Pick of the Week

May 16, 2007 – Fallen Son: Captain America

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Size: pages

Story by Jeph Loeb
Art by John Romita Jr.
Inks by Klaus Janson
Colors by Morry Hollowell
Letters by Richard Starkings & Comicraft

Published by Marvel Comics | $2.99

I am not positive, but I think that I am the only person that I know of that has really enjoyed the first three Fallen Son books. It is entirely possible that I am.

For those who don’t know, the premise of these Fallen Son specials is to examine the fallout in the Marvel Universe to the death of Captain America by tying the plot of each issue to a successive stage of grief. In the first issue we had Wolverine in denial, in the second we had The Avengers (both New and Mighty) angry. In this, the third issue, we find Tony Stark going the bargaining route by trying to get Hawkeye to pick up the shield and become the new Captain America.

It took his recent return in the pages of The New Avengers for me to realize how much I had missed Hawkeye. He’s one of the oldest Avengers and one of closest people to Captain America on the team and once I opened this book and saw that this issue was going to be focused on him it hit me that even though I didn’t realize it, consciously, it was Clint Barton’s reaction to Captain America’s death that I most wanted to see explored. When this series was first announced, I thought it was Spider-Man’s reaction that I was going to look forward to the most, and he will get his spotlight in the next issue, but for right now this is the one that has left me the most satisfied.

A lot of that credit has to go to the artwork of John Romita Jr., Kaus Janson, and Morry Hollowell. I don’t know what happened to Romita but in the last five-to-ten years he went from being a very good artist to a pantheon-level talent. His style lends an almost regal air to the characters. His figures put the super in superheroes. He’s someone whose name makes my eyes light up whenever I see he’s going to be on a book.

My love for this book all comes down to Hawkeye. From his initial reaction to Tony’s offer to make him the new Captain America, to his confrontation with the new Hawkeye, to the very end when he made his final decision, I thought everything was pitch perfect. There are only a few characters in the Marvel Universe that I could see donning the red, white and blue suit and have it be okay in my head — Winter Solider, The Falcon, and Hawkeye.

Now, as much as I am enjoying these specials, it really is time that we move on with the post-death storyline. I’m really anxious for Captain America #26.

Conor Kilpatrick
The alleyway scene ruled.

Did you read Fallen Son: Captain America? Add a comment and tell everyone what you think about this week’s comics!


  1. Nice. This was near the top of my stack too. My Book of the Week was Satan’s Sodomy Baby. You can read about it and the others here:

  2. I have enjoyed the first two Fallen Son books a lot so your not alone Connor. But this book was by far my favorite of the three Hawkeye is such a great character, the scene where he they confront Patriot and Hawkeye2girl(?) was great both funny and dramatic. This book had the perfect blend of humor, action and drama this was a great book, nice pick Connor.

  3. I might be skewing history here, but didn’t Hawkeye go through a period of resentment toward Captain America? Y’know, the whole, ‘I could totally be leader’ phase.

    Was that touched on at all here, or is it pretty much all about looking on the bright side posthumous?

    Daria -said- there’d be days like these…

  4. I enjoyed all three books as well. As I was reading it I relized that I really do miss cap. Well not just cap but Steve Rogers.

    P.S. I just read all the walking dead trades this last week and I don’t know if there’s a better book out there.

  5. Full Disclosure: I didn’t buy this book.

    Why? Because I wasn’t a fan of the first two and I am debating wether or not Jeph Loeb is actually over hyped/over rated.

    With all of that being said, I am confused about the Hawkeye being offered the Captain America mantle… Didn’t we just see him in NEW AVENGERS and he denies having any conversations with Tony Stark? Was Tony shocked to see a living Clint?

    I’m confused (it really doesn’t take much)

    the Tiki

  6. Conor you aren’t the only person who has enjoyed all three thus far. I’m on that list with you. This issue was great and made you think the entire time Iron Man was with Hawkeye about how he might be a plant in the NA and what not. This mini has been great.

  7. Jeph Loeb’s got his Marvel feet back. Falen SOn ruled.

    I think Hawkeye could have made a good Cap, maybe.

    How bout that JRJR?

  8. Was anybody else rather disappointed with the books this week? Ultimate X-Men featured some of the worst art I’ve seen in a mainstream book,Justice League of America again seems to be rather pointless, and I won’t even get into All-Star Batman and Robin.

    Fallen Son was okay; I would have gone with Ultimates 2 #13, if just for the quadruple gatefold splash page.

    Oh, and Countdown is terrible. How the hell does Jimmy Olsen know who Jason Todd and Dick Grayson is? He knows about all the Robins but doesn’t realize his best friend takes his freakin’ glasses off and turns into Superman? Just unbelievably lazy writing.

  9. Fallen Son was great–would be my pick as well. I have enjoyed all 3. I thought it was interesting that they just threw in that 3 guys got decapitated by the shield trying it out. Enjoyed the interaction with the Young Avengers reminding him what it is all about. Also like that Tony gets told off in basically every issue of this mini.

    Mike H., they straight up covered the whole, I could be leader, with a flashback page down the old 60’s terrible colors.

    This issue was as awesome as the Mighty ‘T & A’ Avengers was terrible. The whole Tigra thing was stupid. They put her on the cover and at best she is a gratuitous cameo to show off that Cho likes drawing boobs. She’s not my favorite character but now she is just a punchline–a slut like She-Hulk without her own title.

    Also, the whole mix in everyone’s thoughts thing is distracting. This story is dragging on like crazy. Hey Bendis, new idea, let’s compress this story for a change.

  10. USM was cool though. I am loving the drama of the Marvel Knights run. So Bendis came throught on that one.

  11. I’ve enjoyed the first two Fallen Son issues as well. The idea of the stages of grief has been good and I still haven’t gotten over the Superman/Batman issue write by Jeph Loeb’s son. I know it isn’t part of the story on the page in Fallen Son, but the knowledge of what happened in Jeph’s live does impact my reading of the story.

    Countdown made my jaw drop. The way I read countdown was that the activities in the ongoing series of JLA and JSA (the current crossover between the two) and the current story arc in Flash (rogues getting together) are all tied to the overall story line in Countdown.

    This is very cool. Because 52 took place in the missing year in the DC universe, you never saw any crossover between 52 and this week’s book. Countdown this week had that crossover.

    Here are my thoughts on this:

    1. I’m pleased that they didn’t hype the crossovers. There was no special cover treatment indicating that the other issues were related.

    2. Is this really their plan? Are the activities in the monthly series in other dc stories going to be touched on by Countdown? Can they pull this off?

    Maybe I misread the story lines that seemed to crossover. I’d welcome clarification on that. But was anyone else stunned to realize what they were doing and to think about the implications of trying to pull that off on a weekly basis?

  12. Dudes, this week was awesome! Every book I read, I really enjoyed. There hasn’t been a week like this in a long time where everything was just so solid.

    I agree with the pick of the week. I’ve really enjoyed the other Fallen Son issues, and I felt this one was the strongest. JRJr’s work continues to floor me, and I loved the way this stage of grief was tied into the plot of the issue.

    I think Flash is becoming my new favorite monthly. Guggenheim is really hooking me with this new storyline and the art is great. When I put this issue down, I just wanted to pick up the next one…but of course, I have to wait until next month.

    Countdown was fantastic as well, and I’m very much digging how it’s tying into the other books I read. I hope that this aspect doesn’t turn too many people off of the book because the art is great so far and the story is shaping up really, really nicely.

    Batman was pretty good as well, although I get the feeling that this storyline is not wrapped up, yet next month is another filler. I feel like this inconsistency is really turning me off of this book.

    Mighty Avengers was really good, although I feel like the plot is really meandering. Sentry was super bad ass whomping on the new Ultron, and the ending has me intrigued enough to continue with the storyline.

    JLA was good as well, as the Lightining Saga finally starts to pick up. Metzler has such a confusing writing style for this book. This is the only comic I have to constantly flip back through to figure out what’s going on.
    I’ll be happy when I don’t have to pick it up anymore.

    I also picked up the World War Hulk stuff from a couple of weeks ago, and like Ron, I’m in for this one. I think I’ll only get the main series, but to see Hulk smash stuff will be fun…I’ve been reading too many serious comics lately. Can’t wait.

    I also caved and picked up the Mouse Guard hardcover, but it is set at the bottom of large stack of trades I still need to get through.

    Overall, it was an excellent week. I can’t wait to hear the podcast.

  13. Excellent pick Conor.I thought this book was great.I also felt this was a good week for comics.Ultimate spiderman,The Ultimates,The Flash,THE Mighty Avengers,Countdown,&Uncanny x-men were all enjoyable to read.

  14. Romita Jr. has come a long way as an artist, or I have come a long way as a reader. When he was on Uncanny X-Men waaay back in the eighties, he was one of the first artists I recognized enough to see his art and think, “Oh, sheesh, it’s this guy again.” It seemed like half the characters had the same eyes and nose. Now, I can’t wait to see what he’s going to do next; his Spider-Man was a highlight of my reintroduction to comics.

    I didn’t buy Ultimates, but I did read it. There were a few big moments that should have been satisfying, but I’m sorry to say they just didn’t have the impact they would have had if the story had actually flowed out in a timely fashion. The trade readers are in for a real treat, but it’s hard for me to get much out of a book once I’m mad at it.

    Brubaker’s first X-Men x-periment ended this week, right? How’d that end up?

  15. “Brubaker’s first X-Men x-periment ended this week, right? How’d that end up?”

    Actually, it didn’t end. That’s the problem. It just set up a new status quo. After 12 issues you couldn’t end the story? Very disappointing.

  16. I thought Ultimates 2 #13 read like two issues crammed into one, both art and story…just like I thought Spiderman 3 was two movies crammed into one. That was all I had time to read yesterday, should’ve just went with Batman or Black Gas 2. Those will be good. Maybe the Ultimates 2 will read better in a trade or something but this is the second time I feel I’ve been let down by a heavily delayed Millar book this year.

  17. Brubaker’s first X-Men x-periment ended this week, right? How’d that end up?

    Good, but I really think that it was too long in the set up and was forced to not realy give a substantial conclusion due to this being the final issue of the 12 story arc. I’m really looking foward to the next, 5 issue arc with Storm, my only hope is that some characters i care about get put on the team (I would send Ed Brubaker a check if he added Wolverine to his roster)

  18. I’m also gonna chime in that I’ve liked the Fallen Son books. The Avengers one is the weakest so far, but that’s not really saying much. This one was done well, though it occurs to me now that I can’t possibly imagine what Tony *thought* was going to happen when they confronted the Young Avengers.

    It occurs to me now that the minute Captain America told the world that he was Steve Rogers, he effectively prevented anyone from ever wearing the suit again. Dying in public solidified it. Both the public and the hero community would react the same way as the Young Avengers did.

    The only way anyone legitimately wears that suit again is when Steve is resurrected via the Cosmic Cube.

  19. I’m seeing a lot of love for the Fallen Son book. So far I haven’t liked any of the three so far. I’ve felt that Jeph Loeb has been a weak writer for some time now, just my opinion though…

    Normally I LOVE JR Jr, but I felt that this stuff was hampered by how dark everything was. Did anyone else feel that way?

    And is anyone going to talk about All Star Batman and Robin? I bought it as kind of a joke, I mean it’s been a year since the last issue, and here were introducing more characters and a bunch of splash pages and double page spreads. I do feel that this will read better all together, but for now, it’s pretty bad.

  20. I’m kinda surprised with the pick. I personally didnt like fallen son that much. It was interesting, but I’m kinda at the point where I’m tired of Tony looking like the villain in every book he’s in. It kinda bugged me that he was like that in Civil War, but it was kinda expected, cause everyone was gonna root for the underground team, but at this point now that the new status quo has been established I want them to really show the good of what Tony stark is doing. I just think that they’re going too far with the Iron Man bashing.

  21. “His figures put the super in superheroes”

    Dude, nail on the head right there!

  22. Ex Machina #28 for me guys. Great flashback! A cool storyline. A fantastic cliffhanger! What more can you seriously ask for in a book. I think I never felt wanting the next issue like this in a looong time. Wake up! There is no way a Fallen Son issue was going to top this.

    And now for my ass to get kicked: All Star Batman #5 was really good, honestly.

  23. Sorry about the multiple posts guys. Computer was being stupid.

    I completely got sucked into the checkmate outsiders crossover. I really like the writing. But Josh your fear has been realized, if you want to follow the current checkmate story arc thoroughly youll have to buy outsiders. Sorry…

    I liked Mighty Avengers. It did drag a little like last issue, but there was enough substance to keep me satisfied. Fun little cliffhanger too.

  24. My pick was ALL-STAR BATMAN AND ROBIN THE BOY WONDER! Damn what a fine job that frank miller is doing! he’s got the characterizations of Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman down perfect!……..ya right.

    seriously though, this was a great book! Im no hawkeye fan but this combined with the solo New Avengers issue really grabbed my attention for this character. And you are spot on with what you said about Romita’s art. I hated it when he was on Uncanny X-men (both times) but he improved on Spider-Man and the Eternals, World War Hulk and Fallen Son stuff looks amazing! he’s definitely refined his style.
    All in all this has been a great week so far (out of what i’ve read) Ultimates has been good (forgiving the delays), Mighty Avengers was awesome (Bendis took his turn at writing superman with that sentry scene), countdown= cool, Ultimate Spidey= thorougly entertaining, Even Uncanny X-men didn’t turn out THAT bad…..
    can’t wait to get to my other books because there’s still plenty of gold left in there (x-factor, Fables, Batman)

  25. What was the deal with the last line in Ultimates–she said, “WE’LL BE WAITING FOR YOU.” who is the we–she and Bucky, or was she pregnant, or what? Maybe it means nothing, but Millar has done a good job of putting little hints in. I know he is not writing the next season, but just wondered.

    And, you can’t bring back Black Widow now–she took an arrow to the face (deserved it)–but they’ll bring her back somehow.

    This title is one of my favorites but I will never read another Bryan Hitch ongoing again. I might pick it up in trades, but that guy makes molasses look like Wally West.

  26. I think I have to agree. Fallen Son was pretty damn good.

    Mighty Avengers was OK. I like that Bendis is trying something new (old?) with the thought balloons, even if it does get a little confusing.

    The biggest problem with MA is that it’s creating the most massive continuity problem in Marvel comics at the moment. Iron Man is showing up in every single book out there, but in his core team book he’s an evil naked robot chick. I guess you could explain it away by saying all of it took place on the Mighty Avengers’ first mission and every other Iron Man appearance takes place after. But that explanation robs the MA story of any drama. Oh well. Continuity headache coming on.

    Ultimates 2 #13 was pretty great, too. Probably my second place book this week. Except I was reading it in the car and didn’t have room to open the gatefold all the way. Damn that was big.

  27. I read the first issue of Fallen Son and wasn’t impressed. It just felt like a throw-away story and I just didn’t feel like paying $2.99 just to watch super-heroes morn. That being said, if the reviews keep coming in favorable then I’ll buy the trade.

    All-in-all this weeks books were all pretty much average. I had high hopes for Batman, Ultimate Spider-man and Countdown. All three were good, just not great.

    The one book I really enjoyed was Checkmate. This issue was probably the weakest of this series but it was still better than most of the stuff I read this week.

    I wish I hadn’t paid money for Batman & Robin. I don’t like Miller’s new take on Batman (Or Wonder Woman).

  28. “The biggest problem with MA is that it’s creating the most massive continuity problem in Marvel comics at the moment.”

    Yeah, continuity-wise, this whole story so far is just taking place in one day. Is the story lessened by the fact that we know Stark will come out of it fine? Yeah, in a way, but realistically we already knew that. And there are likely to be ramifications of some kind and hopefully some questions answered.

  29. Steve M:I thought it was interesting that they just threw in that 3 guys got decapitated by the shield trying it out.

    My take on it was that they had hit Tony, thus his armor remark, but yours makes a certain horrific sense. Though geez, you’d think Tony’d quit after one. Or at least put them in spare suits of armor.

    I’ve enjoyed the previous Fallen Son issues, but this clearly was the class of the lot. The conversation with the Young Avengers was great, and there were all sorts of subtle touches showing just how messed up Tony is these days; things like calling Clint “Cap” when he sees him with the New Avengers. No, putting another blond Avenger in your dead best friend’s costume doesn’t bring Steve back. Still dead. Still your fault.

    Or his breakdown in the last panels; first slamming the faceplate down as Clint starts to reject him (back to hiding inside the armor), and then that freaky possessiveness coming out again with his “go to the New Avengers and I will hunt you down.”

  30. ASB&R is fine if you consider it for what it is: Frank Miller’s giant screw-you to superhero comics. It began with Batman/Spawn several years ago, continued with Dark Knight 2 and now this. Morrison’s All-Star Superman is a love letter to the silver age; Miller’s work is a “Fuck off and die” letter.

  31. Good pick Conor it was really good a lot better than the other two fallen sons that came out, now the other two fallen son books were not necessarily bad they were average in my opinion but this one particularly stood out.

    John Romita Jr.?s art was fantastic I like his other stuff but this issue was a particulary good example of his art a lot less sketchy and finer than some of his other stuff. There was one tidbit I didn’t like, when Ironman goes after Patriot and Hawkeye after they’ve defeated the villain Patriot says to Ironman
    ?Did you see what we just did?! Firebrand?s the bad guy! Whose side are you on!
    I mean come on he’s Ironman for God sakes the leader of the Pro registration act and he does not know who he is and what side he’s on! Other than that great issue.

    Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder on the other hand was complete and utter crap! Why did I buy this book so bad so bad! In Dark Knight world I suppose it’s ok but its still shity! Every character here other than Plastic Man it seems is acting out of character. Wonder Woman is a bitch who refers to man as ?sperm banks?, Frank Miller seems to hate Superman’s guts for some reason making him a week because he plays by the rules, and Hal Jordan oh God that made me throw the book across the room!
    He portrays Hal Jordan as someone with no apparent use other than to get Wonder Woman’s coat that angered me so much this character gets misused all the time and it really ticks me off! >: – (

    So many good books this week (other than the Batman and Robin which is now dropped!) I think that the regular Batman title was my pick, with Morrison setting up the rest of his story arcs apparently centered on Damien Wayne and corrupt cops at the top of the system it got me really excited about the coming months.

  32. Did anyone else notice that Hawkeye was motionless the entire time he was in Cap’s costume. Frame after frame of standing perfectly still. I liked this one though, if only for getting some inkling of closure with the “Next Captain America” Question.

    Oh, and Countdown better get real interesting real quick or they’ve lose me. What a shitty cliffhanger. The Joker’s laughter was scary enough without being mucked up by an out-of-nowhere croc attack.

  33. I’m gonna read this tonite. I loved your Kirkman episode as well. I almost always like Conor’s marvel picks. If anybody is not reading Godland and you like acid trippy adult humor and Jack Kirby’s art style you have got to give this a try.

    Fear Agent is another good one. Wild west in space but it just switched over to Darkhorse.

    One question. Winter Soldier winter kills was great but it left off as if there was more to tell. Will there be more? What the F*#k is going on?

  34. Ultimate Spiderman was my POW. Very easy and predictable I know. A lot of my books this week felt good, but that’s all, just good…But UltSpidey(even though it was the last book I read)was so refreshing. It felt like such a peak after a week of just little hills.

  35. I Just got Civil War in Trade form and read it all at one sitting… It’s right how all the little details and knit-picks that came out (art and story-wise) don’t seem so important in trade form…. I have great hope for the last volume of the Ultimates to be the same way. I’ve read FALLEN SON and I like the format a lot, it’s kind of an anthology…waiting also for it in trade form.

  36. I don’t know what it is, but any time I get near a Loeb book at the shop now I start getting this weird cough and making this odd “hacking” noise in my throat. I’m terribly frightened I might have developed some allergies to… something. Need some penicillin or something.

  37. My regular store didn’t have Fallen Son so I had to get a copy from another store. Good stuff. I didn’t like the other two Fallen Son books. I think that is because I had some expectations for them that weren’t met. I didn’t know what to expect from this issue since the star of it is you know… dead. Actually, I would have skipped this Fallen Son issue if Romita wasn’t on it. He is my all time favorite artists in comics. He is the only reason I will be partaking in World War Hulk. This issue delivered. It was a great Hawkeye story, it was a decent Young Avengers story, and it was a pretty good Iron Man story. I can’t wait to read more of Clint Barton, whether he is Hawkeye, Captain America, or Ronin. Hell, if he wants to be Goliath I am in for that too. Hawkeye is and we have Bendis and Loeb writing him. Sweet! So we have two more of these Fallen Son books? I’m in.

    Ultimates was great. Quick rundown – Loki brings Hades to Washington D.C. and Thor calls in the cavalry from Asguard. Huge battle. The good guys win. The Ultimates decided to go independent. Tony pays the bill. Flashback to the day before Cap went off to WW2 and ending with dedicating the first two volumes to Stan and Jack. Good stuff. I liked it. I liked it a little bit more than Fallen Son. Fantastic art.

  38. Can anyone help me out with X-Factor? I stopped buying this book for a couple of issues, but picked up that last one. Why is there a bunch of former mutants working with Quicksilver who can give them back their powers, but doesn’t. And didn’t he already give Calisto back her powers back in Son of M?


  39. Connor, I have to agree with your pick. Of the books I read, it was the most enjoyable. Ultimates 2 #13 was too lite on story. The Batman books, particularly All-Star, fell flat, and had it not been for Fallen Son #3, I would have had a very disappointing week. And the funny thing is, I had no intention of buying it! The shop owner slipped it into my pull list. I was so upset that I’d bought the book. The first issue didn’t do enough to intrigue me and I’m trying to cut back on the books that I buy. That’s another story. Oh, and Y THE LAST MAN is awesome! I’ve been buying it in trades and I can’t wait to read the next one as soon as I finish one, which is always in one sitting. I’m looking forward to jumping onboard with WALKING DEAD next.

    Ned, what books did you buy this week that were so solid?

  40. “I read the first issue of Fallen Son and wasn’t impressed. It just felt like a throw-away story and I just didn’t feel like paying $2.99 just to watch super-heroes morn.”

    That’s EXACTLY how I felt! I gave issue #1 to a friend of mine who likes Yu’s art. Not that I don’t, but I knew he’d enjoy it more than I would, because I planned to toss it in a long box and forget about it.

  41. One question. Winter Soldier winter kills was great but it left off as if there was more to tell. Will there be more? What the F*#k is going on?

    Do you mean more with the Winter Soldier character? Yes, I assume it will be in the pages of Captain America. I imagine that the special and the series are linked.

  42. I want a Black Captain America… I think it’s time. Actually it’s way past time. In the 80’s when they did the horrible US Agent storyline they should have done it then. Falcon would be perfect.
    By the way, I loved the Avengers as a kid and Hawkeye was a big part of that along with Cap. I loved this Fallen Son issue and I am not a Marvel person much anymore. I could easily see Hawkeye take over the ” flag ” as he calls it.
    But I think it would be great to see a different skin tone under the mask.

  43. Tolly, seek out “Truth” by Robert Morales and Kyle Baker. It is exactly what you are looking for. The story of a black Captain America that wore the flag before Steve Rogers. A really good story.

  44. OK OK I haven’t read this yet but I listened to the podcast for last weeks pic today. I Guess I feel the same way about DC that Josh feels about Hulk. I tired it in the past two years and I just can’t do it. My point? read the first five pages of prelude to world war hulk. It has hulk dreaming of kicking the illuminati’s ass; including Black Bolt! So here comes a voice mail.

  45. All Star was awful, of course, as we’ve come to expect. Ever since DK2, Miller and superheroes are just poison. It read like he was channeling that Crime Society crossover that I think Millar wrote some years back.
    Dull. Move on Frank. At least we won’t have to deal with the next episode until after election day.
    Fallen Cap was good, but I have to admit I LOVED JLA. Beautiful looking book, interesting character bits. And I could even ignore Vixen.

  46. It’s not that Bendis is “doing something new”, he is doing something old and after hios first issue doing it, it has gotten bad and confusing.

  47. honestly, I have been tryin to LOVE JLA, but i seriously had no idea what went on in some spots, and i’ve been doing this for 30 frickin years… throw me a bone meltzer, im an evil frickin genius, give me a story i can understand

  48. I was just watching the FIRST episode of Angel with my boy Griff, and the very first Vamp Angel kills is palyed by Josh Hoolloway, Sawyer from Lost….. just an FYI

  49. Countdown 50: I wish Jason Todd were the main character, and not Jimmy Olsen.

    Uncanny X-Men: Thank gods this story is over, so that I can stop buying this comic. With any luck, the Annihilation Wave will come in and kill off the entire Shi’ar Empire. (I love space stories, too.)

    X-Factor (my last remaining Marvel Comic): This was the worst issue of the series. Possibly the worst issue of the week (which i saying something, as I bought Army in Love.) Dropped, meaning no more Marvel for me.

    JLA: My POW. No fights, just relationship building, the kind of thing that was missing from the first arc. I now know exactly why the Legionnaries are in the past, what they’re going to do, and what the outcome of the story will be. Great Red Arrow stuff. Exactly one panel of villains, but with three of the biggest for JLA and JSA. I only wish they’d included a Legion villain, as well. It’s good to have Dawnstar back, even if she is going to die. She’s one of my favorite classic Legion characters, along with Karate Kid.

  50. JLA was my POW! The art was stunning. It had one of my all time favorite characters ever: Brin Londo aka Timber Wolf. An amazing character that was pre wolverine. The classic costume was great. No one draws a better Hawkman then Ed Benes.

    I gotta love a book that has intelligent gorillas riding dinos through a City. We also got some cool insighte at the social structure of the city and really interesting gorilla names.
    And Vixen actually kept up with Jay Garrick. Nice.

    This storyline is really meeting my expectations. I long for a Legion book featuring these DC classics.

  51. I went against my better judgment and bought the ultimates 2 #13 despite it being almost a year late. It was good, I love this series and i cant wait till it starts shipping more regularly. My suggestion is to read the hardcover when it comes out and not bother with the issues though.

  52. I went against my better judgment and bought the ultimates 2 #13 despite it being almost a year late. It was good, I love this series and i cant wait till it starts shipping more regularly. My suggestion is to read the hardcover when it comes out and not bother with the issues though.

  53. Batman was pretty good as well, although I get the feeling that this storyline is not wrapped up, yet next month is another filler. I feel like this inconsistency is really turning me off of this book.

    Next issue continues this issue’s story, but they’re not marketing it as such, instead making it seem as if the whole story will focus on Damian in the future. When in fact, it seems as if that part will just be to show him as the third Batman from The Black Casebook

  54. I would like to say that the previous issues in this little run have been quite interesting for me. I have to go with this one as my favorite. I did enjoy the Avengers tie in and the Wolverine was my favorite up to this point, however, This did something very odd for me. It really brought home the thought of Captain America as a person. He was above all just a man albeit with super powers, and as a man he had friends and people he was close to. It was not until I could look through the lens of Clint that I could see that. This was surely my POW and I don’t see how it could have been otherwise. This has managed to do what many other books since Captain America #25 haven’t been able to do, make me realize that we have lost a person that we have all grown to know intimately. Cap is dead and the world is a different place without him.

  55. I went against my better judgment and bought the ultimates 2 #13 despite it being almost a year late. It was good, I love this series and i cant wait till it starts shipping more regularly. My suggestion is to read the hardcover when it comes out and not bother with the issues though.

  56. These FALLEN SON books did nothing for me. The Avengers issue was especially horrible. I know what they were trying to do, but in my opionion they failed to do it.

    This third one with Hawkeye was better, but still way off the mark. The depiction of Iron Man is really bad and confused in the Marvel U right now. Bendis tried to give him some humanity in the Confession issue, but after Millar’s depiction in Civil War, he is the biggest ass in the Marvel U. Some writers try to make the pro-registration heroes come across as sympathetic, then others have no problem making them out to be down right villians. Ms.Marvel’s lying to Spider Woman that Cap was alive to trap the Avengers comes to mind..I hope they have her deal with that some time in the future.

    The whole Marvel U has become so disheartining it is tough to read. I hoped these FALLEN SON issues would do something to correct it..maybe have some of the pro-registration characters re-think their stance or show them feeling some guilt..but instead it was just another cheap way to make some $$$ off the Cap’s death storyline without really producing anything worthwhile.

    I just find the whole Marvel Universe to be in a mess (lets not even start with the awful Spidey titles..Ultimate Spiderman the exception of course.)

    Bendis New Avengers pretty good..but its still a tough read seeing the postion the characters are in. The ‘Mighty’ Avengers are just horrible. Uninteresting and unlikable characters that are tough to care about..even with Bendis writing them.

  57. I came into comics right when sin city came out in theaters, not knowing what to try i picked the first issue of all star batman and am glad to say i’ve come a long way since that fateful day. i saw issue five on the stacks today and had a bittersweet feeling, sure its been horrible but i couldn’t help but feel slightly sentimental when i picked it up and looked through it, this (and ifanboy of course) is what got me into comics like Y, TWD, and stuff by Brubaker, and Bendis.
    but i didn’t buy it, i know better now.

    on a side note, if that dark knight link is official viral marketing he’s damn well creepy.

  58. Great podcast guys, but Ultimates 2 #13 was awesome! Personally I like it when books are late because that means less money I

  59. I was just listening to the podcast and heard the thee of you talking about how the industry has to attract more casual readers. I would consider myself a casual reader and think that I would find it more attractive if there were serious digital options and it were cheaper. I even wrote a blog post about it recently.

    Please ignore the typos 🙂


  60. I want to second what Pat said. Ultimates was really good and well worth the wait. I excuse Ultimates being late and Batman and Robin too because (Ron, you even said something like this in earlier in the show) there are no other books affected by the continuity within these two comics. Yeah, it is a hassle and near impossible to follow the story at such an irregular pace, but I think the end product is something worth waiting for. No one is keeping you from catching up with the issues you’ve already bought. That 8-fold spread is a nice piece of art. Obviously, it is a personal preference whether waiting for these comics is worth it or not. Honestly, I think these comics would do better if they just went and released them as graphic novels, but then that would be an even longer wait I imagine.

  61. hey guys–

    listening to the podcast…I gotta say, I really enjoyed Batman and Robin–I know, I know, but for some reason, I quite liked the angry Wonder Woman and I loved Batman saying “I love being the goddamn Batman”…I dunno, I just was curious to see if there was ANY nod to the fact that it was so late or if there was some kind of recap..none.

    Ultimates was kinda lame, but I dug the gatefold, just for the sheer audacity of it. Sadly, the quality of the art wasn’t all THAT great. but I will agree– I like the thor in that book a lot.


  62. I was enjoying All Star batman & Robin the Boy Wonder before the year long hiatus. The only reason I didn’t buy it was out of principal for the delays.

  63. While I admire you taking a stand, I don’t think it will amount to anything other than you passing on a book you were liking. Maybe I am just being a huge pessimist. In the case of Ultimates, if you wait for the trade and then that gatefold isn’t printed the same way it appears in the issue then you have denyed yourself that experience.

  64. The only part of Ultimates 13 that was particularly interesting to me was when Ultimate Iron Man pithily came out in favor of the anti-reg position that Normal Iron Man opposed in Civil War. It was nice to see Iron Man espousing an ethos and say, “Yes! Exactly! Tell that to Other Iron Man! Where was this when Millar was writing that other book?”

  65. Ah, but the Ultimate New Warriors have yet to explode the Ultimate Stamford. The Ultimate Universe is still in its “cowboy” stage where superhero-ing is all about shooting from the hip. And didn’t Ultimate Nick Fury lay down the law to Peter? Saying something along the lines of “Once you turn 18 your ass is drafted into the Ultimates.” I thought I read him saying something like that in an issue of Ultimate Spider-man.

  66. Conversely, I suppose the Marvel U Axis of Evil has not yet felt threatened by the implications of the Initiative and sent anyone to attack Marvel U Washington. Perhaps we can leave that to the Hulk.

  67. Jimski, you better pitch that to Marvel tonight.

  68. While I admire you taking a stand, I don’t think it will amount to anything other than you passing on a book you were liking.

    I don’t believe my not buying it will effect anything. That would only happen if everyone else followed suit, which I knew they wouldn’t. But I couldn’t in good conscience complain about the delays if I went and bought it anyway. At the end of the day I have to be answerable to the face in the mirror.

  69. Anybody else think that the super spread in Ultimates 13 was completely uncalled for? I actually ran out of room on the train and haf to wait till i got home to finish it (very awkward moment between me and the people siting next to me)and when I finnaly got to reading it that entire thing was pointless. Pissed me off!!!

  70. I liked Fallen Son: Wolverine but thought that when both Avengers teams got their shot, it was a little lacking, especially the Mighty Avengers. It was almost as if that part of the book could have been in any other Mighty Avengers story. But I thougth that the Captain America Fallen Son was really personal and will only get better as Spiderman and Ironman issues come out.

  71. Just listening to the podcast now. Had a response to a couple of the listener question. Fanboydome needing geek friends. I never did. Read from 9 to 12. At 12 got into Jimi Hendrix and thus guitar. 13 to 18 marijuana made me too cool for anything. Got back into comics through my son at the age of 35. He is now 9. Now almost 37 casual reader for pure escapism. But my obsession with guitars and hendrix remains and surpasses comics. Also my obsession with apple products surpasses comics. The apple thing feeds into the guitar, amps and effects obsession. I enjoy your web site and podcasts more than the comics themselves.

    To the guy from Portland Maine. I am moving to Portland NH in July. Later.

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