While comics are making ground gaining acceptance, their growing presence in America’s libraries have brought about censorship concerns. It seems that, while we’ve been getting away from people banning books from libraries for a couple of decades, the introduction of graphic literature has spawned the rebirth of censorship in certain parts of the country.
We’re looking at you, Missouri!
I guess parents have figured out that the written literature isn’t dangerous because kids don’t read, so they’re going after the pictures now. The ghost of Wertham is smiling very slightly.
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This was bound to happen sooner or later. It’s so stupid. Obviously some books aren’t for kids. That’s why they have parents. It will never stop. Stupid fucking people have always tried to ruin for everyone else whenever they can’t handle something. Live your own lives, police your own children, leave the rest of us alone. Jerkoffs.
Why are graphic novels in the children’s section anyway? I went to my local library to get some trades once and I will never go back because they were in the kids’ room with Clifford The Big Red Dog and shit. Most graphic novels aren’t appropriate for children, at least the ones that are worth reading anyway, why not put them in the adult section? Because they have pictures? Really is that where we still are? An illustrated story can’t say serious things about the world? I beg to differ.
Move them to the adult section and leave us the hell alone. assholes
they really hit a nerve i guess
As an parent, I do have concerns about what my son will read once he gets to that age. And it isn’t just a matter of being a good parent. You can try to “censor” or “police” your children all you want and they will still find stuff. Sort of the nature of children.
Then it becomes a matter of what is really going to hurt children. Is a graphic novel going to actually mess them up? I dunno, who gets to decide what is called messed up?
I guess my point is that I’m not sure that every cry of censorship is entirely warranted. Like Fred said, some stuff certainly doesn’t belong in the children’s section. I’m not sure that every library in America has people that actually know that the bulk of comics are not entirely kid appropriate. A lot of those libraries probably don’t have the staff to do check it all. And a parent may not actually have the time to read everything their child reads. (My single mom surely didn’t)
So what is the actual solution? I guess the easy way out is to say, hey, it is the parent’s job to do everything, right. They are the ones that chose to have children anyway, so they need to do it all.
Here’s a question then, what about when say, a teacher decides to teach something I’d rather them not teach my children? Is it then my problem or the teacher’s?
I’m not sure what the answer is, I just don’t think it is a matter of, oh, those stupid fundamentalists want to get rid of everything that is fun. I’m sure that is true in some cases, but I’m not so sure about always.
Fred, we’ve got the same problem in Saint Paul, and it is one that makes this situation much more complicated than it looks. For example, I would like to go to the public library to check out trades and such, but they are under the “young adult” section in MN. While that is an improvement over being shelved in the children’s section, it clearly implies that comics are for kids. That’s a notion I find insulting, and I’ve felt literally embarrassed checking out books. It’s why I won’t get books from there very often.
For me, this clouds the issue of the libraries’ responsibility to parents and the community. I don’t know anything about the library in question, but I do think the legitimacy of community backlash depends on the particulars of this library’s shelving policies. I would never advocate censorship here, because I think books like Maus, Pedro and Me, Stuck Rubber Baby, Watchmen etc. should be widely available for readers to discover. (Not to mention that this would go a LONG way to gaining the respect of comics as an art form. Also – we should be able to check out Ultimate Spider-Man, because if I don’t want too think to hard and just read some kick ass super-hero action, then that’s okay, too). That said, if libraries are going to carry these books, then libraries and librarians SHOULD be held responsible for whom they are “marketing” the books to. If they are shelving Blankets or La Perrida next to the kids books, then they are simply not doing their homework as to what the intended audience of a book is, and generally misleading parents. I mean, I’m not a parent, but I can imagine being upset if I found a copy of American Beauty or Full Metal Jacket shelved with children’s movies like Finding Nemo or The Parent Trap. Those movies are great, but I don’t think they should be anywhere near the kid’s section, and I entrust the public library to make the correct decision about it. If it is in the kid’s section, then it should be okay for kids.
Obviously, it is a terrible over-reaction to demand the books be taken out of the library altogether, but that doesn’t mean the libraries should not be responsibe for how they display their material. As I wrote, I don’t know if that was the case in this instance, but if so, then that library shoulders a great deal of the blame. Comics need to have it’s own section, period. Barnes and Noble has figured that out, I don’t know why libraries cannot.
I hope with more exposure, this problem is alleviated. We don’t seem to face the same problem with animation any longer. I think South Park forever got the public used to the notion that “cartoon does not = for kids.”
I think the library clearly carries the responsibility of knowing that comics aren’t just for kids. So just because a book has illustrations, it shouldn’t be grouped with kids, or even young adults books. Perhaps this means that they should just be categorized with the rest of the stacks, under, say, literature, or fiction.
That being said, I certainly wouldn’t be against keeping inappropriate material out of the hands of kids. No kids should be reading Preacher. This is clear.
I hope with more exposure, this problem is alleviated. We don’t seem to face the same problem with animation any longer. I think South Park forever got the public used to the notion that “cartoon does not = for kids.”
I would like to think this is true, but I don’t think it is yet. I wish it did, but there are huge swaths of Americans who just do not get this concept. They also don’t understand that all video games aren’t children’s entertainment, hence the cries against GTA, for example.
So, therefore, we must continue the good fight. Give great graphic novels to intelligent adults as gifts, and begin spreading the word that way. At least that’s what I do.
And if you know any librarians, ask them what they think of it, and help educate them.
I’ve only read Blankets, Maus, and Watchmen out of those titles mentioned in the article. I am studying to be a secondary education school teacher. That is middle and high school. I have already developed one lesson using Maus and I don’t see anything particularly offensive with that story. I actually got some decent responses from using that text. I would like to use Blankets, but I can see some issues arising with that text. Depending on that values of the community that it is speaking to. I would love to use Watchmen for all sorts of lessons, but right now that is more of a geeky comic book thing I would like to do. I haven’t looked into the text for intellectual work, but I can see Alan Moore being a writer some parents could have a problem with. Pride of Baghdad is a text I think could work well in a classroom, very similar to Maus.
I can understand parent’s concerns about some of the content of these texts. Some parents don’t want their kids to be exposed to sexuality or violence. However if those kids are clever enough to seek out those images at their library or on the internet then they are at an intellectual level where they can be sat down and talked to about the images. Parents need to let their kids know at what level they are comfortable with their kids exploring both of those subjects.
I think it is easier for kids to see an image and get a wrong idea about it than it is for them to read a line of text and interpret it in a negative context. Parents and teachers need to educate kids to look for depth in the media they absorb. To gain a perspective on the thought that was put into presenting that image or text. It is very easy to look at a picture and gain only a surface level understanding of what it represents. In a lot of ways graphic novels have an advantage over regular text novels, because of the imagery they use. We live in a very visual world and it is very a valuable skill to have to be able to interpret the images we absorb everyday.
Finally, whenever I read something like this I feel it is a parent who doesn’t want to “parent” their child. So they choose to shut the issue behind a curtain and not deal with it. If it is a public library anyone in the community has a right to voice what they believe is appropriate or not for that collection of texts. However no one voice has a right to dictate to the rest of the group what is appropriate. These people need to come to a consensus on what is right for their community. We should be able to do that as mature adults.
Josh – I couldn’t put that more clearly or persuasively if I tried. Well, i guess i did try, and fail.
“there are huge swaths of Americans who just do not get this concept. They also don’t understand that all video games aren’t children’s entertainment, hence the cries against GTA, for example.”
Perhaps I give people too much credit. I was actully thinking the exposure to GTA in the public has caused most parents to realize that vids aren’t just for kids, but I stand corrected. And disappointed.
“Give great graphic novels to intelligent adults as gifts, and begin spreading the word that way.”
Amen.
Dave – great post. My girlfriend Emily is getting her Masters in secondary education and is playing with the idea of using some comics in her lesson plans, as well. In a word: thanks. If I had kids, I want you as their teacher, and not just because you like comics, but rather you are clearly putting a lot of thought into what will engage kids in the process of thinking, not just teaching canon for canon’s sake.
As for Watchmen, I don’t think that’s a geeky fanboy thing. Watchmen would be perfect to introduce all kinds of semiotic concepts, and would be particularly useful in instructing students on visual motif and meta-narratives. I do think that the main themes of Watchmen are predominantly deconstructive in nature, and without a pretty good handle on the visual vocabularly of comics in general and the super-hero genre in particular, a reader would miss a lot. (It’s why you can’t let Watchmen be someone’s first comic.) But the narrative techniques used within are teachable and can be extrapolated not only to other works, but also other media. And kids just love a good exploding-telepathic-alien-clone-massacre. Always a hit.
Fred, we’ve got the same problem in Saint Paul, and it is one that makes this situation much more complicated than it looks. For example, I would like to go to the public library to check out trades and such, but they are under the “young adult” section in MN. While that is an improvement over being shelved in the children’s section, it clearly implies that comics are for kids. That’s a notion I find insulting, and I’ve felt literally embarrassed checking out books. It’s why I won’t get books from there very often.
I completely understand where you’re coming from. I only went once and I left without anything and will never go back. It wasn’t just the embarassment of being in the kids room, it was also the looks I was getting like who is that creepy guy in the children’s room with no kids?
As an parent, I do have concerns about what my son will read once he gets to that age. And it isn’t just a matter of being a good parent. You can try to “censor” or “police” your children all you want and they will still find stuff. Sort of the nature of children.
I want to be really careful here because I don’t want to be unclear and have you think that I’m talking about you. In fact I am not talking about you. I don’t know you or your children. Just wanted to throw that out there because I would be really pissed if someone insinuated that I wasn’t raising my chidren right.
I’m a parent too. I have a son and a daughter. I very strictly control what they are exposed to from every conceivable standpoint. I know that it won’t work forever but I also know that I’m teaching them well enough to be able to handle situations that fall outside what they already know. They are learning the difference between right and wrong and also what is expected of them in life. Does that make sense?
The bottom line is that the people that scream the loudest about this shit are the people whose parenting style allows their children to build bombs in the fucking garage without them noticing(see Columbine)
I get really wound up on censorship issues so I’m going to try to gracefully bow out of this thread now. It won’t work but I’ll try.
As a Missourian I think it is my responsibility to comment on behalf of fanbouysd in the show-me state.
When I was nine years old I found a copy of The Dark Knight Returns #3 at my local libray.
I opened the book and saw a topless nazi woman with swastikas tattoed on her breasts, loads of curse words I had not heard as of yet, and the Joker breaking his own neck. My fragile mind was not prepared for this. The darker tone of Batman had not been revealed to me slowly and with any tact. I was thrust into a disturbing (Albeit classic and very well written) wolrd that I had no concept of.
It gave me nightmares. So did the copy of Arkham Asylum I found shortly thereafter.
In some ways it really dmaged the icon of Batman to see things I could not even comprehend done is such vicious manners.
A little bit of my childhood innocence was lost.
I agree with not censoring the books that we have available in our libraries. If I were to check out “Interview With a Vampire” or any Elmore leonard novel, which are readily available in our fiction section, I would find similar content and tones as Watchmen or Maus. I see nobody protesting an adult reading adult material.
But, children should not have access to this material. Many could find themselves damaged. The material is not to blame. The innicent reader is not to blame. Not even the conservative parents are to blame.
It’s the librarians.
So, if the librarians of our state would actually look at the content they are offering, rather than assuming that the appearance of word balloons and pictures equals children’s content, we could see a flourish of comic interest in our state.
Maus is one of the greatest stories ever told in any medium. Watchment made me question the very large moral gray area that not only do superheroes tread, but human beings in general.
These books also have a clerar label on the front of the book as well as the spine that spells out, in bright letters FOR MATURE READERS.
I know the perception is that our state is a bunch of country bumpkins mating with our sisters, who can’t rerad or write. I would love to dispel that myth…
Unfortunately when simple, easy oversights like these are made I can offer no argument. Thanks Missouri for setting the state’s image back a few decades.
Really, FOR MATURE READERS. I don’t think nine years old is mature. That makes the equation easy. These are adult books, written for adults, and should be in the adult area of the library.
My library has a Graphic-novel section organized by title and another section organized by author. A lot of non-mainstream works are organized by authors. A lot of super hero trades are organized by title. If you want to reading Ultimate Spider-man trades you have to go into the title section (look to the bookcases on the left). If you want to read Fortune and Glory by Bendis you have to look to the authors section (look to the bookcases on the right.
So I went into the library early this past week to pick up the second trade of Invincible, but only the forth was sitting on the shelf. That is when I remembered there is a graphic novel section in the kids area of the library. Hey the guys at iFanboy said that comic is pretty cool, they seem like mature minded readers, I think I am pretty mature, I was willing to bet that even though it was in the kids section of the library it has some mature value to me. So I went into the kids section and there was another guy my age thumbing through the graphic novels. So I wasn’t the only guys who would have been getting weird looks, but I didn’t feel like anyone was looking at me strangely for being there.
I just read into it that someone at the library recognizes the difference between Invincible and Preacher. They want kids to have access to Invincible but not Preacher. I think that is good thinking. I can walk my ass into the kids section and pick up some entertaining literature and not feel self conscious about it. I am an adult like that. No one is judging me for reading comics. At least no one whose opinion matters to me. If I had plopped down into the beanbag chair and started reading those trades, I would probably be judged, and I would have deserve it.
Then again. My library has two graphic novel sections. One in the kids section of the library and one outside of it. So I don’t always have to go into the kids section, but I do if I want to read Invincible.
If you feel so strongly about having to go into the kids section or the collection you find when you get there, talk to one of the libraraians and explain your side of it. I am sure they want what to give you the best selction they can, they’ll listen to you.
I have to have a conversation with these people about Preacher. I want to read the whole series, but they start their collection on the forth trade. What the hell is that about?
I went to school to be a librarian. Why, I have no idea. And I understand the issues of labeling as a form of censorship and adult content and all the other issues being bandied about.
My problem is that this woman called these items pornograpy.
PORNOGRAPHY. I mean, has this woman ever watched a porno?
Ugh.
Hey Jan
Her address is freely available on our beautiful interweb. We could always send her porn so that she can make a reasonable comparisons.
I’m just kidding. I would never do that. And you shouldn’t either.
Fred, you’re right. We shouldn’t. What if we just sent her links?
How they hell could anyone think that Watchmen is porn? There aren’t even any horses in it
Just to be clear, I perhaps joked that Missouri was to blame, but if I’ve learned nothing else through this site, it’s that there are a whole bunch of smart, modern comics readers in Missouri. Unfortunately, you don’t run the libraries. You think you’ve got it bad, just imagine how the smart people in Kansas feel…
(See I dig myself out of a hole, only to throw myself in another.)
Here in my corner of Missouri (the Most Dangerous City in America) the local libary’s graphic novel section is indeed with the Young Adult books; in fact, I have a librarian friend who puts them there. I never thought of it as a putdown of the material, though, but rather a very pragmatic application of supply and demand. They put the graphic novels in the Young Adults section because they’re the things that consistently get young adults to read. Kids keep coming in asking for Sandman, so we buy a shitload of Sandman and put it where the kids look. I mean, holy Christ, kids are coming into the library looking for books. In 21st century America.
As for the censorship, I think that’s pragmatic too. There’s plenty of material in a given library that’s objectionable to you; comics just make it way, way easier to see where it is. You don’t have to read every line for the smut; there’s a big picture of it right there.
Personally, my Missourian parents were so glad I was reading they never gave a second glance to what I was checking out. And they really should have. Swear words a’flying in those books, man.
When I was in eighth grade, my sister looked over my shoulder and saw the naked nazi woman in Dark Knight 3. She was scandalized, but I told her it was just a burly dude. Miller’s art made this lie just believable enough.
My local library puts their comics in the Young Adult section as well, mostly.
That’s what annoys me the most is that it is very inconsistant. They also put comics in the non-fiction area under the 741 decimal # next to stuff like Boondocks and Calvin and Hobbes.
In the young adult section they’ll have the Superman, Batman, Spider-Man and X-men along side stuff like Black Hole, Hate, and Sandman. While over in the nonfiction adult area, Scott Pilgrim, digest sized Runaways and Ultilmate Spider-Man.
I love the fact that my library has all this cool stuff to read for comics fans like myself and for people that are curious, but I wish there as a little more consitancy.
“The novels, using the pictures and dialogue balloons of comic books to tell sometimes sophisticated stories in book form…”
It’s almost like these “novels” are comics themselves.
Is it bad that this is what really makes me angry about this article?
“My concern does not lie with the content of the novels, rather my concern is with the illustrations and their availability to children and the community,” said Louise Mills, a Marshall resident, at a recent public hearing reported in the local newspaper. “Does this community want our public library to continue to use tax dollars to purchase pornography?”
Aren’t the illustartions considered content?
And personally I can think of a lot of things the government spends tax money on, that I would prefer be spent on pornography.
Pornography is anything obscene that has no artistic merit. So it’s really a meaningless term, because everyone has their own standard of obscenity.
To me ‘The Passion of the Christ’ was pornography because it focused only on the act. Much like a porno movie has no story and focuses only on the act.
The government and librarians shouldn’t have any say as to what can be shelved in a library; only where a book should be shelved so that only appropiate readers have access to it.
“‘My concern does not lie with the content of the novels, rather my concern is with the illustrations and their availability to children and the community,’ said Louise Mills, a Marshall resident, at a recent public hearing reported in the local newspaper. ‘Does this community want our public library to continue to use tax dollars to purchase pornography?'”
Wait, but if she isn’t concerned with the content of the books, why does she use a word like “pornography” which specifically attacks the content? It just seems like the same old censorship trying to disguise itself as something new. I mean, how hard was it to find those sorts of pictures bereft of meaning when I was that sort of age? I knew to just look in the “Art” section for a good set of boobies to giggle at.
It’s stuff like this that reminds me that comics still have a long ways to go before they’re truly accepted as a legitimate art form. I mean, how well organized can the rest of the library be and still not have a regular place for them? I found them in the sci-fi section at my old library and the young adult in my new. I think that while the logistical problem does lie in the libraries themselves in that they don’t place the books properly (and likely do so unaware of the actual content altogether), it’s more a symptom of the wider, still-unresolved societal issue.
We wouldn’t have this problem if we still used the Dewey Decimal System.
Q: “Where are the graphic novels?”
A: “Oh, they’re over there at 530.9544324 x 10^17-4(X)+3.14…”