SAVAGE DRAGON #148
What did the
iFanboy
community think?
Pulls
Size: pages
Price: 3.50
Free Comic Book Day has come and gone; and there are some interesting indie series to try out. Stuff like Mercy Sparx or FCHS should be on everyone’s radar. While other mainstream comics like Blackest Night #0 made us all giddy for the event. There was one comic that came out that I was actually more interested in then the others: Savage Dragon #148. Now this issue is out for the masses and they got to pay….but is it worth the price of admission?
The quick answer is: Hell no.
The long answer: Hell no, but there’s a good reason not to pick this series up. This series, which started in the 1990’s; is pretentious crap at it’s best. It’s a testament to just how bad the 90’s were to the comic book industry. First we got to get away from the overly long and boring look into the past of Savage Dragon. It’s ment for first time readers to go in and get used to the universe of Savage Dragon. But what it does is raise more questions then answers. I was suspicious the time Ron said issue #145 was a great jumping on point…So in the span of 3 issues Larsan has made two issues a jumping on point. If the last jumping on point was as convoluted as this jumping on point issue; I feel sorry for the readers. Cause they had to read two issues of recapping a series they should already know what has happened.
Everything else after the origin stuff is just plain uninteresting. The diaologue is long winded and hammy at best. We got to hear more about Dragon’s origins and suddenly care about his kids being kidnapped. Then suddenly this turns into a Daredevil origin cause we have to explain why the hell this character is around to begin with. Something about evil people freezing them or something….I dont know it was way to boring to care about. Finally you got some sloppy fighting and pacing in this issue. First moment Dragon/Daredevil is fighting in the air; next their drinking in a bar, oh no’s kids are kidnapped, Daredevil’s orphan kids try to find Dragon’s kids, *gasp* it’s you!, sloppy fight scene, end of issue! I love it that they have a ‘shocking’ conclusion to this when it’s a character reveal we wouldnt know much about…except for the sloppy origins we got at the beginning of this. I’m not even gonna go into the sloppy, and pre-school art that Larsan provides in this issue.
So here’s why you might like this comic. If your a fan of really bad 90’s comic; like other Image books at the time or X-Men comics. This is the comic for you! Bad action scenes, convoluted storytelling where it doesnt matter anyways cause the fighting is more important, and very bad art. How this pretentious relic of a comic has survived to almost 150 issues is astonishing to me. In an era where most comics are trying to move forward into the relams of storytelling and art; Savage Dragon is stuck in time when comics were a death trap. Avoid this series at all cost.
Art: 1 - Poor
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Oh, man… I can’t wait ’til Ron reads this…
I didn’t think it’d take the "What’s wrong with comics, Savage Dragon as an example" article so much time to get published… Better late than never.
I don’t understand how this book is pretentious at all.
To each their own, however.
@kwisdumb: It’s written like ‘Oh look how important Dragon is!’ Larsan is writing like Savage Dragon is the greatest character in the history of comics. So that means he can do whatever he wants in this series.
@TNC: Isn’t he being able to do whatever he wants a good thing? I don’t mean to be a dick, I’m just not following you here. I can definitely understand why someone wouldn’t like SD, but I’m not sure that I understand your reasoning.
There just seems to be….I dont know….some type of smugness when reading this.
I’m sorry I know I’m not explaining myself well; I tend to do that. But I just found the writing to be arrogent and just like a flashback into the bad 90’s comics. This comes across as a jumping on point when I got this at FCBD; it wasnt anything like that at all.
I’m getting the impression you are not above writing reviews with the objective of stirring the poop in the bucket.
@TNC: i totally agree with your description of the book as pretentious crap.
this should be a simple fun comic, it’s called Savage Dragon and it’s about a green dude with a finn on his head. Instead the reader is subjected to ill-formed opinions ham-fisted into a superhero comic. the writer isn’t creating something of worth here, he is just indulging self-congratulatory bullshit. EG: as the writer struggles to decide which presidential canidate to vote for so does teh character. FUCK THAT, write a friggin comic. That might have been the whole differentiating factor of this book form the other original image titles but it does make it good
You know what? that has been going on for years. About 7 years ago a mate of mine, who was 17 at the time, wrote to the Savage Dragon letter’s page. Not only did this letter get printed but it was quoted verbatim by a character in the book. NOW that friend is older he can not believe anyone could take his teen august ridden whining seriously. that’s the level of insight we’re talking about here.
@Kwisdumb: it’s just my opinion but in this case creative freedom is not a good thing.
Creative freedom is always a good thing. Whether or not it leads to good things is the question.
Personally, I think it does. I really enjoy this book. I find it inventive, fun, and a labor of love. The stories are just a fun romp. The whole political thing just adds a pinch of realism. I also love Larsen’s art style.
I’m not saying you can’t hate this book, go right ahead. If it doesn’t work for you, that’s fine. But please don’t say creative freedom is not a good thing. As long as there is somebody out there that appreciates what the artist is doing, they should be allowed to do their own thing.
Well this is my first ever issue of reading Savage Dragon. I’ve never read a previous issue, nor have I gone out and read the trades. I just heard so much how this was a great series and how it can be a great jumping on point no matter what issue.
What I got instead of that, was an issue at the end of an arc and has to cram in about 12 years of character history in a couple of pages. I’m sorry that’s just not good writing. Then the rest of the book is just a convoluted mess cause Larsan has to somehow get the reader to understand everything Dragon has done up to this point….and also golden age Daredevil!
I just think in this instance, Larsan shouldnt have been smug about this issue and make this a true jumping on point. I mean the way ron talks about this book, or other ifanbase members, make me believe this has a wonderful creative touch. Instead I just got a bad action comic. So I’m sorry if I suggested Larsan shouldnt do anything creative, that is wrong. He should be allowed to do whatever he wants (I mean that one issue where apparently every page is a day gone by sounds interesting). But for this instance, especially for FCBD, it shouldve been like….like what Dynamo 5 #0 issue was! Just a quick random fight by Dragon and a text explaining his entire history….not an end of a 3 issue arc.
I think I pretty much agree with you, TNC. I mean, I still don’t find it pretentious, but I might have a very different perception of that word. I was more replying to Edward’s statement that creative freedom is not a good thing in some cases.
This is my fourth issue of Dragon ever. Personally, I think Larsen puts enough in each issue where it can stand on its own. I didn’t even know this was the conclusion of a 3 part arc without seeing it on the title/credits page. At the same time, I think the 13 year history of the character shoved into the beginning of the book was a little much. Nobody needs to know about alternate dimensional craziness. I think your views are really valid, and I agree that this could have been much better as a jump-in issue if they stuck more to the basics.
That said, if you don’t like it, you don’t like it. I can’t stand the idea of Deadpool or Punisher, but I would never say that the writers of those series should haave their creative freedom limited so that I could enjoy them more. There are clearly people that enjoy those characters, and more power to you! Just please don’t tell me that an artist needs to have his freedom reduced to suit your interests when he’s clearly satisfying mine (innuendo, anyone?). Now, if nobody was enjoying this book, then I could see an argument maybe for some editorial control or for Larsen to switch careers. But I’m really enjoying this book, and so are others, so I don’t see the point.
Again, this is directed towards Edward’s comments, not TNC’s, and I apologize if I sound too ranty or flamey or whatever. It just irks me when people say an artist needs to be limited. I love all of you, I swear!
I’ll be the loyal opposition here and say I love Savage Dragon. I like that Larsen is putting himself and his opinions about the world in the character. At least he’s open and honest about it. If there’s any writer out there who says he doesn’t put his own world view into his writing, then he/she’s lying.
I think this comic is the antithesis of pretension. Pretension means "the claim to quality". Just because Larsen’s been doing his own thing in his own little corner of the universe for 150 issues doesn’t mean he claims it’s the most important thing you will ever read. I can name a lot of comics being shoved down our throats from the big two that can claim the crown of pretension, whether that be the fault of the creators themselves or from the big marketing machines that tell you over and over that this is IMPORTANT.
If you don’t like big fights and randomness for the sake of randomness, OK. This book is probably not for you. But, this is and always has been Larsen’s love letter to Jack Kirby and that era of comics where exposition was paramount and you read thought bubbles and were OK with that. I sound like an old man now (Get off my fun lawn, cynics!). So, I’ll stop.
Just one last thing. I read through my first issues of the first line of Image Comics a little while ago. Savage Dragon, for all it’s ups and downs, can be described, at the very least, as one thing: consistent. Changes happen in the universe, but the tone has been very consistent throughout. And you couldn’t have that in another book where creative teams change more than I change my socks. That’s a good thing, right?
No I understand Rusty, and those are good points. I dont believe I said people are crazy on liking this series….or anything else like it. If I sounded like that, then I’m sorry to the fans who do like this series. I think it’s a bad comics because it harkens back to the 90’s. Some people loved this comic and didnt think it was one of the bad series of the 90’s. That’s understandable, I havent read older issues of this so I cant say if this title has always been bad.
If you, or ron, or anyone else likes the book; more power too you. Cause you are finding more entertainment out of this then me. But for my money, this is not a series worth getting into….for me. If my review made people not pick this series up; I got no power over that. But hopefully some, or a lot of people thought of picking this series up even if this was a negative review.
@hawaiianpunch: That’s a good argument for Dragon. Maybe….and it’s a big maybe…I’ll find early issues/trades and try to get into this. There’s definitely a Kirby influence in this comic. I mean just look at the cover, Kirby dots everywhere.
But again; if this was considered a jumping on point for an issue then it was false advertising. It was convoluted for me to read and it just felt like everything that’s wrong in the comic industry today. Where fighting is more important then story; and if characters have to talk it’s long winded and means nohing in the long run.
I totally respect anyone’s opinion over this comic; cause it’s been around for so long. It had to have done something right to last 12+ years. But as a single issue and a way to jump into a series; this failed for me on every level…..I’m shocked Ron hasnt come in here yet and kicked my ass. 🙂
see now! this is what i’m talking about. a little gravel in your guts and spit in your eye. it’s an interesting converstaion, baby!
re: the whole complete creative freedom debate. Use the early 90s image comics era as a reference. Craetive freedom there lead to some of the worst comics ever published…. which were still being read in large numbers. Ipso facto, creative freedom not always the greatness thing around
@rustyautoparts: i DID use the very specific example of this title. I never said creative freedom was a bad thing in general. that little point got lost in your ranting. i’m also pretty sure i said that IN THIS CASE it was just my opinion.
but having said that, i do enjoy your posts Rustyautoparts and value your opinion
@edward: I think we agree for the most part, we’re just hung up on syntax. I totally agree that complete creative freedom can lead to shit comics. However, just like the ’90s, I think it is self correcting. If your output is bullocks, then who’s going to buy it? So yeah, although creative freedom can lead to unsatisfactory result, if nobody buys it, it will go away. I would much rather have the market filled with creative crap that I can avoid than micromanaged creativity stifling JLA. A little guidance can help a writer, especially rookies, but I like to err on the side of freedom.
In this specific case, I happen to enjoy what Savage Dragon is apparently shitting out, so to me, I’m thinking his creative freedom is a good thing. Those that want to buy it, buy it. Those that don’t, don’t. If not enough people think it’s good, it disappears, no creative stifling needed!
Also, I may disagree with you sometimes, but I enjoy these gravelly spitgut conversations. You’re a beautiful person! *wipes tear from eye*
@hawaiian: Oh I dont mind what type of comic this could’ve been. I’m for reading either just talking heads or big dumb fun. Maybe I did get a little carried away and made this turn into a ’90’s discussion’ then of Savage Dragon #148. But overall I felt the action was poorly drawn, the art was bad to begin with, the story was boring….that’s basically the keywords ‘bad and boring’. Different strokes for different folks though.
…. but, see, i just gave an ACTUAL example were complete creative freedom wasn’t a good thing. it had an ACTUAL negative impact on the comics industry in the early 90s despite large numbers of readers, not just a single perspn .
SO is complete creative freedom is not ALWAYS a good thing.
TNC, I have read every issue of Savage Dragon and I pretty much agree with your assessment of this issue. I’ve actually re-read the entire series over the last couple months and I am struck by what I consider the different phases of the book. The first 20 issues are pretty standard early 1990s Image stuff. 21-75 are just good original stuff that really seems like it is Erik Larsen, just stuff he seems to be really excited about. This isn’t to say Larsen isn’t thrilled to do every issue, but there was just an energy and excitement to this "phase" that really stood out to me. Then issues 75-100 are a bold change of direction in which Larsen really models the style after Kirby silver age books. It’s a fun but desolate scene but the Silver age story telling style is just a marked change. Issues 101-135 or so are really disjointed and confusing, mainly because of the lateness and how that influence the "real time" Larsen goes for. Issues 136-current are a little more coherent, but seem to really be a throw back to the Golden Age stuff Larsen has recently been excited for, and so quite different from what I’ve become accustomed to reading.
In any case, TNC, Edward, anyone: even though the current issues aren’t great, issues 21-75 were FANTASTIC. Both the story telling and the art have been pretty weak as of late (I think), but because I’ve loved the characters for 150 issues, even a low point is still intriguing enough for me to stick around.
I definitely recommend any of the first 75 issues, but especially 21-75. Issue 29-30 (I think?) where Dragon is in Hell and watches God fist fight Satan for his soul is a hoot. One of the best villains is Hitler, who has had his brain preserved and is placed in a gorilla’s body who then steals an Iron Man type armor and crams his body into is also one of the best characters I’ve read in the last 15 years.
I’d like to add, however, that as far as being a jumping on point, the recap page says "Previously in Savage Dragon…Dragon’s kids were kidnapped and he went looking for them."
Then we find Dragon beating up bad guys in order to find out where his kids are. Then he’s joined by another hero named Daredevil and the go to find the kids, even explaining who Daredevil is and why he’d help Dragon. Pretty straight forward stuff.
Again, it may not be a story that tickles your fancy, but I don’t see where any confusion or difficulty would be in picking up this issue.
@Andrew: Well I do feel bad for giving such a negative review to something a lot of people love….If I can ever find early trades of this series, I’ll try it out. But arent they hard to find? I remember when Ron talked about it on a vault show the first trade is a bit hard to find or maybe even out of print.
I honestly don’t know how hard the trades are to find because I have read it in issues. I looked at amazon, though, and see that you can get some used trades of any of the first 15 volumes for pretty cheap. the sure don’t seem plentiful, though. Again, while the first couple volumes establish characters, I’d take a stab and say that starting with volume 5 or so is where the series really took off for me. Looking at the covers and just guessing at the content, volumes 6-14 are top notch. Looking at instocktrades.com, volumes 6 and 7 are some of my favorite stories.
There are also volume 1 and 2 of the "Archives" which are Essential style black and white. Now, I think the "essential" black and white style is much better for Kirby and Ditko pencils than 1990s Image style pencils, but the stories are still very good. I think that Volume 2 is right where I’d recommend people start. I picked up a copy of volume 2 for $4 at a store going out of business and I’ve been meaning to mail it to Conor since he’s recently been picking up Savage Dragon. Maybe if I get around to sending it to him and he gets around to reading it, maybe we’ll hear what he thinks on the podcast one day!
Also, I wanted to mention that the art gets really good about issue 20-100, then he starts changing it more to what it currently is. The current art isn’t terrible, but I really like the art around 1999-2000 much more than the current 2009 stuff. So if the art put you off, don’t let that hinder you from looking at the earlier stuff.
@TNC: stop flip-flopping. i don’t feel bad. i don’t like the book