APoetSomeday

June 19, 2013 4:18 am You're probably right on that one. Bruce Wayne doesn't have many friends at all at this time. Tommy Elliot, Roman Sionis and Lew Moxon's daughter Mallory are three of his only friends...You're damn right he has issues! The majority of BW's childhood friends grew up bad.

June 16, 2013 8:05 pm Jim Lee really is a nice guy. I was lucky enough to meet him once at a ComicCon here in the UK. This was right around the time he was doing 'Batman: Hush' with Jeph Loeb. I seem to remember shaking his hand (though that may be just wishful thinking on my part) and I got him to sign one of my 'X-Men: The Art of Jim Lee' books with Gambit on the cover. He looked at it for all of a couple of seconds, scribbled on my book and went back to sketching Batman for some lucky bugger with more money than me as I thanked him. He was very busy, but I still got very strong 'nice guy' vibes from him. He wasn't hurried or dismissive, just busy, but I really felt like he had time for each and every one who queued up to see him (even if it wasn't a lot). I'd love to meet him again some day. On a side note, my friend Dave declined to meet Jim Lee so he could get a signed 8x10 of Holly from TV's 'Red Dwarf'. He went with Holly, I went with Jim Lee. Norman (the fella who played Holly) didn't believe that my pal's name was Dave! lol On another note, I enjoyed the art on this issue, but felt that the story was a little bit undercooked. I like Mr. Snyder, but I don't think he's a great first issue guy. His stuff usually requires a bit of patience while it builds to a crescendo.

June 14, 2013 10:10 pm PS - You're welcome :D

June 14, 2013 10:05 pm They really are very enjoyable discussions. I love how people can have opposing viewpoints and still be respectful on here. It is actually very rare. WAC, your story about your son was much better and more affecting than my story about a stranger's kid. Bless and damn you in equal measure (lol). I often think of letting my kid go nuts on a complete collection of comics one day (when she or he is old enough to appreciate them, that is). I also have a vast array of classic albums that I'd love to introduce a little'un to one day, the same way my Dad got me into a lot of music. In a funny way, my Dad got me into comics as well, because he was always talking to me about the comics he read as a kid and always nicking my books and reading them. His childhood fave was 'Superboy' or 'Superman' he liked both. He even had the very first issue of 'Daredevil' if you can believe that. Occasionally, just to be a dick, I look up how much that comic is worth and remind him that my Nan gave it away. Nyuk Nyuk. I'm giving him my free 'All Star Superman' one-shot as an extra Father's Day gift because I think he'll enjoy the 'Silver Age' feel of it (and also because I have the trade). When I was a kid, every Saturday morning my Dad, my brother and I would refuse to leave the house until we'd watched the 'X-Men' and 'Spider Man' cartoons together. Good times. Comics brings (good) parents closer to their kids and (smart) kids closer to their parents. :) I won't enjoy my weekend too much, I'm afraid. I have a pretty big writing workload to get through because in the middle of the week I am going (with my Dad and brother) to see Springsteen. Rock n Roll, bringing kids closer to their parents and blah blah blah.

June 14, 2013 9:11 pm This was totally worth waiting for. Is Black Beetle the new Hellboy? POTW.

June 14, 2013 8:45 pm That's a very good question. I thought I was done with this thread, but I really wanted to answer you and tell you a story (as long as you don't mind, that is). In my lifetime (I was born in '85), 'Year One' has been the definitive origin. However, that's not why I rate the book so highly. I just happen to feel that 'Year One' is the best Batman origin I've read. If 'Zero Year' did turn out to be better, then maybe I'd replace it in my continuity. I'd still be annoyed if it eliminated the other books I've mentioned, for the reasons stated above. As we all know, the original origin made no mention of Alfred or the Batcave, two elements that are now indispensable parts of Batman's creation myth. The origin can be improved upon, like anything else. But, at this point, it would take a minor miracle to do so. Anyway, by the looks of things, 'Zero Year' will be covering (mostly) different ground than 'Year One' and that will work fine for me. But it was a very good question. I hope I answered it. Now, the story: The other day my girlfriend and I were in our local comics store. She was going away for the weekend and so I was treating myself to a few new books to keep myself out of trouble while she was away (I picked up some back issues of 'Manhattan Projects' 'It Girl' and 'Detective Comics' - Just in case you were interested). Anyway, there was this stoned, washed-out looking loser plodding around the comics, just staring into space. This is actually pretty unusual as my LCS is a fashionable high street chain and not a dingy comics dungeon (the kind I've always been embarrassed to enter). Anyway, the tragic thing about this man was not his own lack of personality, but the presence of his son. This boy, who couldn't have been older than 8 years old, was constantly badgering his dope-addled Dad, clearly excited by all the comics around him. He was bright and articulate, a really nice kid. "Dad, is this one any good?" he'd yell from the other side of the store. "Look, Dad! Batman!" He'd gleam, smiling and pointing. "Dad, remember the X-Men from the cinema!? They have a Wolverine comic here!" The boy was so enthusiastic and bright-eyed that I almost went up to him and helped him choose some books. I'd have even bought them for him if there wasn't a social stigma against doing things like that these days. His Dad, for his part, simply grunted, or else ignored the boy completely. The bloated pothead picked up a slew of books and shuffled upstairs to pay, his child got nothing. The boy's disappointment was obvious, but he held it in like a pro. My girlfriend and I looked at each other and we both shook our heads. "If I had a kid like that who dug the X-Men and wanted to come to the comics store with me, I'd be the happiest man in the world" I said. We've talked about having kids off and on, but we're not in that place yet, (and I'm convinced I'd make a lousy father) but at that moment, the thought of picking my boy (or girl) up from school on Wednesday afternoon and flocking to the comics store with them in tow made me feel very happy indeed. It was a really nice thought and it made me think differently about fatherhood. Anyway, that's the story I wanted to share with you. There's no real moral to it other than 'I'm 99% certain you wouldn't be a dick like that guy was". So yeah, I dunno what you think about all that, but as somebody who is thinking of being a parent someday soon, I thought it may strike a chord or two. Draw whatever conclusion from it you wish. Personally, when I think about fatherhood and weigh up the Pros and Cons, that memory always sits firmly in the 'Pros' section.

June 14, 2013 10:22 am @Scarlet. I appreciate the point you are making. I even agree to some extent. However, I would say that the comics carry with them a sense of heritage and prestige that the TV shows, movies and games do not. Comics are the definitive Batman stories and everybody, comics fan or not, knows that. As a child, I understood that the TV show differed from the comics, but that the story was always essentially the same. The origin gives you all you need to know, now go enjoy the story. In that sense, you can read 'The Batman Adventures' TAS tie-in comic alongside any other books of that era and they work fine. TAS works fine when read with the books and The 60's show is a straight adaptation of that era's comics. Don't get me wrong, I understand that revisions are constantly necessary in the comics world. Comics readers, retailers, publishers and creators are in completely uncharted territory when it comes to the crafting of these modern myths. There have never been characters in continual publication, month in, month out, for the 70+ year timespan that we're now dealing with for certain DC comics characters. These characters and their stories need to stay fresh and relatable to a contemporary audience. New things need to happen to the cast, new villains need to be created to challenge and perplex the audience. New generations need to be reflected and their interests/obsessions catered for. I believe in all of these things. If you read my other comments elsewhere on this site you'll see that I, like you, am a fan of multiple eras and incarnations of The Batman and that I understand them as such. BUT: So far, almost all of those changes have been made respectfully (and while we're at it, I'm not suggesting that Snyder is not respectful). Also: don't explain how the Silver Age of comics or 'Crisis on Infinite Earths' works to me. Please. Read my other comments, I know my Batman. Anyway, WAC1 is absolutely right, if you change too much over too short a time period, it'll need rebooting with every other issue. If you remove the 'custodian' element from the comics, the link in the grand chain, as it were, then every single writer/artist will just do their own, singular interpretation of the character. That sounds good in the short term, but it will fail us all in the long term because people simply won't care when all is said and done. A serial depends on the episodes that came before it, that's how they work. They are snapshots. Why do you think the 'Amazing Spider Man' movie got such a mixed reaction? People were no longer invested in it, that's why. They now know it'll be rebooted in a couple of years and that the story simply won't matter anymore. It'll likely be the same with the next 'Batman' movie, I'm sorry to say. The landmark stories (Death in the Family, Killing Joke, Knightfall, Batman Reborn et al) are all important because something monumental happened in them. Something big, exciting and ultimately lasting. People read them to see HOW it happened, not just because they are great books. If you can always just 'reboot your problems away' then writers will just keep killing off major characters, turning good guys bad and wrecking the sense of heritage that I spoke of earlier. The end result is that nobody will ultimately care. No story will have any gravitas to it. Put our heroes in jeopardy with no threat of death, for example, and there's no sense of danger, no risk and therefore no interest. Finally, I do not hate 'Zero Year', nor do I hate 'The New 52' and I will not hate this story it if it fails to fit with the rest of my comics collection (although I will be annoyed that even the comics I have from the 1950's do actually fit, yet the ones from 2013 don't. Yes, that will annoy me and I have the right to be annoyed about it if it happens). Like 'Year One' perhaps 'Zero Year' is a "necessary revision" (to quote Denny O'Neil), but if too much is altered, then there won't be as much to go back to next time. Now, I believe this whole thread started when I said that continuity matters to me. It doesn't have to matter to you. In fact, you wrote that if it matters to me, then that's all that matters (or words to that effect). So yeah, it matters to me. If personal opinion is all that ultimately counts, then why are you upset that I'm worried this story won't fit in canon? Surely that's my concern? Also: If all we ever need these days is our own personal canon and this story doesn't fit in MY personal canon...Do I not have a right to be annoyed? On Chuck Dixon's website, he has this whole blog about not doing any permanent damage to the characters you write. He likens it to playing with toys. You play with your toys, have your fun, then put them back the way you found them for the next kid to play with. That sums up exactly how I feel on this issue. I respect where you're coming from, but, if I may be so bold, perhaps you should consider the bigger picture here. There is a legacy to maintain. People who are concerned are not just luddites stuck in the past, they care for and love the character and his world. People who cheer the new (regardless of its actual merits) are not the street smart, early adopting hipsters who 'know the score', there is more at stake in both camps. Both viewpoints are necessary, moderation is key. There is, as ever, a delicate balance to keep. Peace.

June 13, 2013 8:41 pm I ignore the five year thing as well. There's no way Bats had a 10-year-old son in five years. He's been at this a very long time and DC editorial just needs to deal with it.

June 13, 2013 9:15 am The thing is, on a personal level, I don't feel that Batman does need a reboot. Synder said as much in September of 2011. In fact, he's escaped most reboots almost completely unscathed. The character is truly timeless. There are minor changes, background changes, character changes and so on, but the essential history of the character still remains intact. This is one reason why his sales are always strong. Readers always know where they stand with Batman. In fact, its one reason why I stopped reading Marvel, because if I missed three months of Marvel's books I'd be completely lost and have no idea what was going on. My overall point, Scarlet, is this: DC made a big bru ha ha before 'The Dark Knight Rises' movie came out, saying: "If you liked the movie, go read 'Batman: Year One' 'The Killing Joke' 'The Long Halloween' 'The Man Who Laughs' and 'Knightfall' (amongst others)", all were explicitly referred to in the Nolan film series. Fans will find a synergy between those books and the movies that may well keep the characters familiar. When I started reading Batman as a child, I was totally familiar with the characters due to their appearances in TAS and the 60's Batman series. Familiarity is very, very important for gaining new readers. In addition, several of the works I mentioned are books that I hold up to comics skeptics as great examples of graphic literature. We comics readers can point to 'Watchmen' 'Dark Knight Returns' 'Year One' & 'Killing Joke' et al as examples of great art. However, imagine now trying to turn a potential fan onto them by saying "Yeah, go read Killing Joke, its great, but it didn't happen anymore". Then you have to explain why and the whole argument topples. Comics come across as dense and complicated, which is something 'The New 52' has tried desperately hard to avoid. Finally, whilst I'm not having a go at you, I really hate the phrase "If it matters to you, then it still matters" it is remarkably condescending. I am aware that my Wally West Flash stories didn't shimmer and disappear like a McFly family photo with the onset of 'The New 52' and Barry's return. Really, I am. Please give me some credit. I appreciate what you're saying and I agree that personal continuity is important to all comics readers, but I think the landmark books need to be left in place. If only from a sales perspective, replacing all those big selling trades with one story is a bad move.

June 12, 2013 8:08 pm I've read this issue twice now and I genuinely really enjoyed it both times. I loved the idea of the flooded subway, as well as the triumphant return of Batman's purple gloves! (Bat-historians amongst you -- exalt!). Phillip Kane is an interesting character as well. I also liked the various nods to Morrison's 'Return of Bruce Wayne' series, as well as the 'Batman Begins-isms' that were peppered throughout. The artwork was (as usual) superb and Snyder's dense captions and overall 'wordiness' (something I've been slightly critical of in the past) were eschewed in favor of a more fluid visual storytelling style. All of this is positive. Now, the area I was most worried about was 'Zero Year's effect on continuity. I know, I know, but it matters to me. In that respect, we're actually fine so far. Lucius Fox worked for Thomas Wayne? OK, why not? Young Bruce meets him in Paris (as seen in 'Haunted Knight'), but that doesn't mean he couldn't have worked for Thomas first. My only real problems (so far) are: a) If The Red Hood turns out to be The Joker, then we could be effectively seeing the removal of 'Year One' 'The Killing Joke' and 'The Man Who Laughs' from continuity (and that would just be wrong). b) No way would Alfred allow Wayne Manor to fall into disrepair, unless he's been away...And if so, where has he been? (Presumably not to London to visit the Queen). He even cleaned up there during the Penthouse years, if you remember. c) If Harvey Dent becomes 'Two Face' during this story, then 'Long Halloween' and 'Dark Victory' are out as well. I'll actually get mad about that. These are quality books that new readers are reading, it'll turn people off if they don't matter anymore. So far, both chapters fit comfortably between the pages of 'Year One'. So far, I'm happy. Roll on next issue.