing a shirt that he was pretty excited about, and it turned out to be a stylized coat-of-arms graphic with the words "Winter is Coming" below it (link) — a shirt obviously inspired by the Game of Thrones book (to the left is the 1996 printing of that book), and, probably, the miniseries. I thought it was a cool shirt and told him so, and proceeded to show him some desktops that I had downloaded from the HBO site when the show started, just to make sure that he knew that not only was I into the show as well, but (and I am just realizing this now) that I was into all of this first. And then I couldn't help but think, "Well, that's probably not a real shirt–it's just a fan shirt and just made up."
And I gotta tell ya…I am a bit disappointed in myself. Sure, those feelings were brief, but they were still there. I was behaving just like the kind of fanperson that I loathe, the ones that get all huffy and lame when something they've liked for awhile suddenly gets popular and now, somehow, I am in this odd position of status, like, I am somehow cooler than the newer fans of the book/characters/movies/whatever. To be fair to my friend, while he is excited about the miniseries, he doesn't have a TV so he's reading the books, blazing through them, actually, which, believe me is not recommended, as once Dance with Dragons comes out next week, who knows how long it will be until the next one comes out??
But I digress.
This moment in time got me thinking about the DC "Don't Call It a Reboot" Reboot and how a big part of the move was to get new readers into comics (or get lapsed readers back in) by offering them perfect jumping on points as well as (and arguably, most importantly) offering them choices in how they get the books, whether it be in print or in digital format.
I have to wonder: let's just say it works–and works really well–and, suddenly, the same percentage of people who read comics are, say, the same percentage of people you meet who are using an Android phone, heck, let's really go for it and say it's the same percentage of people you see walking around with an iPhone. Depending on where you are in the world, that's a pretty big segment of the "walking around" people you encounter on any given day. Because that's the goal, right? Get comics to be a more prevalent part of culture.
(Let me just interject for a second here: I realize that some might say that comics are already mainstream, thanks to the profundity of movies based on comic book characters. I think that these movies have built an awareness of these characters, but I am not convinced they've done the best jobs at getting people to read the comic books. I haven't met a single person who saw Thor or Green Lantern who told me they looked for a local shop and picked up a few comics. So, while movies are part of mainstream culture, comic books clearly have a ways to go.)
Would you, mighty reader, be thrilled at this new reality? The simple answer is, "Yes, of course–more people reading comics, the better!" But take a second and really think about it. Would you, even if you only admitted it to yourself, be kind of irritated that suddenly all these newbies were talking about how last week's issue of Batman was or how the new artist on Uncanny X-Force just doesn't do it for them as much as that "Opeña guy." No judgements, of course–you can't help how you feel!
This happens all the time, of course, especially, it seems, with bands (dozens of snarky "I liked __ first" t-shirts come to mind immediately). There's a certain sense of (admittedly self-congratulatory) esteem of being "in the scene" before everyone else, which, once that something else gets popular, that esteem becomes this feeling of "OG/Old School propriety," that, by sticking with that band/artist/DJ/comic before s/he/it got popular, you made it possible for the rest of the world to get in on the action, and there might be even a sense of, "Well, my work here is done, time to get off that bandwagon" in there as well.
Part of the appeal of comics is precisely because they are this off-kilter art form, a kind of story telling that is so many things to different people: Childish. Alternative. Cutting-edge. Pop Culture incubator. I was lucky enough to get out of town this weekend and read quite a few comics by the pool (by the way, really enjoying X-Men and FF and American Vampire, which I had fallen way behind on) and I received quite a variety of looks from the other mojito-sipping guests. I had a few guys looking like they were really curious to see what I was reading, I had some girls look at me with some sense of amusement, I had a few people just look at me blankly ("an adult reading comics?") but almost without exception, people definitely were not used to it.
I admit it–sometimes I don't mind that little attention reading comics in public gets me, if only to show people that yes, people do read comics and it is totally okay. There are other times, too, when I have read comics in a cafe or something and just hoped no one would ask me about them — the conversation usually ends up with me having to tell the other person that the comics in that box in their parents' house is probably not worth more than a few bucks…for the whole box. I don't always feel like explaining what's going on in The Flash or explain what a Red Lantern is all about. (Most of the time, I am happy to do it, but I can't help notice that sometimes, the more I talk about these kinds of specifics, the more the person's face tells me, "You know what? I really don't need to know this, come to think of it.")
But when I think about sitting in a cafe with 7-8 other people reading comics at the same time…it's almost unimaginable to me, I never see this happening anywhere outside of Comic-Con. Like, it would be cool–it would mean that comics are thriving, but (and I tell you this even though I am a bit embarrassed), I will just say it: part of the me would probably feel like, "Well, now everyone's reading comics…and now I just look like everyone else, and…I guess comics aren't special anymore which means I'm not special anymore." Silly, I know. But I think there is a shred of truth to it, as lame sounding as it sounds.
Can comics be part of main stream culture and still be cool? I don't know. Depends on what angle you are coming at the concept of "cool" from. Iron Man is a cool movie that is part of mainstream culture…but that's a movie, an isolated event. At a base level, I think the answer is, "yes." George R.R. Martin's books are the same as they have ever been — the characters and the stakes and the plots are appealing and will continue to appeal to certain kinds of readers. Same with comics.
If comics became much more "everyday," like they are in Japan, it would be a pretty big deal. Just culturally, it would be kind of amazing. I think digital delivery can be a part of this market expansion and I hope that the general public gets a chance to enjoy the many worlds of comics, as we have been doing for so many years.
I just wonder how many of us will actually cut back on reading comics if those days ever come, feeling that, now that everyone knows where our secret clubhouse is, that we don't really want to hang out there as much anymore.
Mike Romo is an actor in LA and is really not as superficial as he sounds in this piece. Follow him on twitter, friend him on facebook, or send him an email.
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should we want people to get into comics: yes! Do we always actually want them to: not always, no. Cos we are people and by nature hypocritical at time.
Well, it makes you wonder, as you highlighted on it – if you read comics and find them enjoyable now, would you find it enjoyable if many others like it too?
Could this be further analagous to the question of: “If you like a certain restauarant that all of a sudden becomes popular, would you enjoy it any less then?” Or even, “If you were at the ice cream shop and had always liked chocolate, if everyone else in the shop suddenly ordered chocolate, would you think that chocolate tasted any less delicious?”
I think that you should like something just because you like it not necessarily because what everyone else does. I mean, only if the quality of the comics is affected adversely by the popularity does it become an issue, right?
i think some of the defensive-ness felt by the comic readership over the exclusiveness of the medium may stem from the fact that a lot of folks carry over the high school mentality that it’s just not cool to read comics. They are for “nerds.” If suddenly the mainstream wakes up and realizes how cool this storytelling medium can actually be, then these new readers haven’t the “experience” of being maligned for supporting comics. it breeds a mentality of “i read comics back when it wasn’t cool to read comics.” It’s always more challenging to be a fan of something when it’s not popular or easily accessible. Im not defending the “i was here first” behaviour, but i can definitely understand where it comes from and i think that behavious would be pretty strongly felt among established comic fans should the medium get wider acceptance
As was mentioned in the article, comics are very like niche bands, when they explode, you lose that sense of elitism. And that’s what it is, elitism.
Saying that though, I revel in the elitism and the fact that it’s like a “cool” club I’m in with a couple of my geek friends. I do the same with bands, and yes, I do get a bit embarrased that I feel that way…
There’s got to be a happy medium where comics can sell enough to stay viable, and not be as popular as Justin Bieber (is that how you spell his name?).
I don’t think that comics will ever be massively popular again, as the majority of people don’t read, look at the problems that book sellers and libraries are having at the moment, this isn’t a problem isolated to the comics industry. The majority of society just doesn’t consume as much reading material of any format anymore, and that’s a sad thing.
the packs of humans from the Walking Dead are the perfect metaphor for comics fans. We want to find others…a few here and there, but get totally freaked out and untrusting if a large group comes along. Too many people to please at that point.
i think the fear comes from the stories changing to appease new readers or someone your favorite characters getting “pop cultured” or turned into something less pure so it can appeal to a more diverse readership. In some ways what happens when they go from comics to movie…stuff has to change and get adjusted for a wide audience.
i, like many comic fans, am one of those “i was here first” types.
but if i were to stick with that mentality, i never would have introuced the girl i love to comics.
and she would never have fallen head-over-heels for DC superhero books, and indie slice-of-life comics. and, in turn, she never would have introduced me, a years-long comic nerd, to awesome books that i never would have read on my own, and awesome books i’ve never even heard of!
also worth noting: if we all stuck to the “i was here first, you have no right” mentality, comic fans with children in their lives would not be able to share that with them.
i think we need to get over ourselves.
everyone loves Star Wars – hardcore geek fans and “normal” people alike. everyone loves superhero films, everyone loves video games… why are comic books any different? why SHOULD they be any different?
Throught the Golden to the Silver Age of comics, they were not only mainstream, but household items, can’t forget about it. Today, the characters are very mainstream, it’s very “in” to wear a t-shirt or a keychain with a dashing superhero on it, but for regular, non-comic book reading folk, three things happen:
1.- Most don’t like reading, at all.
2.- Diving into the mythology seems like too much, and still consider people into that “loner geeks” (remember geek is a derrogatory term meaning “freak” and not used exclusively for nerds).
3.- Most people have other hobbies and interests that already consume their spare time.
In my opinion, comic books as a mainstream item is a thing of the past, and their only chance to stay alive quite possibly is that the characters keep being relevant in movies, cartoons, and videogames, that may or may not be as good as hardcore fans wish, but, they keep the artists fed and the characters existing. Some may like it, some may not, but, as stated before, it is a necessity.
I enjoy when more people get into things like comics, especially if I’m the one that got them into it. I’m lucky enough to work in an office that has quite a few comic book and sci fi fans. Recently a lot of people I work with have gotten into Doctor Who, which I think is awesome because I have more people to talk about it with, but one of my good friends who also works with me, gets kind of annoyed and makes comments like “it seemed more special when we were the only ones who watched it” or something along those lines….and I just don’t get that. It hasn’t taken away from her enjoying the show or anything (she’s obsessed with it) but I still find it weird that she wouldn’t want other people to share in her enjoyment. The ONLY time I ever feel like this with comics or a tv show or something, is when people who are new to it act like they are experts and know/care about it more than me, that does annoy the crap out of me.
@spikevalentine Yeh, you pretty much summed it up there.
I would continue to read them, I like the kinds of books and movies I like to read and watch not because they are popular or unpopular but because I enjoy science fiction/fantasy and comics. If the Game of Thrones series gets a few people interested in reading the books good for it, and hopefully since they are trying to do one book a season this will light a fire under Geore RR Martins ass and we will not have to wait another 5-10 years for the next book in the Fire and Ice series. I use to work in a book store and hated when a parent would not let their kid pick up a comic. If a comic gets a kid interested in reading then let the kids read a comic. Most adults don’t realize that most comics are not written for children but are acually written for adults.
off topic: seeing Superman read a Superman comic is pretty amazing.
As somebody who has taken a lot of crap for being a “grown man who reads comic books” I would both welcome and loathe all of the Johnny-come-latelies who didn’t do their time on the front lines of the Nerd Wars.
But since most of them would probably be reading their funnybooks on some sort of electronic device, I don’t think it would be at all noticeable, until they suddenly had opinions about them to share.
Then I would just want to pat them on the head, in all of their dewy-fresh cuteness. While muttering to myself at their unmitigated gall.
It’s always weird to me when people seem to read comics solely because it’s outside the mainstream, or unique, or any other reason than “they’re entertaining.” I give my comics to as many people as possible that I think I can get hooked. Same with my “A Song of Ice and Fire” books. (Side note: you can tell how long someone’s been into those books by whether they refer to the whole series as “A Song of Ice and Fire” or “Game of Thrones.”) I’m wholly support anything that gets the maximum number of people involved in my favorite things, mostly because it assures that they will be profitable, and therefore assures that I will continue to get more of my favorite things. (I’m convinced Martin finally got “Dance with Dragons” done only because it coincided with the HBO series. But I don’t care. I finally get the book in one more week.)
I just hope George RR Martin does not die before he finishes song of fire and ice
I don’t want any of the things I like to become too mainstream. And it has absolutely nothing with wanting to keep them to myself or be a part of the cool kids club. No, it has to do with wanting the things I like to stay good. The second something becomes too mainstream, the moment it’s quality is going to take a dip. It’s just the way things are. The masses has very poor taste. Things with mainstream mass appeal are Transformers movies, 2 and a Half Men, reality tv, The Black Eyed Peas, Country music. I could go on and on.
So no, I don’t want the things I like to go mainstream. I want them to be popular enough to continue to exist. But I don’t want them to go mainstream for the sake of them continuing as the things I like. Breaking Bad or The Wire wouldn’t have been the tv shows they are if they were made for mainstream audiences. It’s a simple rule. When the creative process is burdened with having to pander to the lowest common denominator, it’s a recipe for disaster. Or in most cases, boring bland garbage.
David Simon said that he didn’t care if people who didn’t get his shows weren’t watching. That he doesn’t make them for those people, and that he doesn’t want them watching in the first place. That’s how I am with all the things I like. Be it movies, tv shows, music, or comic books. I have zero interest in bland mainstream crap that appeals to an overly wide swath of America. If I did, I probably wouldn’t be reading comics to begin with.
Well, comics won’t ever go mainstream ever again, so we don’t really need to worry about this happening.
As for the whole issue of “geek cred” or whatever, where people like to romanticize when their favorite little band or author wasn’t well-known–I think by this time people should get over that. If a favorite creator or property goes mainstream, that doesn’t change how good their past work was. Certain creators willfully hold back from seeking mainstream recognition, but 100 times out of 100 when a creator “goes mainstream” it’s because that creator wanted to go mainstream. So all a fan can do at that point is blame the creator, for whatever that’s worth (not much).
Personally I went through that when Neil Gaiman went mainstream about a decade ago. I’ve found all of his creative output since then to be far worse than what he was doing in the 90s. I’ve also found most of his interviews to be pompous or foolish since then as well. But that doesn’t change how much I like Sandman.
The whole this is really a non-issue, though. There are better things to do than worry about something that’s not going to happen, and worry about it for very self-involved egotistical reasons (no offense).
I don’t want comics to go towards the mainstream. I want the mainstream to come to comics.
I wasn’t really aware of how much I was part of this sort of mentality for a long time, until I met someone who is unabashedly open and friendly about the things he likes. He never wants to argue about which movie/series/comic is better than another, but he wants to share his loves with people and it made me understand how much I was not doing the same. I’ve always known people who were like that about music and movies, I just never really equated it to comics specifically, because people are elitist about pretty much everything anymore.
However, I will say (and I’m not trying to be a Debbie Downer here) that comics have a long way to go before they could ever even hope to be mainstream. The comics business is currently hinged on the idea that they are a niche market. The $3/$4 is what we are trained to pay, most people wouldn’t even think about paying that much for ~30 pages of content. Not when they can buy a regular magazine with loads more content because their publisher uses normal advertising/content ratios.
I would for more people to read comics. As it stands right now, I only have the internet to go to if I want to actually talk about something big that happened in the world of comics
I don’t understand that point of view at all, I want as many people as possible to read comics and to watch Buffy and to discover my favourite band.
More people buying comics = more people making better comics.
Global numbers wise, most people who like comics probably don’t even know they like comics. The distribution method right know is akin to door to door salesmen from the 1920s.
@ResurrectionFlan I agree. I don’t really see the business sense in keeping your product that people might buy if it was more available kept in specialty stores that can be hard to find if you dont know where to look.
I feel as comics define me so no I dont want everyone to read, and the whole world will never read comics in reality. But I want to open my own comic shop and hope people do read. Its a catch 22!
I don;t know Mike, if more people I knew were reading comics, I think it would increase what I am reading because I would want to try out titles they are reading, that perhaps I am not. Other than people in the comic shop there is no one else to discuss flash point with,, Ifanboy is a saviour.
@azrael1213 I’m not sure that is a correct analogy. i think the point is that if others started liking comics and your tastes were in the minority you could see the genre changing into something you don’t like. I guess it would be how vampire fans must feel about how Twilight has changed the genre
You mentioned about when people find out you like comics and I had that happen twice last week. I had people working on my house and I had comics laying out and 2 different people mentioned how they used to read comics and they have some old ones and how they could hook me up. Translated thats “can you take that box of heavy paper and pay me a lot of money for it”. Once I told them they aren’t worth anything they didn’t mention hooking me up again.
Because of my lifelong love and passion for comics I try to spread it around to as many people as I can. I enjoy the fact that the comic fan community is a very passionate almost subculture, but it would be great to have tons of new readers come onboard instead of us hoarding all the great stories and art for ourselves like stupid hipsters with their obscure bands.
This whole discussion reminds me of the guy from Scott Pilgrim who said “Yeah, but their first album was better than their first album.” I think that more people reading comics (or anything, frankly) would be great and probably translate into more, better comics. Also, in a perfect world, that would mean more people would be reading indie books and that would mean more creators could afford to afford to put food on the table or take their cat to the vet.
This is a great article, and i kinda do want more ppl to read comics. I wish it was something i could enjoy with more people. It would be great to sit around with a bunch of ppl and talk about comics the same way people talk about music or movies. And i agree with icn1983, i think the influx of people reading comics will breath new life into the industry and lead to better comics, and lead to more people getting into comics as a career which would lead to a whole new batch of creators. And there would be more shops, so maybe it wouldn’t take me forever to get to a comic shop.
I would imagine if comics went more mainstream, it would be more like the video game industry. The game industry out paces the film industry in sales, and is a norm in many family homes. Unfortunately, the comic industry would suffer the same fate asthe game industry with a massive repetition in product.
Hipsters can die.
i don’t care who reads, all that matters is what I read and what I think. I don’t like it, I don’t buy it.
Yes, I want there to be a solid customer base so I can continue to read and enjoy comics, every industry needs that. But the great thing about comics that you can’t do w/ other forms of media is actually DIVIDE it up. The mainstream can have the ongoing Batman series as long as DC give us die-hards a great Detective Comics story. Heck, DC and Marvel are SUPPOSED to be Mainstream, and thus the need for Vertigo and Icon.
My foray into Walking Dead was after it debuted in comic form, but years before there was ever a talk of a TV show. Meanwhile, a friend of mine who doesn’t read comics watched the show, went out and bought the omnibus, and now is asking us what we think of his idea for a Michon tattoo. Another friend who I turned on to Walking Dead recently decided he was going to drop $300 for issue #1. I have been collecting comics my whole life and I don’t care what these guys do. More power to them.
Comics have the unique power to cater to savvy and dumb, something you can’t do w/ music or TV. Your show either has to be accessible or unique. Your band either has to be deep or cawkrawk… trying to be both is usually detrimental. But comics can do this. You can have 2 titles w/ the same character and one is more Michael Bay while the other is more David Lynch.
@Bluestreak I meant that it would only be a problem if “I mean, only if the quality of the comics is affected adversely by the popularity does it become an issue, right? “
I think that the act of just more popularity or more attention to it shouldn’t cause you to enjoy it any less than before. The problem lies when quality changes. I know that more popularity and changing of quality are closely correlated, and maybe in this world they can’t realistically be separated. But theoretically, if it’s just comics becoming popular but staying the same “quality” then I don’t think that it should be a problem.
I think that the issue is that a lot of people get something extra from the sense of “elitism” that adds to their enjoyment of comics and I must say that if losing that sense of elitism is what it takes to drive them away from suddenly “mainstream” comics then maybe it’s because they didn’t love the comics enough as itself.
I tend to agree with Josh when he states in the podcasts that comics are just “another way to tell a story.” People will always judge you for the movies or novels that you watch or read. I would just prefer that they are not judging the medium of comics itself. No one has an opinion about you reading novels. They are more concerned with the topic or story you are reading.
Wouldn’t it be great if the day came that the average person in a cafe wasn’t judging the comic in your hand but the fact that you are reading Locke and Key instead of Deadpool Team-Up?
@genelaw9 My gospel doth spread, and it pleases me.
@genelaw9 As a reader of Locke and Key and Deadpool, I’d say you’re about halfway there.
This article is fantastic and perfectly illustrates why I tend to dislike the other fans of practically everything I love. They all have the worst, elitist, attitudes. It’s really hard sometimes to separate fans of things from the thing itself. I have to constantly remind myself not to let the crappy attitude of the fans of “_____” to ruin my enjoyment of “_____”.
I am pretty new to comics myself. I only started reading them last year, but I have always been a reader. I, like many others, assumed that comics were for kids or dorks. But after the Nolan Batman films, and Kick-ass, and Marvels movies, I wanted to read more about these cool characters. Even though my wallet may hate my new habit, my imagination, and thirst for stories, loves comics and will read them as long as they are engaging stories. I also have been trying to preach the word to other readers I know about some of the great stories available in comics, and how they are certainly not just for kids.