Today over on the DC Comics Blog, DC announce a major publishing initiative for 2010 – Earth One. An all new series of graphic novels, featuring DC Comics' biggest characters: Superman and Batman. They'll be publishing two graphic novels for each character. Superman: Earth One will be written by J. Michael Straczynski with art by Shane Davis, and Batman: Earth One will be written by DC superstar Geoff Johns and his long time Superman collaborator Gary Frank.
This announcement is interesting for a few reasons:
– This is the first time, as far as I know, that Geoff Johns has tackled Batman in a dedicated fashion
– These projects are NOT monthly books, rather graphic novels, and the line of Earth One books is described as a "Series of OGNs" – could this be the beginning of a format shift at DC Comics?
– Finally, for you continuity nerds, this is a NEW Earth, with a NEW continuity – no messy history to bog it down
Now obviously this is an attempt to reach the book market, as well as casual comic fans, which I cannot criticize at all. Self contained stories by some great creators with characters that we all know and love? That's not a bad thing. If the history of the DCU and the continuity of each character is important to you, then that's okay too, as far as I can tell those aren't going anywhere.
But I can't help but to think and wonder if this isn't the second attempt at what they originally planned/hoped to do with the All-Star line, which ultimately gave us Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely's epic run on All-Star Superman, but All-Star Batman with Frank Miller and Jim Lee was riddled with lateness and there has yet to be another All-Star book since. Maybe DC has learned from those books and this graphic novel format with complete stories is what they came up with.
Check out some art from the books:
So what's the verdict? Does this mean the death of the monthly at DC? Are you up in arms over ANOTHER series of continuity to follow? Or are you psyched just to see Geoff Johns take on Batman?
UPDATE: Check out the official interview about these books with J. Michael Straczynsi and Geoff Johns at Ain't It Cool News.
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I think this is just their attempt to do what people thought All-Star was going to be in a real straight forward way. I’m really hoping they give Wonder Woman the same treatment too.
VERY excited for Mr. Johns and Mr. Frank on Batman.
Do we know anything about the length of these? I wonder if we are going to get something the size of the Lobo "issue" that was POTW a few weeks ago?
I am very interested in seeing how this works. IF these sell well, I fully expect this to be remembered as the first big move in the transition away from monthly issues.
Geoff. Freaking. Johns. Writing. Batman. ‘Nuff said.
At only 2 OGNs coming out each year for each series I’ll stick to my monthly’s. I dont want to have to wait 6 months after finishing one story to get the next – I’ll lose interest in those 6 months!
I’m not sure why you’d lose interest, I don’t get bored of Discworld waiting a year (or more) between books, same with Harry Potter, and all sorts of other series of books I’ve read.
Advantages:
Format should make it easier for DC to find another company other than Diamond to publish their material.
Sporadic release will generate excitement rather than being a mundane monthly occurence.
Less chance of having another ‘Legion of three worlds’ schedualing incident
Encourages comic geeks to show their true colours by having all the latest stories visiable from a book shelf.
Becomes harder to pad a finished story (ala Blue Beetle after End Game) with filler issues
Disadvantages:
No more big crossover events every year (cant have an event in every second volume)
No more excessive cameos
No more tie-ins or family books (people arnt willing to read two books at the same time and flip back and forth)
No more filler issues
Real Disadvantages:
This is going to hit comic stores pretty hard if it takes off, and considering everything that comic shops have done for us, I think we should spare a thought for them.
The iFanboy team will have to read a few full length novels in a day for their pick of the week podcast
Johns’ take on Batman should be interesting and fresh. I’m not quite sure why they are using the earth-1 moniker. This along with Azarello’s new books should give DC plenty of corners to play with.
Also, Johns twitter feed reveals that the villian of `Batman: Earth One` will be the Riddler
I am so down for this, haven’t heard about when these books will be coming, but I will be getting both. This, to me, is awesome.
@Incredibledave-I’m not sure how you got your list of disadvantages. I don’t see how this will lead to any of those.
I’m excited for anything that is self-contained and can go on my shelf rather than a box. The creative teams are solid and I can’t wait for these two to drop.
Dont give a rats a$$ what it means for the biz, only care to read them and enjoy them, if they are good. And I don’t even buy any DC floppies. I eagerly await.
Was Shane Davis the guy who did Final Crisis: Rage of the Red Lanterns?
I loved his art in that one, but haven’t seen him since
My inclination is that I won’t buy these particular books, but I’d like to see them succeed and set a precedent for more OGN’s featuring Big Two characters.
I wonder how realistic it is to expect them to make a huge splash in the book market, though. If the point is to reach people who don’t read comics in issues, how does this look any different on the shelf than a dozen other Batman or Superman books? You need a knowledgable retailer to push them.
@gobo I wouldn’t lose interest enough not to read the next book, but I would forget about it until 6 months later when it pops up on shelves. With monthlys, however, the characters and happenings of the past month are still bouncing around my head when I pick up the next issue, and I like that a lot. It makes the comics feel more like one fluent story rather than chapters.
@ohcaroline – That is an excellent point. What is DC doing to distinguish these from their other trades? Marketing will be ESSENTIAL.
Makes a lot of sense.
Trades in the likes of Barnes & Noble reach a wider audience.
Good idea to try and get these out to a larger audience without the encumberment of past history to read.
Batman art looks great,, not so sure about the Superman pic (Too many highlights)
The idea of Johns’ writing the Batman rogues is incredibly enticing. I also like the OGN format over single issues. Sounds great to me.
I haven’t bought a comic in months. But I will buy Johns’ Batman, no questions asked. The bad ass Alfred is enough of a selling point..
@drakedangerz
Im kinda pulling these ‘disadvantages’ out of my ass, but I dont think they’re too far from the truth.
>No more big crossover events every year (cant have an event in every second volume)
If these Graphic Novels, we can expect them to be anywhere from 4 – 8 issues in length. So three issues a year if you’re feeling optimistic. Having every third or second book be a part of a crossover kinda takes away any specialness the event has, plus DC probably suspects that noone is kinda buy a Graphic Novel that just sets up another novel.
If you wanted to publish a GN every year with all your heroes in it, you would just call it justice league.
>No more excessive cameos
Releasing these as graphic novels means that buying them is more than a few bucks, which means a book concept isnt going to be able to realy on Batman or Spiderman to get sales.
>No more tie-ins or family books (people arnt willing to read two books at the same time and flip back and forth)
There could still be a Batman and a separete Robin ongoing in this format, but they would have to work as their own sotries, whats currently happening in the Superman universe couldnt exist in this format, (if all the separete plot threads were in a single book called ‘Superman Family’ or something, thats a different story
>No more filler issues
There will be the occasional bad stories, but kinda doesnt make sense to get a fill-in writer on a book for 22 pages while waiting for a brand new writer if its gonna be released as a GN. THey would just wait a month in that circumstance.
>Hurting Comic Shops
If DC just publishes GN, then why even bother with comic shops, book shops get more traffic and are in a better position to advertise their product
All that being said, Im happy to hear healthy discussion about how I have no idea what I’m talking about. 😀
Geoff Johns on Batman? What kind of crazy awesomeness will that entail? sign me up!
Looks good they’ll be handy to have in bookshops when the next round of movies come out
Awesome. I’d be completely happy if they threw out the monthlies and moved to a line of OGNs like these– particularly if they kept it limited and with high quality creators. E.g., one Batman book by a Johns/Frank team, one Superman book by JMS, one Grant Morrison book of some sort coming out (maybe a multiverse book).
If it were only Geoff Johns, I wouldn/t have given this a second look. But add Gary Frank and i’ll be the first in line.
@Jim Morrison is going to do Multiveristy which is a maxiseries set in a few of the 52 worlds that I think is going to be unconnected to this
i am so buying this
Johns/Frank on Batman is good news (these guys on ANYTHING would be good lol) & JMS on Superman is very good news.
New continuity is bad news. It’s a stunt to sell books, but it’s unnecessary — these guys writing OGNs of these characters would sell no matter what.
I can’t wait to see what Johns and Frank do with Batman. I am a little less interested in the JMS Superman, but that is due to personal preferences.
Im very stoked, especially the fact that this is a step in the right direction (OGNs). I’d be ecstatic to get rid of my monthies in exchange for digital/OGNs. It does seem kind of strange to me that they would be doing a new Superman origin story (if that’s what this will be) so close to the release of Secret Origin though
I’ll have to order this months in advance. My dealer has a very small shop and primarily makes his profit from key issues and weekly floppies. He can’t sell enough trades to make it worth while to get them.
Great, I don’t have to buy these! Out of continuity = no reason to buy! Wake me when they have a cross over with the real DCU.
@IroncladMerc You make me sad.
Can’t really make any judgements yet. Even after reading the news I still have no idea what to expect. Kinda burnt out on origin stories right now as well.
Are we going to have to sit through two more takes of their origins? Not that I wouldn’t still be interested, but it seems redundant.
And yes, Johns on Batman would be awesome!
@cutty
Yeah! That’s indeed Shane Davis, I remembered him from "Rage of the Red Lanterns" too! He also did a lot of covers for "Superman/Batman"!
"ULTIMATE SUPERMAN" and "ULTIMATE BATMAN" by TWO OF MY FAVORITE WRITERS and ONE OF MY FAVORITE PENCILLERS!!!! (Mr. Davis I really like too, I just haven’t seen enough of his stuff for him to become a favorite!)
AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
might buy this for my dad with the no continuity
i mean new continuity
Wow. Count me as the exact opposite of @IroncladMerc. 😉 I don’t know if I’ll actually buy these just because I’m not as huge a fan of Johns and/or JMS as many here, but I love the concept. I really want more stories that are NOT part of the slavish continuity of the DCU. And I think the icons like Superman and Batman work best in standalone stories. And they also have proven they work just fine outside of the tapestry of the DCU. So, I’m definitely in favor of the format and execution.
I am actively feeling torn by the:
1 – angry monday morning geek in me that doesn’t understand why this needs to happen
2 – the mellow rest of the week geek in me who applauds tryings something new
I honestly, really, don’t know what I think about this — but I will check it out. I love all of these not-Elseworlds books..
I like the idea of this and the creative teams attached. Not sure it will go over that well, though.
@Gobo Truth told if every book went to this type of format, I’d probably stop reading comics. I’m a fan of serial adventures. The month to month process is great fun for me. So I understand why some feel that way. Heck, I can’t even remember when the series I trade wait now (and that’s only 4) come out.
@ohcaroline, stuclach I picked up the new printing of Matt Fraction’s FIVE FISTS OF SCIENCE the other day from my LCS. I noticed on the back of it, where most GNs say "GRAPHIC NOVEL/COMICS" for book store shelving, it was listed as "HISTORICAL FICTION." While this isn’t a big deal, I thought it was interesting that it seems as if they’re trying to get the books shelved in with prose books instead of in the GN section. It’ll take much more than, though.
the angry geek in me hates that Superman cover a lot, though.
@PraxJarvin – That is interesting. I’d like to see trades marketed as something more than a collection. That is one way to do it.
@mikeromo – I want to hear more from the angry geek. Is he wearing a Cabaret dancer’s outfit?
@mikeromo why? is it because he looks so young?
I actually really like this idea, especially since its OGN’s. It will be much much easier to sell to people who like the movies but havent read any comics. And since its OGN’s that should make the continuity easier to maintain, look at the way manga sells.
I don’t care that they’re in Graphic novel form. The only sad part is that there is a longer wait in-between them coming out. I’m excited and a little nervous to see John’s take on Batman. It’s the one character I’ve been reserved about seeing him write.
BTW That Batman costume by Frank is AWESOME.
Geoff Johns AND Gary Frank are doing a Batman OGN?
Am I in heaven or is this a dream? Seriously this might be the greatest news of the year. This is the one character I wanted Johns to work on. I thought having Frank do the artwork would be too much to ask for. But now: Yes! Sign me up for this!
Oh and JMS doing Superman is pretty cool too. Sorry I dont mean to downplay that aspect of the news. He’s killing it on Brave and the Bold so him going on to Superman is a good thing. Probably will be better then what the New Krypton stuff we’ve been getting.
I agree with mikeromo. There’s something about that cover I don’t like…
@PraxJarvin I don’t think there’s much chance of a Batman or Superman book being shelved anywhere other than with Graphic Novels. MAYBE with sci-fi/fantasy next to the superhero tie-in books.
@ohcaroline – I could see some Batman books being stocked in mystery and/or true crime.
These could be awesome – JMS on Superman could be something very special. Johns and Frank on Batman? I’d buy that if it was done on napkins!
And as far as All-Star comparisons, I think it’s probably more an Ultimate-tizing of their characters. Take you (arguably) biggest creators, put them on your most popular characters, have them start from scratch.
OGN format – I’ll welcome it and work with it in order to get this (hopefully) quality of work from these creators.
Don’t see why it’s such a big deal but I’ll definitely check these out!!
quick question are these going to share continuity
Really looking forward to this. If this is the start of a format change for DC in that they will be shifting to all OGN’s I would LOVE that. The more I think of it, the more I hate having longboxes of monthly books in my closet. I would much rather have all my comics reading stored like my current trades are – on a bookshelf. Sure it’s still not as ideal as digital storage-wise, but it’s certainly a step up.
Can’t wait to see how Johns handles Batman, and the Gary Frank art is sure to impress. JMS on Superman though, I’ll wait and reserve judgment on that!
this is brilliant. I will probably buy both of those, despite not reading either of those characters monthly in… well, a bajillion years, practically. Very cool.
This is perfect! I love Batman and Superman, but I can’t afford to stay current with their continuity. I’ve already painfully dropped all of my Superman titles, and I’m only getting Batman and Robin. Depending on how this goes, I may be able to follow two of my favorite Superheroes much more easily and cheaply. Toss in Johns, Frank, JMS, and Davis, what more could I ask for?
I agree with the comparisons to the Ultimate line. It’s a newer, simpler universe that should be accessible to newer fans. However, the key difference here is format. New fans would be much more likely to pick up an OGN than a monthly. So to me, Ultimate Universe is for existing fans that want a new universe with different stories. Earth One is geared for new fans that like superhero movies but have no desire to read a monthly series. When my girlfriend asks, "I like Batman, what should I read?" I hem and haw, trying to decide what should be read in what order. Next time she asks, I will hopefully be able to point to these books and say, "Start with book one. Then read book two."
I’m hoping that instead of "Start with book one." we can just say "Go pick up a Batman Earth-One book", and the order won’t matter.
No numbers on the spine please, make these more or less one and done like a CSI or Law and Order. I want these to try and serve a different market than the continuity/completion obsesssed comic people who are already happy with single issues.
@mikeromo: The colors are indeed horrible.
@gobo: Numbers on the spines sure didn’t hurt HARRY POTTER (or any other series of prose books out there).
Harry Potter was a serialized thing with a finite beginning and end. If we want serialized comics there’s plenty of choice. I’m thinking more like Discworld (no numbers, and one of the best selling series until Potter came along) or the Star Trek/Wars books.
Sure there’s stuff that pays off for the long time reader and fan but you can also just pick up a random book and not be scared off by "Oh, this is number 4 I need to read the first 3 before hand"
Count me as psyched!
I know JMS is something of a hot button topic to bandy about here at iFanboy, and I can understand why, but I like him, and his work for the most part. I’m quite anxious to see his approach on Superman, and I have been waiting for this since his debute on Amazing Spider-Man, knowing of his love for the character.
As per Batman… I love the fact that their Alfred looks hardcore. And I’m glad to see the yellow oval return.
So count me in!
-J.
I’m on the fence with this one. First thing to say is ther is a 99% chance i will get both of these because I love JMS, and I love Gary Frank. Johns is okay (loved Society, Sinestro Wars, and his Action run but the BN thing really does nothing for me) but I’m interested in his take on Batman.
That being said, I think this is a good idea in theory, and it would only really work (at least as long as monthlies and current DCU continuity continue to exist) as a new and seperate continuity. I think it could possibly grab some new readers and if they like what they read, they may decide to start following these characters in standard DCU continuity. At least that is my hope for these OGN’s. I am very much NOT in favour of the discontinuation of the monthlies. If and when the switch to all GN format happens, I am likely to fall way back on my comic consumption. I hope that doesn’t happen but I suppose times change and if I’m in the minority here I will understand, but I really don’t see that happening at least for the next 5 years but who knows.
And I do agree that switch would mean the end of the local comic stores which would be a shame because even though the tables full of people playing D & D and Magic annoy me on Wednesdays, I love the heated discussions and debates I get into about comics everytime I go into the shop. Its something I look forward to every week and it would be a shame to lose that interaction. Discussions in cyber space are okay, but not nearly as fun for me. But I digress…
Superman’s eyes on that cover looks a bit off, but other then that I’m fine with it.
I shouldn’t be discounting JMS doing Superman either. Cause there is a wealth of ideas I’m sure to come out of that man for the character. Maybe it can be a bit more of a psychological look at Sups, like how he functions by bean the ‘god’ of the DCU.
@gobo: Maybe have the spine have a tiny picture that corresponds to the other volumes? Like manga does that from time to time (i.e. DragonBall Z)
@gobo There was over a decade and a half of numbered Star Trek books and it never stopped them from selling well (Better than they do now, too.). They only stopped numbering when they did the "official" continuations of each series starting in 2003. 😉
@TNC I think as long as the dress is the same and it’s clear it’s part of a series (like the series I listed earlier) that’s enough. Also a list of other books in the series in the front (again like the series I mentioned) would be perfect. It makes it clear there are other books but you can start reading at any point and not feel obligated to read Vol 1 first (which might be out of print or sold out)
Oh and if they throw in a map of Gotham City, Metropolis or Smallville in the front of them it wouldn’t hurt either 😉
@Hazer75 Comic shops are fun and all but having that be (basically) the only place to buy comics only hurts the comic industry, why make it more difficult to get people to try out what should be as easy to try as any other kind of printed media?
@PraxJarvin I’m thinking Star Wars/Trek were a bad example because there’s more than a few shared personality traits between Star Trek readers and monthly comic book readers. You’ve got to be a pretty die hard fan to stay up to date with either.
@Gobo I’d argue that numbers would have been a Godsend in The New Jedi Order series. It was a total bitch trying to figure out what goes where in that series.
@incredibledave – you’re analyzing these as if they’ll be the only comics coming out. I think that’s assuming a lot.
@anson17 That’s my point though, in my mind you shouldn’t HAVE to worry about the order of these. If the goal is to try and get new fans in then they shouldn’t be just thick versions of monthly issues where you have to read them all in order to get the story.
Everyone here on iFanboy is probably pretty ok with following continuity, I’d wager that’s one of the bigger things keeping the average joe from picking up a trade at Borders.
We have our comic books already, lets try and make these for civilians.
@Gobo – I was saying that series was harmed because of it’s lack of numbers. It had a thick continuity that I definitely think would have been assuaged by some kind of order.
I completely agree with you that they shoulnd’t be extended issues, but if this is some sort of "new continuity" then these will be serial stories. Whether or not you need all of them to understand it has yet to be seen.
Glad to see DC approaching things in a different way. I’m excited for the possibilities these hold, both for the market at large and for the creators.
I think, for the Superman image, the coloring just doesn’t look all that great. I’m sure the pencils are fine, but it looks too overcolored and way too…shiny.
@gobo: "Civilians" like continuity too. They enjoy it in serialized television and film series and book series.
I’d buy that Batman book in a heartbeat. The Superman book on the other hand? Eh… depends on the price point.
Still a little too early for me to form an opinion on the concept. We still haven’t seen the crucial price point vs. page count info. I, for one, am hoping that we don’t just get something the size of a standard 5-6 issue trade for the normal price. I’d prefer something thicker, maybe as if it were 10-12 issues. They really need to take advantage of the fact that this format is perfect for longer, denser stories.
@gobo Hey, I’m all for comics being available in as many places as possible and I understand how comics shops are an aquired taste for the non geek type readers. Just saying an all GN format would destroy the shops that specialize in comics. I don’t see Barnes and Noble taking kindly to heated in store discussions, peoples pull lists being ready when they arrive etc. Not to mention your guy knowing what new stuff you may like if you forgot something was coming out. I suppose the rate we’re going tho in 5 years the only place to buy any books or traditional printed material (if they even print any material on paper anymore) will be Amazon.
Sorry for getting a bit off the orignal topic ;-D
@anson17 Why do they have to be serial stories to be in a "new continuity"? I can pop on any episode of Bones and not be lost, but at the same time I’m rewarded with watching a few because I learn more about the characters and pick up bits and pieces of the characters personal lives.
I really (REALLY) think these should be episodic, not serialized.
I think that we’re missing the point. These books seem to me (I have never been wrong before, ever) to be reaching to a new audience in a different supply chain other than the direct market.
@ato220: I don’t think anyone has missed that point.
@conor But we already HAVE comic books laden in continuity and serialized. Those exist and are already at Borders. Why do more of the same if they’re trying to target a new audience?
@gobo: Who said they should be laden in continuity?
@conor If they aren’t laden in continuity I really feel like having the numbers will do more harm then good. It will make people think that have to read Volume 1 before they read Volume 4 or 5.
@Gobo. I’m not being clear, that’s my fault. I’d prefer if they were episodic (like you.) I love the OGN’s that take place outside of normal continuity. I was saying, if they are serialized they better be numbered. Otherwise, you’re just adding a level of confusion to the mix. I think we both want the same thing.
@gobo: I disagree that it’s a big problem. I think it’s a sensative subject in comics circles, but other people seem to have no problem with numbered television shows, prose books and movies.
Definitely think this is an interesting experiment. Will we look back on this as the first day that the industry started to move away from singles? I really hope not. The Supes one leaves me cold, but I definitely vote for the Batman book – can’t wait!
@anson17 I don’t think it would be confusing at all, if you don’t have to read them in order there’s no reason to give them numbers.
Discworld is a perfect example of genre fiction that pulls it off, in the broader world there’s plenty of mystery series’ that are all set in a broader world but can be read in any order and have no numbers on the spines (and I believe also sell gangbusters)
I was saying if you do need to read them in order, then numbers don’t hurt. I understand why you’re saying that numbers make them confusing, but like Conor’s saying, "civilians" have no problem with numbered seasons or movies. I think we might be focusing a little much on the wrong thing. I’m just excited for the projects, no matter how they come out. (unless, of course, they’re complete shit.)
Now for my next mis-step. This seems very reminiscent of the Ultimate launch up Marvel. An attempt in taking a fresh look at established characters that is accessable to a new audience. Granted the format is different. I also wonder how much of this new direction is the result of the new management? Understandably publishing decisions and strategies don’t come quickly in a company as large as Warner Bros.
@conor: You’re right, but I hate to see the conversation go towards "this means the end of what I love or this is going to change my comic landscape for the worse". If anything this is just simple addition to the audience which in my mind is never a bad thing.
@conor I just don’t feel they add anything unless it’s a finite series (like Harry Potter, Narnia or LOTR). If these go into the 20-30 volume realm it will become intimidating to someone who might just want to pick one up.
Do you know anyone who just picked up Harry Potter volume 4 without reading the first 3 (or watching the first 3 movies first?) Jumped into Narnia with Dawntreader? Started with Return of the King? Once we get past a handful I think numbering will do more harm than good.
I regularly hear people not wanting to watch a TV show or see a movie if they haven’t seen whatever episodes/movies that came before it. Even if you explain it to them that you can just jump in whenever and it’ll be fine.
I think we’ll probably just have to agree to disagree on this one though. We’re both excited about the possibilites, volume numbers are a silly thing to get into a long argument about 🙂
@ato220 – I didn’t wanna be the first one, but this definitely makes me think of the Ultimtate Line (and that’s not a bad thing)
I’m reminded of the "lemon tree" episode of the Simpsons, when the boys are about to venture into Shelbyville and are treating the border between the towns like crossing it will change their entire lives, while in the background the girls are flying kites and running back and forth completely oblivious to the fact that the border exists. These books are likely targeted at people who will never give a second thought to numbering or continuity or anything else that we few, we happy few think of as mind-blowingly important.
Personally, while I do place some importance on the characters involved, really the only thing I care about are the creators. If Geoff Johns and Gary Frank are doing Batman, I could care less how many pages it is, what the publishing schedule is, or what "universe" it happens in. As long as it’s those people telling a complete story, what have I got to lose? Honestly?
So who would you guys like to see on other Earth One books?
Green Lantern – Earth One
Flash – Earth One
Wonder Woman – Earth One
Maybe Aquaman? Metamorpho?
Just for me I’d love a Metamorpho – Earth One done by Gaiman/Allred, but that might just be me.
Young Bruce had great hair, didn’t he?
Really, self? "the only thing I care about are"?
Me fail English? That’s unpossible!
Geoff Johns on a Batman book? Awesome. I cant wait for this.
I’ll be honest, I’m not going to read the previous posts. I saw something about continuity and decided to stick needles in my eyes instead
@Jimski, even if you fail at english, you win the internet today. Thank you.
The original post has been updated with a link to an interview about these books.
Johns writing Batman is enough for me to pick up the Batman OGN. I’m extremely curious about his take on the character. I wonder what size these will be in?
@Gobo: I know what you’re saying. My example could have been more clear. Like you, I want this to be accessible to ‘civillians.’ I am hoping that the books are structured like a fantasy series like Redwall, Dragonriders of Pern, or Wheel of Time. That is, it’s safest to read them in the order of publication. They fit into a larger continuity, but tell a distinct and complete story on their own. That way, somebody could pick up any book and get the story, yet still have much more to read if the story interests them. What I meant in my example is that if my girlfriendd wanted to read Superman’s origin, which one does she chose from? If she wants to know Superman’s origin on Earth One, I’ll give her book 1. If she wants a cool story with the Joker, I’ll giver her book 8. I don’t want to have to explain to her about how the DCU has changed over various crisis events. Her eyes glaze over, I’ve tried.
To sum up, I want this series to satisfy two groups of non-comics readers. People who want to read a story from the beginning would be pleased by numbered books. People who want to just read a good story, order be damned, would be pleased with a self-contained story with a clear beginning, middle, and end. I don’t think these things are mutually exclusive.
@gobo Look at Ultimate Spider-Man. That was premised on being continuity-free. There’s so such animal. The book just developed it’s own continuity that wasn’t as "deep time" as Amazing Spider-Man. Any TV show, book series, movie franchise is going to develop its own continuity and hand-and-hand with that a preferred reading order. Now some series can work fine on their own as installments. But can you just pick, say…. The Two Towers and get the full story? If you haven’t seen Back to the Future does the second one make a lick of sense? Eventually a writer will want to follow up on a theme from this trade in 20 years. Or JMS will plant a seed in the Superman trade that pays off in 20 years. Not numbering them will ultimately make it far harder for people to bother reading the series than if they were. Do you know how many times I’ve had to help people at the B&N trades section find the "First story." Or complain that "How am I supposed to know which one of these comes first?" Far more than I’ve ever heard "I can read these in whatever order."
I lose interest really fast, so having a continuity would be great, because, without one there would be no reason for me to pick up any (sequel’s the wrong word, and not continuation, maybe constant reboots, but that sounds too boring… whatever). So, am I interested, of course, but will I be there for long if there is no single thread drawing me to the next book? No. If they wanted to drop continuity, why don’t they bring out some Elseworlds titles.
Oh, and about reaching a new audience, think of it like this. You hate SciFi, so you avoid it. Then, one day, you’re channel surfing and you pass SYFY. It claims to be new, better, more accessible but it still looks like SciFi. You don’t risk wasting time on something you are already filled with misconceptions over. You keep going and ignore it all together.
I think this is great news and am excited that DC is trying something new. This is definitely aimed at the "layman" who walks into their local book store (and for those who say people should go to their LCS, some places don’t have any, so book stores or online stores are their only venue). Is this DC’s attempt at an all-new All-Star line? Sure, probably. Should the books be numbered and keep an OGN to OGN continuity? I don’t know about that, especially with whom they are trying to reach with these. The reason I say that is because everyone says that people don’t get into comics because they find the continuity daunting. Fine, so you create something without it, like the Ultimate line. Only thing is, if it’s successful and is still going 10 years down the road, what do you have? That’s right, continuity, and at that point it’s as useful to bringing in new readers as the regular comics. These should be fairly self-contained and while certainly there can be small amounts of continuity, you should be able to read them in any order and have them make sense, otherwise a few years from now you’re just going to run into the continuity problem you wanted to avoid in the first place. Is that what these will be? I don’t know, from the sounds of it there will be some continuity. I really hope they don’t spend too much time on the origins of these characters. Everybody knows Superman and Batman’s origin. Tell it in a page like Morrison did in the first issue of All-Star and get on with it.
My big question is will these be HCs or paperback? I hope paperback, partly because I enjoy that format more, but also because it makes it cheaper and in today’s economy the cheaper something is the better. I also wonder if they will be standard comic size or digest size and how many pages they will contain? Anyway, those answers are sure to come, but I for one am excited!
This is awesome and I’m super excited.
That’s my in-depth analysis.
i’m waiting for the absolutes on these.
@PraxJarvin There are plenty of series with minimal continuity. Discworld, James Bond and Law and Order all keep jumping to mind, they all have elements that are referenced in each installment but at the same time you can read/watch any "volume" without having read/watched any previous installments.
It can (maybe not easily) be done without people needing to read pervious installments.
Also Ultimate Spider-Man wasn’t supposed to be continuity free, it was just supposed to start free of the existing continuity.
You can still tell people which comes first if they want, but it would be nice to be able to answer "It doesn’t matter"
If people want the serialized stories they exist, like many of us have been saying I think these should be as one and done as possible, not just another tightly serialized version with installments that come out less often.
Geoff Johns and Gary Frank on Batman is literally a dream come true for me. And ever since I heard JMS was going over to DC, Superman was the first character I thought he would be perfect for. But to be honest, having these stories taking place outside regular continuity does get me a little less excited, I would have rather of seen them take on monthlies. But I suppose maybe its for the best? I mean right now Supes is hanging out with Zod on New Krypton and who knows what the hell Morrison put Bruce.
Discworld?! oh dear
@gobo While the Bond movies are more or less continuity free, the books are fairly heavy in it, especially once you get past From Russia With Love. 😉 Also, as someone who was sold on the USM advertising back in ’02, I can tell you for certain the main selling point was that it would be continuity free and that stories would be told independent of the other books. In the end it comes down to what’s the more rewarding reading experience for a particular reader. I think you will find that most people, not just comic book/sci-fi fans, would rather start with a beginning and work their way through something than just jump into something. It’s very rare for a TV show’s ratings to grow over time. (Though it does happen.) My jock roommate refused to watch 24 out of order. My mother wouldn’t start watching MAD MEN until be watched the first two seasons. This mentality is especially true of our current DVD/HULU/DVR culture. You can watch it all, in proper order later on. You don’t need to miss an episode, you don’t have to wait for reruns to get in on the ground floor with a show. Again, it’s not that I’m saying a book free from continuity wouldn’t work. I just think when it comes down to it, people don’t just want to read random, conflicting vignettes of a character (I know I certainly don’t. As much as I enjoy All-Star Superman, I wish we could more of that guy than the current iteration). They want to pick a character/setting/plot and follow it through variations that build off one another. This would bespeak the success of film franchises and book series more than anything.
If any batman fan is not psyched for this, they lose
This is some pretty exciting stuff. Fingers crossed that it all works out. At least we don’t have to worry about late books if they’re using the OGN format.
The Frank art looks amazing.
CSI and NCIS are the most popular shows on television, far more popular than Lost. I’m just saying we already HAVE books that are continuity laden, because of that making these OGNs continuity laden as well will do absolutely nothing to encourage new readers.
It’s time to try something different, if it doesn’t work, oh well, but at least they will have tried something new.
If there goal is just to give Geoff Johns a new book to write and not try and get new readers then they can go right ahead and make everything tie tightly from one volume ot the next and we’ll just have more of the same stuff we have now.
Why have only one style when they can have both? This should be an expansion of choices, not just a change of format.
I’ve wanted an Ult. DC for 8 goddamn years. Bout f’n time. Really into the ongoing trade idea. Really super psyched
@gobo: A story with continuity is not automatically "continuity-laden." You keep using that term to apply to anything to that is inter-related. LAW & ORDER has continuity. So does CSI. So does, I assume, NCIS. All stories that exist beyond one installment have continuity. I think what you see so many people objecting to in your argument is your characterization.
I’m not completely against continuity, I just don’t want it so full of continuity that you can’t just pick up any individual book and read without worry.
Everything’s going to have "continuity." I mean, that’s a given. CSI still has continuity, but it’s also episodic. It’s not a long serialized drama with components spread across the series, a la LOST. Ultimate Spider-man wasn’t really marketed as "continuity-free" so much as "free of the baggage of 60 years." Of course it would build its own continuity.
So what gobo is suggesting isn’t a stream of Batman OGNs that reinvent Batman every time (unless I missed a post), but a series of OGNs that are designed not unlike BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES. Something episodic with a fresh but familiar take on an iconic character. Something that doesn’t have to worry about terminology of "post-Crisis" or "pre-Crisis" or "which Crisis was that now?"
Side note: Was in a comic shop this weekend, and my girlfriend was looking for something for her nephew. "He likes Spider-man," she said. So, I think, well, that’s easy enough. I walk over to the Spider-man trades, and there are elements from Todd McFarlane’s run, a smattering of JMS’s run… everything from different points in continuity. Where would one start? I would have gone with Ultimate Spide-man, but the store didn’t seem to have it.
But that’s something that Marvel and DC face with their most iconic characters: how do you sell Batman graphic novels when there are umpteen versions of Batman on the shelf? How does a person who saw the movie know where to start? I think offering an Earth-One is a cool idea, but they’ve got to do SOMETHING to push that one on newcomers. There’s a huge dilution of the Batman brand, and for the most part, I think the character can take it. But I’m not sure how it works from a sales and marketing standpoint. I suspect that’s something they’re thinking long and hard about as they release these new books.
And I skipped some posts so much of this had already been covered. Apologies. But still. While I don’t care if it’s "numbered" or not, I think I would favor an episodic approach to this world. Done-in-one graphic novels that have a"consistency" but not necessarily a strong continuity. I don’t think you should build something where OGN #1 pays off fully with OGN #32. Less "Y: The Last Man" and more BATMAN: TAS, as I mentioned.
That’s a fantastic costume design for Batman. It just looks right for some reason.
This is a new idea for the costume right? Or am I missing something?
As usual Dave says it better than me. But yeah, that’s exactly the kind of (limited) continuity I’m looking for.
JOHNS = Batman Rebirth
Alfred looks awesome. More capable to take on the crap that Bruce will most definitely bring.
I’ll be buying these! I haven’t read bats or sups in a while so I’m excited for them
ps. Some comic fans are reeally weird. Like they hate more than they love their hobby. Weird indeed!
I’m not sure if I like the new Alfred, but we’ll see how Johns writes it.
Well these books have been referred to as "Chapters" of a series. So in that way my mind goes to Morrison’s Batman for an example, where each of his stories have been a chapter of a larger ongoing story.
Sorry to bring up the debate again, but the notion that having a reading order of chapters as being a negative is a bit beyond me, Im sorry.
Continuity becomes a "problem" (and I use that term loosely, because one mans problem is another mans "fun") when you are required to read multiple books that you wouldn’t otherwise be interested in doing simply to understand a story you were already reading. Or, if a story you were reading gets unnecessarily interrupted in order to reflect other goings ons.
But to claim that a sequence of chapters is a "problem of continuity"???? Come now, a more accurate term would be Linear Story Telling.
With each chapter being 100+ pages (as per JMS comments, assumed to be referring to the first single volume), when the story is finished this is going to be an epic for the ages.
No one is claiming a series of chapters are a problem of continuity, I was just hoping it would be a series of (more or less) self contained stories as opposed to chapters.
The immense scope of story that this allows is very exciting though, you have to agree…right?
It would be like reading the build up to Blackest Night and BN itself, where we get all of GL: Secret Origin in one hit and then all of Rage of the Red Lanterns all at once etc etc.
This will bring a variation to the mode of story telling that we don’t usually get as well, in that there won’t be the obligatory two fight scene which end on a cliffhanger per 22 pages. Im hoping for a much more fluid story that unfolds at a much more natural pace.
Another point of all of this is that the marketing will be directed towards the collected edition, opposed to the single issues. While there is the "wait for the trade" culture out there, and the book store market, all the marketing and hype machine that the net generates is directed towards the release of the single issues, with the trade or hard cover release often getting little to no fan fare or attention due to the interest of that story had already passed. Due to this I think the potential of the book market is yet to be completely tapped due to the hype/marketing not having been in sync with the trade/HC book release before. We may see a new height being reached here, with all the stars lining up.
I’m probably going repeat what others have already said, but I’m excited for something that doesn’t make me buy it in monthly form. OGNs are okay in my book. My gut tells me to be cautiously optimistic for both of these projects. I’ll wait to deliver my judgement until after the books are actually released.
So what Earth is the traditional DC continuity? I always presumed it was Earth-1 (Seeing as how Power Girl, for example, came from Earth-2.)
I think it was "New Earth" after COIE finished, I’m not sure what it is now that the multiverse is back.
I thought "New Earth" was the name after IC and 52 of the main DCU.
bah, they’re just numbers, and bottom line is..its different. Thinking too much about it is pointless and painful 😉
Just to be clear, I think this could be fun. I’m not hating on the concept. Just.. reserved. I know JMS wants to write Superman. I’m not sure how I feel about Johns on Batman. I don’t think I’ve ever enjoyed it when Batman shows up in his work so… color me curious.
@Noto, gobo, Maestrox Yeah, after Infinite Crisis the "DCU" proper is located on "New Earth." Since Infinite Crisis they’ve never shown us Earth-1. Now we know why.
Very interested in the Batman title – like most.
Does Geoff Johns ever sleep, or are Slurpees and cereal the secret to infinite energy?!
So is it assumed that these two titles will be in the same continuity?
The titles Earth One makes me assume that they will be, but do we know for sure?
@DuneGig, brother has the Speed Force. Time is not an issue
This is gonna be awesome!!! Great move by DC.
First of all, there is very little that is new and/or original about this.
OGNs aren’t new. Top creators on classic characters isn’t a new approach. Continuity-free stories about these characters aren’t new. This is the first time top creators are working on continuity-free OGNs about the classic characters. That’s a lot of qualifiers and I’m not sure it adds up to anything new or original. So, how does this bring in new readers anymore than the current publishing line(s)?
Second, who knows of/is a person who became a comics reader through the Ultimate line?
Third, who knows about this new initiative? Well, for starters, we do. We comics readers who are already tuned into what is happening in the industry. Who are already locked in, continuity or not. If the outside of comics audience does not know about this, how are they going to be able to decide if they want to read these stories? It probably won’t stand out from the rest of the shelves and shelves of collected editons. The only way for that to happen will be a divine combination of marketing and design, not the nature of the interiors.
Nay, this is not to build the audience. The point of this is two-fold. It’s a gift to JMS (tangentially Davis) and Johns (tangentially Frank). They get to tell continuity-free OGNs about these characters.
And, it’s a gift to the already established comics audience. And many are excited about it, as evidenced by this thread alone.
As far as I can tell, DC or anybody involved has not stated that the point of this is to build the audience. It’s an exercise in the medium and the storytelling.
Why do you see a need for it to be "new and original" to be worth a damn?
It got announced less than 24 hours ago, and it hasnt even been solicited yet. So how can you speak of who knows or doesn’t know about it at this stage and relate it to who will end up buying it?
Comics have always struggled with the conundrum of making their material accessable to new readers without alienating the current audience. This seems like a very good attempt at doing both.
And if it doesnt bring in new readers…who cares? We, the current readers, get a bunch of new OGN’s of Bats and Supes! How cool is that! Its a gift to us as much as it is a gift to the creators. And what a gift it is to the creators….work on our main line of books and be rewarded with creative freedom on the biggest characters in the industry! cool.
I was making the point that it is BOTH a gift to creators and readers.
And I wasn’t saying it needed to be new/original to be worth a damn. I probably won’t buy these until much later down the road anyway because I’m not much of a DC reader and I would rather read the main continuity of these characters anyway. I just read a lot of talk in this thread about continuity and bringing in new readers and all that. You yourself spoke of getting into the book market. That, to me, implied pulling in new readers.
I’m saying that there needs to be a different approach if expanding the audience is the goal, which I don’t think it is, but nevertheless. I don’t see a terribly different approach here.
I feel that in producing it as an OGN results in the story structure of the overall product being drastically different from multiple single issues, which results in a far more satisfying read. that alone has me excited.
In talking about the book store market, while I see it as making the product more available to a wider audience, my interest in it lies in seeing how deep that market is in terms of financial profit for the good of the industry…yes, these two points can be one in the same, but im far less interested in making the content accessible for new readers than I am in capitalising in on the profitability of the industry.
I feel that the wider audience potential has only been scratched on the surface, and taking chances on products like this will allow the industry to see how deep that well is. And then it can be exploited for the good of the industry in long term.
The first phrase that popped into my head seeing this was "same shit,different smell".
Hopefully DC runs with that for their marketing campaign.Seriously though,why these two again?.Clearly because they sell but….YAWN!!! I don’t think its a co-incidence that there has been more excitement recently over books like Detective Comics and Batman & Robin than there has been over things like Superman: Secret Origins.
It’s more than "because they sell." That is true, but the fact that they sell is because Superman and Batman are two of the most iconic creations of modern time. They are modern-day myths, and their origins can always be told over and over again because there is a deep mass appeal for the tragedy and majesty of both characters.
Regardless of whether DC says this or not, the corporation will always be looking to these two characters to bring in new variations on the audience. That’s why we see Smallville or Batman: The Animated Series. Or Batman:Brave adn the Bold. Each of these is a slightly different spin on the archetypes, each appeals to different audiences, and each serves to show that Batman and Superman are incredibly robust properties that really appeal to us on a Joseph Campbell "Hero with a thousand Faces" kind of level. There’s really no reason NOT to get your biggest writers working on characters with a proven mass appeal and trying to put out yet another angle on these characters.
It’s not for the jaded comic book reader, but it WILL:
1 – get readers who follow Johns and JMS, two writers with substantial followings. This is the core that allows them to launch it and build buzz., then…
2 – the format servest the bookstore market well. The bookstore is the fast growing market, right? Well, this is primed for that. And for the future with releases in digital. And it will work well because
…
3 – the stories will be accessible to new readers. Old readers can recommend it as a good starting point. Bookstores can offer it as a great place to start.
So, I definitely see why DC would launch this. I hope it goes well. Iconic characters with top-notch writers? Seems like a no-brainer to me. 😉
You know how you can tell Earth-1 Alfred is evil? The gotee.
@daccampo: Yup, no-brainer pretty much sums it up.You have a point though,its not aimed at people like me.
I like that we’re talking OGNs here. It’s a great attempt to get into bookstores with no continuity baggage and thicker, more complete stories. I’m in.
Argh.. this is all so confusing! I can’t live like this! Why DC, why did you break my life’s continuity! None of this fits into my current life! I can’t handle so much change in this lifetime! I’m never getting out of my basement again!
PS: manga sucks and working out also sucks. So does taking a shower while Johns signs at comicon.
I kid my friends, I kid! I’m new to being a comic
(x2 post)
I kid my friends, I kid! I’m new to being a comic book fan and well, I’m still learning bout the idiosincrecies of the general fandom. It’s quite amusing at times.
I did learn to turn off my spell checker thou! I’m I in the club already? LOL
The more comics the merrier! Also, I will buy these, not steal them. JMS has gotta eat you know. Also, my apologies for acting like a so called "troll". But I also deserve to be heard! tee hee.
This thread needs to be collected into a series of unnumbered volumes and placed in the historical fiction section of a local Borders.
@stuclach: then we’ll get a fan favourite poster to rewrite it in a few years time ,re-release it and cha-ching.
@Fugmo – With a new cover and some "making of" features tucked in the back.
Personally, I really don’t care whether or not these books will have continuity or not. I will buy them either way and it doesn’t bother me to follow along with an overarching narrative or just read a bunch of self-contained stories. I don’t really understand this obsessive need for an ongoing continuity though, who cares if the story "mattered" as long as it was good? But i do agree with Gobo that it would be nice to at least have another option for people out there where there is no huge ongoing narrative. From reading the comments here, it seems the community is split (i’d say 70-30) for and against continuity. What this tells me is that there is at least an audience for a book that doesn’t rely on an ongoing narrative. For that 70 percent looking for continuity in these new books, guess what? there are hundreds of books that are drowning in years and years of continuity, go read those. what about that 30 percent who doesn’t want it? shouldn’t they have an option. This is where I think Gobo is right, DC should try it, why not? there seems to be an audience for it.
I’m wondering if this move is as a result of closer integration with DC Entertainment. If DC is looking at new avenues (OGNs) and different continuity, maybe it’s as a result of pressure (not the best word, but the only one I can think of in this instance) from DC Entertainment to take a new approach with thier characters to reach a wider audience (average bookstore customer). If that’s the case, then i applaud them, i think it’s a great approach, this is the direction comics should be going.
Finally, i really hope that DC plans some sort of marketing campaign for these books outside of your traditional comics advertising. That’s always been really tricky for comics but if they really do want to reach a wider audience i think it would be really beneficial. Some pop-up displays in a bookstore for example, magazine advertising, subway/bus ads (i think TV wouldn’t be the right direction, you don’t see books ads on tv) basically follow the approach of a major prose book release.
whatever approach DC will take, i think this is an exciting step forward for the industry in general and I hope Marvel follows suit.
NOW BRING ON THE DIGITAL COMICS!!
TheMaestroX has a good point I haven’t seen touched on much yet. Telling a story in multi-issue installments creates certain format constraints. I don’t think they’re good or bad, they just inevitably have an effect on the pacing of the story and to some extent on the way the story develops. And the way comics work today, this is all interrelated with marketing. I know there are times when I’ve seen a last-act "twist" in a comic book arc that makes very little sense and seems to have been influenced by the desire to have (a) a cool last-page reveal in a particular issue and (b) to provide cool teaser images for marketing.
Superhero stories written for OGN have the potential to be different from stories told in issues, the way movies are different from TV. This isn’t inherently a good thing or a bad thing, but it will give writers a chance to play with a different set of possibilities.
Yes! I love orginal Graphic novel stories.
I’m very interested…as long as Superman doesn’t get spikes in his wrists.
First and foremost, I’m stoked to the gills to read Geoff Johns writing Batman. But what I’m really excited for is DC embracing the OGN format. Hopefully more companies will follow suit. The sooner comics move to a trade based system, the better.
@Abirdseyeview – I started reading comics with the Ultimate line, as did a few of my friends who currently read weeklies. It’s a gateway drug. That shit works.
@ohcaroline – i’m excited to see them free of those constraints. Think of the amazing last page/sequence of Vaughan’s The Escapist or any of the sequences in Blankets. Those weren’t tied down by 16 or 22 pages, though I’d argue certain writers have mastered that page count (Johns on 22 and Gillen for 16)
To clarify, I’m just talking about a different set of possibilities. Personally, I have no desire to see monthly storytelling go away.
So is that Shane Davis art on that Superman image or not? Sorry the wave of comments hear made me lose track of that answer. lol
But great discussion here as always.
The Batman book is totally eclipsing the superman one. And that image is not helping it very much.
@TNC – yes, that’s Shane Davis doing a more painted approach. There are some Clark Kent sketches in an interview with him over at comicbookresources.com. I’d recommend checking it out.
@daccampo: Huh……Maybe he shouldn’t do a painted look from now on. lol
Looks nothing like his previous work and it kinda is fugly looking.
Oh sweet baby jesus. This looks awesome.
This is awesome news. Very very very exciting. This is what I wanted All Star Batman to be – an Ultimate (sort of) version of the DCU.
Does anybody else remember the issuse of WIZARD Magazine where the WIZARD staff did a Ultimate style of DC Comics where they did a 21st take on DC’s Icon’s like Green Lantern,Superman,The Flash,The Batman,Superman,Aquaman,Martian Manhunter,Wonder Woman, and The Justice League Of America with Gary Frank or somebody similar doing the art for these one page storyline ideas! Like Wally West ending up being The Black Flash against Barry Allen’s Flash The other story line idea’s escape me at the moment!
@Anson17- awesome, I was really more curious than anything else.
@mikegraham6- The point about marketing is kinda what I was getting at. there’s only one way to get new readers and that’s to put the physical book in front of more people and in more people’s hands. Continuity and name creators is not the issue.
Can’t wait! It’s gonna be great seeing Geoff Johns on Batman. Not sure about Superman but will probably pick it up too.
For Geoff John’s to be at the forefront of all these great titles and events, and for him to produce the quality of work he does, the volume of work he does and the constant originality of the work he does… it means only one thing.
He has procured himself a TARDIS! And he knows this will be a great success!
KUDOS to that man. KUDOS.