RIP Peter Parker (Again), RIP My Faith in Marvel (Again)

mjdeadpeter I understand that it’s a bad idea to get overly sentimental about the ever-changing world of modern day comics; I get that. I understand that one of the most compelling aspects about reading comics is how the stories and characters change, grow and adapt, often in response to real world events and trends (and movie openings). I get that sometimes, one needs to make a huge change to a character or a character’s world to jolt both the comic book universe and the comic book audience.

All that being said, considered, and understood, I still have to ask: what’s Marvel’s problem with Peter Parker? 

(Clearly, this article assumes you are caught up with what happened in The Amazing Spider-Man #700, and while I may sound like the bruised and horrified readers that Jim refers to in his great article, it’s about more than that, promise.)

It’s very easy to point to the fan reaction on Twitter and laugh at comic book people (over)reacting to this stuff, but I think that’s only part of the conversation. I am not able to be on Twitter throughout the day and chart the madness the ebbs and flows from moment to moment about who is irritated by what in comics. I find myself more in the “more engaged than casual” fan of comics, someone who understands the medium and the business but very much not aware of the politics, bickering, and various personality disorders that seem to the subject of many a comic book argument. So, when I talk about how irritated I was at the end of The Amazing Spider-Man, I am truly irritated, despite knowing that nothing is permanent in comics, dead characters come back to life, etc etc, and without any knowledge of how how permanent this new paradigm will last.

Now, of all of the various alter-egos in comics, Peter Parker is the one that I have always related to the most. This is hardly surprising, of course — he’s basically designed to be that way, the prototypical “shy person with a powerful secret” that fits so well with the, “if s/he only knew ___ about me, then s/he would go out with me/be my friend” yearning that kept so many a daydream rolling in our youth.

Being a fan of Peter Parker is hardly original, but that just underscores how universal and gwenandpeterimportant the character is. He was the logical step up from Charlie Brown — another universal loser — but, just like so many other high school kids, he was actively figuring out who he was in the world. Even later, as as adult, he was still balancing the various needs of his day job, his hero gig, and his personal relationships — just like all of us found ourselves doing once we entered our working lives. I’m an actor, and I can honestly tell you, there doesn’t feel like that much of a difference between changing from shorts and t-shirt to a full suit and tie in your car on a hot July afternoon for a Burger King commercial audition and changing into a super hero costume behind a smelly dumpster to help foil a bank robbery — awkward and terrible, but necessary if you’re gonna get the job done.

Another reason I think so many people have reacted so strongly to this second Peter Parker “death” is the fact that Peter’s regular life has always been, well, regular.  He wasn’t a top reporter like Clark Kent. He wasn’t rich like Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne. He wasn’t a smart crime investigator like Barry Allen or a test pilot like Hal Jordan. He was a smart kid who got bullied in school and then a young adult trying desperately to juggle two careers and was usually straight up broke, being raised by his aunt, having to be both a kid and the man of the house. In Queens.

I guess I may be part of a chorus of frustrated people who are upset about Peter’s death, but it’s not just because I am losing a character I grew up with — and let’s just for the moment assume that we are supposed to take his death at face value, shall we? — my big issue is that I already went through all this with Peter in the Ultimate universe and, by the way, I do not like how it has turned out. For whatever reason, I still don’t really care about Miles Morales. I don’t dislike him, I think he’s just fine, but I just don’t find him particularly compelling.

To be fair, it’s not really his fault, I don’t think. Like Peter, Miles did not choose to become Spider-Man. He is doing his best trying to figure out his role in the world, blah blah, but he just seems like he’s almost inconsequential in his own story. He just seems to get pulled into other people’s problems, into larger struggles and less involved with moving his own story forward. You may not feel the same way, but when I think about Miles I think about this kid who is just kind of getting pinballed from one story to the next and I just find it tiresome.

This is, of course, because I am comparing him to a character I have known for years and have a history with. Miles may be able to have a “deeper” storyline years from now, but that’s not what I was reading Spider-Man for. I was reading Spider-Man because I like the world of Peter Parker just as much as, if not more than, the world of Spider-Man.

Until a few weeks ago, one would just roll their eyes and say, “No problem, just read the regular Spider-Man books, dork!”

Poor me, I can’t do that now. I can read the old books, sure, but that’s not the point.

My big problem with this is that Marvel is asking me to trust them, again, as they kill of Peter Parker, again, that they’ll be able to tell really cool stories with this new Spider-Man character.

Well, Marvel, I don’t trust you.

And why should I? Look, I can see that Doc Ock-as-Spider-Man being a cool idea if they went ahead and made Spider-Man an actual bad guy, but I am really supposed to believe that Doctor Octopus is going to be a good guy because he had some flashback of a bunch of memories that were somehow that much more poignant than his own messed up life that made him turn to evil in the first place? Gimme a break.

asm700coi

I don’t buy it — I won’t buy it.  I won’t buy it because it’s a half-assed attempt for Marvel to have their cake and eat it, too.  The promise of a bad guy taking over Spider-Man is that Spider-Man is now a bad guy. That’s the deal; not following through with it is not only lame and cowardly, but it’s manipulative as well, and, I would argue, demeans Peter’s death that much more.

Marvel, of course, has been all about manipulation these days, from the death of Ultimate Peter Parker to killing off Johnny Storm to Cyclops murdering Xavier to the utter fan service that was the Spider-Men miniseries. I just feel used, to be honest with you. Yes, Marvel has shared some compelling moments, but at what cost?  And, I will reiterate that I understand that this is what comics is about, to some extent, but I would argue that killing off Peter Parker twice just reeks of desperation and represents a fair amount of disrespect to the comic book reader.

Yes, Marvel made a buck and a lot of news by killing Peter Parker off again. And yes, I guess it is fun for comic book insiders to make fun of how angry and upset people are about the killing off of a fundamental character. But I think in killing off Peter (and the Amazing Spider-Man title), Marvel is not only getting rid of an important character and a cherished legacy, they are trashing the trust that they might have engendered with generations of comic book fans.  Sure, the comic book intelligentsia all know that Peter Parker is going to come back (like Bruce Wayne and Human Torch before him), I am not all sure that his readers will. You know the saying, “Kill Peter once, shame on you, kill Peter twice, shame on me?”

You don’t?

You do now.

Have fun being superior, Marvel.

 


Mike Romo is an actor in LA who didn’t realize how much he cared until just about now. Email/Twitter.

 

 

Comments

  1. JokersNuts JokersNuts says:

    Peter Parker is not dead for good. He’ll be back in a matter of months. Just enjoy the ride, the stories have been a lot of fun.

    • tripleneck tripleneck (@tripleneck) says:

      Right! He’s not even dead! The end of ASM 700 was just a cliffhanger. We’re going to find out in Superior 1 (or at the latest issue 2) that Peter is still around, never really went away (died), and from then on Ock will get to cavort in the Parker body while Peter’s story becomes the journey towards how he reclaims his own body.

      I just don’t get why people can’t wait 2 weeks and read what happens before flipping the table on this.

    • markavo markavo says:

      I only recently picked up my own copies of ADM because of the history of this moment. Seeing fans flip their lids tells me I got the right books to show people down the years. And, from what I’ve heard about Superior Spidey, people really should’ve just waited before going nuts… then again, that’s the point isn’t it?

      Sloth has some big balls but without the short hind legs, no ones going to call him Sparky.

  2. jonb227 says:

    how is it that much of a stretch for otto to become a hero given a second chance at life after he was on death’s door? The character has never been evil for evil’s sake, and anyone who has read the books closely knows his need for attention was born out of a father that overlooked him & put him down & a mother that doted on him….since the character’s introduction, his main hangup w/ spiderman is that he has felt he is squandering power & intelligence, and if only he could get the chance he has been given that he would be the ‘superior’ spider man….the flash alone wasn’t the only thing that swayed him, it was just the slight push that was needed in order for him to try a new lease on life…..the people complaining about this are too shortsighted to see that this is a temporary change that allows the creators to look at the character of peter parker in a different light, in effect reenergizing the team, earning the marvel now banner, and the knee jerk reactions would probably be assuaged if people would wait for the series proper to get rolling, but my guess is that most of the people acting like this wouldn’t allow themselves to enjoy it, no matter how good it is….it’s indicative of the sad state of affairs in a socially networked fandom, too many people are concerned w/ their own feelings to put themselves in the shoes of the characters like we used to when we were young….when you were 12, did you complain about the tri sentinel showing up, or aunt may dying? I personally just read the books and got excited about the future of the character….long story short, this is a temporary change, and if people would let their emotional ties to the character go for a few months, they could be in for a new story, something that peter parker has been lacking for awhile…..if the character never changed people would be complaining then too

  3. SEChambers says:

    “You don’t?

    You do now.

    Have fun being superior, Marvel.”

    Holy Hell, please tell me this tirade is satire.

  4. cubman987 cubman987 says:

    Dock Ock wanting to be a Superior Spider-man to what Peter Parker was is 100% dead on with his character, so I really don’t think it’s that big of a leap. If he were going to be a straight up good guy and be just like Peter then yeah it wouldn’t work, but based on what I can tell from ASM #700 and Avenging #15.1 I think he’s going to be much more brutal (like punching the jaw off of the Scorpion) and a quite a bit more self-serving. I like the idea as a short term story as long as it is told well and done right, and I think it will be.

    • jonb227 says:

      Totally agreed..the people that are saying the change is uncharacteristic of Otto have obviously never paid close enough attention to the character,…he’s always felt he was underestimated and underappreciated, even before he got the tentacles, in the light of his impending death it makes perfect sense that he would use this opportunity to try a different tactic, to earn the respect he’s always desired, superior spider man is all about how he succeeds & fails in that regard….people that are fans enough to make it a career should be able to see these things

    • Eh, if I wanted that type of Spider-Man, I would just stick with Scarlet Spider. That’s basically what is taking place in Houston instead of NYC.

  5. MadCowDzz MadCowDzz (@DarylFritz) says:

    I’ve said this before, but THE SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN #1 hardly feels like a safe jumping-on point since the characters and the story are bringing so much baggage. I can’t imagine picking up this “#1″ and expecting to join the ride without a lot confusion.

  6. IthoSapien IthoSapien says:

    Don’t know how to feel about Peter’s (second) death. I think the Superior thing has potential, and its pretty unexpected. I agree about Mile Morales, I don’t find him that compelling. Thats due to how and when he was introduced, instead of him not being Peter Parker. Whats really weird is it seems like ASM is getting most of the fanboy outrage these days; OMD, BND, OMIT… theres tons more.

  7. diebenny diebenny says:

    I don’t agree, Mike, but you (and others) representing different perspectives is one of the best things about this site. I think this is well written too and shows that you CAN care and be passionate about the comics you love without being a nut job. Not everyone can walk that line, but the people round these parts (mostly) seem pretty damn good at it.

    I guess I’m okay with character deaths. I’d never really thought about it. I loved Torch eating and Xavier getting blasted.

    If you read some of the comments in Jim’s article, people posed theories that Pete ain’t dead, and that he is slightly brainwashed for the time being. If I had to guess, I’d point to that being the heart of the story.

    Either way though, I just like the story opportunities these kinds of shakeups can bring. Like Wally said yesterday though: Some people like having broke Pete struggling to get by. It’s their comfort food. I get that. They need to offer that as well as the experimental shakeups for those of us who feel like we’re cool with the decades of broke Peter stories we already have. For y’all’s sake, I hope they find a way to give you your comfort food.

    For me? I’m into the shakeups. Kill my favorite characters, as long as the story is interesting.

    That CAN go wrong though. I agree completely about Miles. I loved USM. Now I don’t read it anymore. I just don’t think they nailed it. If the story had been there, so would I, but I just wasn’t feeling it. So I understand that some people just aren’t feeling Slott’s writing.

  8. Milky Milky says:

    Sorry but you can’t diss something until you give it a chance. its like saying The New Superman Film is shit cause the trailer looked bad.

    Give it a chance if it doesn’t work then critisize it. don’t just jump on the bandwagon.

    • HankChinaski says:

      I agree with your sentiment here definitely. I think the thing that irks me most about these stories even getting print is they encourage that “boys club” attitude of comic fans where we keep tearing down the very thing we love. It is like when a site publishes a title will probably end at a certain issue. With such low selling numbers on some titles it can be a death’s knell for that title which is just a shame. This isn’t journalism. This is sadly what journalism has become. Just give me the basic information. I’ll develop my own opinions. Every site I go to I find it is mostly reviews, and that should be the smallest percentage of what is printed on the site. It is why I like this site but LOVE The Beat. Reviews are just opinions ultimately. And the people on these sites have a responsibility to temper those opinions with enough fact and logic to edify and build up the industry. I’m actually to the point I might delete me account on this site and just go back to getting my “candy” comics news from ComicBookResources and my legit news from The Beat.

    • Metamorphic Metamorphic says:

      I totally understand the “try it and see” line of thought, but if someone doesn’t dig the core idea behind Superior Spider-Man, then they have no reason to try it. I don’t need to watch certain TV shows to know the ideas don’t appeal to me. I would expect the same thing to apply in comics.

      As for the Parker “dying” again, I dunno… feels like it happened so recently that it’s hard to care. I know that’s not necessarily true but it may be “death fatigue”.

    • Jaedence says:

      You can’t diss something until you give it a chance?

      He was just fed a shit sandwich and is saying he didn’t like it. Now you want him to try the dessert before proclaiming he didn’t like the shit sandwich?

      “its like saying The New Superman Film is shit cause the trailer looked bad.”

      No, it’s like him seeing the New Superman Film and saying he didn’t like it. And you telling him his opinion is wrong until he sees Superman 2.

    • I agree with @Metamorphic. The author of this column isn’t necessarily calling the book Superior Spider-Man bad. He’s saying that he doesn’t like the idea of it and that can be enough to know that you don’t like something. People can not like the outcome of #700 and decide that this idea isn’t for them, solely based on what transpired in that issue.

  9. HankChinaski says:

    I can’t reveal too much because I’m privy to some knowledge but I’ll simply say we will have to agree to disagree on this. Unlike the last death, Slott is a competent writer. Mackie has been and will always be a hack, and that is why The Clone Saga was so bad and still so derided by fans. I think if fans set aside their personal issues and gave Slott a little faith they would see an incredible web of story (no pun intended) that has built slowly over the years he’s been on the title to this point, that while I had it figured out before 698, I think allows Slott to explore some things with the character that have never been explored before. And as a fellow writer here on this site said in one of his posts the other day…we know it won’t last so eventually you will get back those Peter stories you love so much. I have glaring issues with a lot of your logic here and think the truth is that only complaint that exists from anyone that is valid is from a fans standpoint, but Marvel since its inception has been a company that takes daring chances with its characters…and except for some missteps during the 90s…as always done well in that. I’m sorry you don’t like what is happening. I was apprehensive but the more I read Slott talking about his plans and hear his passion the more I can’t help but say what Christos N Gage said to me about my gripe over Avengers Arena ruining the stories of Runaways and Avengers Academy: I don’t have to buy the title. And you don’t. I know you addressed that but that really is the only answer there is. I, for one, and excited to see character explored…probably because of my English Lit and teaching/writing backgrounds. I will simply say give Slott a chance, or just drop the title. Frankly, as a fan, I’m tired of hearing it. To me, the things that DC is doing to their entire line of books and creators, creator rights, the “resignation” of Karen Berger and the slow change of Vertigo to a factory to regurgitate previously established IP from old titles and other mediums…these are all much bigger issues. I let Avengers Arena go…after buying the first issue so I could put my money where my mouth is…I think a lot of you fans can do the same for Spidey for the 18-24 issues this is sure to be the status quo.

    • HankChinaski says:

      …and sorry for the misspellings. I’m a little passionate about this issue because the few times I’ve talked to Dan I know there is no one that loves Spider-Man more than he does. We could continue to have the same old “Spidey beats up villain A for the billionth time” stories, but it is the job of any good writer to explore the possibilities of any character to its fullest extent. Dan would not have just done this if he didn’t have a plan in place, and a sound one at that.

    • I am with you in putting my faith in Slott. I have been enjoying the hell out of his run (started reading ASM and comics in general after Spider Island just ended) and I trust that he is going someone big with this. Maybe I feel differently because I haven’t been reading ASM for 10+ years? All I know is that Superior is coming whether we like it or not, I hope that I like it.

    • LukeGob says:

      Really, just don’t buy the book? I’ve been buying the book for over 25 years. Spider-Man is a part of Americana. The character may belong to Marvel as a TM, but, lame as it sounds, true non the less, he belongs to us: the fans. To people who have been reading the books for their while lives, dishing-out however much Marvel wanted from us every month( and with Spider-Man, that’s meant a lot of $ for a lot of different books) and only asking ONE THING: write good stories and stay true to the character. Dan Slott has done none of that. He’s a bad, lazy writer. He’s had his moments, but really, how hard would it be to write good stories for a character like Peter/Spider-Man who has 50 years of some really great writing behind him, on top of being one of the best concepts for a character written in comics? If you can’t tell good stories without shitting on the last 50 years of stories, and the fans that read them, then write for another book. Or make your own. This ones ours. And can the “I’m privy to info I can’t reveal, but trust me, I know what I’m talking about” crap. Even if this isn’t a permanent change, it’s still bad writing. It was an interesting idea, but it was done badly. In every way. Like Mike said, at least make him a villain if a villain is going to be Spider-Man, whether or not you think Otto’s change is in line with his character. It’s still bad writing from a bad writer. As much as comic book fans like to complain, we really don’t ask for much, just good stories that stay true to the character. And unlike most complaints about the everyday changes characters go through, and the complaining that goes with it, this is different. It’s Spider-Man, a character that’s recognizable the world over. It’s not for one bad, lazy writer to screw-up.

  10. i think this is a special case. Spiderman and by extension Peter Parker is arguably the most relatable superhero in comics and that is a big part of what launched the character into the pantheon of all time greats and what makes him so loved. The fact that this character no longer being published for the time being kinda sorta sucks. Yes the youtube fan vids are kinda ridiculous, but i kinda feel like this whole thing is bumming a lot of comic readers out.

    Yes we all know he’s coming back at some point (or is it foolish to assume that?), BUT like i said yesterday, a lot of us who read big 2 comics, come back to these characters because they are so relatable…the comfort food that is their continuing journeys. It sucks when that’s not there anymore. This may sound weird, but for me, when i want experimentation i go creator owned. When i want continuing adventures with familiar faces i go Big 2.

    I’ve lost a bit of trust as well. Only because i know these deaths are so vapid and regularly scheduled to occur once a quarter. I really enjoyed the story Slott has been telling so far and i’m on board to see how it turns out, but at the same time i’m kinda bummed about the fact that Peter Parker isn’t around anymore so my enthusiasm for Superior isn’t really there.

  11. LeviHunt15 LeviHunt15 says:

    My biggest problem with both your article and the fanboy outrage (among my many problems with both) is that you are essentially saying that you don’t want your comic books to change. You’re saying that you want to pick up any Spider-Man comic in the last 50 years or the next 50 years and know exactly what to expect from it.

    It was a heroic death that fits beautifully for the character (he overcame impossible odds to win but still lost) and now we get new stories.

    “Marvel I don’t trust you” “Marvel has been all about manipulation these days” “they are trashing the trust”
    This all sounds really childish and is a very dangerous mindset, as if the individual creators making these comics do these things they do simply because they’ll get a nice paycheck. As if they have no artistic integrity, that the story they’re telling means nothing to them.

    I normally really like how you write, Mike, but I think you are going to look back on this article in a month or two and be really embarrassed by it.

    • HankChinaski says:

      “My biggest problem with both your article and the fanboy outrage (among my many problems with both) is that you are essentially saying that you don’t want your comic books to change.” Amen!

    • Why do classic comics and classic characters have to change? Why can’t a classic be left alone to do what it does best? Sometimes the need to screw with a winning formula bites you in the butt.

      I’m interested in seeing where it goes, but wanting things to change just because its “old” is kinda silly as well.

    • jpriester73 jpriester73 says:

      You can enjoy change and not like this change. I liked it when Steve Rogers died and was sad when he came back. I like that Cyclops is becoming the new Magneto. I liked Dick and Damian as Batman and Robin rather than Bruce and Tim. I even like Miles as the new Ultimate Spiderman.

      I would have liked all kinds of changes with Amazing Spiderman, even some involving his death. Just because you don’t like this change doesn’t mean you don’t like all change.

      Seriously how is Slott getting a pass on all of this? I’ve thought he’s been a bad writer a long time before 698. I’m surprised with all the talent Marvel has (Hickman, Waid, Remender, Aaron, Bendis, Fraction, Gillian) Dan Slott gets to write their most important character.

      P.S. When they do change it back in a year or so I hope Waid writes the new Amazing Spiderman of all those creators. He’s probably my 5th favorite on that list but I think he’s perfect for Spiderman.

    • HankChinaski says:

      …and as I’m sure people would you completely miss the point. It isn’t change because of change. It is change because themes like The Sinister Six, Peter’s love life, etc get old hat and boring. Writing is all about character exploration. I’ll leave it at that and simply say give Superior 1 a chance before you throw the baby out with the bath water. :)

    • not to belabor the point, but essentially some have been arguing that no one is allowed to be upset/bummed or whatever about a story point that has already happened, because something better *might be* coming down the road. Its cool to be optimistic about the future, but you’re allowed to have a snap reaction to things that just happened.

      “There’s always next year” isn’t that comforting the day after your team just lost the Superbowl.

    • Metamorphic Metamorphic says:

      “My biggest problem with both your article and the fanboy outrage (among my many problems with both) is that you are essentially saying that you don’t want your comic books to change.”

      See, I don’t think that’s true at all. There are different ways to change things. And not all of them are going to be good or something that appeal to certain fans. That’s not to say they don’t want the books to change, but some changes are more “damaging” than others.

      I am one of those who hasn’t read Spider-Man since One More Day. No crazy video ranting or death threats from me. I simply stopped reading. Because the Peter Parker I knew would never have done the deal with Mephisto. To me, that changed a fundamental aspect of the character. And though I have hear great things about the books since, it’s not enough for me to overlook that.

      So I don’t think it’s fair to say people who don’t like this don’t want their comics to change. It may be that the change simply isn’t to their liking. And that seems fair to me.

  12. Kamilo Kamilo says:

    Mike Romo: the crotchety old man on the porch of ifanboy.

  13. Walterama says:

    Is it really so awful that normal, well-reasoned people (not those making death threats and threats of bodily harm to others) are reacting emotionally to this story and actually care about this medium? If it is okay that some of you emote so passionately why you think this is the greatest thing ever because it is “different,” then why is it not okay that some people think the opposite in an emotional way? Some of need to stop being jerks about the topic, for crying out loud, and let people have their say without belittling them in these comments. Many of you are fine in that you provide your counterpoint in a non condescending manner, but others need to learn how to play nice in the sandbox no matter what side you fall on. Have some decorum. I am sure I will get a snarky reply over this post, but I think calling for a little class in the discussion of our differing viewpoints of the storyline needs to happen.

    • Milky Milky says:

      Have you not taken into account this is what Dan Slott wants to do though?

      Maybe he wants to upset you, piss you off even. He Might even want to make you mad. Your talking about it, its bothering you. Its making you think about what going to happen now that he’s gone. Does this not excite you even a little bit?

      I’m not saying don’t be upset- do be upset i was wounded when i first found out but thats good though!

      - I’m just saying give the guy a chance to show us what’s guna happen before being like ‘nah fuck off im not reading this shit now’

    • HankChinaski says:

      Exactly…I think to great literature or even popular tv in your argument here. We watch Game of Thrones or have read the books chances are you HATE Joffrey. And that is what makes it so great. If you don’t get an emotional rise out of what you are reading or watching I suggest people explore what they ingest. I would add the ending to Steinbeck’s Of Mice or Men. That ending was the hardest thing for me to deal with for years but it was powerful. As is the surprise twists from authors like Flannery O’Connor. Give it a chance folks. Stop hating before you have all the information. It makes you look ignorant frankly. I’ll state again…I had to swallow my pride with Avengers Arena. While I won’t read the book because of personal feelings I can’t say the first issue was poorly made which made me hate it all the more. lol But that is affective. And there is a group of readers…maybe new readers which we ALL want…that this works for. Okay…I really have to log off or I’ll soon be arguing with everyone. This is feeling like back in the day when Busiek kept changing the Avengers rosters all over again. haha

    • Walterama says:

      I am not quite getting part of your responses since I am upset and bothered by it myself. I was not saying not to be emotionally involved. I think that is a great reaction (within reason) that we care about this make believe world. I am just commenting on the fact that some people (not everyone) are belittling people for feeling equally passionate in the opposite direction as they do about the story. I am saying that both sides have the right to react passionately and emotionally but not get ridiculed that they are crotchety, morons, don’t know the medium, etc., as has been happening in some cases. In the end it is all opinions, so since this is fictional realm, let’s act a little classy while commenting.

      With that said, I and others used ASM #698-700 and AvSM #15.1 to formulate an opinion about it, and I think doing so with just that portion is okay and not equivalent to just watching a movie trailer. I arrived at my (albeit current) opinion after I closed those pages, reserving judgement until I had done so (though I along with everyone else heard the hype for months before). Yes, there is more to come, but I think four issues of where they are headed is enough to comment on as well. Perhaps those of us that don’t like what we read so far will be proven wrong, and for the sake of the character, I hope that this is actually is a great new chapter in the Spider-man story. We will all see in due time (some of us sooner if we had a sneak peak/inside info). And whether I pick it up issue by issue or wait for a trade after I hear more news, if it is ultimately something great, I probably will read it, no matter how I felt after closing #700/15.1.

  14. Zeppo Zeppo says:

    Great article, and a fun counter point to yesterday,

    I think it is important to show that some fans just don’t care for this story, and while are not all making youtube videos and threats we have no interest in buying a product we don’t think we’ll enjoy, and miss a product we know we did enjoy.

    I believe in not judging a product until you’ve experienced it. I watched Twilight to ensure my opinion of it was correct, but we have had three issues now of this status que, and we know we don’t like it,

    • HankChinaski says:

      You….you don’t like it. The truth is there have been a lot of people praising this move. Lets not split hairs here and pretend that the outrage is from the vocal majority. It isn’t. It just appears that way because the immediacy of the internet gives it credence Zeppo.

    • Zeppo Zeppo says:

      I did say “some fans”, and when I said “we” I as refering to those you had voice upset, not everyone.

      If you enjoyed the story, please continue to enjoy it. I would just like Marvel to provide a product I enjoy. If I do not like Tony Daniel’s Batman, I can buy Scott Snyder, if I don’t like Avengers, I can read Uncanny or Ultimates.

      The comic industy offers choice, there is no where I can go to read the Spider-man stories I want to read. I have tried Dan Slott’s revised version and I didn’t like it. When 698 came out I was told to wait until 700, where his intentions would be clear. When 700 came out Marvel said wait for SSM 1, now on the eve of SSM 1 we’re told it won’t be until SSM 2 until the true story becomes clear.

    • tripleneck tripleneck (@tripleneck) says:

      Zeppo, the nature of serialized stories is the chronically delayed payoff. I’m sure you know this if you stop and reflect on it. Of course, it’s all going to be spoonfed a little bit at a time issue by issue. Either get them as they come out, or trade wait, or wait a few years and read what happened on wikipedia. It’s your choice.

      After all, the opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference. Just walk away and never think about it again.

  15. Superior Spider-man leaked yesterday. You may want to change your mind about not getting it. That’s all I’m saying on the matter, as I don’t want to spoil it.

  16. HankChinaski says:

    …and to wrap this up because now I am getting angry I leave you with a little wisdom from my Grandfather: “Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and everyone thinks everyone else’s stinks.” I’m logging out of here before I go on the attack. So far I have managed to keep this rather civil. I feel that slipping away as all this “nerd rage” is reaching a fever pitch. This is a none issue folks. If you don’t like it, then don’t buy it. Done.

  17. stevetwo stevetwo says:

    Few thoughts:

    1. The current story’s intriguing enough to read the first few issues. But no, I couldn’t care less about reading a book where Doc Ock – regardless of who’s body he’s in, is “trying to be a greater hero than ____.” Besides, Kraven already did it in one of the best Amazing stories EVER.

    2. I’m confident Peter will return. Otherwise…

    3. Amazing has had great storylines the past few years, but to me they don’t quite make the grade because there is so much freakin’ baggage going on behind the character. I can’t really explain it, but I remember Spidey stories about Pete walking around campus, bumping into a friend, saying hi and walking on. Now there are SOOOOO many side characters with SOOOO many side stories. Carlie and Peter dating and subsequent hijinks, great, but do I care about a side story where, to spite Peter, she gets drunk and goes to a tatoo parlor? No! Don’t get me wrong. That aspect of SPM is great to an extent, but lately it’s really just… too much.

    3. Death in the Marvel Universe means nothing now, which means readers aren’t as emotionally invested in the overall Marvel Universe, and to a lesser extent, the industry in general. The idea that Bucky was frozen for decades and reawakened? I’d go for that because it was a reasonable way to bring him back. Bucky “having just a hint of life” after taking a Thor hammer to the chest so he can be brought back? Please. Don’t care about him anymore. I put him on my list next to the Human Torch. Top on that list: Jason Todd.

    4. Side note about Miles Morales: I wasn’t sure about this book, but I like the guy. He’s just a kid, slightly scared out of his wits, and really has no business doing what he’s doing. But it’s the anticipation – that x factor of this new character’s own unique personality and circumstances – that keeps me coming back. Maybe if i didn’t think Peter would come up with some miracle gizmo to tackle a villain in every issue, lose that predictability he’s been loaded with for the past 5 or so years, I’d be more excited.

    5. I don’t believe I ever read that Marvel NOW was intended to be a place to attract new readers like New 52. If that was the plan however, they failed miserably, and Doc Ock/Superior Spiderman – just another “read it once” chapter in Spiderman history.

  18. bub64882 bub64882 says:

    Cyclops is a dick, the Human Torch/Prof X/Peter Parker is dead, the Avengers fight the X-Men…whatever it is, it’s fine, if executed well. Many of these things don’t seem to flow organically from what we know about these stories and characters though.

    As an example, AVX seemed to spring out of nowhere, with Cyclops and Cap unable to talk to one another in a way that makes sense with where these characters are today. Cap and Iron Man go to the President before they convene the Illuminati when the Phoenix is headed to earth. They didn’t think Xavier may have some insight into this? Meanwhile Wolverine still hasn’t clawed Wanda apart for House of M. That seems to be a more logical spring board for the same editorial mandate (bring back mutants, create crossover).

    I appreciate that Marvel at least has architects shaping the larger world. It would have behooved DC to have a little more of that when they were “planning” the New52. But I can definately understand fan disappointment (obviously NOT death threats) when they see transparent editorial mandates and short-term cash grabs so thinly draped in “story”.

    On the other hand, if Damien were to die in the “death of the family” storyline, I would totally go “yeah, that makes sense”. The story has built in such a way that this “shocking, news-worthy” status quo change would grow organically from the story being told.

    And if we are just supposed to comfort ourselves with “well he’ll be back in 12 issues”, then what is the point? I mean, Thor, Bucky, Cap, Wasp, Human Torch, and now Spider-Man have died in the last year or two. And we all knew they would be back…sometimes as soon as the following issue, with no explanation. So what, then, is the point of these deaths? Of those, the Human Torch one was handled pretty well, with some really emotional issues resulting from the death, and some character changes to Johnny that have been pretty interesting (king of the Negative Zone, some cool ship, the rod thingy from Annihilus). But otherwise? What story purpose do these deaths serve? Short-term sales spikes? At what point is all this just…well, too much Anti-Biotics being prescribed leads to them not working in the long term. Is that where we’re headed?

    • HankChinaski says:

      Glad to see you appreciate the level of direction and control Marvel has over their titles. It has been the biggest issue of contention for me with the New 52. To me it makes absolutely no sense to reboot something if you didn’t have a plan you could stick to and believe in. Besides 2-3 titles over there (which I even dropped those because I’m not giving DC my money anymore) that entire line has become a place for creator contention, poorly executed storylines, and unforgiveable continuity mishaps which…they correct in the TPBs? A little off subject I know but I got tired of beating a dead horse with all the Spidey fanboys. Their going to be pissed, and frankly…it is time to ignore it and move on.

    • markish markish says:

      The point of Thor’s death was to tell the Tanarus story. The point of Bucky’s ‘death’ was to launch the Winter Soldier story. The point of the Wasp’s death was to show how it affected Hank (which is very Women in Refrigeratory and not my cup of tea. The Human Torch you’ve touched on, but it also helped Hickman explore the ‘Family’ aspect of the FF in a way I really enjoyed. Judging by how it’s gone down so far and what I’ve heard Slott say about it the point of Spider-Man ‘dying’ is to give us a completely unique story about the mindset of Doctor Octopus and what it means to truly ‘be’ Spider-Man. Of course, I’m just speculating here, and the story could end up being about something else. That’s part of why I’m excited to read it…

    • bub64882 bub64882 says:

      @Markish – The Tanarus story (which absolutely NO ONE wanted) could have been told without a shoehorned death of a great character. In fact, Beta Ray Bill is a great example of “what would it be like if Thor was a Green Lantern Horse?”…that went on for a while, all while still telling a fantastic story about Thor. Bucky’s death was literally undone in less than a month. It was comical. There was no need to “kill” the character first.

      I guess my point is that the ridiculous preponderance of deaths, particularly at Marvel, are deadening my senses to the whole thing. Quite aside from whatever Slott is doing, which I have very little interest in one way or the other, I am afraid that Marvel is slowly killing (heheh) what has the potential to be a great storytelling tool, and overall cheapening their stories and IP’s.

      Let me put it this way…Special 700th issue! Spidey Dies! And most fans rolls their eyes and shrug “give it 6 months”. Same with “Special Double-Sized Wedding Issue!”. They will be divorced before their first anniversary. I understand this is how comics work…I started collecting with Secret Wars, and Dr. Doom killed every hero in issue 10, only to have them ressurrected by issue 11. But I think it has reached a critical tipping point, at least for me, where I just don’t care about these things that are typically tools for RAISING the stakes, and getting me more invested.

      If, as Connor mentioned, Marvel has committed to their shareholders to kill a character every quarter to drive sales, then at what point do we, collectively, just shrug and stop caring?

    • markish markish says:

      @bub64882 Oh I didn’t say the Tanarus story was good, I was just answering the question.

      The Winter Soldier comic was entirely predicated on the Marvel Universe believing Bucky to be dead, so that ‘s why he needed to be ‘killed’. Not saying these are good or bad reasons, just saying that they did actually lead to stories bei ng told.

  19. HankChinaski says:
  20. phess1 phess1 says:

    Right on. I think al you guys miss the point. This new incarnation of Spiderman is stupid overall. The idea is dumb, the logic he used to get there is dumb and the idea to make this the status quo even for a short period of time is dumb. Point blank period. I’ll confess to not being a fan of Dan Slott’s run whatsoever and while I did think there was some good points to Spiderman 700 (specifically his clear love of the Peter Parker that stands out in the Peter Parker dying and Peter Parker in heaven parts) but overall this a sympton of the overall problem I have with Slott’s Spiderman run. Unlike say Hickman’s run on Fantastic Four, Remender on X-Force/Venom and Aaron on Punisher Max Slott isn’t really telling an over arching story. His run on Spiderman is a one sided conversation (almost trolling) with the loudest/dumbest group of Spidey fanboys on the internet. Yes death threats to Slott are way out of line and disqusting. And I’ll even say that Spiderman is up there with Superman as one of the hardest comic book properties to write. But this is a story in the cheapest sense of the word. At best it’s a hacky meta commentary on Spiderman’s legacy and at worst it’s fan fiction. If you like it I respect that but please don’t hide behind “it’s comic. this happens” argument as a sheild against criticism of the story line.

  21. HankChinaski says:

    “It is a reactive world…try to be active.” Good words Kevin Smith.

  22. Mhominick says:

    I’ve been a longtime fan of this site but had never felt the need to comment until now. I think what frustrates me about this story arc is the redundancy of it.

    When I read these “death” stories I think of all the writers sitting in a conference room trying to come up with the next great thing and then, after a morning of frustration, one of them, holding his head in his hands, blurts out in a voice that’s growing weak under the stress, “we could kill “xyz” character.” Suddenly everyone grumbles their relief and they go about their day. Several months later, in the same room, everyone is once again out of ideas: “uh-hem…maybe we could bring “xyz” character back.” and everyone responds, “sounds good…let’s get some lunch.” It’s all so mundane but it does make me have even greater respect for the writers who could evolve a series without feeling the need to knock off the main character.

    • markish markish says:

      Listen to the Word Balloon podcast with Dan Slott. What you describe is absolutely not how this story came about.

    • Mhominick says:

      @markish – thank you for your reply and I’ll have to check out those podcasts… I was being facetious – I don’t actually think this is how it works, but it does cause me, as a reader, to shrug and say, “here we go again.” Maybe I’ve just seen too many ***epic*** deaths, or maybe I’m still bent out of shape over Steve Rogers death and resurrection, or maybe I can still remember when Superman “died” to drive sales, or when I paid the phone company so Jason Todd would go away (what, even he is back?!)… sigh… it’s feels that death in the comic book world has become so tiresome.

      All I can say is that, for example, I love what Mark Waid is doing with Daredevil. He took a character who Frank Miller masterfully reinvented and reinvented him again! He didn’t even have to kill him (Daredevil, not Frank). That’s what impresses me now. I’m a fan of seeing the character written in new ways and using creativity to tell a story that hasn’t been told in 50+ years. Maybe that’s what happening “NOW”, but I guess I’ll just have to wait and see…that is, until Peter ultimately returns.

      Again, first time I posted to the board so I appreciate your feedback and your other comments throughout this thread.

  23. chronotis chronotis says:

    Just relax man. Peter Parker abides. Let’s enjoy the Doc Ock ride. Its nice to see a less black and white super hero story.

  24. glennsim says:

    I’m not particularly upset either way, but logically speaking, “don’t get mad, it’s not permanent” isn’t really a viable statement. People aren’t mad because they think it’s permanent – they are mad because it is happening at all.

    They have had something taken away from them, even for a short amount of time, and they are complaining about that.

    That said, such complaints are only valid for a couple more months, and then acceptance of the status quo pretty much needs to set in. Not to mean that people who don’t want to read this should read it, but only that people should have some level of expectation of shakeups from corporate characters like this and therefore shouldn’t keep posting endless complaints. You don’t want to be that person who is still complaining about the DC relaunch 15 months later.

  25. BC1 BC1 says:

    The thing that makes me hopeful for this new status quo is that the recent history of “dead” characters and their aftermath has been overall good. Think about the following:

    Steve Rogers dies.
    Internets sez “6 months to a year he’ll be back. meh.”
    Interim: Great “The Confession” one-shot and years of very good “Bucky Cap” stories by Brubaker.

    Bruce Wayne dies.
    Internets sez “6 months to a year he’ll be back. meh.”
    Interim: Morrison’s “Batman and Robin” and Snyder’s “Detective” run, followed by Morrison’s “Batman, Inc.” when Bruce Wayne returned.

    Johnny Storm dies.
    Internets sez “6 months to a year he’ll be back. meh.”
    Interim: One of the best FF/Fantastic Four runs ever, with Johnny’s “death” having a pivotal role in the outcome.

    Charles Xavier dies. Again.
    Internets sez “6 months to a year he’ll be back. meh.”
    Interim: So far, a really cool “All New X-Men” book by Bendis.

    In all cases, the death of the character kicked off a creative renaissance on the related titles, leading to some of the best story-telling in the history of the medium. And in all cases, the death was planned as part of a long game. Slott has shown he’s been playing a long game (100+ issues – not even Hickman and Morrison can beat that for long term planning). So, let’s have some faith here and let the stories play out. If you give it a shot and don’t like it, fine. But all this pre-judgement of what’s going to happen isn’t quite fair.

    • LeviHunt15 LeviHunt15 says:

      Awesome. This is what I’m talking about 100%. In all of these cases that you pointed out, and I think the same applies to this death (along with the Ultimate Spidey death) these deaths were planned by writers as important moments in the story they are telling. People act as if Marvel and DC demand that their writers kill a character, as if the writers don’t matter.

      That’s what I found so offensive about what Mike Romo wrote, he’s completely writing off the writer’s intent and talking about this as if Marvel is demanded that all Spider-Men die just to piss on their fans. These deaths aren’t about manipulating people, it’s about the writers feeling strongly about writing a story. The marketing is something else entirely, but the stories deserve more credit.

    • Conor Kilpatrick Conor Kilpatrick (@cskilpatrick) says:

      @LeviHunt15: While it’s a testament to the skill of the writers that good stories come out of these character “deaths”, and while on occasion these stories come directly from the writers themselves, it is incredibly naive to think that these “deaths” aren’t, for the most part, mandated by the company. Especially since Marvel has been transparent to their investors that they plan to drive sales by having one major death a quarter.

    • LeviHunt15 LeviHunt15 says:

      Looking specifically at three of the four characters mentioned about (Steve Rodgers, Bruce Wayne, Johnny Storm not Xavier though) and both iterations of Peter Parker, all of these characters deaths were planned by the writers themselves early on in the process. I don’t doubt that the companies mandate death (why did Wasp die in Secret Invasion? That was just stupid) but many times the deaths were originally planned out as necessary story beats. And I think it’s a disservice to Slott to say that the Parker death is nothing more than a Marvel mandated gimmick along the lines of Winter Soldier or Thors death in Fear Itself or Wasp in Secret Invasion. Listen to any interview with Slott, he has had this planned for years and the story means a lot to him, which is why it’s annoying at least to dismiss this as a manipulation by the company.

  26. J-Nel J-Nel says:

    I haven’t read ASM since Slott initially took over the writing chores a couple years ago and showed me just what my limit was for accepting fantastic visuals by one of my favorite artists (Humberto Ramos) with stories riddled with non-stop pop culture references and desperately annoying “humorous” dialogue.

    That said, I don’t share most comics fans’ rage at the tired 80s movie, er, “Superior Spider-Man” status quo of Doc Ock switching bodies with Peter. I just think that it seems like a total waste of the goodwill the mostly so far so good Marvel NOW! publishing initiative could has garnered for reintroducing the company’s flagship character.

    It’s downright weird way to try to reintroduce Spider-Man to new readers and those of us who do hold Pete dear are gonna have to wait until the inevitable Marvel NOW! “Amazing Spider-Man” hits (I’ll take anyone on art, just get Slott out of there)…

  27. Neb Neb says:

    The second half of this piece really summed up why I haven’t bought any of the Marvel NOW books. Marvel has really turned me off a lot of their titles because I just felt like I was being maniuplated into buying more titles a month. Double shipping has especially irked me, and I am amazed by the amount of Marvel NOW product that’s come out in the last few months.

    I have been saving money and putting it toward more independent books that have at least brought an equal amount of enjoyment to my stack. I guess, in a way, Marvel has taught me how to be a bit more discerning and concious of my purchases, which in turn has made me a more diverse reader.

    I appreciate that even though Mike shares an opinion many may or may not disagree with, he was at least able to do it in a well thought out, reasoned way. Some of the other Internet responses have been pretty outrageous.

  28. stevetwo stevetwo says:

    Sometimes I think about how the adventures of past icons and their creators. Few changed the direction of their characters – and for better or worse, we now see and can mostly identify the better stories and the ones that weren’t so good. Nevertheless, we still love the characters as a whole:

    Sherlock Holmes: Doyle killed him off but brought him back due to reader’s demands. Were those readers sitting on a porch step saying to each other, “he’s just GOTTA bring Sherlock back!”? Did readers complain about, or did Edgar Rice Burroughs ever consider he might ruin the character, where two dozen Tarzan novels features the jungle man doing basically the same thing in every book: swinging around, killing natives and rescuing kidnapped ladies ? Did Walt Disney feel trapped when Mickey Mouse’s personality evolved from adorable rascal to goodie goodie – so while other pals like Donald or Goofy had crazy, violent and oft-putting stories, Mickey’s adventures stayed plain vanilla?

    Things that make you go ‘meh.’

  29. Grandturk says:

    If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. You’re not waiting in line for bread here, people.

  30. ClasikRok ClasikRok says:

    In the immortal words of the great Tom Cruise (or more accurately writer/director Paul Brickman), “Sometimes you just gotta say, “What the fuck, make your move.” ”

    Read it you want. Don’t read it if you don’t. It’s Comics, not the End of the World.

    • bub64882 bub64882 says:

      I would just say to you and Grandturk…This is a comments discussion site! To deter discussion on these matters here seems…odd.

      If you are just saying that we should measure our passion, sure…Your not wrong. But keep in mind this is many folks’ favorite character.

    • Seriously, I hate this “Don’t like it, don’t talk about it!” shit. It’s a comment section, homeboy. That means everybody can talk, positive or negative. That’s kinda how discussion works.

    • Grandturk says:

      Now don’t be hypocritical, homeboyz.

      If one guy can have an opinion, so can anyone else. Otherwise, everyone’s got to shut up.

    • ClasikRok ClasikRok says:

      I’m not saying don’t have an opinion, I’m just saying don’t have a stroke :)

      Spidey’s my favorite character too!

  31. Heysideburns Heysideburns says:

    Bravo Mike! I enjoyed this very much.

  32. webhead921 webhead921 (@Grapes4Lunch) says:

    I thought Peter’s death in Ultimate Spider-man was very well done. It felt like a satisfying conclusion to Peter’s story, and Miles story felt like a new, separate chapter. The renumbering felt natural, because Miles’ story is a separate story. ASM 700 is not a bad story, but it just feels like part of a 6 or 12 issue arc that could just take place in the regular Amazing Spider-man book. The hype and renumbering feels unnecessary.

  33. BanjoDuck BanjoDuck says:

    Here’s a crazy comparison: comic book deaths and controversies are like Taylor Swift’s relationships: they never last. Do they make for good material? I’ve never heard her music, so….maybe? But for comics, it’s all part of a bigger story. So are people more upset about the way that comics work in general, or with what they (Marvel/Slott/Whoever) are doing with this character?

  34. player1 player1 says:

    He’s the action figure that gets taken of of the toybox the most.

    We love him more, so more stories get told about him.

    If we want to make the hero hurt, then our favorite hero is gonna get croaked a lot.

    Next year something equally “shocking” will be done and undone again.

    8)

  35. J-Nel J-Nel says:

    Just to lighten the mood, which 1988 body-switching movie can we blame for this, “Vice-Versa” “Like Father, Like Son” or “18 Again”. If Judge Reinhold is the inspiration for Otto all is forgiven…

  36. I had no intention of buying this comic even though I love Slott and Spider-Man.

    But this comment thread has ensured my purchase.

  37. zoobatz says:

    I think it’s just lazy writing. If you don’t have a Peter Parker story to tell, you don’t have a Spider-Man story to tell. it’s interesting because Peter Parker is Spider-Man, not Otto. Monthly comic books are serials because we like to follow a character, remove the character we’ve been following and the serial nature dies away. I think the creators are forced to make a sales splash nowadays and that is why we end up with story lines like these. Upsetting that the companies seem unaware of the successes of comics with a single vision or story to tell. Look at Hawkeye or Daredevil, free reign for the creators to tell their stories and they are very successful. If we the consumer see this, and obviously we do, why can’t they. Maybe I’m naive, maybe the sales from this gimmick justify it, but I hope not.

  38. JSAkid JSAkid says:

    We all know he’ll be back, I for one hoped for a better candidate for Spidey’s fill in but there is a time machine in ASM and 2 yrs from now or a yr,Spiderman2099 could use it to revert Peter Parker back to Spidey in that moment in time at Doc Ocks death bed and actually watch him die this time,that would not only be a really good full circle comeback but resonate Spidey2099 as a more substantial character.

  39. delphan says:

    These sorts of arguments about the “right” way to feel about a topic are always interesting. No one was threatened during Mike’s article. There was no swearing or personal insults, that I noticed. It seemed like a reasonably argued explanation of how he felt about the decisions made by the creators and how he planned to respond.

    Not liking the change is not the same as resisting all change.

    If the next Batman reboot had him wearing a pink leotard and sequins, that would be a change! Would disagreeing with it mean you wanted comics to stagnate and never change? Or is it the majority that rules.

    Mike has the right not to read something he feels he will not enjoy.

  40. APoetSomeday APoetSomeday says:

    This is how I felt after reading ‘Civil War’, ‘Old Man Logan’ and anything ‘Spider Man’ related back in 2007-2009. I dropped Marvel entirely for very similar reasons as mentioned in this article.

    FYI – you’re allowed to get upset at things that happen in stories. In fact, you’re supposed to. If you just read the books and go “oh, I see” then the writers and artists have failed in their mission. It doesn’t make you some sort of super-nerd just because you care about a character. Obviously, there are those overreacting, but this piece makes a very valid point.

    • Why didn’t you like Old Man Logan? Just curious.

    • APoetSomeday APoetSomeday says:

      It was mainly that, to my mind, it represented a horrible misuse of a character.

      The thing is, I know that all these character’s get reinvented constantly. They have origins tweaked, costumes changed, backstories retconned…And so on, but to me, there are certain untouchable character elements unique to each of them. These can be driving emotional needs, central preoccupations and deep character flaws. These qualities represent the ‘soul’ of a character.

      I found ‘Old Man Logan’ simply dismissed everything about the character and, as such, was a thoroughly unsatisfying Wolverine story. It could have been about anybody really. But whoever he was, that character wasn’t, in any way, the Logan I knew and loved.

      Of course, its a minority view, but I hated that book and it actively turned me off from Marvel.

  41. Bonidex Bonidex says:

    I hope they keep Peter dead and let his amazing story come to an end.
    Seriously, am I the only one who loved the #700 and the death story? Really?

  42. “but I am really supposed to believe that Doctor Octopus is going to be a good guy because he had some flashback of a bunch of memories that were somehow that much more poignant than his own messed up life that made him turn to evil in the first place?”

    Seems like this is nearly the same conceit used by Morrison in All Star-Superman when Luthor takes the superpower serum, sees the world the way Superman does, and turns “good.” That plot point did not at all detract from Morrison’s story which is a modern day classic.

    So to actually answer your rhetorical question, I would say: Yes, try to suspend your disbelief if you are able.

  43. SteveL7 SteveL7 (@SteveL7) says:

    Why does everyone get so worked up over this? They always bring back characters from the dead, it’s only temporary.

  44. This article annoyed me more than it probably should have. I dislike the complaints of change. Who wants to read the same old thing for years and years? Peter Parker has been spider-man for too long without any real change. Who didn’t love Dick Grayson being Batman for awhile? I know I did. I’m glad to embrace any change as long as it is well written and interesting. Superior Spider-Man is well written and interesting. Boo to those who won’t even try it.

  45. Apotheosize Apotheosize says:

    Bring back Spider-Ham!

  46. For the most part I agree with you or at least what you’re trying to say about character death but so far I can’t see this “death” as comparable to the death of Ultimate Spider-Man. That could just be an unwillingness to accept reality but this death does not feel at all real to me and I fully expect Peter to be back in his own body within the year. However I find the death of ultimate Peter particularly irksome because Bendis and Alsono have made it abundantly clear through numerous interviews that while they remain in the positions they are in ultimate Peter will not be coming back.

    Now admittedly I am not so naive as to believe marvel would not lie to us but I believe ultimate Peter will likely stay dead if for no reason other than Marvel will likely keep its word for the next few years and I don’t expect the ultimate universe to be around much longer as it stands now. We can’t bring peter back if the universe is gone. The idea of a permanent death in comics is silly and with a title character borderline offensive.

    For those saying this somehow means I am opposed to change I say you’re wrong. I loved how Peter’s world changed after ultimatum and I looked forward to many more years of changes, but I read the book to see how Peter grew and reacted to a changing world because it was his book. Killing Peter should have been the end of the series, picking up dangling plot threads and expecting me to follow them in a completely different book by slapping on the same title is disrespectful, and for that I have lost a great deal of faith in marvel.

  47. tripleneck tripleneck (@tripleneck) says:

    @ Mike Romo

    Just wondering if you read Superior #1. If so, do you still feel the same?

    SPOILERS BELOW WARNING —–

    Personally, I’m not even considering this a death in the usual sense for Big 2 comics. Peter Parker’s body never died and now we know that Peter’s mind isn’t gone either. At least that’s how I’m interpreting what I read.

  48. Lebahn Lebahn says:

    Comics are supposed to be fun, funny, spooky, and whatever else you can add to that list. When people get overwrought about them…it’s time to take a break or admit you finally outgrew them. I may not be happy about things from time to time but in the end…I’m the one putting down the 3.99 for a twenty minute reality break. Why? Because I choose to. Look at why you want to read a comic before you complain you are being FORCED to…cause your not.

    The article was articulate…the responses…less than.

  49. IroncladMerc says:

    Always funny how people complain about things in comics and then still continue to buy the books. If you don’t like the situation, stop buying Superior Spider-Man. Simple. Don’t give them money. They will have no choice but to bring back Peter Parker then and reinstate Amazing Spider-Man. But if you keep buying it, you are encouraging Marvel to keep the status quo.

  50. Ghoast says:

    The issue isn’t wether or not Parker is going to come back, the issue is feeling cheated. Even if he does come back and the pick up at 701, I won’t be reading it. 700 was cheap and lame.

    When they kill off characters they should stay dead, no exceptions.

  51. dandelion says:

    And see, this is why I’m not really getting into reading comics, even though I’m a huge Spider-Man fan. Honestly, it’s BECAUSE I’m a fan. You’re exactly right: Marvel has this weird idea that killing off Peter brings sales up and sure, maybe that’s true. He’s the only superhero I like so obviously I’m unhappy when he dies, but I understand. Well, not really, but I won’t go crazy over it. My real problem is how they never seem to do it with any sort of honor or respect.

    I mean, every time 616 Peter’s been killed off it’s been kept secret and nobody/only a select group of people knew. It’s always shrouded in secrecy. If they’re going to kill him, then couldn’t Marvel once, just ONCE, give him a huge public funeral and make people like Jameson mourn the guy? Why does he never get the BENEFITS that comicverse death brings other people, like it did for Johnny Storm? He got those statues, remember, ‘in gratitude’. If they would just do something like that, if they’d end Peter’s run with the city acknowledging its loss, then I’d be more ok with killing him off. There’s just one thing.

    Spider-Man isn’t a legacy hero.

    He isn’t like Batman, who’s any man behind the mask, and he isn’t Superman or Captain America to represent an ideal. Spider-Man is a PERSON. He’s Peter Parker. And yeah, I’m opposed to anyone other than Peter taking up the mantle, because in my opinion it ISN’T some mantle you can pick up. I have nothing against Miles Morales as a character, and if he’d started out as a completely different hero I might have even read his books. But why’d they have to make him the ‘new’ Spider-Man? Why does 616 Spidey have to be filled in by Doc Ock? When the Human Torch died, the city knew he was dead. The city got to mourn him. And nobody started prancing around as Torch 2.0 because he’s a unique person, and his superhero identity was HIM, not a mask to be passed down.

    Spider-Man’s like that. His powers aren’t great at all, and he only has the webbing because he happened to be a nerd. It’s Peter with his responsibility and bravery who makes up Spider-Man. He’s nothing more than Peter Parker with a mask over his face; no other person can be Spider-Man, just some guy with similar powers. I wish if Marvel insists on killing him off that they’d show some respect for the person who’s led their company for fifty years.

  52. DenEColt DenEColt says:

    I stopped reading Spider-Man after the, what I considered to be the biggest cop out in comics, deal with Mephisto to save Aunt May’s life. Here was a chance to move Peter’s life forward, to show new depths to the character and the characters he interacted with. May should have died – it was the obvious outcome, and the stories, the build up had me hooked. And then? Marvel blew it. Couldn’t upset the franchise, couldn’t do what was best for the character, no, far better to leave him in Charlie Brown land, forever in arrested development limbo. I perused a couple of the “new day” comics and gave up; I’d already been there. I no longer cared. There’s a difference between rebooting characters to bring them into a new decade and to a new audience and to cynically building them up only to dump them back at square one – it’s laziness, it’s corporate fear, at worst it’s contempt, both for the character and the audience.
    So Peter Parker is dead? And Doc Octopus is the new Spider-Man? Have sales of #700 gone through the roof? Is Jim Shooter back at Marvel?
    Meanwhile the “dead” Prof X’s brain is now somehow residing within the Red Skull (not the first time the Skull has switched bodies/minds either). Seems a little too similar in concept to me. And that’s another cancellation coming up! Death in comics always seems too casual; it’s always a means to some other end when in fact it should be about giving characters lives emotional resonance.