iFanboy Video Podcast
Show Notes
If you read mainstream superhero comic books right now you probably identify yourself as a Marvel person or a DC person. And you might even vociferously (and mostly irrationally) cling to that identification.
In examining the differences between the two companies, the first and most important places to start is with the creators. Who are making these books and which company has the stronger talent pool? Where do the big books from Marvel and DC stand right now? How do the major lines compare in terms of quality? They both publish superhero comics featuring very similar characters, stories, and themes. At the end of the day, aren’t Marvel and DC Comics just the same thing?
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Still not a fan of the digital zoom ins; just takes me out of the show. Sorry, great show, none the less! Even though I started out a Marvel guy, I definitely think it’s DC’s time now.
I agree. The zoom ins were really distracting. Enjoyed the show though like always.
While I msotly pick up Marvel books I’ll admit that DC has been going really strong right now while Marvel has been up and down. I’m hopning Marvel will hop back up now with this upcoming Heroic Age. 🙂
Was that final debate scripted? It totally reinforced your stereotypical roles! Awesome show! And for the record…GO MARVEL!! 🙂
I can’t decide a side to take on this, I’m just gonna say that each company has its flaws that are noticeable Jusice League and….I honestly can’t think of a marvel book so my comment is void and marvel wins. *sigh*
I’m almost afraid to watch this lol
I was happy to hear some love for the Rucka run on Wolverine!
Both companies have some great books, and some clunkers. Historically I am a Marvel guy, but DC has the crown with Detective for now. Maybe Hickman can change my mind soon.
I hardly look at who the publisher is when I pick up my books.
I go for whatever looks good no matter if it is DC or Marvel. It tends to be more DC and Vertigo as i’m not a huge fan of the X-books, but there are plenty of Marvel books I do love.
I hope this show dosn’t forget wednesday comics!
and here we go!
what about red robin and batgirl?
also, before the flame wars begin, I would just like to say that the episode was very nicely edited.
Nice show guys. I’ve been sick of the whole "Marvel vs DC" thing for decades – the only question worth asking is whether an individual book (or run) satisfies you or not. I know this argument won’t go away but I really REALLY wish it would.
I loved this episode. Normally, I don’t comment on episodes, but this one gave me a lot to think about.
First, allow me to say how impressed I was with both Conor and Ron. Most of the time you see ugly arguments over this issue, but they were able to get their points across, give their opinions and even got a few laughs out of each other.
Second, I agree. At the end, they’re the same thing. There’s nothing wrong with friendly rivalry. It makes it more fun. But, I remember Quesada gleefully saying he loves the Marvel Vs DC feud; that he doesn’t want someone to be in between. I know he was saying that from a business standpoint, as he seems to be a loyal Marvel fan from when he was a child. Unfortunately, a lot of us aren’t like that. Sorry, Quesada.
Me, I’m a DC fan. I’m also a Superman fan. But, I have checked out Marvel every now and then. Mostly, I was a fan of West Coast Avengers and Hawkeye. I was one of the many people who checked out Secret Invasion. I didn’t enjoy it. I tried the Ultimate line. I liked a few titles here and there. I absolutely love the Noir line and I’m sad they don’t get the attention they deserve on that one.
For me, I enjoy DC because while they may not have all the "talent" Marvel has, they have such creativity with their stories. Look at James Robinson and Geoff Johns. They can take someone or something from a very old and obscure comic and weave it into the fabric of their stories that it seems natural and interesting while still keeping the integrity of the story flowing. Look at Starman. If Starman were to be written at Marvel, that book wouldn’t have lasted 10 issues. Up until recently, DC took pride in their legacy characters.
But, Ron and Conor said it best. At the end of the day, they’re the same thing. It’s all entertainment! Those who sadly stick to just one company out of some insane loyalty are really missing out on some interesting stuff. I don’t always agree with Marvel, but they do have some books I like to check in on. And, for the most part, I’ve enjoyed giving something new a try.
Both are good enough overall, but I give it to DC because Marvel is more obnoxious. Marvel seems to make editorial and publishing decisions–sometimes–based not on creativity so much as what abstract ideas and familiar phrases can be marketed to death. (I patiently await "Secret X-Men" and "Infinity Avengers".)
I pretty much prefer DC solely for not ripping me off with $4 22 page books and affordable trades. Also they take more risks, have Vertigo and Wildstorm, and tend to be less obnoxious PR wise.
Miyamoto brings up an interesting point in the PR department. Now, I want to give credit to Marvel in that they know how to market themselves. Unfortunately, whenever Joe Quesada is on television promoting Marvel, I never have that urge to say "I have to pick up a Marvel book!" More times than not, I have a "This guy sure is patting himself on the back" reaction. It doesn’t help Quesada loves controversy. As a business standard, that’s not a bad idea as any publicity is good publicity and whatever is in the news will get you attention and maybe sales.
However, the things that really stick out for me are marketing campaigns like "Send in x amount of covers from DC and we’ll give you a rare variant cover for Siege # 3" or cheap shots like "Marville" or the ever popular story of Quesada blowing up at this year’s SDCC when some fans called him out on the plants he had in the audience (That’s a story that is well travelled so who knows how "bad" it really was) but things like that turn me off to Marvel as it comes off as one man trying anything and everything to say "We’re better than that other company"
Marvel knows how to market themselves. The problem is, just because you’re in a movie or you’re on TV (Seriously…with the amount of comics shown on Heroes being MOSTLY Marvel, you’d have thought they had some stock in that show) depending on who is heading that PR and their attitude can make someone decide whether or not to pick up a comic.
miyamotofreak pretty much summed up my reasons for being a primarily DC guy at the moment. Sensible pricing, wider spectrum of genres, more professional and appealing PR wise and at the moment just generally better books.
I really disagree with the no mid-list at Marvel argument. The X-Men line, the Hulk line, Daredevil, these are all existing strongly as the mid-list. I think Marvel’s received a lot of bad press in the last month or two for canceling things like SWORD and Doctor Voodoo plus the Deadpool Siege variant thing. I don’t think that should represent the content of the books.
I think one thing that causes a lot of polarity is that the top guys (writers) seem to have influence over which other writers come in. Either their friends or at least guys whose indie books are favorites of those top writers. at Marvel this is true the progression of Bendis to Brubaker to Fraction to Remender. Bendis also brought Hickman in. there’s the whole "X-Box Live Mafia" thing. I am not as familiar with the guys at DC, but I know you could draw a similar diagram of the top guys like Johns and Rucka having their circles of close guys around them. but the result here is that if you don’t like Bendis’ work, chances are you may not care for his friends. it’s completely logical from a fan standpoint.
also, did anyone bring up art in this comparison of each company? in that whole show I don’t think artists were mentioned at all in comparing the content. and art is at least 50% of the content.
Good show but I’m not a fan of the zooms either I’m afraid.
I’ve never been one to take much heed of Marvel vs DC or SNES vs Genesis type arguments. Surely the simple answer is that we should buy good comics irregardless of who publishes them. Those who fall strongly on either sides of these arguments for the most part only seem to embarrass themselves on forums.
For the most part, I grew up a Marvel kid. I read the X-Men, Avengers, FF, Spider-Man line of books from the mid to late 90s.
The only notable exception being Batman. Batman’s always been my favorite character thanks to the Timm cartoon, which has cemented the character in my mind. When I read Batman, it’s Conroy’s voice I hear to this day. And it was Batman that brought me back into comics with Loeb’s "Hush" run, and (more importantly) Brubaker’s often overlooked tenure on Detective, which ran at the same time.
Now, as an adult returning to comics, I see myself as a DC guy. However, I’m buying more and more Marvel comics, and I have a box full of DC that I don’t even know where to begin in terms of reading. So much so that I’m wondering where the line is.
I think I’m having my own Identiy Crisis. Here’s hoping I don’t meet Dr. Light on the Watchtower.
-J.
I feel like josh is doing a panel moderating Ron Vs Conor haha
20 mins of agreement with only 3 mins of fighting. Ehhh….
Wow this type of episode is like arguing who’s better, Tupac or Biggie? lol Two Titans to fight over! Which one’s the best? Who will remain victorious? MORTAL KOMBAT! lol
I grew up a DC kid reading and watching Superman’s and Batman’s adventures but this week I’m only pulling Detective while I’m getting both Weapon X and Amazing Spiderman from the Marvel side, as well as attempting to buy the oversized Iron Man hardcover through Midtown Comics dot come (the transaction won’t go through for some dumb reason) so maybe there is more Marvel coming into my near future??!! Morrison’s Batman & Robin is definitely still my favorite book EVERY month Phillip Tan or no Phillip Tan!!
I tend to agree with the idea of marvel seemingly is coming down off a high while DC is climbing, I think the success of the heroic age will probably be deciding factor, I mean even if brightest day ends up a bust dc has enough momentum to carry them through vs marvel who needs shrug off this air that they are running on fumes now. I think this will be an interesting year to look back on at the end and see who came out on top, maybe both will?
Okay, so here’s how you guys are wrong!…
Kidding, Honestly a really enjoyable show. Loved hearing your thoughts on where you believe the companies stand at the moment as far as talent and stories are concerned. When I got back into comics about seven years ago, I went for my favorite characters, not knowing where they were at, who was writing them or what had been going on. I picked up "Wolverine" and "Batman". From there I just kept picking up more and more, for me it didn’t matter what company they were from. For a while there it was mostly Marvel over DC (The "X" books taking up the majority of my buying). But I soon finished watching JLA and JLU, I felt like I had a better grasp of who some of the DC characters were, so I started picking up more. Around this time last year I was picking up all DC and only Bendis written Marvel (with the Spider-Man Trade here and there). I find now seven years later, I follow writers more then characters. I’ll always want to see who’s working on Batman or Wolverine and give those a chance, but now I’m far more interested in the stories that can be told from great writers and artist, then just following a character through good or bad. And with this next round of DCBS, I’ll be picking up more Marvel then I have in years (with the new Avengers line, and the Astonishing line) and I can’t wait!
no deadpool = dc wins.
Marvel to me is like watching the National League. It’s all very entertaining but…
I actually have to completely disagree with ron, josh, and conor on one point…….I HOPE AND PREY FOR THE DAY THAT BENDIS IS NO LONGER WRITING THE AVENGERS i mean the mans been on the book for what 62 issuses plus the issuses hes done on mighty and theyve done what exactly? the whole point of the avengers is to have a team take on one threat that no one hero could take alone and thevye spent more time fighting each other than any actual threat. i mean think about his whole grand plan for the avengers was to have a skrull invasion and there was no satisfaction in the payoff to that. but when u read his ultimate spidey its a breathe of fresh air i mean on the avengers it takes that man 6 issues to tell a story that a competent writer could do in 2 and in the regular marvel U he hasnt done any thing good since he left daredevil……..5 YEARS AGO
It does seem like an unfair argument to make for DC vs. Marvel b/c of the fact that they are the Titans of the comics & entertainment industries & also b/c they are so very similar in superheroes & quality. How about a much more interesting & fairer argument like Dark Horse vs. Image Comics? I know Dark Horse leads Image in sales but Kirkman? McFarlane? These guys truly revolutionized comics the stories & the business! So how about it iFanboys? Image or Dark Horse? My pick is Image b/c I love Spawn, Astounding Wolf-Man, Phonogram, Hickman’s work, & of course Fell & also b/c it seems to me that Dark Horse just can not really generate much original work these past few years with Buffy & Star Wars comics being just comics based on other media properties & Hellboy is probably the only huge character that they have, to be a corporate symbol, much like DC with Superman, Marvel with Spider-Man, & Image Comics with Spawn.
I thought Josh hit the nail on the head for me. When I started reading comics, I’d follow creators (writers). They’d start writing a book I like, ie. Frank Miller was writing Daredevil for Marvel, then went to DC for Dark Knight. Alan Moore was writing Swamp Thing, and much later went to Independents. Chris Claremont was writing X-Men, and John Byrne was writing Superman (and art work for X-Men & Fantastic Four). Once these guys either moved to a new title I’d sort of follow them around. Granted I might pick up a spare title along the way as well.
So once I got past the publilsher imprint, I just tried following good writers or artist, and the rest fell into place. But also like you said, they tend to both steal ideas from each other. Also a lot of the guys above have gone from comics, so after that, I tended to do the same, find a good team (writer/artist) and find something that appeals to my interest.
@ericwilder – National league is the superios league. AL just keeps the dinasaurs who can’t field their position still in the game. BTW, I think DC is more like the National league, pure, classic.
I think if you count Vertigo, Wild Storm, etc as DC, DC would win hands down. But if not, it’s head to head.
Top 3 Marvel Books:
FF, Spider-Man, Avengers
Top 3 DC books:
Detective Comics, Green Lantern, Batman & Robin
Why does DC take so long to put out trades? Marvel seems to be much better at this.
Some very interesting and poignant topics raised here. Definitely the most hard-hitting and tense episode yet. I’m sweating just from watching it.
I like comic books. All comic books. At the moment, I’m reading more DC though. That’s a complete 180 degrees from where I was just a year and a half ago, which still surprises me. That being said, I have no loyalty to either one. If a book is good, I’ll read it.
Good show guys. I would have preferred more fighting and even some name calling, but oh well.
I expected (and demand) mud wrestling.
Great show. I honestly can’t take sides in the argument because I don’t care enough about it. I used to be solely loyal to Marvel, but I was then turned on to DC. After that, I think my loyalties to both pretty much dissolved. I’ll collect any title as long as its good, well with the exception of X-titles. Most of them have been crap for a while, but yet I seem to keep collecting them. So I guess my only true loyalties are to the X-Men.
@vadamowens: Gotta agree with you there. Fraction’s had some good ideas but seems to be hamstrung by the need to tow the line with the big changes. Too many unnecessary X books for my liking.
Until the Elseworlds line comes back, I’m undecided on which is better.
I’ve followed Avengers and Green Lantern since they started out, and I’m tired. I don’t want to have to sit through Brightest day and the next event for Avengers, because Seige won’t end here.
I’m just tired. I’m gonna read the trades from this point out, and I’m just gonna pick off random books on the shelf.
@ AmirCat Not that it matters, but for the shear joy of debate. While the NL may (or may not) be superior in skill, DC is definitely the AL. Reason, rivalries. Anyone, fan or not, knows Batman’s arch nemesis is the Joker. And would gladly watch the two duke it out. Just as anyone, fan or not, knows the Red Sox and Yankees are eternal combatants, and would watch them go toe-to-toe. Not that I’m sugesting who’s the Joker and who is Batman (though you know who you are). Is it getting close to spring?
@amircat When marvel immediately releases trades after the arc, it undermines the retailers trying to sell the rest of their single issues. Now, I doubt that this is the reason that DC does this, but I kind of wish that Marvel would wait a little longer as well.
@vadamowens: The retailers who also sell the trades?
@vadamowens-What responsibility does Marvel have to your LCS? Kelloggs has no responsibility to your grocery store. GM has no responsibility to its dealerships.
Shouldn’t the onus be on the retailers to order more responsibly? The producer’s job is to produce. The retailer’s job is to retail.
here’s a good difference: DC builds lines around single characters. the Batman line, the Superman line. Marvel builds it around groups of characters, so there is more reason for multiple books if there are a multitude of characters and possible stories. Avengers line, X-Men line, even with two Hulk books, each one is about a different Hulk. Amazing Spider-Man is the anomaly. and yes, DC have tried lately to diversify the Bat-books and Super-books, but we’ll see how much longer that lasts.
Marvel may have more books, but DC has better books. Marvel just likes to capitalize on the success of a big book by making 30 other books under that same line that don’t live up. DC is the champion!
DC (I feel) handle there events a lot better than Marvel. I know it’s been said on iFanboy before, but with a DC event book if you only really want to buy the event you don’t need to buy the tie in books. The opposite (minus Siege so far) is my feeling on Marvel. The prime example is Secret Invasion.
I feel Marvel handles there team books much better than DC. The Avengers family of books is a prime example as compared to the Justice League line.
Marvel vs. DC
Winner: The fans.
@conor Yes. I’ve talked to all of the local retailers and several others at shows that I’ve went to and they’ve had difficulty selling individual issues because people are waiting for the trades. Sure, they’re ordering less comics as a result, but that leaves out those that want the original comics themselves. I figured it affected over-all sales, but maybe I’m wrong. Look, I’m just telling you what I heard:)
@mister j Yes they do have a responsibility to retailers because they are the ones selling the product for them. If GM makes a shitty product, then it makes it more difficult to sell cars and trucks, so I’m not really sure where you’re going with that one.
I don’t mind that DC takes a while to put out trades. I liken it to movies. Say a movie has it’s run in the theatres, then, a week or two later it comes out on DVD. For those of us who paid to see the movie in the theatres, we wonder why it was so important for us to go see it in the theatres when you’re just going to put it out on DVD a few weeks later.
The same with comics, if I buy Luke Cage Noir, and I have to wait four months to get the whole story as opposed to when the trade comes out shortly after and someone can get the entire story in one shot, you wonder what the point is.
I like that trades take a while to come out because you have a chance to either think about the story and you’re excited for the day it comes out, or you read a good story, move on and suddenly the trade comes out and you’re excited to read it again! I’m a big fan of the Starman Omnibus editions. I love those. I have all the single issues, I have the trades, but when an omnibus edition comes out, it’s an event for me. I have to go to the store to buy it. Yes, they take a while, but they’re more special because of the wait.
@Jose Exactly
@vadamowens-That is completely incorrect. The retailers are NOT selling the product for the publishers. The retailers are selling the product for themselves. The publishers make their cash off of the sale to the retailers, NOT off of the secondary sales to the public. There is no ‘kick-back’ to the publishers. As such, the publishers do not any such responsibility once the product moves.
The ‘quality of product’ aspect that you list in response to my GM argument is completely misplaced. We are not talking about product quality, only about ‘flooding the market.’
Whoops, I meant, ‘once the product moves out of the publisher’s hands.’
Well, that show’s my ignorance to the whole process. Thanks for enlightening me…
For me it’s DC rigth now
Ficken DC! Whoo! Yeah, bitches!
As to who is "on top" right now. I will go with DC. Simply because they give titles a little longer than Marvel to grow. Allow me to give an example
When I heard the interview with Rick Remender about Doctor Voodoo, I was intrigued. I had a basic knowledge of the character, but Remender’s discussion and talk of a long term plan for the character along with his details about how we’d visit a lot of the magical corners of the Marvel Universe got me interested in reading the series.
When DC solicited The Mighty, I was drawn to it. I picked up the first two issues and loved the slow, menacing and building pace of it. The artist changed and I didn’t even notice.
Now, this is where I’ll say DC is on top of Marvel. The Mighty was a risky move in that it had similarities to another title, but it was allowed to thrive and tell the story it needed to. It got 12 issues and it kept the pace and mood it had from issue one. Marvel slammed down Doctor Voodoo after a few issues. One of the many complaints I’ve heard about Marvel over the past few years is that titles outside of their brand don’t have their chance to shine. Captain Britain and the MI-13 is a prime example. DC gave books like The Mighty, Manhunter, and even the "Red Circle" characters a chance to gain an audience. Marvel doesn’t. It’s kind of hard to discover something when it’s always taken away from you.
Great show. I’m with Josh, in that I follow creators, not a publishers. A good book is a good book, it doesn’t matter who puts it out, as long as it isn’t Zenescope.
I would be interested to see someone adept at body laguage study this video. Conor is constantly scratching at his knees, while Ron kneads the back of his neck. It was amusing to watch.
Regarding LCSes being angry about trades coming out too fast? Our store, and the four non-chain stores in our vicinity haven’t seen a huge drop in the amount of people who buy issues. And the little drop is offset by the huge rise in graphic novel/trade paperback or hardcover sales. Any LCS having problems with selling issues has only to cut their issue order, and raise their trade orders. After a bit of a learning curve (our owner hasn’t read comics regularly since the Carter administration), we have a pretty good take on issue and trade orders. The possible exception being the eight million extra copies of Image United #1 taking up shelf space. If Marvel wants us to send those in for Howard the Duck variant covers, we’ll take them.
I was so prepaired to make a huge post on this. You guys though, did such an amazing job covering everything….I have nothing to say.
…Okay not really I do have a few points. But first off this was a very good and intelligent discussion. Even if some of you guys have a tendancy to favor a certain company, you stayed fair and balanced for the most part.
To me I think the biggest thing is that, as you guys mentioned, are the ‘big’ writers for Marvel. Bendis reached a peak for me and I can’t stand his writing anymore. Same for Brubaker, Fraction is not very good in my eyes, and I find the cosmic angle to be very boring now. The mid-level talent don’t seem to be fairing much better either. The great acquistions with Remender and Gillen seem to went no where. Writers who should be florishing; like Van Lente, Pak, Aaron, and a few others; are stuck with doing the same titles or lesser known books. Then you have them just canceling titles without even letting them wet their feet more.
DC…..is nothing like that to me. In fact they seem to be the complete opposite. They do have the big writers, as you said. But they also let smaller known writers work on bigger projects a bit more then usual. Gates, Tomasi, and Bedard would never get the same exposure as DC gave them if they went to Marvel. They also seem to be getting great new artists every month; Adrian Sayf will be a big name in the future. Finally they also let mid-low level books stay a lot longer. Power Girl, Batgirl, Red Robin, The Web, and a few others have lasted longer then they would have anywhere else.
Maybe Ron is right, we are sorta at an impass right now. Marvel is going downhill, while DC is going up to me. But they seem to be at the same level and only have a few things to make them different from each other. I think, give it a few months or another year, DC will end up being the dominate company once again. If Marvel decides to be this stubborn to new(ish) writers and their readers at this rate.
I think it’s interesting because as a DC fan for so long, I’ve had to hear people pound their chest about how great and realistic Marvel is. As an adult, I’m happy to see and know that all things are cyclical as the guys said. I’m also happy to know that good writing knows no company. I enjoyed the Ultimate line because they were well written comics. I enjoy the Noir line because they’re a fun take on a current concept. Yes, I’m a die-hard DC fan because it appeals to my tastes, but it’s always fun to see what else is out there.
Unfortunately, I still have my share of people telling me all about the great talent Marvel has, and somehow that gives them an opportunity to take a cheap shot at DC. Taking cheap shots at DC seems to be the easy thing to do these days. Whether you’re bashing Superman for being too much of a "boyscout" or you’re looking down your nose at the amount of titles they have right now or whatever reason you can com up with, there are people who aren’t just Marvel fans, but there are people who are DC haters to the bitter end. Those are the fans who make it tough for me to have fun conversations about comics with and they’re the fans Quesada loves.
I think here lately, quantity are equal, and Marvel might even be ahead as I gradually get into X-Men, but quality wise, I’d say about 7 of my top 10 would be DC, and that’s if you don’t include Vertigo.
Ron brought up an interesting point though that I now notice I’ve been doing. I always give DC books more of a chance to wow me (Azrael got 5, Superman got 4, etc) while Marvel books have to blow me away (Thor got 1 issue, Daredevil got 2, Moon Knight got 3 since the first one was so amazing)
@akamuu Thanks. I get I assumed a lot by thinking most other comic shops were dealing with the same thing.
conor said it best. It’s all about PR.
Branding is what’s at th heart of this.
Like Pepsi and Coke. The difference in the product is minimal but the branding is distinct.
However, DC has more "god-like" characters at it’s forefront than Marvel. DC has Supes, Wondy, GL, Batman and Flash. Bats is the odd one there. Marvel has more humans at it’s forefront, Spidey, Stark, Wolverine, Thor and Hulk. 3 and two.
I grew up with DC books so I tend to prefer those over Marvel in my stack each week because I love those characters. Last year as far as strength of what I was reading I had more Marvel books in my pull list but this year it’s flipped and I have dropped a lot of my Marvel books like Captain America, Dark Avengers, X-men. Not to say I am buying more DC books instead but the Marvel quality definitely is on the down swing right now I hope that changes because as a fan I want two strong companies that are putting out quality for me to purchase.
I resent the whole "DC Gods" moniker. Marvel has characters with just as much as, if not equal power, yet they don’t have this annoying label. DC has a lot of great characterization. It’s just, people want to dismiss it because Marvel seems to have the monopoly on "our characters are human beings". Unfortunately, it never seems DC will get out of this stupid name as people have placed that label on them, which prevents a lot of people giving them a try.
Yeah, I gave up caring a looong time ago. Now, I just like good comics, doesn’t matter to me who the publisher is or what petty feuds exist.
I know it’s been said, but scrap the zoom-ins. The quality of the image goes down, I presume because you’re just zooming in on a small area of a larger image. And more over, I like it when we can see the whole crew, because we get to see the reactions of the other two to what one person says.
If I were to choose a side I would have to choose DC over Marvel b/c of Blackest Night, which is like the greatest event comic EVER!!! And of course for the genius of Geoff Johns & the pure nostalgic joy I get when seeing Flash being brought back to popularity & respect once more just like with Hal Jordan the TRUE Green Lantern & once Brightest Day comes rolling around hopefully an Aquaman Rebirth may come, hell I hope they don’t stop there let’s have a Doctor Fate Rebirth, or even a Wonder Woman Rebirth since her comics have not been really good.
Just want to clear up something:
Gillen is not a Marvel exclusive writer. He has no contract as of yet with Marvel.
@Nawid: Did someone say he was?
@conor
TNC implied it.
I’m a Marvel fan all the way. I think iFanboy made some good points that weren’t talked about more, and here it is: Ed Brubaker has been dragging Marvel down now for 2 years. Fact. Captain America hasn’t been good since #26. Daredevil was never good with him on it. (Bendis gave him the 1st arc) It’s brought up twice during this video show, but never talked about directly. Those 2 titles have suffered the most.
The problem with his writing is this: His ideas are boring. He may write good dialogue, may pace and structure well. But it’s a snoozefest. Someone with a more exciting take needs to be brought in on his titles. Now I’m worried for "Secret Avengers" even though the Bendis backlashers will be saying it’s the best Avengers book despite it not being.
I want to like Brubakers books. As a Marvel fan, I want to like all the important books. I hope he can deliver now.
About the video. I don’t mind the zooms. It matters more what the discussion is, rather than the visual presentation. "The zoom’s take me out of it." Seriously? It’s not fiction, it’s a real discussion show.
I’ve been through every stage and on every side of this argument (or total non-issue, depending on my then-perspective).
When I was 4 or 7 and buying Mandrake the Magician or Flash Gordon, it was because I saw it on TV or in the Sunday funnies, and knew the character or property. But the comics could just as well be from Dell or Gold Key (and probably were bought in a 3-pack, where you couldn’t see the middle one, just the other two covers).
When I got a little older, I was following Batman and Tarzan, and bought some Doom Patrol and Legion of Super-Heroes comics, as well, because they had some of the same heroes in them. Sometimes a book like Marvel Super-Heroes could get my interest, too. I started to know who Joe Kubert, Dick Giordano and Neal Adams were.
When I was maybe 10 or 11, I stumbled upon a collection from like ’67-’72 or so. It was a big collection. They had it at a summer day camp, that was supposed to get kids out of the house. Me and another kid split it in half, put it all in order, and read almost all of it that summer. It was almost all Marvel, and almost all of the cream of the crop of the late Silver Age stuff: Avengers (50-100), Fantastic Four (ditto), almost all of the Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, SHIELD, Nick Fury, Daredevil and Black Widow from the same period. There must have been two hundred books there. I read half the pile in July, and the other half in August. In order. Ever since then, I’ve been a fan of putting together a long run on a book, and reading it in one concentrated period of reading. Or completely rejected that premise.
I got four comics for Christmas in 1972. All were Marvel. I was a Marvel guy for several years thereafter, but still bought the really good DC stuff occasionally. (Good meaning pretty to look at, at that stage.)
I started really connecting with creators that summer. I knew Dick Ayers from Don Heck, and whether or nor Sinnott was inking Kirby, when I was eleven. The Golden Age of Comics.
Then came the days of buying magazine-sized stuff at 7-Eleven, instead of the spinner rack at the drugstore. Savage Sword of Conan, early Epic, National Lampoon, High Times. Then for a few years I bought comics at the head shop: ZAP!, Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers, etc.
Then the 80s happened and I started going to an actual comic book store and discovered Kitchen Sink and EC and black-and-white comics and independents and the Comics Journal and bought little or no Marvel or DC at all.
Then the 90s happened and I bought lots of foil-embossed crap from both companies as well as a lot of garbage from some other guys.
After years of being the guy who just picks the very few books he wants off the racks or subscribes to obscure, irregular stuff, I finally decided to go a little mainstream again about four years ago. I got on some DC books that were re-numbering, and bought some Marvel books with "Civil War" on the covers. After many issues of Wonder Woman and New Avengers, Justice Society and Thunderbolts, I just cancelled the DC stuff and finally ordered enough Marvel to at least almost be able to keep up with the ridiculously complex "events" now favored by both companies (yes, I will be buying four Avengers-related titles, which is still not nearly enough).
Within another year or so, I will finally give up pamphlet comics and buy hardcovers and trades only. It’s the only way a poor fan can keep up anymore. Even faithfully buying a title for four years doesn’t necessarily mean you know everything about any character. Thank God the library can afford all of this stuff. I no longer can.
As Gail Simone leaves Wonder Woman and the Doom Patrol drops the Metal Men, my metonic cycle clicks over from six (where I was four years ago) to ten, and running back to Marvel I go. So Detective Comics and Green Lantern were the good ones, huh? Wednesday Comics had so much promise, but two things really ended it for me: 1) Woman Woman vs. Power Girl just did not do it for me (I would rather have seen a JRJR style fight with giant splash-page and double-spread Kirby-esque action), and 2) the quality of books like Doom Patrol, Magog, the Red Circle Line and now, even Justice Society. DC doesn’t do dark the way Marvel does dark. Because of the "totally fictional" setting and "traditional values" approach, it just looks ugly or schlock to me. And stories about Nazis are just boring, when told so plainly. Where’s the magic of old DC titles like Witching Hour and House of Mystery?
That said, I’m hoping this is the one time in my life Marvel doesn’t abuse my good nature. I liked Dark Avengers. Now to sit down and read the last four years worth of books. (Remember what I said about putting together really long runs of individual titles? I blame Kurt Busiek, for making mainstream comics seem so palatable again.) I’m hoping I’m not totally wrong.
Sorry for the long reply. After forty years, I guess I’m a Marvel fanboy after all (for now). As it is, there’s no more room to store any, so the love affair with hoarding may end soon. (I need to go buy another long-box for storage and a short-box for reading, and start reading some of these. I’ve still got 40 issues of Backlash that I never read.)
Cheers.
@player1 There’s a new House of Mystery book, have you tried that???
I don’t like the close ups. They really take me out of the show. Plus it looks like the quality of video goes down everytime close ups are used. Oh and DC is better.
@player1 That’s Right!! Those magazine sized Savage Sword of Conan totally captivated me, the art and BLOOD was phenominal!!
@muddi900 Found that out when I googled the title last night. Just ordered the trades from the library. Are you reading it? Any good? Thanks for the tip. Cheers.
@Jesse1125 Those were the days. I like a slightly larger page size for Conan, and some of the black-and-white art was really more timeless, at least to these eyes. Some of the BWS stuff was really awesome, too. My cousin had the poster, where Conan is standing in a puddle with dead bodies all around him, and there’s black ink representing blood splattered everywhere.
btw, I like the cover close-ups. I think I’m the only one.
P.S. Thank for reading that wall of text. I was pretty surprised to see that anybody had. Cheers.
@player1
Actually I am not. I should be. Willingham and Sturges are stinking up the JSA, but their vertigo work is solid.
Another, great DC series that no one talks about is Blue Beetle. Cancelled last year for god knows what reason, as it was doing ok sales wise. Last few issues were done by Sturges.
Oh and I think Dark Horse is reprinting those Conan comics. Its on my list.
Also, moonstone comics FTW!
And @kickass: The last 2 arcs of Bru’s Daredevil were pure brilliance. Got me into the character.
This was good, but I wish it had been a 2-parter. I think you guys had a LOT more to say.. just look how Ron was trying to jam it in at the end.
Also, I would like to buy the shirt or a shirt like the one Josh is wearing.
I love that shirt.
So, what you’re saying is I need to make you an offer you can’t refuse!