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Now that we’re three months into the DC reboot books have had a chance to show us their direction and quality level. Which books would you rank as your Top 5? Which is the surprise of the reboot to you? And if you want to and feel like being negative which book were you most disappointed by? Do you have a bottom 5?
My Top 5 is Batman, Animal Man, Green Lantern, Swamp Thing, and Aquaman. I was most surprised by Wonder Woman, which finds itself just outside of my Top 5 along with Action Comics. I was probably most disappointed by Red Hood and the Outlaws. I had big hopes for that book mostly because I think the character has a lot of potential to be played as an ideological foil to Batman, instead of an immature joke cracking frat boy.
Carmine (Ajacks7)
I think that I’m still formulating my thoughts on the books of the New DC Universe. I want to take a look at how things are going and really assess my feelings. But in the meantime… I shall play your game, Carmine!
O.M.A.C. #2 cover by Keith Giffen
My current Top 5 (In no particular order):
1) Batman
2) Action Comics
3) Wonder Woman
4) O.M.A.C.
5) Animal Man
This was actually really hard to compile. Much harder than I thought it would be. I kept looking at the master list and thinking, “Oh, that book! How can I forget that one??” And that’s the great news about the New DCU: there are so many great books that I could easily make my top 5 list into a top 10. No problem.
The surprise book:
O.M.A.C.
An easy one. It wasn’t on my radar when the line was first announced and I wasn’t all that excited about reading it. The first time I read it I liked it but didn’t love it. Then I started talking about the book to other people and found myself suddenly raving about it in the conversations. So I re-read the first issue and loved it and I loved the second issue even more. The most delightful surprise of the New DCU, bar none.
Most disappointed:
Mister Terrific.
Ugh. Double ugh. Mister Terrific is one of my favorite characters and I was psyched that he was going to be headlining his own book. And then I read the train wreck it. Oof. There were worse books that I read in the New DCU, but for the most part I was expecting them to be bad. This was a huge disappointment. HUGE.
Conor Kilpatrick
After seeing that Fear Itself (which you guys have panned) is Marvel’s best-selling title of the year, I got to thinking. It seems like there are some titles that have a wide disparity in the perceived quality of the book and its sales. Some critical darlings (Scalped) hardly sell at all, and some are like Fear Itself; selling well despite a lot of bad pub. What are some other books with this wide disparity and what accounts for this disparity in your opinion?
Scott from Orlando, Florida
Let’s see if I can get out of this without offending anyone.
First of all, this isn’t unique to comics, or even a recent thing. The masses have always gravitated to entertainment which is not necessarily the most high-minded or qualitatively better. It happened during Shakespeare’s time, and have you seen the box office returns on the Transformers movies? The rare instance when critical success and commercial success are co-mingled is mostly rare. Think about how many movies are as good as The Godfather AND made a shitload of money. Why is it? People are more interested in being entertained than being impressed, maybe?
Comics have a special way of going about this, especially in the realm of superhero books and the all-powerful canon. The majority of folks who are left reading comics (who could fit in my basement is all gathered together), want books that matter. If I were in less polite company, I would follow the word “matter” with the phrase “whatever the fuck that means.” They have proven this over and over and over and over and over again by their sales patterns. Marvel or DC tell readers and retailers that this thing coming up is the big one, and it’s going to “change everything” and the buyers fall for it every time. Sometimes it’s pretty good. Sometimes it’s very good and sometimes it’s not. Very often it’s not. But that’s according to my taste. There must be some reason people keep doing this over and over. They must be getting something out of it. They must be enjoying something about the process if not necessarily the books themselves. There’s got to be something to the hope that this time, the comics will deliver that feeling that they’re looking for. It seems to be a case of diminishing returns, as Fear Itself sold well, relative to how other books were selling however. The books that sell pretty well in the middle of the pack today would have been canceled outright 10 years ago, if that helps put things in perspective.
All I ever tell people to do is to buy books they like. If they’re different books than the ones I like, hey, good for them. If you liked Fear Itself, for whatever reason, good for them. I hope they got their money’s worth whatever that means to them. I could be upset that not a lot of people read Scalped, but look where it put Jason Aaron. Someone recognized that that guy could write his ass off. The series is going to get to finish, and I got to read it. There’s nothing to be upset about there.
Josh Flanagan
I recently finished watching Wolverine and the X-Men, which I found to be a pretty solid and entertaining cartoon. One thing that particularly caught my interest in the show was the characterization of Professor X, who was presented very much in the “iconic” Professor X fashion, i.e. a very patient, compassionate and inspirational mentor.
This stands in stark contrast to some of the recent events with Xavier in the current comics. It seems as though, ever since Ultimate X-Men, writers have enjoyed portraying Xavier as somewhat of a cold, calculating and manipulative “ends justify the means” type of leader. While I know this is all part of the ever-changing storytelling involved with mainstream comics, and comes with having all types of creators leaving their marks on characters, it’s still never really sat well with me. I grew up with the X-Men in the ’90s, both the comics and the Fox cartoon, and so my “vision” of the character falls very much with that whole “Xavier’s Dream” archetype.
So my question is this: Have you guys ever run into a situation where a character is written or portrayed in such an egregious fashion that is so at odds with how you envision them that it negatively effects your reading experience? If so, what are some examples? Or are you guys such hardened veterans that you can roll with it for the sake of the story?
Alan from Florida
First off, I have to admit that I haven’t watched any episodes of Wolverine and the X-Men (I’m not a big cartoon guy), but one of the things that always comes with these cartoon adaptations is that the characters are distilled down to a simpler version than the complex nuanced versions we read in the comics. In fact, that’s one of the reasons why I never really loved the X-Men cartoon in the 1990s, because they didn’t feel like the X-Men I was reading in the comics. I understand why they do this, but the comics just always felt better to me. So that’s probably why there’s a conflict for you in the portrayal of Xavier. That said, after reading the X-Men for as long as I have, I can’t say that agree with you that Xavier is a cold, manipulative character. Sure, there have been questionable things over the recent years, but he’s always been the more sensible side of the X-Men, in contrast to the violence of Magneto. But that’s just me.
Your question stuck out to me because I could think of very recent examples. Many readers have had a hard time grasping Wolverine recently, especially in the pages of Wolverine and The X-Men, saying that his decision to become a teacher of mutants was out of character and not like the Wolverine they knew and loved. Now, I understand why these readers feel this way, but here, I disagree. If you read what Jason Aaron has been doing with Wolverine over the past few years, he’s been progressing the character to this point, which is much different than a writer just coming on and changing how the characters acts and behaves. Now someone who hasn’t kept up with Wolverine’s adventures may feel like Aaron is changing things radically, but it truly is a progression and extension of the character, at least in my opinion.
But a recent case of a writer not quite getting the voice of character and presenting a story that left my head scratching was the portrayal of Spider-Man and Captain America in Fear Itself. Now, it’s been debated that the actions of Spider-Man (leaving the field of battle) were in direct influence of the Fear power happening in the story, but that’s a debate for another time (because if I didn’t get that while reading the story, rather through reading an interview with the writer, then it failed). For me, it was just the dialogue and many of the actions of both Spider-Man and Captain America that made me think that Matt Fraction didn’t quite grasp those characters. With characters like Thor and Iron Man, who he’s had experience writing, it was great. But going from the long history of great writers on Spider-Man and Ed Brubaker’s take on Captain America, at the end of Fear Itself, I was left feeling like those weren’t quite the characters I know and love. But who am I to say? This is all personal interpretation and perhaps someone else thought those portrayals were right on target with the character.
Ultimately, at the end of the day, you do have to just roll with it, as you say. Just because you don’t connect with or like how a character is presented one day, doesn’t mean that they’ll be back to how you know and love them the next. After all, they’re just stories.
Ron Richards
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All Star Western
OMAC
Animal Man
Frankenstein Agent of SHADE
Wonder Woman (whcih gets NO love)
My personal Top 5: all positions are debatable, except All Star Western…I love exploring the world of Dr. Arkham and old time Gotham. This book is entertaining, original, and offersjust enough of those fun little esoteric references we fanboys eat up like candy.
I’m officially adding Demon Knights to my top “6”
Biggest disapointment:
Blackhawks
My Top 5:
AQUAMAN
JUSTICE LEAGUE
OMAC (surprised too!)
DEMON KNIGHTS
BATMAN
Bottom 5:
MISTER TERRIFIC
GREEN ARROW
HAWK & DOVE
BLACKHAWKS
STATIC
Top 5
Animal Man
Swamp Thing
Action Comics
Demon Knights
Flash/Aquaman/Wonderwoman (I know I’m Cheating)
Biggest Disappontment
Deathstroke
Biggest Suprise
OMAC
Top 5:
Animal Man
Swamp Thing
Justice League
I, Vampire
Fury of Firestorm (or Aquaman)
Bottom 5: (I don’t really read books that I don’t think I will like, but just from what I’ve seen from previews etc.)
Green Arrow
Hawk and Dove
Blackhawks
Mister Terrific
Detective Comics
Biggest Disappointment:
Men of War
Biggest Surprise:
I mean, really it’s just how GOOD every book I’m reading is. Even the stuff I thought I would like has gone above-and-beyond my expectations.
Top 5:
Animal Man
Aquaman
Batwoman
Demon Knights
Batman
Bottom 5:
Mr. Terrific
Green Arrow
Hawk & Dove
both Legion books
Superman
Most surprised by:
Swamp Thing
I actually never read Swamp Thing before, though I’ve seen him used in Hellblazer. Before the reboot I thought that it was way too highbrow and that I wouldn’t get all that backstory with the Parliment of Trees and the Green and whatnot. Boy was I wrong. Synder really woke me up with the first and second issue and it’s one of the books I look forward to most.
Forgot to add this:
Most disappointed: Teen Titans
I really had high hopes for this but it just reads so…badly to me. The 90’s styled art and the immaturity (yeah I know they’re teens) of these characters, especially Tim, isn’t how I envisioned it…
Damn! I forgot Demon Knights! Good addition!
Top 5: Voodoo, Resurrection Man, Animal Man, Batwoman, Batman & Robin
Biggest surprise: Wonder Woman
Biggest disappointment: Mister Terrific
If we’re doing lists…
Top 5
Animal Man
The Flash
Batman
Resurrection Man
All-Star Western
Really, too many to choose from for Top 5, imo.
Bottom 5
Hawk and Dove
New Guardians
Hawkman
Captain Atom
Green Arrow
Biggest disappointment:
Mister Terrific and Men of War
Biggest surprise:
Birds of Prey and I, Vampire.
Top 5 not in any order
All star western
Stormwatch
Justice League Dark
Batgirl
DC Universe Presents
Most suprised by Ivampire because its pretty good and its not the twilight vampire book some where saying.
Swamp thing, Animal Man, and Resurrection Man.. and I guess Flash get honorable mentions .. its just that i expected those to be in the top 4.. and they are only in my top 10.
Most disappointed by All the Batman books.. although i like regular Batman.. I dont think pencilers should be taking over the writing chores on major books especially during such a high profile relaunch.
And Scalped is awesome.. always had been…
I gave fear itself a change.. I didnt think it was horrible till the last issue. It was OK at best untill the last issue. Which was horrible. I try to skip every other major crossover just because most of them suck… but sometimes we get an Eclipso or an Infinity War.. and then you feel it was worth it. Ha …. recent good crossovers.. i cant remember one.
Top 5:
1. The Flash
2. Batman
3. Wonder Woman
4. Demon Knights
5. Animal Man
Most Surprising: Resurrection Man
Biggest Disappointment: Legion Lost
My top 5:
Batman
Wonder Woman
Animal Man
Swamp Thing
The Flash
That was easy because I’m only reading those five.
New 52 Top 5:
Batman
Animal Man
All Star Western
Batwoman
Swamp Thing
There are other books I enjoy from the reboot, but if it was only these 5 I would still consider it a success.
I’m with @conor – way too many great new DC books to pick from. But if I had to do a top 5, it’d be this:
1) Animal Man
2) Batman
3) Swamp Thing
4) Wonder Woman
5) Justice League Dark
Most Surprising –> Aquaman. Even with Geoff Johns and Ivan Reis on it, there was still some doubt and they both blew it out of the water (no pun intended).
Biggest Disappointment –> Superman. Wordiest book I’ve read in a while. Almost puts Claremont books to shame.
TOP
Swamp Thing
Animal Man
Action Comics
Batwoman
Wonder Woman
Top 5: Batman, Batwoman, All Star Western, Action Comics, Frankenstein.
Biggest Surprise: Either Frankenstein or Wonder Woman (which didn’t quite make it into the top 5, but frankly I didn’t expect to like it much at all).
For me i only bought a few titles as any so i vote with my wallet.
Top 2 out of the four titles i actually bought
Aquaman
The Flash
Honorable mention: Action Comics
Biggest Surprise:
The Flash. I’ve never bought a flash book on a regular basis before. I liked the costume, i loved it when he appeared on the superman cartoon, and was intrested when he popped up in the blackest night. Yet i never expected to enjoy the ongoing adventures of the scarlet speedster. The book is firing on all cylinders from the dynamically paced art, to incredibly sharp dialogue, the plot is actually intriguing. It feels like a title I’ve would have no problem handing off to another person. Flash Fact.
Biggest Disappointment:
Justice League. Bear with me, I love Geoff Johns, i love the lineup (although cyborg still has to prove that he earned his position. Sorry.), hell i loved Jim Lee’s art. Yet, the problem comes in two areas, first off, it all has to do with finances. I can’t support a four dollar book where nothing really happens and where the “bonus” material isn’t really that great. The second is that it has a good premise, but yeesh, does this feel like beginner stuff. I wish that john’s would take the mark millar ultimates route. He didn’t hold your hand, but he guided you in the right direction and had brilliant action scenes. Might pick it up after heroes finally get out of their year one phase, as of now, dropped.
Top 5 in no order:
Action Comics
All-Star Western
Batman
Wonder Woman
Swamp Thing
Most Surprising: Aquaman
Biggest Disappointment: Superman
For all the hype about DC Comics New 52, 2/3 of the books are needless retreads as opposed to fresh, original exciting concepts. Teen Titans, Green Arrow, Firestorm, Captain Atom, Deathstroke, Hawk & Dove, Superboy, Supergirl, all 4 (?!?) of the redundant Legion books, Blue Beetle, Mister Terrific, Grifter (is ANYONE reading that one?), Justice League International, Static Shock, Blackhawks, Birds of Prey, & Voodoo all far well below expectations.
There are a handful of books that are actually presenting a fresh look at characters and they include Aquaman, Action Comics, Justice League & JLDark, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Wonder Woman, the Flash, Hawkman, OMAC, & Demon Knights come to mind.
I left out the GL and Bat books because they have been unaffected by the re-launch for the most part.
“Grifter (is ANYONE reading that one?)”
I personally think its pretty damn good.
I was reading Grifter, and would like to continue with it, but the budget has to crunch down somewhere eventually . . .
I’m thinking of going back and picking up the last two issues of GRIFTER.
It’s not quite there yet, but it’s getting better, and I’m sticking with it. I really like that character, so I’m hanging in.
I’m reading it too. It started out a little slow but it picked up in the last issue.
Action, Aquaman, Justice League, Red Hood, Demon Knights. Biggest disappointment: Suicide Squad
Top Five;
Batman
Batwoman
Demon Knights
Frankenstein
(hard call for the last spot, but most likely) Swamp Thing
Biggest Surprise: probably OMAC, followed closely by Frankenstein and Aquaman.
Biggest Disappointment: probably Catwoman. I really wanted to like this book, as I love the character, but something in the title just feels off. It’s not the sex, in fact I kinda like the possible Bruce/Batman/Selina love triangle the issue two hints at. Maybe it’s the tone? Anyway, I’d like to stick with this book longer, see how it devleops, but I don’t know if I’ll be able to justify the cost. Also, Blue Beatle & JLI.
A recent example of off characterization for me would be Odin in Fear Itself. All of his actions in that story, especially those related to Thor, seemed dictated more by plot points than anything else. It’s actually one of my biggests cirtiques of the series, and why I don’t read any Fraction Asgard titles in general — I just don”t feel that he has a good grasp on that corner on the Marvel world.
Batman and Robin
Animal Man
Batman
Demon Knights
The Flash
Surprise: Suicide Squad
I like too many to pick a top five of DC books, but I would like to say I agree wholeheartedly with Ron on Wolverine’s characterization. I get really sick of seeing people jump onto a recent Wolverine book expecting the old one-note “SNIKT SNIKT BUB” of the past and whining about the disparity. I think it’s a great example of character growth out of the normal cycle of superhero comics. This new direction after Schism of Wolverine and Cyclops becoming a sort of next generation of Professor X and Magneto is really interesting to me, and just pretty cool. I’m excited for the future of the X-books.
Good letters and responses this week!
My Top 3 (in no order)
1. The Flash: Manapul is really doing some next level work on this book
2. Batman: It’s different than Snyder’s Detective run, but just as good and still ramping up
3. Batman and Robin: Not the biggest surprise, but I’m still amazed that I like this as much as I do
I tried coming up with a 4 and 5, but I couldn’t choose between All Star Western, Wonder Woman, and Birds of Prey.
I’m enjoying Animal Man, Batwoman, Swamp Thing, and Nightwing, but they’re on a shorter leash. And I’m giving Stormwatch one more chance to WOW me — it’s not bad, but it’s not grabbing me.
I wish I could try out more books (action comics,aquaman justice league)but my love for my Batman books and financial constraint won’t let me.Maybe I will pick up the trades.
Wolverine and the X-Men was a good show. It’s too bad it got shut down due to not being a 100% Marvel Entertainment thing. The teaser for the Age of Apocalypse at the end of the last episode was awesome.
As for Josh’s topic. That one is easy. You just have to not worry about offending people. It’s a truism that most people have bad taste. The term lowest common denominator is not just a mathematics term. Just look at the top rated tv shows, top selling movies, top selling music. Most people have very simplistic taste and do not strive to find anything better. With most people, simple is good. Complex is not. Having to think or work at being entertained is not something most want. We live in an increasingly dumbed down world. We live in a world where most people eat McDonalds and think it’s good. That says all you need to know. Take pride in being one of the few able to know better.
Yay! Neat game. Can I play too?
My Top 5:
Batman
Action Comics
The Flash
Aquaman
Stormwatch
Biggest disappointment:
Green Lantern Corps. I mean, really? It seems so… Rehashed. And it pains me to say that.
Biggest surprise:
Wonder Woman. Okay, the first issue wasn’t to my liking, but the second issue blew me away.
top five:
Batman
OMAC
JLI
Swamp Thing
Animal Man
Biggest surprise: Wonder Woman. I couldn’t give less of a shit about Wonder Woman as a character, and that book is badass.
Biggest disappointment: Detective Comics. I was excited. That book ended up being a turd.
I didn’t get everything. I got less than 1/3rd actually. I knew another shitty Green Arrow book would just piss me off, so I skipped it. Ollie deserves some damned respect.
New Wonder Woman snoozer from the writer point of view so wake me up when Azzaboringo El Bore the crap out of me is off the book then I will return.
Matthew
My Top 5:
Aquaman
Stormwatch
Demon Knights
Birds of Prey
Legion Lost (haters, get thee to the left)
My top 5
Justice League
Aquaman
The Flash
Men of War
Wonder Woman
Bottom 5
Mister Treffic will all of my 5. It was the only book that I came out of and hated.
My top 5….hmm
Swamp Thing
Animal Man
All-Star Western
Batman
Aquaman
Bottom 2- Could not come up with 5 bottom titles
Savage Hawkman
Batman:The Dark Knight
I know…my avatar is Hawkman. I like the character in general, just not liking the art this time around.
My top 5 would be:
Wonder Woman
Batman
Action Comics
Justice League
Most surprising would be Wonder Woman. I really did not expect to enjoy it as much as I do.
Most disappointing would be JLI. It isn’t the worst book DC is publishing (*cough* Hawk and Dove *cough*) but it is the most disappointing because I really loved what was happening with Booster Gold and his group of misfits before Flashpoint happened.
Oops. I just pulled a Rick Perry. I forgot to list my fifth pick, The Flash.
Agreed on JLI. They made a huge mistake starting it over and not picking up from Generation Lost and Booster’s series… Those were both really fun, this is just…. there. It’s not terrible but it is so unbearably average.
Same here — I really liked the previous Booster Gold series, and the was disappointed with JLI. I miss Skeets too. More Sketes please . . .
Top 5
Animal Man
Batman
Nightwing
The Flash
Justice League
Most Surprising: For me, The Flash. I’d never read this character much before. Now, I’m hooked!
Most Disappointing: Action Comics. I know there’s people who think I’m crazy for saying this, but besides the first issue, I have not been excited by this book. The art has specifically suffered over these last two issues, especially Issue 3. I’m not sure how long I can pick this up for if the quality keeps slipping like it has.
Top 5
Animal Man
Swamp Thing
Flash
Aquaman
Wonder Woman
Honorable Mention/unasked for 6th: Resurrection Man
Most Surprising: Animal Man and Swamp Thing (I”ve always liked Buddy but this is the first time I’ve found myself on the edge of my seat waiting for his next issue……I’ve never particularly had an interest in Swamp Thing beyond just taking note of the bare basics of the character, but again, I wait on the edge of my seat for these two)
Most Disappointing: Mister Terrific, as said before…a character I’ve always loved, but this series has just average writing and apalling art.
I kind of don’t agree with the overall assessment that the masses have poor taste. I think its true sometimes, but with things like Fear Itself and other event comics, i think the masses are attracted to the hype machine and the potential of the lineup of talent. A Fraction written Marvel Event with all the major players in the Marvel U…..The potential is there to be awesome. People will stick with it because of that potential. When it fails its miserable. Its kinda like how my fantasy football team was projected to score 150 pts this week, but so far only has 59. Projections, lineups, potential…you just can’t account for bad performances and bad luck.
I’ve been waiting for someone to reply on this issue with a tone that would be less snarky than mine. Thanks Wally. Comic book fans are hopeful (not unlike fans of other mediums of entertainment). People wanted Fear Itself to be good. Not too hard to understand.
I feel like that kind of mindset (people have poor tastes/I’m an expert in everything/I’m an evolutionary step ahead of “the masses”) is very adolescent. Your tastes do not mean you “know better.”
I’m a musician and very picky when it comes to music. Sometimes I scoff at the songs that come up on this podcast, because they come off as dumbed-down to me, but that doesn’t mean I know better. Nor does it give me the right to offend people that think differently than me, just because I think I understand what makes a better song (it does give me the right to playfully poke fun though!). That’s just my tastes. It is unrealistic to expect everyone to be experts in everything (who has the time?) and it begins to suck the fun out of life.
Love too many of the books to make a top 5 list. But I will say I,m loving Frankenstien, OMAC, Action going into month 3.
Most surprised is a threeway tie between Wonder Woman, omac, and I, Vampire.
Titles on the edge include, Mister Terrific, Teen Titans. Both feature characters I really want to see done well but so far….
My top five in order:
1. Animal Man
2. Swamp Thing
3. Batman
4. All-Star Western
5. Batwoman
Biggest surprise: All-Star Western – I didn’t buy this when it first came out because it was a “Western”. It got such good reviews, I had to try it. Issue #1 was simply amazing, intellegent and great art.
Biggest disappointment: Demon Knights – I was looking forward to this greatly, along with all of the Dark titles. I read #1 twice and still don’t know what was going on. The art is great but that was chaos.
DC is offering subscriptions where the 5th title is free. I’m trying to cut down my titles to 5, but currently collect 9.